中国人中思想保守的人占多少比例？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



bilibilihaha 于 1 天前 * 发表
If you use the western standard to meature the degree and the percentage of the conservative in China what's percentage you guess of people who are the conservative and the far right?

如果你用西方的标准来测量中国保守派的程度与比例，那你猜保守派和极右派各占多少比例？

Far right definition from wiki : “Claims that superior people should have greater rights than inferior people are often associated with the far-right.[10] The far-right has historically favored an elitist society based on its belief in the legitimacy of the rule of a supposed superior minority over the inferior masses”

维基百科上极右派的定义是：“声称高等人士应比劣等人民拥有更大权力的人常使人联想到极右分子。历史上极右派偏爱一种将其被认为是最优秀民族统治劣等民众这一信仰合法化的精英社会。“


-------------译者：北海西铜-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]ser_drake 13 指标 1 天前 
What do you define as far right in China? What's far left? As I see it there's very little definition to either of these because Chinese people can't vote or engage in politics as it is. Most Chinese seem to be apathetic and patriotic when commanded.

你如何定义在中国什么是“极右”？什么又是"极左"？在我看来关于这两者的解释少之又少，因为现状是中国老百姓不能投票也不能参与政治。多数中国人在被指挥时显得冷漠却又爱国。

[–]Rampaging_BunnyUnited States 2 指标 1 天前 
Where the hell did you get that. That’s ridiculous. Do some more research. Fiscal conservative or social conservative should be the questions you ask dummy

这你丫的是从哪儿看来的？简直荒谬之极。多做点研究。你要问的该是“财政保守主义或者社会保守主义”吧，呆瓜。

[–]ser_drake 2 指标 1 天前 
Dude. Don't be a dick. This person is asking an honest question and trying to learn more about political theory.

说话别跟个混球似的，伙计！人只是诚心提个问题，想多学点政治理论而已。

[–]Rampaging_BunnyUnited States -2 指标 1 天前 
Dude. I'll be a dick to kids trying to get us to do their homework I am a grown ass man and dislike pandering to people's deep-seated nationalistic whataboutism. Comparing apples to oranges here anyways so this is moot

伙计！对付一个想让我们帮他写作业的小屁孩，我还就做个混球了！我丫的可是个成年人，才不想迎合有些人根深蒂固的民族主义式"那么主义"思想。拿两个不相干的概念做比较，不管怎么看都是毫无意义的。

[–]ser_drake 2 指标 1 天前 
At least you're admitting being a dick.

至少你承认你是个混球啦。

[–]Rampaging_BunnyUnited States 1 指标 1 天前 
ROFL thanks for the downvotes guess we both are :P

哈哈哈，谢谢大家点的踩哦，看来我们都是混球呢 :P
（译注：ROFL=Roll On the Floor Laughing，笑到在地上打滚）

[–]bilibilihaha[S] 0 指标 1 天前 
Wikipedia

维基百科上查到的。

[–]aghicantthinkofaname 1 指标 1 天前 
That's a fine definition and all but when people say conservative they usually mean resistance to change

那个定义总体上没错，但当人们说到保守派时他们通常是指抵制变革（的人）。

[–]yxing 8 指标 1 天前 
It's hard to compare really. Certain aspects of conservatism like social moderation nationalism and capitalism are fairly prominent in Chinese culture. But in American conservatism there's also a focus on religion gun rights and a broad preference for a weak central government. These ideas are not at all a part of the Chinese mainstream.

实在是很难比较。保守主义的某些方面，如追求社会稳定、民族主义、资本主义等，在中国文化中都比较突出。但美国的保守主义还聚焦在宗教、持枪权以及广泛支持弱化的中央政府等。这些理念就完全不是中国主流思想的一部分。

[–]C-Jen 5 指标 1 天前 
That's a good point - Western (and particularly U.S.) conservatism is a collection of different traits and outlooks and it would be uncommon for Chinese people to exactly match them all.

