美媒：美国主要航空公司并没有在意中国将台湾列为国家一部分的警告 [美国媒体]

Major U.S. airlines aren't heeding China's warning to refer to Taiwan as a part of the country

美国主要航空公司并没有在意中国将台湾列为国家一部分的警告



A demand by China that all air carriers worldwide refer to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau on online maps and drop-down menus as Chinese territories — not as independent regions — is being ignored by the U.S.’s biggest airlines.At least for now.

中国要求全球所有航空公司都将在线地图和下拉菜单中的台湾、香港和澳门称为中国领土的一部分—而非独立区域，被美国最大的航空公司忽视。至少现在是这样。

The order from Beijing came in May, and dozens of foreign-based carriers have already fallen in line.
Earlier this week, the Associated Press confirmed that 20 carriers, including Air Canada, British Airways and Lufthansa, were referring to Taiwan as a part of China on their global websites. China claims democratic Taiwan as part of its territory, but the two have been ruled separately since the Chinese civil war of the 1940s.

来自北京的要求是5月份发出的，数十家外国航空公司已经站队北京一边了。本周早些时候，美联社证实，包括加拿大航空、英国航空和德国汉莎航空在内的20家航空公司在其全球网站上都将台湾列为中国的一部分。中国声称台湾是其领土的一部分，但自上世纪40年代中国内战以来，中国大陆和台湾一直被分开统治。

In a statement, China’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said: “Foreign enterprises operating in China should respect China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, abide by China’s law and respect the national sentiment of the Chinese people.”The White House, however, blasted the order, calling it “Orwellian nonsense.”

中国外交部发言人耿爽在一份声明中说:“在华经营的外国企业应该尊重中国的主权和领土完整，遵守中国的法律，尊重中国人民的民族感情。”然而，白宫抨击了这一命令，称其为“奥威尔式的无稽之谈”。

Among those carriers that continue to include the name “Taiwan” on their maps or list of destinations are American, Delta, United and Hawaiian Airlines.American Airlines requested a 60-day extension — until July 25 — from the Chinese order. An American Airlines spokesman declined to discuss the matter except to say: “We are consulting with the U.S. government on the matter."
In a statement, Delta said: “We are reviewing the Civil Aviation Administration of China’s request and will remain in close consultation with the U.S. Government throughout this process.”

在那些继续将“台湾”列入其地图或目的地名单的航空公司中，有美国航空、达美航空、联合航空和夏威夷航空。美国航空公司请求将宽限期延长60天至7月25日。美国航空公司发言人拒绝讨论此事，只是说:“我们正在就此事与美国政府磋商。”达美航空在一份声明中表示:“我们正在审议中国民航局的请求，并将在整个过程中与美国政府保持密切磋商。”

China has yet to say what punishment it may impose on airlines that defy its order. But a financial penalty or other punishment could create complications for China because the biggest U.S. airlines that fly to Taiwan and other Chinese destinations often do so through partnerships with China-based carriers such as Shanghai Airlines, China Airlines and China Eastern Airlines.

中国尚未表示会对违抗其命令的航空公司施加何种惩罚。但经济处罚或其他处罚可能会给中国带来麻烦，因为飞往台湾和其他中国目的地的美国最大航空公司通常是通过与上海航空、中国航空和中国东方航空等中国大陆航空公司有合作关系的。

GoldenMegaStaff 296 points·1 day ago
What are they going to do, shut down all air travel between the US and PRC, lol?

他们将怎么做，关闭中美之间的所有航班吗？

Intense_introvert70 points·1 day ago
They could ban US carriers from PRC. It'd be a revenue blow.

他们可能会禁止在中国的美国航空公司。这将对航空公司的收入造成打击。

supercharged0708182 points·1 day ago
They won’t do that. All China does is make empty threats to scare the companies.

他们不会这样做。中国所做的只是制造空洞的威胁来吓唬这些公司。

CitationX_N7V11C13 points·1 day ago
They could, and probably will knowing the Chinese, restrict opening future markets to US airlines and hassle them with new "regulations."

了解中国的可能知道他们可以限制向美国航空公司开放未来的市场，并用新的“法规”给美国航空公司找麻烦。

GoldenMegaStaff19 points·1 day ago
Yeah, they have really stopped him so far. Did you miss the whole part about US tariffs on China? And now who is starting a trade war over stupid reasons?

