如果没有上帝，那么一切都是允许的吗? 《一》 [美国媒体]

If there is no god or gods, then is everything permitted? On what should one base morality in the absence of immortality and God? If there are no strings attached, and if nothing exists after death, why not do immoral things?

问题：
如果没有上帝，那么一切都是允许的吗?在没有永生和上帝的情况下，道德应该以什么为基础?如果没有任何羁绊，如果死后什么都不存在，为什么不做非道德的事情呢?

David Joyce
（Professor at Clark University1979-present Ph.D.Mathematics,University of PennsylvaniaGraduated 1979Lives in Massachusetts）Ethics, or morality or whateverterm you use for the concept, is a characteristic of all cultures whetheror not that culture has a god-based religion or a belief in afterlife.It's been studied by philosophers since before Aristotle's Ethics. Gods and an afterlife aren't necessary as a basis of ethics.It is true that many people grow up learning ethics grounded in a particular religion that uses gods and an afterlife as a justification for behaving in certain ways. Should they later reject that religion, they would find themselves without a moral focus. It may take them some time to develop a new basis for ethics.Addendum concerning Dostoyevsky's The Brothers KaramazovThe question had the following detail when it was posted:

大卫·约西 （1979年至今，克拉克大学教授，现任宾夕法尼亚大学数学博士）
回答1
伦理，或者道德，或者你用什么词来形容这个概念，
它都是所有文化的一个特征，不管这个文化是否有一个基于上帝的宗教或者来世信仰.

早在亚里士多德的伦理学之前，哲学家就开始研究这个问题.
“神”和“来世”并不是道德的基础.

的确，许多人在成长过程中学习的伦理学是基于一种特定的宗教，
这种宗教用“上帝”和“来世”来作为人类的行为的理由.

如果他们后来拒绝这种宗教，他们会发现自己没有道德基础了.
他们可能需要一些时间来建立一个新的道德基础

Anil Chouhan,
Digital entrepreneur, personal and organizational transformation coach, UI strategist and designer, and avi...Studied at S. P. Jain Institute of Management and Research Lives in San Francisco Bay Area God or no God, law of nature operate on all of us. Just like most likely God can't save your life if you jump from 50 storey building, you have to bear "Natural consequences" of your action.
Base your morality on "Rational Self Interest" - Morality is just a systematized / institutionalized way of preventing us from doing stupid things that will hurt eventually. For example, I personally believe that "Cows were made sacred" in India because of their long term value for the family and community and to prevent people from being near sighted and killing them in drought.Rational self interest says, we understand how our actions will eventually impact us - positively or negatively and hence we act wisely in the long term sense.For example, I grew up in a reasonably well to do family by Indian Standards and I had many poorer people around me. My rational self interest of my safety, peace around me, and happy community relations made me realize that I should be kind, respectful and give these poor people opportunities to do better. If I don't, over a decade or few I would have contributed to an unsafe and unhealthy society.

阿尼尔
（数字企业家，个人和组织转型教练，UI战略家和设计师，avi…技术主管- 曾就读于S. P. Jain管理与研究学院，住在旧金山湾区）

回答二：
不管有没有上帝，自然法则对我们所有人都起作用.
就像如果你从50层楼跳下去，上帝很可能救不了你的命一样
你必须得承担你自己的行为的“自然后果”.

把你的道德建立在“理性的自我利益”之上——道德只是一种系统化/制度化的方式
它就能阻止我们做那些最终会伤害到我们自己的愚蠢之事

例如，我个人认为，在印度，“牛是神圣的”，
因为这是基于牛对（印度的）家庭和社会的有长远的价值，
用“牛是神圣”的道德信条来防止人们因近视而在干旱季节杀死它们.



Theistic Morality
1. Abrahamic Religions: At this point clustering the three denominations will not do justice for the difference but for initial phase it could be considered similar.It is believed by millions that the Human kind is created in God's image and given the power of thinking. With this power comes human curiosity. Curiosity drives human kind's action.At this instant all kinds of pondering must have arose in the first humans. However, since at this point they have not tasted the fruit of knowledge, they are sinless. They have no moral compass because they have no"knowledge" of the extent of action. Without the knowledge of extent they have no knowledge of consequences. Without the knowledge of consequences they have no emotions of fear, loss, anger, grudge, violence or sadness. This cycle reiterates to inaction that is, without the negativity to force irrationality they found no reason to indulge. The moment of bliss is crystallized and is in an eternal state of inertia.But then God forbade.

