美国为什么这么富裕 [美国媒体]

美国一所普通高校的一位历史学家youtube 上发布了个简短视频，探讨美国为什么富裕。视频很短，几乎就是丢了个问题出来后闪人。



JoeysWorldTour
Beautiful free market capitalism?

原因是完美的资本主义自由市场

nattygsbord
Its a socialist economy. Socialism for the rich

美国是社会主义经济，社会主义致富。

_ Sh0cKwavE
nattygsbord then it isn't socialism?

他不是社会主义。

nattygsbord
It is socialism. Every economy in history has to some degree been a planned economy, and in America its the rich and the bankers who makes the planning, and not the government

他是社会主义。历史上任何一种经济都必须有一定程度的计划经济，在美国，政府没有制定计划，计划是由富人和银行家制定的。

Noel Fallstrom
nattygsbord Do you have any evidence or even an anecdote? Or do you just expect people to agree because rich bankers are an easy target?

哪里来的说法？你有证据吗？  还是仅因富人和银行家易成仇富之的，你就指望别人赞同你？

1. The rich in the United States are always fluctuating. If you look at the top 10 richest people, most were not born rich. Therefore I have to ask, why did those rich people plan for so many new people to get rich instead of themselves? There are also many rich people who lose their fortune from bad investments and high spending.

1. 美国的富人阶层并不是固定不变,你可以看前十名最富的人，大部分都不是生来就在那位置。 美国可是有很多人因为投资失败或挥霍过度而跌出富人行列的。 那么可以问问，为什么那些富人要制定一个让别人取代自己的计划？

2. What tools do these rich people have to keep themselves rich and plan the economy? Bankers do reject many loan applications, but they are eager to loan money to someone they think will succeed and become rich. Their biggest tool is the government which they constantly lobby for subsidies and for laws that hurt their competitors more than themselves.

2. 你说说富人用什么工具“计划”经济可以保证自己立于不败之地？银行家很多时候确实会拒绝发放贷款， 那是因为他们是希望放贷给那些有成功希望的人。富人和银行家最大的工具就是“政府”了， 他们经常为获取补助而游说政府，或游说政府制定有利于自己的法律，从而打击对手。

3. The economy consists of millions of individual voluntary transactions that are made every single day by ordinary people. Unless you can implement some form of force (using government), you won't have much control. 

3. 经济活动是由普通人每天自动进行的大量交易构成的。除非你能运用某种力量（比如政府），否则你根本就无法控制那些经济活动。

Without government backing, your best course of action to get rich is to provide a better cheaper service so that many more people will voluntarily choose to buy your product/service instead of your competitors.

你要致富而又没有权力背景，那你最好就老老实实地想办法提升自己的服务，降低自己的售价，这样子，愿意跟你购买产品/服务的人才变多，你才能竞赢对手。

  Apple didn't get rich from stealing money. Every transaction was voluntary because people wanted an iPod/iPhone. Now that they are rich, they still can't force anyone to buy an iPhone instead of a Samsung, HTC, or an old flip phone. They still need to innovate or eventually go out of business... or ask for government help if they can't keep producing things we want to buy.?

苹果公司的钱，那可不是靠偷窃来的，他的每个经济交易活动，都是自由自愿，没有半分强迫你去买他的iPod/iPhone。现在苹果公司钱多了，他们还是无法不让别人买三星、HTC或老古董翻盖机而要买自己公司的iPhone。他们还得不断创新，不然也会被踢出市场。 如果他们无法提供我们需要的产品，难道他们还能指望政府来帮他强买强卖？

nattygsbord
The rich can buy up politicians and corrupth the government and rig the system in their own favour. Their group of people owns the commanding hights of the economy, and often they have contrary interests to the low/middle classes, and also the country as a whole. So the private sector intrude upon the governmental and democratical sphere in order to bend rules in their own favour.

富人可以收买政客，腐蚀政府，按自己利益操控政治体系。他们是经济上层的操控者。然而他们的利益又经常跟底层/中产阶级有冲突的。
国家作为一个整体来运行，私人部门侵入政治层面，操控民主领域，就能使社会规则偏向自己的利益。

Furthermore does large companies like Wall mart require a high degree of central planning within the organization. So its totally fair to say its centrally planned economy. The rich plans everything, and for their own interest only.

而且，大型公司比如沃尔玛，在公司内部都需要成立的高程度的控制中心。所以，公平地说，这就是一种“计划”经济。富人“计划”一切，而且是为私利。

And Apple is an interesting example of a company taking government support and stealing scientific discoveries like GPD, SIRI, and the Internet and use them in their products, and then avoid paying taxes back to America. They are basicly just free riders and doesn't pay their fair share. So Apple don't mind transferring other peoples tax money to themselves for funding their research, but they doesn't contribute back to society in any fair proportion to how much they have gained from the research society have funded for them.

