印度和中国必须搁置相互猜疑，成为世界领导者 [美国媒体]

India and China Must Set Aside Mistrust to Emerge as World Leaders

印度和中国必须搁置相互猜疑，成为世界领导者



dragonite1989 [] 14
Indians are well-versed in the Anglo-Saxon tactic of "Divide & Conquer" of Indian princely states, which is how the British empire conquered the entirety of Indian subcontinent.
The territorial dispute between India and China are a vestige of British Raj imperialism when both India and China were colonized or semi-colonized by European powers, too weak to unilaterally demarcate without foreign interference.
Therefore, it's highly unlikely India will enlist as a formal anti-China containment alliance against China, precisely because it knows America will use India as a front-line guineapig to secure US hegemony by pitting Asian giants against each other.
That is not to say India won't oppose Chinese hegemony, they will. They will do whatever their interest for a multi-polar world, which makes India align more with China, than it does with US, since US is seeking to preserve hegemony, while China is seeking a multi-polar world which India is a powerhouse too.

印度人精通盎格鲁-撒克逊的“分而治之”策略，大英帝国当年就是用此策略征服了整个印度次大陆。
中印之间的领土争端是英帝国主义统治印度所遗留下来的历史问题，当时印度和中国都被欧洲列强殖民化或半殖民化，它们太过弱小，无法在没有外国干涉的情况下单方面划界。

因此，印度不太可能寻求与他国结成针对中国的正式反华遏制同盟，因为它知道，美国将利用印度作为第一线的炮灰，通过让亚洲大国相互竞争，来确保美国的霸权。
这并不是说印度不会反对中国的霸权，他们会的。他们将为一个多极世界做任何自己感兴趣的事，这使得印度更多地与中国站在一起，而不是美国，因为美国正在寻求维护霸权，而中国正在寻求一个印度在其中也是一个强国的多极世界。

[–]TruismStrike [] 13
Problem with your analysis is that it does not properly take into account China's true ambition to supplant the US/West in general as the leader of the world/hegemon. Nor the fact China does look down on India, as it does most of the world. It is a fact for most of its 5,000 year history China has looked down on all other peoples and this attitude has not really changed in reality and they want to return to the world view they had as late as 1800 AD. It has really only been the last 200 years this view of themselves was challenged. They see the world not being centered around them as just a tiny blip in history and that will return to the 'natural' order of China at the top and center of the world.
In reality/realpolitik terms a US hegemony is preferable to a Chinese one for India. For economic as well as strategic seasons. Economically china just produces everything itself and exports which doesn't help other develop the way US business does. Hell, china itself was half built by US corporations almost. And for India a democratic Hegemony on the other side of the world is much better than dictator one it borders like China.
Also this stuff about Britain is really irrelevant. The border issue is a serious issue for India because it is strategically placed/pushed by the Chinese as a way that they could cut India's corridor to it's eastern territories. Irrelevant of where it originated the Indians have an extreme interest in pushing back lest China occupies the ideal position to strategically neuter them on the ground in the case on any conflict; which would put them in an inferior role to China and they would never accept while the Chinese are determined to secure. If they weren't determined to secure it they would back off the border issues because it is clearly a major strategic concern on the Indian side. Chinese aggressive/superiority intent towards India is proven by their aggressive push for what the Chinese is very remote territory at the far edge of their empire while for India it is extremely strategically important.
Any failure of the West or India to help each other in the event of conflict with China would just play into China's version of divide and conquer.