是的，到目前为止他们真的阻止了特朗普。你不知道美国要对中国征收关税吗?现在谁又因为愚蠢的理由想要发动贸易战呢?

nothaphoebe184 points·1 day ago
Glad they aren't caving to pressure like Air Canada.

很高兴他们没有像加拿大航空公司那样屈服于压力。

THE_FREEDOM_COBRA 33 points·1 day ago
I just wish we'd get an administration that wouldn't cave to the bullshit "One China" policy. I find it embarrassing as an American.

我只是希望我们的政府不要屈服于狗屁的“一个中国”政策。作为一个美国人，我觉得很尴尬。

taxidermic8 points·1 day ago
We have the One China policy because China has said they’ll invade if Taiwan is recognized by any major power. The US doesn’t want to start a war with China because it would hurt our economy, waste lives, and generally just be massively unpopular

我们奉行一个中国的政策，因为中国（大陆）说如果台湾被任何大国承认，他们就会入侵。美国不想与中国开战，因为那会伤害我们的经济，浪费生命，而且通常会非常不受欢迎。

Laser_Gunns 67 points·1 day ago
What the fuck are you talking about?
Trump literally fielded a call from the Taiwanese President when he was elected.
China threw a hissy fit about it.
What is 'embarrassing' as an American is how un-goddamned-informed people are.

你他妈的在说什么?特朗普当选时确实接到了台湾“总统”的电话。中国对此大发脾气。作为一个美国人，那些不懂弦外之音的人让我很“尴尬”。

hiddenuser12345 38 points·1 day ago
Well, China threw a hissy fit and there have been no calls since, so that hissy fit apparently worked.

好吧，中国大发脾气了，从那以后就再也没有互通电话了，所以这种大发脾气显然奏效了。

WuTangGraham19 points·1 day ago
That was 2 years ago. Trump changes positions on a near daily basis. He has been (at least recently) adhering to the "1 China" policy. Of course, that may change next week. And again the week after.
Although, I do agree, what is embarrassing as an American is how uninformed people are.

那是两年前的事了。特朗普几乎每天都会改变立场。他(至少最近)坚持“一个中国”政策。当然，这种情况下周可能会改变。下周又变回来。虽然，我同意，作为一个美国人，最尴尬的是人们是多么的无知。

GreedyChocolate2 points·15 hours ago
PRC is horrible for the world. They also destroyed china culture in the mainland. Also the british were incredible stupid to give back Hong Kong.

中华人民共和国对世界来说是可怕的。他们还摧毁了中国大陆的中国文化。同样，英国人也愚蠢得难以置信，竟然还回了香港。

LiveForPanda-11 points·1 day ago
"One China Policy" is basically the foundation of US-China relation, without it, you don't have one.

“一个中国政策”基本上是美中关系的基础，没有它，就没有中美关系。

Exitre15 points·1 day ago
Oh please, the foundation of US-China relations is the massive quantity of US-China trade. Money talks louder than a transparently face-saving political mythology.

拜托，美中关系的基础是大量的美中贸易。金钱比保全面子的政治神话更有说服力。

LiveForPanda10 points·1 day ago
US-China trade is the fruit of this relationship, not the foundation. Each country has its own core interest that weighs more than simple economic interests, and Taiwan issue is China's core interest.
If our leaders fail to see this, it can lead to disastrous consequences.

美中贸易是这种关系的成果，而不是基础。每个国家都有自己的核心利益，比单纯的经济利益更为重要，台湾问题是中国的核心利益。如果我们的领导人看不到（美国承认）这一点，就会导致灾难性的后果。

Shniggit2 points·19 hours ago
Fruits are seeds.
The trade between the US and China is now a bountiful orchard, and the One-China policy is a sick, old tree.

中美贸易现在是一片富饶的果园，一个中国的政策是一棵有病的老树。

LiveForPanda1 point·9 hours ago
Let's just say this. The trade is a bountiful orchard that grows on this old tree. You burn down this tree because you don't like it, then you you burn down everything that comes with it.

那就像你那样说吧。贸易是生长在这棵老树上的富饶果园。因为你不喜欢它，你把这棵树烧掉，最后你会把它带来的一切都烧毁。

THE_FREEDOM_COBRA1 point·22 hours ago
The difference is that China requires someone to sell goods to and the United States require someone to buy from(obvious the US does export some to China, but our trade deficit there shows it ain't a lot.) We can find some one else to import goods from, preferable a friendlier less Facist-Communist country, they can't really find anyone our size to sell to. In fact we've already began strengthening ties to India. Losing the US market would be more than a small hit to there economy, if at this point they chose to take military action against Taiwan, it would only make things worse for them as any chance of us opening ports again would go out the window. Now, let's assume the absolute worse: China declares war on the US. This would be an incredibly dumb thing for a state like China to do. China has been actively suppressing dissent from all of it's citizens and continues to subjugate both Tibet and Hong Kong. This is a situation ripe for rebellion, if China were to enter a total war(which would be necessary for any armed attempt against the US) these two regions, as well as possibly deeper internal ones, would force China into a two front war. In other words, they can't do that. I have no interest in our country bending to the wolf who's teeth are in fact, plastic.