说得好——西方（尤其是美国）保守主义是各种不同观念和特征的大集合，中国人要是能样样都完全匹配才不正常呢。

-------------译者：北海西铜-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]ting_bu_dongUnited States 8 指标 1 天前 
Well one possible way to measure might be based on personality say the Big Five.
http://biculturalism.ucr.edu/pdfs/Schmitt%20et%20al_JCCP2007.pdf
Scroll down to page 26 (198) for comparative charts.

嗯，或者可以用人格特征来作为衡量的依据——如借用“大五类人格理论”（the Big Five，包括“开放性”、“责任心”、“外向性”、“宜人性”、“情绪稳定性”）
http://biculturalism.ucr.edu/pdfs/Schmitt%20et%20al_JCCP2007.pdf



East Asians (in general) tend to be the lowest on Extroversion Agreeableness Conscientiousness and Openness levels and the highest on Neuroticism of any regional group.
Now how this relates to politics:

东亚人（整体上）相对于其它任何区域人群，表现出最低水平的外向性、宜人性、责任心和开放性；而情绪稳定性水平则最高。
现在来看它们与政治之间的联系：

https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/05/personality-and-polarisation
First conservatives and liberals do tend to differ in terms of personality. This is a well-known well-confirmed proposition in political psychology. Among the "big five" personality traits two are significantly associated with ideological sympathies. "Conscientiousness" is pretty much what it sounds like. Wikipedia helpfully notes that "Recently conscientiousness has been broken down further into two 'aspects': orderliness and industriousness the former which is associated with the desire to keep things organized and tidy and the latter which is associated more closely with productivity and work ethic." Conscientiousness is positively associated with conservatism. The other politically-relevant personality trait "openness to experience" is a bit harder to characterise but "involves active imagination aesthetic sensitivity attentiveness to inner feelings preference for variety and intellectual curiosity." Openness is positively associated with liberalism. It's worth adding that one recent study found that another of the big five personality traits "agreeableness" also relates to our ideological tendencies but this was detected only when agreeableness was broken down into two different components: "compassion" which leans left and "politeness" which leans right.

首先，保守主义者与自由主义者在人格上会表现出差异，这在政治心理学上是一个已被充分证明的、众所周知的命题。“大五类”人格特征中有两项与意识形态同理心有关：
——“责任心”基本上就如其字面意思所表达的那样。维基百科上的注解很有帮助：“近来，‘责任心’往往被进一步分解为两个‘层面’：‘条理性’和‘勤劳’。前一项与渴望保持事物有条有理收拾整齐有关；后一项则与生产效率和工作伦理更紧密关联。”责任心与保守主义是正相关的。
——另一项与政治有关的人格特征是“对经验的开放性”。它描述起来要困难些，但大概包含“积极的想象力、审美敏锐度、对内在感受的洞察力，对多样性的偏爱，以及求知欲”。开放性与自由主义是正相关的。
有必要补充一点：最新研究发现大五类人格中的另一项——“宜人性”——同样关乎我们的意识形态倾向，但其具体影响需将“宜人性”分解成两个不同成分：“同情心”代表左派倾向；“礼貌程度”则代表右派倾向。

So they're not open to experience so that's quite conservative. But they're also not very conscientious.
They're laid-back (chabuduo) conservatives maybe. Or possibly incurious liberals.
https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/05/personality-and-polarisation

所以，他们（东亚人）对经验缺乏开放性，这很"保守"；但他们同时又缺乏责任心。他们可能属于"散漫"（差不多）保守派，或者“漠不关心”式的自由派。

[–]AONomad 3 指标 1 天前 
So a mix of laissez-faire and Puritan? lol

所以说是自由放任主义和清教徒的混合体？哈哈。

[–]ting_bu_dongUnited States 3 指标 1 天前* 
"I don't care what you do as long as it isn't different."
Or maybe
"I care what you do but it isn't my problem."