你的分析存在的问题是，它没有恰当地考虑到中国取代美国/西方成为世界/霸权的真正雄心。中国也像它看不起世界上大多数民族那样看不起印度。在中国5000年历史的大部分时间里，中国都看不起其他国家的人民，这种态度在现实中并没有真正改变，他们希望重回到他们在公元1800年的世界观。这种对自身定位的看法只是在过去的200年里才受到了挑战。他们认为，这段世界没有围绕着他们转的时期，只是历史上的一个小插曲，并且世界将回归中国处在世界顶端和中心的“自然”秩序。

在现实/现实政治中，美国霸权比中国霸权更适合印度。无论是在经济上还是在战略上。从经济上讲，中国只是生产一切产品，然后出口产品，这种模式无法像美国的商业那样帮助其他国家发展。见鬼，中国本身几乎有一半是由美国公司建造的。对印度来说，世界另一边的民主霸权要比与之接壤的毒菜霸权，比如中国，要好得多。



[–]dragonite1989 [] 13
Problem with your analysis is that it does not properly take into account China's true ambition to supplant the US/West in general as the leader of the world/hegemon.
These are baseless and groundless speculation with absolutely no evidence to back them up. It's hyped up "China threat theory" gone wild.
"China will never seek hegemony or engage in expansion "no matter what stage of development it reaches. China will never pursue development at the expense of others' interests and China's development does not pose a threat to any other country"
- Xi Jinping in 2017
"We Chinese love peace. No matter how much stronger it may become, China will never seek hegemony or expansion. It will never inflict its past suffering on any other nation,"
- Xi Jinping in 2015
"China does not accept the logic that a strong country is bound to become hegemonic, and neither hegemony nor militarism is in the Chinese DNA,"
- Xi Jinping in 2014
"China will never seek hegemony or expansionism and China's development will never be a challenge or a threat to any other country or the world at large"
- Xi Jinping in 2012
Aside from the Western armchair pundits from hype up the "China threat theory", there is no serious analyst or geopolitician that seriously believes China seeks to become Global Hegemony. The Chinese absolutely abhor intervention into other nation's internal affairs and this has been a very consistent policy. China does not have any expansive overseas military bases like the US, nor does China seek overseas wars in Middle East for resources like US.
Nor the fact China does look down on India, as it does most of the world. It is a fact for most of its 5,000 year history China has looked down on all other peoples and this attitude has not really changed in reality and they want to return to the world view they had as late as 1800 AD. It has really only been the last 200 years this view of themselves was challenged. They see the world not being centered around them as just a tiny blip in history and that will return to the 'natural' order of China at the top and center of the world.
The tributary system is completely different from global hegemony. Under the tributary system, China did not employ overseas military bases, like US has over 800 military bases abroad. China did not have constant wars abroad to secure resources like US does. The tributary system was very peaceful and is completely different than European or American imperialism.
In reality/realpolitik terms a US hegemony is preferable to a Chinese one for India.
False dilemma. India is given four (4) choices:
India hegemony only
Multi-polarity free of any hegemony (US or China)
US hegemony only
China hegemony only
If given the choice, India would choose #1, then #2. Whether India chooses #1 or #4 as a preference is irrelevant, since India doesn't want ANY hegemony (#2), it wants the world to be equal with no single dominant power (American or Chinese).
You presented a false dilemma, since India doesn't have to choose between Two Hegemonies because there is a Third Choice, which is No Hegemony at all.
Economically china just produces everything itself and exports which doesn't help other develop the way US business does. Hell, china itself was half built by US corporations almost.
Except 75% of all Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) into China from 1975 until 2016 came from CHINESE compatriots in Hong Kong and remaining significantly from Taiwan.
Stop spreading falsehoods, the total US foreign direct investments (FDI) into China over that period was less than 5% maximum, trailing significantly the Hong Kong Chinese investment (75%) and Taiwanese investment.
You clearly are making stuff up by saying "China was half-built by US corporations" which is not rooted in fact or reality.
Also this stuff about Britain is really irrelevant. The border issue is a serious issue for India because it is strategically placed/pushed by the Chinese as a way that they could cut India's corridor to it's eastern territories.
It's absolutely relevant, since the British were the ones who intentionally partitioned British Raj into Two States (Pakistan and India) based on religious grounds so that India can never be a true world power. It left the territorial disputes with China (Arunchal Pradesh/Aksai Chin) in order to cause animosity between India and China. The British legacy is extremely important because it was intentionally left to weaken India, because during the Mughal period, there was harmony between Hindus/Muslims, but British reinforced and entrenched the Caste system and religious divisions in order to Divide and Conquer India.
The British Legacy is extremely important, it's the reason why China-India dispute territory today and why Pakistan and India hate each other.
Any failure of the West or India to help each other in the event of conflict with China would just play into China's version of divide and conquer.
Ironic since Western powers (esp. Anglo-Saxons) were the ones who conquered entirety of India and semi-colonized China. Now they are accusing China of "divide & conquer" when they are threatening Western hegemony.
India doesn't want ANY hegemony (Western or Chinese), so if it had to choose, they would choose no hegemony. India doesn't pick sides, and that's why India is friends to all powers, and won't ally with West against China.