中美之间不同的是,中国需要销售商品，美国需要购买商品(很明显，美国也向中国出口一些,但我们的贸易赤字表明它不是很多)。我们可以找到一些其他国家来进口商品,选择一个更友好的国家,而不是一个法西斯-共产主义国家，但中国找不到像我们这么大的出口市场。

事实上，我们已经开始加强与印度的关系。失去美国市场对中国的经济是一个不小的打击，如果此时他们选择对台湾采取军事行动，只会让他们的处境更糟，因为美国将不可能再对中国开放市场了。

现在，让我们假设更糟糕的情况:中国对美国宣战。对于中国这样的国家来说，这将是一件极其愚蠢的事情。中国一直在积极压制所有公民的异议，并持续压制西藏和香港。如果中国要进入一场全面战争(这对任何针对美国的武装企图都是必要的)，这两个地区，以及可能更深层次的内部冲突，都将迫使中国陷入两场正面战争。换句话说，他们做不到。我对我们国家屈服于一只塑料牙齿的狼不感兴趣。

LiveForPanda2 points·9 hours ago
China is America's 4th largest export market, it might not be "a lot" in comparison to imports from China, but it is a lot for American farmers and businesses like Boeing.
You can't, especially in short term. Name one country that has more than a billion people, a well trained labor force, a well established, almost to complete supply chain, a transportation system that allows speedy logistics.
A few years back, people predicted countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, and India can replace China, but China is simply irreplaceable in a lot of industries. For example, you may find some of your Nike shoes being "made in Vietnam" instead of "made in China", but do you know Vietnam has to import raw materials such as fiber, fabric, and cotton from China?
Also, why would a company pay extra to ship manufacturing to another country when all the components and workers they need are in the same province in China?
Yes, the US market still represents a huge chunk of China's export, but it's not China's only export market. European Union and the developing world is where China's targeting right now. If Americans can live without Chinese products, I'm pretty sure Chinese factories can live without American consumers.
"Strengthening ties to India" doesn't mean it can provide a stable supply of goods you need. This is why I see most American companies outsourcing their manufacturing to China, not India. Having workers that regularly go on strike and burn down million dollar factories really isn't helping India in its competition with China.
This is why people like you need to understand the core interests of other countries. Americans tend to have a mentality of "I'll just do this, and they'll let us do it because we are America", and it ALWAYS lead to unexpected, mostly disastrous results.
For Beijing, allowing a foreign nation to directly intervene Taiwan issue IS the worse for China. As what I said, One China Policy is the foundation of US-China relationship, without it, you don't have one. If tonight Donald Trump declares he recognizes two Chinas or gives green light to Taiwan independence, you can consider two countries' relationship officially dead.
No, China won't declare war on the US, anyone who believes in that scenario is simply unaware of the situation. China will launch immediate strike against Taiwan, and if the US get's involved, there might be collateral damage of American personnel, but there won't be a declaration of war. China didn't declare war on the US in Korea or Vietnam, because both countries agreed to keep the scale of war in control, and you tell me the US would sacrifice its relationship with Beijing to protect a tiny island?
Monks and college students aren't the best people for open rebellion.

中国是美国第四大出口市场，与从中国的进口相比，中国或许算不上“很多”，但对美国农民和波音等企业来说，中国的出口很大。美国不可能用其他国家替代中国，尤其是在短期内。（除中国外），你能列举出一个拥有超过10亿人口，受过良好培训的劳动力，建立良好的，几乎完整的供应链，一个拥有快速物流的运输系统的国家吗？

几年前，人们曾预测越南、印尼和印度等国可以取代中国，但中国在很多行业都是无可替代的。例如，你可能会发现你的一些耐克鞋是“越南制造”，而不是“中国制造”，但你知道越南必须从中国进口纤维、织物和棉花等原材料吗?此外，当一个公司需要的所有零部件和工人都在中国的同一个省份时，为什么还要给另一个国家支付额外的制造费用呢?