（先剖析）有神论的道德：
1. 亚伯拉罕宗教:
这三个教派（注：伊斯兰、基督、犹太）在关于原始的“道德”论述上，并没有什么重大差别的，可以认为它们的观点是相同的.

（这三个教派）的许多信徒都是相信人类是按照上帝的形象创造出来的，
并被（上帝）赋予了思考的能力.
有了思考能力，人类的好奇心也随之而来，人类的行动也就是由好奇心来驱动.

此时，人类的始祖必然就有了各种各样的思考
然而，始祖虽然有了思考，但是他们还没有尝过“知识的果实”，所以他们是无罪的.

他们还没有“道德指南针”
就是因为他们对自己的行动范围还没有“知识”（还没尝过“知识的果实”）.

没有对（行动）范围的了解，他们就不知道后果.
如果不知道后果，他们就不会有恐惧、失落、愤怒、怨恨、暴力或悲伤的情绪.

这个循环重申了“不作为”
那就是：没有消极的力量来强迫他们（人类始祖）不放纵自己.

（人类始祖）极乐幸福的时光是纯碎的，也是“不逾矩”的永恒的状态.
然而，上帝打碎了（这种幸福时光）.

God forbade the first humans from eating the fruit of knowledge. That very act of denial concentrated every ounce of the human Pysché on a single question - Why?
We all still have those feelings. Without the need for reason or the outcome of consequences our ego asks - Why?The authors of Abrahamic Scriptures struggled with the same question perhaps. Whether from the purported incident of Eden or from the later years of theosophical churning of ideas - human kind’s contempt of God was the sin simply because we disobeyed.

上帝禁止人类始祖去吃那“知识的果实”.
这种“否认的行为”把所有的人类精神都集中到一个问题上——为什么?

我们（至今）仍然有这种（不断地问“为什么”的）感觉.
不需要理由，我们的自我就会问: 为什么?

亚伯拉罕圣经的作者们可能也在纠结着这个的问题（即“为什么”）.
无论是传说中的伊甸园事件，还是后来的神学思想——人类对上帝的蔑视只是因为我们不服从（都在纠结着“为什么”这个问题）.

And the moment the first couple ate the fruit, they knew of the extent of their action, the consequences and the emotions of everything we consider negative. In a sense this was the cause and effect in a full turn.[They ate the fruit and realized the immorality of their action. Had they not eaten the fruit, the curiosity would have had consumed their peace of mind and that only would have forced them to eat.]Of course humans today blame a scapegoat named devil. Without delving into the theological debates of his existence or absence, think on the reason!Humans regret the bliss of the garden where we never had to think of the negativity of life.Our own curiosity and the need to answer that "why?" led to the downfall... perhaps Devil is the incarnate of our own ugly ego who is so curious that it ignores the cycle of action->extent->consequences->negativity!

当（人类）第一夫妇吃下（伊甸园）水果的那一刻，
他们就了解到自己的“行动范围”应该到达哪里.
他们就了解到“行动的后果”
他们就了解到我们所知道的一切负面情绪.

从某种意义上说，这（他们吃下果实因而了解到“吃下果实的后果”）就是因果关系
他们吃了水果，然后就意识到他们的行为是不道德的
如果他们没有吃水果，好奇心就会一直搅动着他们的内心，会迫使他们去吃那个水果的

当然，今天的人类把责任归咎于一个叫“魔鬼”的替罪羊
（即认为是魔鬼诱使人类去吃那个水果）
先不要深究他（魔鬼）的存在或不存在的神学争论吧，先想想原因好了.

人类（始祖）对花园的幸福生活感到遗憾
因为在那里我们从未“品尝”过生活的消极的那一面

我们自己的好奇心和回答“为什么”的需要导致了失败……
也许“魔鬼”是我们自身丑陋一面的化身
我们自我的另一面是如此的好奇，以至于忽略了行动的循环——>程度——>结果——>消极性!