“你的分析存在的问题是，它没有恰当地考虑到中国取代美国/西方成为世界/霸权的真正雄心”
这些都是毫无基础、毫无根据的猜测，绝对没有证据支持它们。这种分析大肆炒作“中国威胁论”。
“无论发展到什么阶段，‘中国永远不称霸，永远不搞扩张’。中国的发展不会以牺牲别国利益为代价，中国的发展不会对任何国家构成威胁。”

——2017年586
“我们中国人爱和平。无论中国变得多么强大，中国都不会寻求霸权或扩张。它永远不会把它过去遭受的苦难强加给任何其他国家。
——2015年586
“中国不接受国强必霸的逻辑，中国的基因里既没有霸权，也没有军国主义。”

——2014年586
“中国永远不称霸，永远不搞扩张，中国的发展永远不会对任何国家和世界构成挑战和威胁。”
——2012年586
除了西方那些大肆宣扬“中国威胁论”的纸上谈兵的专家之外，没有哪个严肃的分析人士或地缘政治学家会严肃地认为中国在寻求成为全球霸权。中国坚决反对干涉别国内政，这是一项一贯的政策。中国不像美国那样拥有某些庞大的海外军事基地，也不像美国那样为获取资源而在中东寻求发动海外战争。

“中国也像它看不起世界上大多数国家那样看不起印度。在中国5000年历史的大部分时间里，中国都看不起其他国家的人民，这种态度在现实中并没有真正改变，他们希望重回到他们在公元1800年的世界观。这种对自身定位的看法只是在过去的200年里才受到了挑战。他们认为，这段世界没有围绕着他们转的时期，只是历史上的一个小插曲，并且世界将回归中国处在世界顶端和中心的‘自然’秩序”
朝贡制度与全球霸权完全不同。在朝贡制度下，中国没有海外军事基地，美国在海外有800多个军事基地。中国并没有像美国一样为了获取资源而不断地在国外打仗。朝贡制度非常和平，与欧美帝国主义完全不同。

“在现实/现实政治中，美国霸权比中国霸权更适合印度”
虚伪的两难困境。印度有四种选择：
1、印度独大霸权
2、无霸权（美国或中国）的多极化
3、美国独大霸权
4、中国独大霸权

如果有选择，印度将选择1，然后是1。无论印度选择1还是4，都是无关紧要的，因为印度不希望出现任何霸权（2），它希望世界平等，没有单一的主导力量（美国或中国）。
你提出了一个错误的两难困境，因为印度不需要在两个霸权国家之间做出选择，因为有第三种选择，那就是根本没有霸权。

“从经济上讲，中国只是生产一切产品，然后出口产品，这种模式无法像美国的商业那样帮助其他国家发展。见鬼，中国本身几乎有一半是由美国公司建造的”
除了1975年至2016年，中国获得的外部直接投资中，有 75%来自香港的中国同胞外，还有很大一部分来自台湾。
不要造谣了，在此期间，美国对华直接投资总额最多不超过5%，远远落后于香港（75%）和台湾对中国大陆的投资。

你显然是在编造，说“中国本身有一半是由美国公司建造的”，这根本不是事实或现实。
“而且这些关于英国的东西真得是无关紧要的。边境问题对印度来说是一个严重的问题，因为中国在战略上把它作为切断印度通往东部领土通道的途径”
这绝对是有意义的，因为英国人故意出于宗教原因，把英治印度分为两个国家（巴基斯坦和印度），这样印度就永远不可能成为真正的世界强国了。