是的，美国市场仍占中国出口的很大一部分，但它不是中国唯一的出口市场。欧盟和发展中国家是中国目前的目标。如果美国人没有中国产品也能活，我敢肯定中国工厂没有美国消费者也能生存。

“加强与印度的联系”并不意味着它能提供你需要的稳定的商品供应。这就是为什么我看到大多数美国公司将生产外包给中国，而不是印度。经常举行罢工、烧毁价值数百万美元的工厂，真的无助于印度与中国的竞争。

这就是为什么像你这样的人需要了解其他国家的核心利益。美国人往往有这样一种心态:“我就这么做，他们会让我们这么做，因为我们是美国人。”对北京来说，允许外国直接干涉台湾问题对中国来说更糟糕。正如我所说，一个中国政策是美中关系的基础，没有它，就没有中美关系。如果今晚特朗普宣布承认两个中国，或者为台湾独立开了绿灯，你可以认为两国关系已经正式死亡。

中国不会对美国宣战，任何有这种设想的人都不了解情况。中国将立即对台湾发动袭击，如果美国介入，可能会对美国人员造成附带损害，但不会有宣战。中国没有在朝鲜或越南对美国宣战，因为两国都同意控制战争规模，而你告诉我美国将牺牲与北京的关系来保护一个小岛?另外，僧侣和大学生并不是公开反叛的最佳人选。

Exitre1 point·22 hours ago
I'm curious what definition of "core interest" you are using in your analysis, as I see no objective indication to support that claim. Taiwan functions as an independent state, with which the US has a defense treaty and routinely sells military hardware. PRC has done little to nothing to challenge this status quo. Contrast this with the US response to the Cuban missile crisis, for example, which represented a real core interest challenge. Clearly economic concerns, which are neither simple nor to be dismissed so readily in the context of US-China relations, have taken precedence.
Contrast also with the South China Sea, which actually does look like a core interest of PRC, where it is constructing defensible military installations over all objections.

我很好奇你在分析中使用的“核心利益”的定义是什么，因为我看不出有什么客观的迹象来支持这种说法。台湾有一个独立“国家”的职能，美国与台湾签订了防务条约，并经常向台湾出售军事装备。中国（大陆）对这一现状的挑战微乎其微。例如，这与美国对古巴导弹危机的反应形成了鲜明对比，这代表了真正的核心利益挑战。

显然，在美中关系的背景下，经济问题既不简单，也不容易被轻视。与此形成对比的是南中国海，它看起来确实像是中国的核心利益所在，尽管各方反对，它仍在建设可防御的军事设施。

LiveForPanda1 point·9 hours ago
I'm curious what definition of "core interest" you are using in your analysis, as I see no objective indication to support that claim.
"Core interest" is a term China uses. To the US, Washington's core interest is not having any military threat in the western hemisphere of the world, such as missiles in Cuba. To China, core interest means the integration of national identity and sovereignty, and Taiwan is the last remanent of Chinese civil war that remains unresolved, just like Two Vietnam,s Two Germanys, and Two Koreas.
Taiwan functions as an independent state, with which the US has a defense treaty and routinely sells military hardware.
The government of ROC still controls part of Chinese territory that is more than just the island of Taiwan, also, the US doesn't have defense treaty with ROC anymore, it died with Washington's recognition of PRC.
PRC has done little to nothing to challenge this status quo.
China has expressed harsh criticisms every time the US does sell arms to Taiwan. Based on China's military capability today, it can blockade Taiwan like what the US did to Cuba, but that will only happen when there is imminent threat, such as the US moving troops and warships to station in Taiwan.
Contrast also with the South China Sea, which actually does look like a core interest of PRC, where it is constructing defensible military installations over all objections
China can safely build defense structures in SCS because the islands were uninhabited in the first place; there was no risk for armed resistance. On the other hand, China's claim to SCS was directly being challenged by neighboring states, but Taiwan issue remains the same as long as there is no declaration of independence.
Historically, PRC has made compromises regarding SCS, and that's why ROC's 11-dash line turned into today's 9-dash line, but Beijing will never ever make compromise regarding Taiwan.