As the doctrine evolved more, more "Shalt Not" was added to the list of action which ignited their own cycle of consequences and outcomes.
Killing, Raping, Stealing, Blasphemy, War, Cursing, Grudging, Envy, Apathy, and Hate… read the Genesis chapters very clearly; they are full of actions of man, their consequences, and their outcomes which return back to further actions.
Rigid Divine Moral Codes cultivated rigid xenophobic sentiments. Xenophobia has never been helpful and kills the compassion a human being hold.

随着这一学说（亚伯拉罕神教）的不断发展
越来越多的“不应该”被添加到引发其自身后果和结果循环的行动清单中：
杀戮，强奸，偷窃，亵渎，战争，诅咒，勉强，嫉妒，冷漠和仇恨…

看《创世纪》的章节就非常清楚：
里面的内容充满了人类的行为，那些行为的后果，那些后果又反馈到下一步的行为.

刚性神圣的道德准则培养了刚性的排外情绪.
排外情绪从来没有起过作用，它扼杀了人类的同情心.

The world after Eden was riddled with humanity’s search for the extent of their actions and its consequences. The authors of Genesis insisted that it took divine retribution like deluge, fiery destruction of two cities, fracturing of language and enslavement of generations to instill morality in humanity. The fear of supernatural kind was the only force capable of keeping check on the morality.
Each time though human kind fell back into all acts that are immoral.Jewish theologians preached that God would actively smite the ungodly. The world remained ugly.Christians made a hell and the eternal fiery punishment for those who sinned. The world drowned in sinfulness.Islamic belief intensified the imagery of hell. The world embraced more violence.The more faiths tightened the proverbial nook, the humanity became more deviant.

伊甸园之后的世界充满了人类对自己的行为范围及其后果的探索.
《创世纪》的作者们坚持认为，要在人类中灌输道德观念，就需要神的报应.
比如洪水泛滥，毁灭两座城市，搞乱人类的语言，奴役（罪人）的子子孙孙.

虽然人类的行为经常逾矩，陷入“不道德”的范围里
但是，（亚伯拉罕教还是）把对超自然的恐惧当做是唯一一种能够约束（人类）道德的力量.

犹太神学家宣扬上帝会积极打击不敬神的人
（即便如此）世界仍然是丑陋的



The trinities of Hinduism preside over three separate qualities [Guna] which forms the basis of experience.
1. [Vi??u] – The Caretaker of the Universe
2. [Brahmā] – The Initiator and the Creator
3. [?iva] – The Destructor and the agent of Rebirth.

Their domains are the qualities in a thinking kind i.e. human.
a) Sattva Guna (Purity/Reality) – Pacifying, healing and purifying character which invokes a sense of calmness and content. Nothing of the material world is desirable.
b) Rajas (Action/Passion) – Excitement, passion and the desire for propagation of life (birth) which invokes a sense of motion. It is considered a duty and hence material desires becomes a necessity.
c) Tamas (Resistance/Inertia) – Indifference, darkness (note this darkness is not of the evil kind but the darkness of consciousness, a state of slumber if you will), dissolution, death, destruction and ignorance which invokes a sense of longing and discontent. It is the resistance of a soul against any change. It is the lowest form of consciousness possible for a thinking kind.
A soul after countless lives in every species on this earth attains the form of the thinking kind. It gains the Tamas character. Moral acts of a soul which strive harmony, well-being and happiness for every living thing that surround it, earns character of Rajas and then Sattva qualities. When the soul ascend above the peaceful state of sattva guna i.e when the desire of being at peace itself is cast away… it attains Moxsa (Salvation), fulfil the reason of its existence and returns of the Prime consciousness.

印度教的三性主导着三种不同的特质[古纳]，它们构成经验的基础：
1. 毗湿奴——宇宙与生命的守护神
2. 梵天 ——创造之神，宇宙之主
3. 湿婆 ——毁灭之神，兼具生殖与毁灭、创造与破坏双重性格.