它留下了与中国的领土争端（阿鲁恰尔邦/阿克赛钦），以引起印度和中国之间的敌意。英国的遗害极其严重，因为它是被故意留下以削弱印度的，因为在莫卧儿时期，印度教徒和穆斯林之间和谐相处，但英国人巩固并强化了种姓制度和宗教分歧，以分裂和征服印度。
英国的政治遗产极其重要，这也是为什么今天的中印存在领土争端，以及为什么巴基斯坦和印度彼此憎恨的原因。

[–]akatsukix [] 9
A couple of rebuttals first:
Why would anyone take seriously what Xi says? China has embarked on a huge soft power play designed to foster dependency.
And I can point to many policy wonks and analysts who see China as the future hegemon. A quick google search shows plenty of serious people considering it very rationally
It might not be quite the kowtowing of the old days, but there is no question China (or any country) would prefer to be the sole hyperpower if possible.
Given their native internal distrust of the non-Han. I can’t imagine any partnership of equals between China and India. Indians have typically been cheap imported labor force across China and the Middle East and those reputations linger. It would require massive social engineering and propaganda.
As for the British legacy. There is no fix that will arise over revisiting it. They left a mess and looking at it isn’t all that valuable as deciding what should be done. India is currently on a pro-Hindu nationalist streak and politicians have a bad guy in Muslims to distract the populace. So beyond that - how does that inform anyone in a path forward?
Now parts where I agree or think to discuss.
India is definitely playing the field to keep some balance. Right now that involves the Russians, the Chinese and the US. They haven’t taken any leadership positions due to the generally fractious nature of internal politics and poverty consuming most of their attention.
Automation will depress both countries ability to leverage their massive populations, shifting the balance to more disadvantage than advantage. India will be hit harder by this presumably.
Realistically one can see:
(1) bipolar US, China. Perhaps another player emerges as a third part.
(2) US hegemony continues
(3) Nonpolarity will be an unstable situation so I suspect that can’t be a real peaceable outcome
Nobody thinks that India will be the sole winner. So the best they can do is tie themselves up and ride coattails. When you see Indians talking up Indian hegemony, it is bluster as they have taken exactly zero steps to that world.

先来几个反驳：
为什么有人会认真对待586的讲话？中国已经开始了一场旨在培养依赖性的巨大软实力游戏。
我可以指出，许多政策专家和分析人士都把中国视为未来的霸主。谷歌快速搜索显示，大量严肃的人都在非常理性地思考这个问题
这种国际格局也许不像过去那样（弱国向强国）卑躬屈膝，但毫无疑问，如果可能的话，中国（或任何国家）更愿意成为唯一的超级大国。

考虑到他们天生的“非我族类，其心必异”思维。我无法想象中印之间有任何平等的伙伴关系。在整个中国和中东地区，印度人通常都是廉价的进口劳动力，并且这种名声根深蒂固。（要改变它）需要大规模的社会工程和宣传。

至于英国的遗产。在回顾这段内容时，我不会做出任何修正。他们留下了一团乱麻，而就这么看着它并不比决定应该对此做些什么更有价值。印度目前正处于亲印度教的民族主义倾向中，并且政客们有个穆斯林坏家伙（巴基斯坦）用来分散民众的注意力。所以，除此之外，“英国的遗产”还能给前进道路上的人们什么启示吗？
现在谈谈我赞同或想讨论的部分。

印度肯定正在致力于保持某种平衡。当前，这涉及到俄罗斯、中国和美国。印度还没有获得任何领导地位，因为国内政治普遍难以驾驭，并且贫困消耗了他们大部分的注意力。
自动化将抑制印中两国利用庞大人口的能力，使平衡变得更加不利而非有利。印度可能会受到更大的冲击。

实际上你能看到：
1、美中两极。也许还有另一个玩家作为第三极出现。
2、美国继续保持霸权
3、无极世界将是不稳定的，所以我认为这不可能是一个真正和平的结果
没有人认为印度将是唯一的赢家。所以他们能做的最好的事情就是把自己凝聚在一起，并借助其他霸权的帮助而上位。当你看到印度人在鼓吹印度霸权时，那其实是他们在为对这个世界什么都没做而虚张声势。

