reddit讨论一张朝鲜战争期间的空袭区域图 [美国媒体]

The Korean War Armistice was signed July 27, 1953. Here's a map showing aerial bombings during the war. [OC]

reddit讨论一张朝鲜战争期间的空袭区域图




[–]CMDR_Bacon
My grandfather was among the British troops who where sent to fight in the Korean war. He was a attached to an American engineering regiment as a minesweeper. He didn't tell me much about it, but what he did say was that winter was the worst he ever experienced. The ground was frozen as hard as concrete and bodies couldn't be burried. I'm told there's a picture of him on the boat back to his base in Hong Kong at the end of the war. He was skin and bones as he like many others had dysentery.

我的祖父是在朝鲜战争中被派去作战的英国军队中的一员。他加入了一个美国工程团当扫雷队员。对于这场战争他不愿说太多，但他说那个冬天是他所经历过最糟糕的冬天。地面冻得像混凝土一样硬，尸体没法埋葬。我看过一张他在战争结束后回香港基地的船上拍的照片。照片里的人都和他一样瘦的皮包骨且都患上了痢疾。

[–]FreezingHotCoffee
I wonder what effect the hard ground had on the mines?

我很好奇土地都被冻硬了那埋里面的地雷会怎样？

[–]ToastedGlass
This is a fantastic question. I’d assume it would make the blast more directional, as the explosion wouldn’t be able to expand the surrounding material as much, but that’s just a guess.

你这个问题很有想法。我会认为这样的地雷爆炸会对地上方向产生更多的冲击，同时会有更少的地雷破片对周围的物体造成伤害，以上都只是我的猜测而已。



[–]Novantico
Do you know of anyone being injured/killed by one?

那你看过有谁被地雷炸伤/炸死吗？

[–]Disembodied_Head
Yes but not during the winter. I know of some close calls but none involving injuries as a direct result. The real danger is during the Monsoon season of July through August when it never stops raining. The ground table becomes saturated with water and the mines pop out and float away. They then resettle and sink in a new place thereby making the existing minefield maps useless. Engineers and EOD spend a great deal of time and effort locating these mines and removing or remapping them. In the Infantry we employed directional above ground mines called "Claymore Mines" that we set up during ambush patrols then remove them when the patrol was completed. The DMZ as a whole is off limits to the civilian population so the military personnel are the ones in real danger.

有的，但不是在冬天。我遇到过有几次千钧一发的时候，但还好没有一次导致过直接受伤。最最危险的是在7月到8月的雨季期间，大雨不停地下，地面都被水浸透了，然后地雷突然冒出来，随波逐流。然后沉入一个新的地方，从而使现有的布雷区地图变得毫无用处。工程师和排雷兵花了大量的时间和精力去寻找这些地雷，并将它们移走或重新安置。作为步兵，我们在地面上使用定向地雷，称为“克莱莫地雷”，我们会在伏击巡逻队中设置这些地雷，然后在伏击完成时将它们清除。非军事区作为一个整体区域是禁止平民入内的，所以只有军事人员才是真正会受到危险的人。

[–]cloak13
I asked my grandfather about Korea when I was younger and he said "It's just like anywhere you know, just really cold." I later found out my grandmother still got some type of government aid check because he got frostbite in his foot.

我年轻的时候问过我爷爷朝鲜是什么样子的然后他说“和你去过其它地方都一样，只不过特别的冷。”后来我才知道我爷爷一直领取的政府补助金是因为他的脚在那场战争里被冻残了。

[–]jagua_haku
From the books I read, it was swamp-ass hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter. Not sure if that's Korea in general or just happened to be more extreme weather for those few years during the war

我看书上说，朝鲜那儿夏天又湿又热冬天又冷的要死。不知道是那地儿气候本来如此还是气候变暖导致极端气候变多。

[–]storminnormangorman
As far as I can see 100,000 British troops served in The Korean War- not sure that classifies as a few.
My uncle served there with The Argyll & Southern Highlanders. The only memory I have of any of his anecdotes is that he said something along the lines of, “If the RAF flew overhead the Chinese ducked for cover- if the Americans flew overhead EVERYBODY took cover”

据我所知朝鲜战争里参与作战的英国军队有十万人-跟其他国家比不知道算多还是算少。
我叔叔参加过那场战争。我就记得的他说“当英国空军飞过上空的时候只有中国人要找掩护，可要是美国空军飞到头上那所有人都得找掩护。”

[–]alekzander01
That's a joke the germans made in ww2 iirc

我没记错的话那是二战里德国人讲的笑话。

[–]urmumqueefing
I'm kind of surprised they could see the symbols on the wings - wouldn't jets be flying too fast to be able to tell?

飞机飞辣么高辣么快他们能看得清机翼上的符号吗？

[–]Colorado_Red
Vehicle identification based on shape is an important training point in the military. Airborn or otherwise.

