中国比美国更民主吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：klqw-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



Is China more democratic than the USA?

中国比美国更民主吗？


-------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：BXHin1995------------

Mervyn Locke Enlightened laowai/Decade-long China resident/Permanent China bull
Answered Mar 19 R26; Upvoted by Xinchun Li lives in China
Having spent the better part of my life in Europe and the last 10 years in China I’ve actually tilted in favor of the Chinese system. Why? Because in China the government is better at meeting people’s needs in terms of improving their quality of life. True corruption has been rampant even though to a lesser extent today but politicians all over the world do their best to cling on to power and keep whatever superior benefits they may have so in that case the difference is not that great from a philosophical standpoint.

Mervyn Locke/开明的老外/长期在中国居住/看好中国走势
我在欧洲生活了大半辈子，过去十年我都生活在中国，实际上我倾向于中国体制。为什么？因为在中国，政府能更好地满足人民提高生活品质的需求。腐败确实很猖獗，但现在形势已有所好转。而且全世界的政客都会贪恋权力，巧取豪夺。从这一点来说，理智的观点是中外的区别并没有那么大。

The problem with so called “Western democracy” is that it only gives politicians very short-term incentives to stay in power and winning the next election with little attention to what should be done in between also buying votes with money and through lies (they say something before election and then they deliver something totally different post-election). Also forming coalitions with minority parties that get a disproportionate amount power to carry out crazy policies. Not to mention the extremely slow decision making process and political pie throwing causing stalemates.

所谓的“西式民主”存在的问题是任期很短，政客的注意力都在连任上，而不是有所作为，还存在贿赂选票和政治谎言的问题(选举后的作为和选举承诺南辕北辙)，大党派与少数派形成同盟后可以凭借绝对数量优势强行推动疯狂的政策。更不要说慢如蜗牛的决策过程，以及相互攻讦导致的政治僵局了。

-------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：高辛琅华------------

And most important of all tell me what’s the long-term vision of a country like say Belgium or Denmark? Right. No one knows. In China there’s always a main headline like “inclusive growth” “Made in China 2025” and so on and so forth that unites and sets the direction as a whole. US is starting to come to grips with this with “Make America Great” again EU has no clue where it’s going.

最重要的，谁能告诉我像比利时丹麦这些国家的长期目标是什么？没人知道。而中国永远有长期规划，比如“包容性增长”、“2025中国制造”等等，为国家设立统一目标。美国也开始搞“让美国伟大”，至于欧盟，依然是无头苍蝇。

To sum up: Democracy for me means serving the people and considering the economic growth and increased political power of China there’s little doubt who has the superior governance system. Those that do not see this will wake up one day and ask themselves “how could this happen”?

总结一下：对我来说，民主意味着服务人民，考虑到中国的经济增长和日益增加的政治影响力。谁的制度更好不言而喻。没有意识到这一点的人终有一天会惊醒并自问：这一切究竟是怎么发生的？

 -------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：BXHin1995------------

Michel McGill Born lived and worked in China.
Answered Apr 4
Yes. China is more democratic than the USA.
From Michel McGill's answer to "Julie Bishop has warned China it can only reach its full economic potential if it further embraces democracy." Is she right?
Chinese revolution is democratic revolution. Chinese people have fought for democracy ever since 1840. They fought and failed until 1923 Dr. Sun Yat-sen realized that Democracy was impossible when Western Powers dominate the politics and economy of China. So the first step toward democracy is to drive Western Powers out of China.
China successes to drive Western Powers out of China at 1949 however Western Powers would not give up so easily. They don’t recognize Mainland China as legitimate government. They recognize Taiwan as legitimate Chinese government. War is always a danger for China ever since 1949. Western try to dominate China again by military pressure (gunboat diplomacy) in the name of “democracy”.