[–]chernobyl-night-club [] 12
What indications do you see that China wants to supplant the US/West as "world hegemon"? In order to accomplish this, they must either usurp the current power structures (created and lead by the US). OR they must create alternatives and pull in major players which means flipping the EU to their side. Let's be honest. how likely is that?
Secondly, China does not look down on all peoples. They in fact, look up to western powers and try to emulate them. In my opinion, most chinese (asians in general) have inferiority complex when it comes to dealing with westerners.
Third, it wasnt the US that "built half of china". That's ridiculous. It was the asian tigers that invested and built up the factories. The US came in to exploit the labor and factories that was already setup by Taiwan (does Foxxcon ring a bell?), Hong Kong and Japan. The US was pretty late to game. Also, they rely more on Germans and Japanese for high-tech stuff, not the US (save for military and software).

有什么迹象表明中国想要取代美国/西方成为“世界霸主”？为了实现这一目标，他们要么必须篡夺当前（由美国创建并领导）的权力结构。要么，他们必须创造替代方案，并将主要的玩家吸引进来，这意味着将欧盟拉到他们一边。让我们诚实一点。上述情况的可能性有多大？
第二，中国没有看不起任何民族。事实上，他们羡慕西方列强，并试图效仿他们。在我看来，大多数中国人（通常是亚洲中国人）在与西方人打交道时都有自卑感。
第三，并不是美国“建造了中国的一半”。这太荒唐了。是投资并建立了工厂的亚洲四小龙。美国来这里是为了剥削那些台湾、香港和日本已经建立的劳动力和工厂。美国参加游戏很晚。此外，他们更依赖德国和日本的高科技产品，而不是美国（除了军事和软件）。

[–]TruismStrike [] 10
1)Many reasons. Beginning with a basic analysis of CHina's view of itself over the last 5,0000 year. Really has not been a thoroughly more self centered people like the Chinese ever. If you don't understand that about China then really you don't know enough about China to speak on the matter. Even one of the Chinese translations for its own name is 'middle kingdom' as in the middle/center of the world... This is not a coincidence or figurative. They mean it quite literally.
Other signals are China's aggression to be #1 in virtually anything and everything. Military included as China has embarked on the largest military build up in history, militarized the world largest trade route with aggressive artificial islands, openeing military bases anywhere and everywhere it can, a is a foremost aggressor in espionage and hacking/cyber attacks, and basically rapes any foreign company that comes to China for all its secrets and then funds their Chinese replacements. Altogether this is EXACTLY HOW a country like China country would aggressively pursue global dominance rather than an all out war which it knows it can't win. So China will continue doing what we have seen since the1990s until it can fight and win the open. At which point the rest of the world would have already lost.
All in all the only rational assessment of China's past and present leave it clear that this is clearly a hostile domineering country that has never had any intention of being anyone's equal at any point in its history but only to position itself as the 'middle of the world' as their own meaning for their name implies. Honestly China is as bad as the Nazis ever were. Secret police? Check. Racist attitudes & genocides? (look at Tibet and treatment of Uighers) Check. Massive aggressive military build up? Check. I'm not sure what is lacking that would make China worse than it is... totally set up as the new Nazi Germany in everyway. Probably worse because their superiority complex is 5,000 years old...
2) China does have a complex with the west, of course. It is the only civilization in their 5,000 years that has made them think twice about their basic assumption that they are the center of the world and everything revolves around them. The only reason we can even pretend it is in question whether or not Chinese look down on everyone else racistly is because the west showed them otherwise. As a result they are obsessed with surpassing the West as then they see it as returning to the natural order they have always known where they are the center of the world.
3) That is pretty disingenuous. Without Corporate America willingness to include Chinese in global trade China would never be where it is today. That is the bottom line.
Primary point remains in regards to India economic relations with the US is well proven in China and other places to spur development while China's model of export everything would prevent it.