“核心利益”是中国的一个术语。对美国来说，华盛顿的核心利益是在世界西半球没有任何军事威胁，比如在古巴的导弹。对中国来说，核心利益意味着国家认同和主权的融合，而台湾是中国内战中最后一个悬而未决的遗留问题，就像两个越南、两个德国和两个朝鲜一样。

中华民国政府仍然控制着中国领土的一部分，不仅仅只有台湾岛，而且美国与中华民国没有防御条约，它随着华盛顿承认中华人民共和国就已经不存在了。每当美国向台湾出售武器时，中国就表达了严厉的批评。基于中国今天的军事实力，它可以像美国对古巴那样封锁台湾，但这只有在有迫在眉睫的威胁时才会发生，比如美国将军队和军舰部署到台湾。

中国可以在南海建造安全的防御设施，因为这些岛屿一开始是无人居住的;没有发生武装抵抗的危险。另一方面，中国对南海诸岛的主权主张受到邻国的直接挑战，但只要没有独立声明，台湾问题就不会改变。

从历史上看，中国已经在南海问题上做出了妥协，这就是为什么中华民国的“十一段线”变成了今天的“九段线”，但北京方面永远不会在台湾问题上做出妥协。

tsiland 4 points·1 day ago
He’s right. The foundation of US-China relationship is built on one China policy. US can choose not to adopt such policy but Beijing will most likely to cut all official relationship. Face-saving political mythology? Taiwan issue is the core interest of China.You apparently have a misunderstanding of how people think of Taiwan in mainland China.

他是对的。美中关系的基础是一个中国政策。美国可以选择不接受这一政策，但北京方面极有可能切断所有官方关系。面子政治的神话?台湾问题是中国的核心利益。你显然对于中国大陆人民怎么看待台湾有误解。

ameoba1 point·4 hours ago
Air Canada is the flag carrier of Canada so diplomatic issues are much bigger for them. The US doesn't have any airline with the same status.

加拿大航空公司是加拿大的旗舰航空公司，因此外交问题对他们来说更为重要。美国没有任何一家航空公司拥有同样的地位。

KCBassCadet-11 points·1 day ago
Glad they aren't caving to pressure like Air Canada.
Canada is essentially a North American China. No surprises here.

加拿大基本上是一个北美的中国。这里没有惊喜。

Suspicious_Pineapple0 points·11 hours ago
Why wouldn't they own it? It was part of China since the Qing dynasty. The Government lost their civil war and fled to Taiwan.

为什么台湾不是中国的一部分呢?自清朝以来，它就是中国的一部分。政府在内战中失败，逃到了台湾。

Suspicious_Pineapple2 points·18 hours ago
Exactly.Taiwan is "China". And China is "china" too.. Thus the problem. Its like if Republicans and Democrats each got their own country

完全正确。台湾是“中国”。中国也是“中国”。因此这个问题。就像共和党和民主党各自拥有自己的国家一样。

yuzaiyun-6 points·1 day ago
Something like 800 million people lifted out of poverty, citizens riding by far the largest high speed rail all around the country, the single most amazing increase in standard of living in history, and the largest block of global tourists.
Seems like a pretty great ride for the common people*
*a lot of terrible shit has also happened, but what government hasn’t done terrible shit?

大约有8亿人摆脱了贫困，市民们乘坐着世界上最大规模的分布在全国各地的高速铁路，历史上最令人惊叹的生活水平的提高，以及全球最大的游客群。对普通人来说，这似乎是一次很好的旅行。也发生了很多糟糕的事情，但是有什么政府没有做过糟糕的事情呢?

Shniggit1 point·18 hours ago
Yeah I've done some studies about the standard of living. Yes the communists increased the standard of living dramatically. But still even today there are parts of China that are obscenely poor.
Reccomend reading "The Forbidden Game: Golf and the Chinese Dream."
It was not my only source, but it was the book I enjoyed researching the most. Who would have thought that a leisure activity for the wealthy would be the best lens to look at wealth inequality. (On second thought it's a no brainer)
Tl;dr. The Communists did raise the standard of living, but today there is an immense disparity of wealth between a Chinese person living in Shanghai as opposed to say, Xinjiang or even parts of Hainan. Which is a problem China must address.

是的，我做过一些关于生活水平的研究。是的，中国政府大大提高了生活水平。但即便是今天，中国仍有一些地区极度贫困。推荐阅读《禁忌游戏:高尔夫与中国梦》。这不是我唯一的来源，但这是我最喜欢研究的书。谁会想到，为富人举办的休闲活动将是审视财富不平等的最佳视角呢?(仔细想想就知道了)。中国政府确实提高了生活水平，但如今居住在上海的中国人与居住在新疆甚至海南部分地区的人之间的财富差距巨大。这是中国必须解决的问题。