他们（掌管）的领域是“智灵人”的（三个）性质，也就是人类的三个性质.
分别是以下三项：

a) 善良属性(纯净/真实)——安抚、治疗和净化性格，唤起平静和满足的感觉.
物质世界中没有什么是令人向往的.（注：这个属性代表远离物欲的意思）

b) 激情属性(动作/激情)——刺激，激情和对生命传播(出生)的渴望，这激发了一种动感
这个属性被认为是一种“不可或缺”的属性，因此物质欲望成为一种必需品

c) 愚昧属性(抵抗/惰性)——冷漠，黑暗(注意，这种黑暗不是邪恶的，而是意识的黑暗， 如果你 愿意，可理解为一种睡眠状态)，解散，死亡，毁灭和无知，这些都会引起渴望和不满
这个属性是灵魂对任何变化的惰性，这是一种思维、意识的最低形式.

某个灵魂在地球上历经无数轮回，在所有的物种身上投胎重生之后
由感悟而获得了“善良属性”.

（如果）这个灵魂再做事很道德，一直努力为它周围的每一种生物争取和谐、安宁和幸福
那么它就再获得“激情属性”，加上“善良属性”.

当这个灵魂超越“善良属性”，克除“执着”的物欲
它就获得了救赎，实现了它存在的原因和最初意识的回归（注：就是立地成佛的意思）

（译者注：印度教圣典《薄伽梵歌》讲述了物质自然的三种形态,
分别是：萨埵sattva、罗傛rajas、多磨tamas.

萨埵具有喜的本质和照明作用；
罗傛具有忧的本质和冲动作用；
多磨具有迷暗的本质和抑制的作用.

三德间处于相互依存或支配的状态,当它们互相依存并平衡时，自性处于原初状态.
当三德中的平衡被打破，即某德占上风而支配其他两德的时候，自性就开始演化或转变.
而三德的状态决定着事物的形态或特征.）

If it chooses to stay in indifference and ignorance and indulges in acts of lawlessness, ignore duty and it actively strives to do evil. Selfishness reaches prime and the material desire no longer remains a necessity but becomes an obsession. The soul is entangles in the illusion of the creation and further spiral down into the states of less and less consciousness of the divine. It departs further away from salvation and only bring and seek pain and suffering for itself and its surrounding.The stories of demonic kings, who lusted after material desire and brought destruction over themselves and all around them, were the lessons for humanity to shun the immoral ways.The Vedic Theologians understood the complex inter-dependence among humans and nature. Here the fear of God wasn't needed per say because a human being by its own action or inaction towards degrading quality would lead to his.her entrapment into the illusion.But this was still not enough, The fear of being trapped in this illusive world did not frighten the living so the judgment of Yama and punishment in hell (Naraka) according to one’s sin (both quantitative and qualitative) was defined.
The newer religion like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism adapted the selected doctrines from Vedic theosophical ideologies and created their own version of guidebook.For a time it was good.At present though, people irrespective of their faith and belief commit atrocities and indulge in immoral behavior. In a sense the situation has worsened and may be it never recovered.

如果某个灵魂选择保持冷漠和无知，
沉溺于无法无天的行为，忽视责任，积极地努力做坏事，自私到了极点
痴迷执着于物欲里，沉沦于“迷幻”的苦海里，

那么，它的“神——佛”性就会越来越少.
这个灵魂就无法得“渡”，它只为自己和周围的人带来和痛苦.

恶魔国王的故事是：
他们贪享物欲，给自己和周围的人带来毁灭，这就是人类不道德行为的教训.

吠陀神学家理解人类和自然之间复杂的相互依赖关系.
在这里，并不需要上帝的威胁来吓阻人类的不道德行为.

因为，（吠陀神学家主张）一个人自己的行为或不作为会导致他的“佛性”下降.
他会陷入迷梦苦海之中，（他遭受的惩罚）还不止于此：

对于那些不怕被困在这个虚幻世界的人
（吠陀神学家）还定义阎罗王和地狱.用来审判、惩罚那些（胆大包天）之徒
根据他的罪孽(定量和定性)来（严厉处罚）.