1、原因有很多。首先是对过去5000年中国对自身看法的基本分析。真得从来没有哪个民族比中国人更加完全以自我为中心。如果你不了解中国的这一点，那么你对中国的了解程度就不足以谈论这个问题。甚至有“中国”这个名称的一个中文译名就是“中央王国”，就如他们处在在世界的中心……这不是巧合或比喻。这就是字面上的意思。

其他的表现在于中国几乎在任何事情上都有成为世界第一的逼人姿态。也包括军事——中国已经开始了有史以来规模最大的军事建设，用进攻性的人工岛来武装全球最大贸易路线，在它能力范围内全力开设军事基地，同时是间谍和黑客/网络攻击的首要攻击者，并且基本上，强jian任何来中国的外国公司，以获取它们所有的机密，然后为这些外企的中国替代者提供资金。总的来说，这就是中国这样的国家如何积极地追求全球主导地位的方式，而不是去打一场它知道自己赢不了的全面战争。因此，中国将继续做我们自上世纪90年代以来一直看到的事情，直到它能够战斗并赢得比赛。在这一点上，世界上的其他国家已经输掉了。

总之，对中国的过去和现在的唯一合理的评估已经清楚地表明，这是一个一个充满敌意的专制国家，在其历史上的任何时候都不愿意和别国平等相处，而只是把自己定位为“世界的中心”，就像他们自己的国名所暗示的那样。老实说，中国和当年的小胡子一样坏。秘密警察吗？是的。种族主义心态和种族屠杀？（看看西藏和维族人的待遇吧）是的。大规模进攻性军事建设？是的。我不知道还缺少什么能让中国比现在更糟糕的事项……在各个方面都建立了新的小胡子德国。也许更糟糕，因为他们的优越感已经有5000年的历史了……



[–]TruismStrike [] 10
Actually China usually invest mostly in the most corrupt and abusive governments in Africa because the west won't lend them money or trade much with them.
And the African countries that do have Chinese complain they are as abusive as 18th century Europeans.
Also everyone knows Chinese are the most racist against blacks out of everyone;
China was built by US corporations; they were the ones who hired Foxconn to hire Chinese. They Ok'd it, and gave the approval for the Chinese to participate in the production of American products. Likewise Nixon never removed China from the Embargo list China be less than half what it is today.
The ones with the ultimate authority in the matter of the decisions that lead to China every being allowed to be part of world trade was entirely Americans. Time to go back and reverse that decision. If US shuts CHina out of trade with the EU, which they should be able to if it comes to Embargos, China can kiss it all good bye.

实际上，中国通常主要投资于非洲最腐败、最滥用权力的政府，因为西方不会借钱给他们，也不会与他们进行大量贸易。
有中国人的非洲国家也抱怨中国人和18世纪的欧洲人一样虐待他们。
而且所有人都知道中国人是最歧视黑人的人；

中国是由美国公司建设的；这些公司通过雇佣富士康而间接雇佣中国人。他们同意了，并批准中方参与美国产品的生产。同样地，（假如）尼克松从未将中国从禁运名单上除去，（那么）中国的经济规模连今天的一半都达不到。
在决定中国允许成为世界贸易一员的问题上，拥有最高决策权的完全是美国人。是时候回过头来推翻这个决定了。如果美国关闭中国与欧盟的贸易（如果这涉及到贸易禁运的话，他们应该有这个能力），中国就可以和欧盟吻别了。

[–]i_already_forgot [] 9
http://www.afrobarometer.org/publications/ad122-chinas-growing-presence-africa-wins-largely-positive-popular-reviews
36 countries, mostly positive reviews. Up to you what you want to think.
On American corporations: This entire line of reasoning is ridiculous and doesn't correspond to the data - US FDI to China only picked up in the late 90's and it still isn't the major source of FDI. You are literally wrong, there isn't any other way to say it. Whether or not China can trade with other countries is an entirely different matter.