像是“你做什么我不介意，只要你做的没什么不同。”又或许是，“你做什么我其实很介意，但那又不是我的问题。”

[–]bilibilihaha[S] 0 指标 1 天前 
one thing I don’t agree is that Chinese conscientious level actually higher than most countries. It s impossible to be the lowest.

有一点我无法认同：中国人的责任心水平实际上比大多数国家的人高。说他们（责任心水平）最低？这不可能。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]ting_bu_dongUnited States 3 指标 1 天前* 
“one thing I don’t agree is that Chinese conscientious level actually higher than most countries.”
It's not it's lower. Neuroticism is higher tho.
Edit: Or were you saying that you disagree that they are less conscientious?

“有一点我无法认同：中国人的责任心水平实际上比大多数国家的人高。”
他们不是最低，但是较低，他们情绪稳定性方面很高。
另注：还是说你不认为他们不负责任？

Hm. Well these are usually scored by asking questions like "I consider myself a hard worker" or "I am neat and tidy."
It's possible that someone from Asian might answer that "No not nearly hard enough! Not nearly tidy enough!" ... Regardless of how hard a worker or how tidy they really were.

嗯。判断这些人格水平的得分题通常都是这样的问题：“你觉得自己是个努力工作的人吗？”或“你觉得自己是个整齐有序的人吗？”有些亚洲人可能会这么回答，“不，我还不够努力！我还不够整齐有序！”.....问题是不会考虑到测题者的实际情况的，尽管他们有些人确实工作很努力，很整齐有序。

That is to say they might not self-score as conscientious because the society values conscientiousness so much.
Maybe?

这就是说，他们可能并不像自我测评得出的结论是个不负责任的人，因为社会很重视责任心。

I think it's actually far to say that Asian society values conscientiousness... But then again chabuduo culture shoddy workmanship etc. abound in actuality.
So uh maybe the culture is very conservative but the people in it aren't as much?
My head hurts now.

我觉得实际上大可说亚洲社会很重视责任心......但话又说回来，差不多文化、粗制滥造充好货等在现实生活中又比比皆是。所以，呃，也许（亚洲）文化是崇尚认真负责，但（亚洲人）却不一定是那么认真负责的？我开始头疼了。

Edit: So I just gave my wife the following questions from the Big Five test:
____3. Does a thorough job  2
____8. Can be somewhat careless 4 
____13. Is a reliable worker  5
____18. Tends to be disorg 1
____23. Tends to be lazy  2
____28. Perseveres until the task is finished  3 
____43. Is easily distracted 4

另注：所以我让我老婆做了以下“大五人格理论”的性格测试题结果：
____3. 工作做到全面彻底
____8.可能有些粗心
____13. 是个可靠的员工
____18. （不爱整齐），往往凌乱
____23. 往往很懒
____28. 坚持不懈直到任务完成
____43. 易受干扰

She scores herself as moderately conscientious. But what was interesting is that she said for two of the questions unprompted "(People) has to be."
This kinda backs up the idea that conscientious is drilled into them by society and they may feel they can't live up to that. Might help explain the neuroticism.
Edit edit: She said "nah people from my hometown are fucking lazy. Just play mahjong all day." She says she learned conscientiousness from working for Western companies actually.

她的得分显示出她还算是个有责任心的人。但有趣的是，她说其中有两个问题自发表明“（人）必须是”。这有点支撑这一观点，即社会灌输教育人们要认真负责，但他们可能觉得自己做不到这点。或许这就解释了为什么他们情绪稳定性水平高。
另注：我老婆说，“不（中国人并不是那么尽责），我家乡的人都懒得要死。整天都在打麻将。”她说她实际上是从外企那儿学会了要认真负责。

[–]ratsta 1 指标 1 天前 
Not to jump on any circle-jerk but I'd rate my (very small statistically insignificant) group of Chinese colleagues quite low in those questions. It's the spirit of 差不多. They'll be on the premises from dawn till dusk but it's hard to prove much work being done.