较新的宗教，如佛教、耆那教和锡克教，
从吠陀神学意识形态中拣选了一些教义，用来创造了他们自己的道德行为指南.
某些时期，这一套还真的管用了.

但是，当今时代，人们已经丢弃信仰，肆意妄为，沉溺于不道德的行为中.
从某种意义上说，局势已经恶化，而且可能永远不会恢复.

So, coming back to you original question,
“If there is no God and nothing exists after death why not indulge in immorality?”As those who indulge in immorality and inflict outrageous pain and suffering and still belong to one form of theistic belief or another, perhaps at the back of their mind they sub-consciously or unconsciously understand the twisting of faith. They are capable of defining a new way where they are above the moral codes or create new codes altogether.Even if they have been told of a divine retribution; day to day, case by case and amount by amount they commit immorality. So even if God dictated morality… human rebellion and curiosity of that “Why?” takes hold, in the end. The rigid codes create the xenophobia faced by the earlier societies and that drives humans towards acts of bias.What of the Atheist Kind then?

回到你最初的问题，
“如果没有上帝，死后什么也不存在，为什么不沉湎于不道德中呢?”

那些沉湎于不道德行为的人，造成令人发指的痛苦与苦难，
但是，他们仍然属于某种有神论信仰的人.
也许在他们的内心深处，他们潜意识地或无意识地扭曲了（他们自己的）信仰.
他们能够定义一种超越道德准则的新方式，或者（为自己的行为）创造全新的（道德）准则.

即使他们被告知有上帝的惩罚;
但是，他们还是不停地、一个接一个地犯下了不道德的罪行

所以说，即使是上帝决定了“道德”，
人类也会反叛（上帝的道德），会坚持到底地好奇着“为什么不”.
严厉的（上帝道德）限制造成了上古社会仇外情绪，（那时的）人类容易采取偏见的行为.
那么无神论者呢?



Conclusion:
You feel sad when you see a dog limping after an accident. You are moved when you hear children's over joyous voice on discovering rain for the first time. You give food to a ragged person irrespective of any God you follow/ do not follow because you feel fulfilled when you see the satisfaction on his/her face.
If anyone who finds pleasure in misfortune of another, willfully inflict pain of several shades of sadism, care about how much good money he/she earned by doing social welfare to earn the ticket of God’s audience, care about how much social standing and recognition they have received by being generous and how that recognition will bring more ka-ching… they are beyond the reach of any moral compass. Theist or Atheist - they have drenched themselves in the Psychopathic mentality.Even if God was never here, the sense of community, empathy, compassion and kindness and the search of happiness in someone else’s would have been enough. It is still enough for atheists who have chosen this way.
Why?Majority of this world have been following some form of divinity and look where the world is today? So many behaviors are forbidden by Divine code... and even then the World Wails.How much "Divine Morality" does it require that we had to witness so many wars, two world wars, ethno-religious conflicts and weapons of oblivion and it is still not enough?

结论:
当你看到一只狗在一次事故后跛行时，你会感到悲伤
当你听到孩子们在第一次发现雨时的欢声笑语时，你被感动了
当你给一个衣衫褴褛的人食物，不管你信奉/不信奉任何上帝，
你看到他/她脸上的满足时，你感到满足了

如果：
有人故意施虐，把自己的快乐建立在别人的痛苦之上.
只关心他/她赚了多少钱.
只关心他/她的慷慨所得到的社会地位和认可度.以及这种认可将如何为他们带来更多的收益……

那么，这些人已经是任何道德都救不了他们了
（无论他们是）有神论还是无神论——他们都已经浸沉在自己的变态心理里了.

（一个人只有具有）社区感、同理心、同情、善良，以及为他人谋幸福（的心态），
就算没有上帝，这也足够了.
对于选择这种方式的无神论者来说，这也已经足够了.

为什么（这么说呢）?
这个世界的大多数人都在追随某种形式的“神”，——看看今天的世界是什么样子？
那么多的行为被神圣的（上帝）法则所禁止……那又如何？ 整个世界还不是在哭泣.

我们需要多少“神的道德”来见证这么多的战争？，
两次世界大战、种族-宗教冲突、灭绝性武器，这还不够吗?