http://www.afrobarometer.org/publications/ad122-chinas-growing-presence-africa-wins-largely-positive-popular-reviews（译注：非洲多数国家对中国日益增强的存在感持积极态度的新闻链接）
36个国家，大部分是都正面评价。你想怎么想就怎么想。
关于美国公司：这整个推理过程是荒谬的，而且与数据不相符——美国对中国的直接投资只在90年代末才出现，而且它仍然不是外国直接投资的主要来源。你是错的，没有其他的方式来表达了。中国是否能与其他国家进行贸易与美国八竿子打不着。

[–]jotaro_kuj0 [] 13
unx doesn't always mean a political one. Since the times immemorial whole of Indian subcontinent was 1 cultural entity. All of indian military history is full of rulers attempting to unite all of India into one political unx.
The Mauryan Empire, Gupta Empire are the testimonials to this. Indian Kings never took well to the idea of foreign kings ruling over India. Hell, When the greeks invaded the second time, the king of Kalinga from far south-east went personally to see them ousted. Same thing happened with the southern kingdoms when the kushans invaded. The King of the south personally "escorted" them beyond the indus river. The Maratha empire itself started from few km of land in the south to conquering
80% of india by the time the britishers arrived.
edit1: the maratha empire was itself a culturally motivated armed response to the foreign rule of the mughals.

联盟并不总是意味着政治上的联盟。自古以来，整个印度次大陆都是一个文化实体。印度军事史上充满了试图将整个印度统一为一个政治联盟的统治者。
孔雀王朝，笈多帝国就是对此的证明。印度国王从未接受外国国王统治印度的想法。见鬼，当希腊人第二次入侵时，来自遥远东南部的陵伽国国王亲自去看着他们被驱逐。同样的事情也发生在南方诸国，当库沙人入侵的时候。南方国王亲自“护送”他们越过印度河。马拉地帝国本身从南方的几公里土地开始了征服旅程。
当英国人到达印度时，印度80%的地区已被它征服。
说明：马拉地帝国本身就是一种文化驱动的武装力量，以作为对莫卧儿人的外国统治的回应。

[–]BelligerentBenny [] 13
They are not 1 cultural entity today, certainly were not then.
They are one political entity and the subcontinent has been briefly unified before the modern era. But not for any length of time
The amount of diversity in a nation like India relative to the old Han empires are not comparable
I say this as a half Indian, they are barely a nation from a cultural perspective. I live in a settler colonial state and see less cultural diversity traveling here than I would India

他们今天不是一个文化实体，那时当然也不是。
它们是一个政治实体，在现代以前，次大陆曾短暂地统一。但持续时间不长
相对于古老的汉帝国而言，像印度这样的国家，二者的多样性程度不具有可比性
我是作为半个印度人来发表观点的，从文化的角度来看，他们算不上一个国家。我生活在一个移民殖民地国家，我在这里旅行时看到的文化多样性比我在印度看到的要少

[–]BelligerentBenny [] 11
Split apart by centuries and with only a couple generations controlling anything approaching what modern India does.
Setting up no lasting power structures or administration, two of those empires ruled by conquering invaders from outside the sub continent.
There are no less unified nations on this planet. Granted it's also the most populous so that makes sense. But the idea India has any real cohesion relative to just about everyone else is absurd. And that's what it is a relative standard. The Chinese and Germans have unity, Indians do not
Edit - and yes obviously China has many problems as well in their south and west. But they have a very large Han core that has a long history of being well administrated. There is no vast swath of India with that sort of parallel with centuries of administration to be the foundation of a major nation.

由于长达多个世纪的分裂，只有少数几代人控制着任何接近现代印度的事物。
由于没有建立起持久的权力结构或政府，其中两个帝国被来自次大陆外部的侵略者所统治。
在这个星球上没有比印度更不统一的国家了。当然它也是人口最多的，这也部分原因。但是，认为印度相对于其他所有国家都有某种真正的凝聚力的想法是荒谬的。这就是它的相对标准。中国和德国有统一性，而印度没有
说明——当然，中国在南方和西部也有很多问题。但是他们有一个很大的汉族核心，有着悠久的有效管理历史。在印度，没有哪一大块土地能与这种长达几个世纪的，能成为一个大国基础的行政管理相比。