Michel McGill/出生在中国，曾在中国工作生活
是的，中国比美国更加民主。
我曾回答过另一个问题“毕晓普警告中国，只有拥抱民主才能发挥全部经济潜力。”她是对的吗？
中国的革命是民主革命，中国人民1840年以来就为民主而斗争。他们的斗争失败了，直到1923年孙中山先生意识到，只要西方控制着中国的政治经济，民主就是不可能的。所以实现民主的第一步就是把西方势力赶出中国。
中国在1949年成功赶走西方势力，然而它们并不轻易放弃，它们不承认中国大陆的合法政府地位，而把台湾视作合法政府。建国以来中国始终受着战争威胁。西方一直图谋打着民主的旗号，用炮舰外交来控制中国。

 -------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：BXHin1995------------

From the experience of last 174 years Chinese people know that the first task of fighting for democracy is the get rid off Western interfering. Chinese can not have democracy by letting Western Powers meddling Chinese affairs. Handing Chinese fate to the hand of Western Power is not democracy. Democracy means Chinese people determine Chinese affair not Western powers determine Chinese affairs. When Westerner said they want China to be democracy Chinese know that’s fake statement. Britain ruled Hong Kong for 150 years without a single governor was elected. Hong Kong people was treated as second class citizen forbidden to take any chief position of government offices.
Western powers conquered Beijing on 1900 and did not install a democratic system for China. Chinese cannot got democracy by letting Western powers to determine their fate. Western powers is not for Chinese democracy. They are for their national interest in China at expense of Chinese people.

174年的抗争史告诉中国人民，争取民主的第一步，是先消灭西方干涉，否则民主是不现实的。把中国人的命运交给西方势力(意思是按西方那一套)不叫民主。中国人自主决定命运才叫民主，当西方说他们希望中国民主化时，中国人知道他们醉翁之意不在酒。英国统治香港150年间没有一任总督是选出来的。香港人被视作二等公民，被禁止担任任何重要政府职位。
西方势力在1900年攻陷了北京，但并没有改造民主体系。他们并不真的关心中国人民的民主权利，只是希望牺牲中国利益以获取自己国家利益罢了。

-------------译者：卡思-审核者：baolei9788------------

After Arab spring and Iraq occupation how can still have people believe America is spending huge amount military resources and NGO funding altruistically for the democracy of China? Did any candidate for president campaign ever ask voters to spend tax dollars for Chinese democracy?

在发生了阿拉伯之春和占领伊拉克事件之后，怎么还会有人相信美国花费的大量军事资源和非政府组织无私提供的资金是为了中国民主呢？你见过有哪个总统竞选的候选人要选民为中国民主纳税花钱的吗？

Chines is fighting for democracy by resisting Western interfering. Because China is a better democratic country then western powers Chinese industrialization takes short time without resort to colonization slave trade opium trade and gunboat diplomacy.

中国人正在通过抵制西方的干涉来争取民主。因为比起西方大国中国是一个更美好的民主国家，中国的工业化在短时间内完成，且没有采取殖民奴隶贸易、鸦片贸易和炮舰外交。

One of the characters distinguish Chinese democracy from Western democracy is the multiple parties scheme. Western democracy is based on competition among parties while Chinese democracy is based on coalition of all parties.

中国民主与西方民主的区别是多党制。西方民主是以多党竞争为基础，而中国民主则是建立在政党联盟的基础上。

-------------译者：卡思-审核者：珂求一生------------

There are many parties in China. Every parties in China is constantly evolved in government policy making thought National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC). The representatives come from all democratic parties and individuals without affiliation to any party.

在中国有许多党派。中国的每一个党派在政府方针决策的中国人民政治协商会议全国委员会（全国政协）中不断发展。代表们来自各民主党派和代表个人，而不属于任何政党。

There were two strong parties during Anti-Fascist-Japanese-Invasion-War: KMT and CCP. When Anti-Japanese War was in the end game Mao published his article ON COALITION GOVERNMENT， detailed the policy of building a unified China of Independence Freedom Democracy and Prosperity. Majority of parties in China supported CCP’s idea of coalition government except KMT. KMT wanted to exclude all other parties and had KMT the only party to rule China. Chiang assassinated a few democratic activists in the era of White Terror. After Japan surrendered on 1945 KMT launched civil war and was defeated.