不想陷入一个（互说对方坏话）的恶性谈论里，但我的（极少数）中国同事，他们这些题的得分会挺低的。因为“差不多”精神，他们虽然从早待到晚，但没法证明他们有完成啥工作。

[–]bill_austinEuropean unx 4 指标 1 天前 
Americans are pretty conservative compare to the Europeans provincial even.

与欧洲人相比，即使是美国乡下人也更有责任心。

-------------译者：梧桐pasky-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]Reza_JafariRussia 4 指标 1 天前 
The CCP is frankly drifting very close to the far-right as many of their policies are copypasted from Mussolini. As most Chinese support Xi a majority would be far-right

坦白说，中共放任自己靠向极右派，好比他们的很多政策都是照搬墨索里尼（意大利法西斯首领及独裁者，掌权时间1922~1945）的。因此支持“席”的大多数群体是极右分子。

[–]shipiaozi 1 指标 19小时前 
In China what is "left" and what is "right" are very different. For long time CCP claim they are "left" and insist to do so even after they are no longer a real communism party. Because of this nationalism is mostly viewed as "left" instead of "alt-right" in China in contrast American "liberal" is viewed as "right" at least 5-15 years ago.

在中国何为“右翼”和“左翼”是完全不同的。长时间以来，中共声称自己是“左翼”并坚持“左翼”思想，即使后面他们已不再是真正意义上的GC主义政党了。所以他们的民族主义常被视为“左翼”而不是“另类右派”。与之相对，美国的“自由主义”至少在5-15年前还被视为“右翼”。

What is "rule of a supposed superior minority over the inferior masses"? Like the Leninism dogma of a superior "vanguard party" rule over the inferior masses? Marxism is still huge because everyone need to learn it in school. If you believe economic determinism as most Marxist it is not hard to draw the conclusion that Nazi party is far-left.

何为“被认为优秀的民族统治劣等民众”的思想呢？难道就像是列宁主义教条中优越的“先锋党”统治劣等的群众吗？马克思主义这一体系仍很庞大，因为每个人在学校都要学习它。如果你跟大多数马克思主义者一样深信经济决定论，那不难得出结论：纳粹党也是“极左派”。

On economic issues China is still far-left. Government still control everything important and forbid private company to compete with them maybe 2-3% Chinese think privatization could solve every problem because it worked so well but that is all.

中国在经济上依旧保持着“极左”的立场。政府仍控制着所有重要的部分，禁止私企与之竞争，可能只有2-3%的私企能与之竞争。中国认为私有化可以解决所有问题，只是因为这种制度在中国运作得很好，仅此而已。

On identity politics it is like white nationalism become the only mainstream political force in US so I would say 50-70% are far-right.

在身份政治（社会基础不在于阶级，而是种族、性别、年龄等）方面，中国就像美国以白人为政治力量主体一样，所以我认为中国人中有50-70％的人是极右派。

On religion issues China is an atheism country so maybe only 0.1-0.5% radical Christian could equal to American far-right.

在宗教方面，因为中国是一个无神论国家，所以也许只有0.1-0.5％的激进基督教徒可以和美国的“极右”派相提并论。

[–]sabbathareking 1 指标 1 天前 
Surprisingly high for a "communist" country. Free Enterprise and traditional values are held in high regard amongst most Chinese people. Things like drugs promiscuity debauchery etc are generally frowned upon here much like they are among conservative people in the west.

在中国这么一个“GC主义”国家这比例意外还挺高。自由企业和传统价值观受大多数中国人的高度关注。毒品，酒水情色产业等在中国人中并不受欢迎，就像西方的那些保守人士。

[–]sabbathareking 1 指标 22小时前 
Yah just like how middle Eastern countries are some of the most conservative in the world yet consume the most amount of porn in the world

是的，中国就像中东的一些国家，明明是最保守的国家之一，色情片的消费量却世界最高。

[–]Smirth 1 指标 14小时前 
to be fair.. It’s much harder to find a dirty hooker in the entire middle east than one block of china

说句公道话...在整个中东要想找到一个肮脏的妓女比在中国的一条街区里找更难。