[–]RoyalBengalTigerI[S] [] 11
Split apart by centuries and with only a couple generations controlling anything approaching what modern India does.
It's a vast territory and extremely populated. 4.5M km2 is no easy task.
AFAIK, only two Chinese dynasties/empires have achieved the feat of controlling what is modern day China.
Qing and Yuan, and the latter were Mongolians.
And on top of that, Tibet and Xinjiang were sparsely populated and hence easier to conquer. India was populated all over with extremely powerful and rich smaller Kingdoms.
two of those empires ruled by conquering invaders.
Delhi Sultanate and Mughals married into Indians pretty darn quickly and became Indian Kingdoms.

“由于长达多个世纪的分裂，只有少数几代人控制着任何接近现代印度的事物”
这是一块巨大的领土，人口众多。（统一）450万平方公里可不是一件容易的事。
据我所知，中国只有两个王朝/帝国完成国掌控现代中国版图的壮举。
清朝和元朝，后者还是蒙古人。
最重要的是，西藏和新疆人口稀少，因此更容易征服。而印度到处都是强大而富有的小王国。
“其中两个帝国被来自次大陆外部的侵略者所统治”
德里苏丹和穆格尔斯很快就嫁给了印度人，成为了印度王国。

[–]RoyalBengalTigerI[S] [] 11
The Chinese and Germans have unity, Indians do not
A country that was literally split into two only 30 years ago has "unity" yet one of the most nationalistic/patriotic nations doesn't?
Okay, then!

“中国和德国有统一性，而印度没有”
一个在30年前还被分裂为两个国家的国家有“统一性”，而最民族主义/爱国主义的国家之一却没有？
好吧！

[–]121131121 [] 12
Go read history. India is a unx of states... almost all of which were never united. Even the present India as we see, has never been a unx. It’s just a bunch of states that chose to stick together after Brits left. And at that, they are not the only group. Even there u can see fragmentation. Never United. Ever.

去读一读历史。印度是一个多国家联盟……几乎所有国家都从来没有统一过。就连我们现在看到的印度，也从来没有成为一个联盟国家。在英国人离开后，这只是一群选择团结在一起的国家。在这一点上，他们并不是唯一的群体。即使在那里，你也能看到碎片化。从来就没有过统一。从来没有。



[–]AsianSensation1087 [] 7
Which is why India is making its own play. With recent agreements with ASEAN and Australia. I think India can be the counterbalance the world needs to keep China in check, especially with Japan on the other side of China.

这就是为什么印度在制定自己的游戏。随着最近与东盟和澳大利亚签署了协议。我认为，印度可以成为世界需要的制衡中国的砝码，尤其是和站在中国对立面的日本一道。

[–]TheAbyssblxed [] 7
If there is one thing that the Indians have seen after their experience in the cold war and up to today, it's that first they'll be called on to target China, and once China is down, they're next.

如果有一件事是印度人在冷战和今天的经历之后已经看到的，那就是他们首先会被要求瞄准中国，但一旦中国倒下，他们就会成为下一个目标。

[–]Dilbertreloaded [] 1
India realises China is a stronger power and has more experience playing world stage to their advantage. But China is super aggressive and tends to suck up prosperity and resources to themselves. Chinese governace is dependent on the whims and fancies of the elite, and is completely detached to the people's wishes. There is no basis for a trustworthy relationship.. As China's building of bases around the world indicates, they(China ruling elite) fancy themselves as a super power that can take on US soon. As large nations, India and China will be competing for some of the same resources as well.

印度意识到中国是一个更强大的国家，有更多的经验在世界舞台上发挥自己的优势。但中国是超级好斗的，往往会吞噬繁荣和资源。中国的治理依赖于精英们的奇思妙想和幻想，完全脱离了人民的意愿。（和中国建立）一段值得信赖的关系是缺乏基础的……正如中国在世界各地建立基地的行为所表明的那样，他们（中国的统治精英）把自己想象成一个很快就能取代美国的超级大国。作为大国，印度和中国也将争夺一些相同的资源。
​