反法西斯日本侵华战争中有两个强大的政党：国-民党和土共。抗日战争结束时，毛发表了《论联合政府》的文章，详细列出了建立独立、自由、民主和繁荣的一个统一中国的政策。当时中国大多数政党支持土共的思想，除了国-民党。国-民党想排除所有其他党派让自己统治中国成为唯一的执政党。蒋在白色恐怖时期暗杀了一些民主活动家。日本在1945年投降后国-民党发动了内战然后被击败。

-------------译者：卡思-审核者：BXHin1995------------

New China was established on 1949 with political system structured largely according to the document of ON COALITION GOVERNMENT.

新中国成立于1949年，其政治制度主要根据“论联合政府”报告文件。

Chinese democracy is therefore different from Western democracy. Western democracy is based on competition among multiple parties while Chinese democracy is based on coalition among multiple parties. A coalition need a leader and all parties supported CCP as the leader due to the leadership CCP played in Anti-Japanese War. CCP leadership is therefore written into the Constitution. A Anti-Japanese invasion song become the national anthem. The constitution was the result of political consultation by many parties together. Chinese political parties were therefore not compete with each other for power but cooperated together focusing on how to build a new China. Each Chinese parties are worried not about the interest of special groups but emphasize on how to build a new China they wanted for a hundred years.

因此，中国的民主与西方民主不同。西方民主是建立在多党竞争的基础上，而中国民主则是以多党联合为主。由于中共在抗日战争中的领导地位，联盟需要一个领导人，各方都支持中共作为领导。中共领导因此被写入“宪法”。抗日歌曲成为国歌。宪法是多方面政治协商的结果。因此，中国政党不是相互竞争，而是合作关注如何建设新中国。每一个中国政党都不关心特殊群体的利益问题，而是着重于如何建设一个他们百年来梦寐以求的新中国。

-------------译者：baolei9788-审核者：高辛琅华------------

For hundred years the fundamental conflict that hindered China from modernizing had not been conflict among different groups of Chinese people but between Chinese people and western powers. It is the international pressure shaped the structure of Chinese political system. That’s the most effective political system to resist outside threat to China. When outside threat is diminished the system will obsolete. Before 2008 China already show signs of evolving toward western political system. Then there come US re-balance of Asia-Pacific and suddenly the system since 1949 reinforced.

数百年来，阻碍中国现代化的不是中国的民族内部的冲突，而是中国人民和西方列强之间的冲突。这是国际上的压力促成的中国政治体制，也是最有效的抵抗未来威胁的政治体制。当外在的威胁减小了，那么这套体制也会自然被废弃。早在2008年以前中国就已经有向着西方政治体制改进的迹象，紧接着就来了美国的重返亚太计划，导致原先的政治体系反而加固了。
 
Competing among Chinese makes no sense when they facing common enemy such as Japanese invasion. Competing politics makes no sense when China is surrounded by world military forces and nuclear countries. Coalition politics is therefore a historical choice and a unavoidable reality.

当中国有着共同的敌人，如日本鬼子侵略，民族内部之间的矛盾就不那么重要了，当中国被世界上的军队和有核国家包围，政治斗争也就不那么说的通了。因此，联合政治就成了历史的选择和不可避免的现实。

 -------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：高辛琅华------------

Chinese Congress has inclusive representation. Each minority ethnic groups have their representatives in Congress regardless how few a population they have and how weak their economy. Congress representatives also including all walks of groups and professions. Chinese people don’t need politicians to represent them. Every groups is allocated seats in congress.
Anti-Japanese war will not be successful without the coalition of different groups of the society in China. CCP was able to unit all walks of Chinese people in fighting Japanese invasion and formed the effective political operation in Anti- Japanese-Democratic-Bases. The Chinese democratic system originated from Anti-Japanese War that need political coalition to form United Anti-Japanese National Front. Coalition is there for the intrinsic character of Chinese democratic political system. The decision making process therefor bares the character of political consultation.
Democracy means the government enforce people’s will. People want their live improved and the government fulfills it. That’s democracy. Democracy is a way to have people’s will prevail. Chinese government is more capable to function like that than American’s therefore China is more democratic than the USA.