苹果公司是个非常好的例子。他骗取政府补助，攫取科学成果比如互联网，GPD,SIRI，用于自己的产品上面，然后又没有向美国纳税。基本上他们就是搭便车不买票，没有上交自己应付的那部分。苹果公司面不改色地把他人的纳税钱用于自己的产品研发，但是，这个社会供给了科技成果，他们只攫取而无回馈。

So it fair to call this another case of socialism for the rich

所以，公平地说，这就是另一种“社会主义致富”。

Elvir
Rich ? U.S.A debt is huge

美国富裕？ 一屁股债。

SchaeFeR X
Elvir GDP. Debt is not wealth. GDP determines a nations wealth. Our GDP Is largest and most influential GDP in on the planet. But it would only be such a way because of the capitalism established all those years ago

GDP，兄。债务没影响的，GDP才是一个国家的决定性财富。我们的GDP全球第一，GDP全球影响力第一。但是，这只会是这样一种方式，因为资本主制度是在很多年前就确立了。

Lord Faaaaaaaaarquaad
We make 3 or so trillion a year and we have maybe 30 trillion in debt we aren't that deep in debt, we just need to stop lobbying and useless social programs and it'll be paid off within 30 years yet we keep expanding them

我们的债务可能是30万亿美元，然而我们每年只能创造3万亿GDP. 我们不要陷入债务陷阱中，我们应该取缔各种游说，消减那些无用的社会项目，这样的话，我们在30年内就能还清债务。然而我们现在正在加扩债务。

Another one1 个月前
USA military strength will relinquish all debts

放心，美军会销账所有债。

The Artificial Society
What nonsense.  That's like saying Saudia Arabia is wealthy because they have a king.  It's all about resources

胡说八道。 就像我们说沙特富裕是因为他们有国王一样。 那是因为资源！！！！！！

Greg B
Africa has huge resources, yet is the poorest continent.  It takes the right mindset to become wealthy

非洲也有大量资源，最穷的还不是他？ 思想不正确，怎么可能富裕。

Alex W S Chan
They also have very bad geography and desserts and also isolated for some countries, Europe have navigation canals

非洲的地理位置非常不好，跟其他一些国家也隔绝，还有沙漠。欧洲有航运运河。

Sgt. Kilrain
I disagree. Japan has very limited resources and land mass, was bombed to rubble during the second world war and yet today is an economic powerhouse. Why? Free Enterprise, a functioning democracy and an educated populous.

我不同意。日本资源贫乏，国土狭小，二战后被炸成废墟，但是，现在它是个经济发动源。为什么？ 自由企业制度，民主运行良好，人民受教育程度高。

Alex W S Chan
Well actually Japan only kick started out of the rubbles of WW2 because USA was fighting a war in Korea and needed lots of products, thus Japan was revived by selling America large quantity of war stuff. This can be achieved without Free Enterprising, Functioning democracy, it still need an educated populous but countries don't need Free enterprise and Functional democracy to be rich.

实际上，日本只是在二战时被炸成废墟，过后，因为朝鲜战争爆发，美国需要大量的战略物资，日本靠提供大量的后勤物资而恢复活力。
这种成就，并不要求自由企业制度和民主运行良好。因此一个国家要富裕，是需要有受教育的人民，但那两项不是必需。

Sgt. Kilrain
Alex W S Chan- You honestly believe that state owned and operated factories could have seen the opportunity, then pumped out the products in sufficient quantity and quality to raise Japan out of the ashes? I'm extremely dubious!

你真的相信国有企业和国管工厂能瞅准机会？ 然后大量制造出足量优质的产品，把整个日本从废墟中拉起来？  我非常怀疑！

Alex W S Chan
Well the only difference between State owned factories and Private factories is just that one is controlled by the state and the other is not, other than that they don't really have much of a difference

国企和民企之间唯一的区别是所有者不同。除此之外，没什么本质区别。

Sgt. Kilrain
Alex W S Chan - I certainly will not pretend to be an expert in economics but didn't communist China only become a major economic player after they gave their Industry a great deal of autonomy?

我不会假装自己是个经济学家，但是，中国变成一个经济大玩家，难道不是在对民企放权之后吗？

TEverettReynolds
> It's all about resources.
Its more than that, the US had the right to trade with anyone, this goes back to the Revolutionary War.  Before that, the British would only trade with their own colonies, and same with the French, the Spanish and the Dutch.  It was called Mercantilism, and it prevented them from trading with other nations... all in the delusion that they didn't want to allow their gold to leave the country.
After 1776, the US would trade with anyone and everyone.  This allowed the US to prosper and trade with the best prices from whomever would offer it.

那是因为资源？
不止是这样。美国是有权利跟任何人做生意的，这可以往后追溯美国独立战争时代。 在那之前，英国只能跟自己的殖民地做贸易，法国，西班牙，荷兰，都是这样。这就是所谓的商业主义，它不允许越界贸易，当时，所有人都不愿让自己国家的黄金白银流出本国。
1776年后，美国愿意跟所有人进行贸易。这使得美国的贸易能对比价格，谁出价高，就跟谁交易。美国就此繁荣。

Sergej Miladinovic
Here's an example, but beforehand: WARNING: The following message contains content that people without a sense for satire may find disturbing.
Libya is being ruled by Gaddafi and is also ripe with oil...So America sees this and is all like: "Looks like Libya needs a few dozen packages of "Freedom" oh and while we're at it, let us liberate you of this foul blackened water..."

这里有个例子，但是，预先警告：下面的信息包含的内容可能干扰到还没能力欣赏讽刺的人。
卡扎菲统治下的利比亚也有优质油，美国看见了，然后，就“利比亚看起来需要几十包<自由>，哦，在这点上，让我们解放你于黑污潭水中...”

Lucian cahil
america has a lot of money because it has a lot of people. when you compare gdp per capita, many "socialist" countries are almost as rich or even richer.

美国有很多钱，是因为美国的人口多。当你比较人均GDP的时候，很多“社会主义”国家几乎跟美国一样富裕甚至更富裕。

Simon Khorolskiy
So that makes China the wealthiest country in the world.  Besides the fact that they all work in factories making 2 cents per hour

这么说，中国就是世界上最富裕的了。爽瘾过后，他们就得全部到厂里去，每小时挣2分钱。