中国人大具有广泛的代表性。每个少数民族都有他们的代表席，不管人再少，经济再弱。人大代表同样包括各式团体和职业。中国人民不需要政治家去代表他们，各个团体都分配有席位。
没有全社会的共同努力，抗日战争不会成功。中共能够团结各族各群体抗击日本侵略，并且组建了有效的“中国民主同盟”。中国民主体制的萌芽产生于抗日战争时期的政治同盟需求。联合是中国民主体系的内在品质，最终形成了政治协商体制。
民主意味着政府体现人民意志。人民想改善生活，政府也能满足要求，这就是民主。民主就是人民意志取胜，中国政府比美国政府更能实现这一功能，所以，中国比美国更民主。

 -------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：BXHin1995------------

Randall Burns I studied Economics at the University of Chicago(AB 1981). Write at VDARE.com
Answered Apr 15 R26; Upvoted by Xinchun Li
The Chinese government has higher approval ratings than the US government does.
The Communist Party in recent decades has operated as a republican institution. The closest thing the US has to the CPC may be the legal profession and some related occupations where there is a real sextive criteria for joining that is fairly open. The problem there is that the US legal profession has gradually become more oligarchic because it takes a lot of money to go to an ABA accredited law school(in the old days someone could study law with an attorney and not wind up with crippling student loans).
 
Randall Burns /1981年开始在芝加哥大学学习经济学，VDARE网站作者
中国政府比美国政府有更高的支持率。
过去几十年共产党政权都是共和国制度。美国和中国最相近的可能是法律相关职业了，入行标准公平开放(意思是不需要背景)。现在有个问题，美国的法律职业越来越寡头化了，因为读一所美国律师协会承认的学校要花一笔天文数字(以前可以跟着老律师学习从而避免沉重的学生贷款)。

 -------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：BXHin1995------------

China’s democratic institutions are still pretty weak. China has been improving in that sense. Independent public opinion polls are now allowed and public officials are expected to pay attention to them. The CPC seems to be sincerely attempting to be responsive and competent(there is however a very real problem with corruption). The US election process has been degenerating towards plutocracy due to money in politics centralized media control and the obsolete First past the post election system with its inevitable gerrymandering. Still I think US democracy is stronger than Chinese democracy.

中国的民主制度依然很羸弱，但正在逐步改善。中国现在允许独立的民意调查，并要求公职人员注重民意。中共看起来确实在努力做到认真负责能干(虽然腐败是一个非常现实的问题)。而美国的选举制度正在堕落为金钱政治，由于政治献金、集权式媒体控制、还有必然导致弄虚作假的“赢者通吃”制度(简单多数选举制)。然而，我觉得美国民主制度比中国更加强大。

 -------------译者：黎明晖烬-审核者：高辛琅华------------

China has more limited civil liberties than the US. Some of that is related to the needs of maintaining order in a country whose core area is as large and densely populated as China’s. China’s republican institutions are strong and in at least some respects may be stronger than those of the USA. I think it would however be inaccurate to say China is more democratic than the US.

I’m trying here to establish an accurate taxonomy so we can all understand each other and find some real common ground.

中国相比美国公民权利自由受更多限制，部分原因是像中国这样地广人多的国家，维持稳定所必须的。中国的共和制是稳固的，起码从某些方面来说比美国稳固。但我认为因此说中国比美国更民主是不准确的。
我试图设立一个明确的分类，这样我们就能更好地互相理解、求同存异。