一般都是靠外形来辨别是哪国的飞机，这是军事训练里很重要的一环。

[–]shishdem
Also sound is different

而且声音也不同

[–]VunderVeazel
I imagine they used different models. Sound and look different.

想一下天空上不同型号的飞机，看起来听起来都有差别。

[–]Tetracyclic
It's just a commonly repeated joke from the war.

这个战争笑话可是老掉牙了。

[–]PelagianEmpiricist
My buddies that were in Iraq and Afghanistan still tell that joke.

我兄弟在伊拉克和阿富汗还讲这笑话呢。

[–]urmumqueefing
Well, looks like the joke flew over my head, too.

哈哈，看来这笑话也从我头上飞过去了。



[–]arthurillusion
So it seems like some bombs were indeed dropped in China. My grandfather was sent to fight the war shortly after to fight your grandfathers, he lost most of his comrades, he said it was the toughest war he fought (of 5). Chinese soldiers' casualty was 10x higher than the UN armies, but Mao said they better fight in Korea and keep Korea as the buffer zone before the war zone spreads to China even further. People afraid it would become ww3 if not pushing the frontline away from China.

所以看起来中国地区确实有被轰炸过。我的爷爷被派遣到朝鲜去打你们的爷爷，他失去了他的大部分同志，他说这是他打过的最艰难的战争(他经历过5场战争)。中国士兵的伤亡数是联合国军队的十倍，但毛说我们最好把朝鲜当作缓冲区来结束这场战争，不然战争蔓延到中国事态就一发不可收拾了。要是战线真拉到中国，可能就要三战了。

[–]derleth
People afraid it would become ww3 if not pushing the frontline away from China.
It might have become WWIII had Truman not recalled MacArthur and relieved him of command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_Truman%27s_relief_of_General_Douglas_MacArthur

要是那时杜鲁门没把麦克阿瑟给撤下来可能就真三战了。

[–]Skystrike7
Wikipedia says he was in the military from 1903-1964. Wow.

维基里说麦克阿瑟在军队就职时间是1903-1964年。哇哦。

[–]Zakalwe_
His active service ended effectively in 1951ish, but he was a Field Marshall and they technically serve for life. Hence 1903-1964 on wikipedia. ~50 years is still pretty impressive, though you gotta be in army long time to become chief of staff.

他的实权在1951年被撤职的时候就没了，但作为一名将军从技术上说他是终生荣誉军人。所以维基上写的是1903-1964.但就算是50年也相当令人惊讶了。

[–]mathiasjk
Imagine what the world would have looked like today had Truman followed MacArthur's suggestions of using nukes against China.

想一想如果当初杜鲁门同意麦克阿瑟的核弹打击请求今天这个世界将会怎样。

[–]polerize
Nukes are great until the other side has them. Reason number one why there hasn’t been one used since World War Two.

核武器很棒，但当你的敌人也有就不棒了。这也是为什么二战之后全世界连一颗核弹都没被用过的原因。

[–]davy1jones
Very interesting thanks for the link. Just spent over 30 minutes reading about the relief of Arthur and the battle of Inchon. Im somewhat confused though, Truman relieved MacArthur because he wanted to use atomic bombs but did MacArthur have the power to launch American atomic bombs without the president’s consent? Why couldnt Truman just deny this and keep his military genius? Was there something else MacArthur was doing?

维基上记载的东西很有趣。我花了30多分钟阅读了麦克阿瑟的生平和仁川登陆战。我有点搞不懂为什么杜鲁门解除了麦克阿瑟的职务，只因为他想使用原子弹？但是麦克阿瑟有能力在没有总统同意的情况下发射美国的原子弹吗？为什么杜鲁门不能直接否决并保持他的职位呢？麦克阿瑟还做了什么别的事吗？



[–]yueguann
My grandfather fought in the Korean War as well for China just after he fought all the way from the northern part to the southern part during the war against Japan. He was given the choice to participate or just live his life when war was nearby. He chose to fight, but my grandmother chose to stay. They were both had a ‘higher’ rank in the military than most soldiers, idk if going to NK to aid them was voluntarily or not. However he went there with his military unit consisting out of a few hundred men, but only dozens came back, including himself.

我爷爷在抗日战争期间，抗日战争开始从北方一直打到南方，朝鲜战争时他也选择了为祖国浴血奋战，他可以选择不参加过自己的生活，但他还是选择战斗，不过我奶奶选择了留下来。他两在军队中的军衔都比大多数官兵都要高，我不知道去抗美援朝战争是不是自愿的。总之，他带着几百人的军队去了前线，最后只有几十人回来了，包括他自己。

[–]arthurillusion
My grandpa had a similar deal, he fought civil war and ww2 before going to Korea, then went to the north boarder for years as Russia became the biggest threat, then came back to be a military hospital director before retired. He considered the US soldiers to be most difficult to fight against, and S-Koreans to be the easiest. About 2/3 of the wedding guests attended my grandparents' wedding didn't walk out alive from the war.
He told my mom about one lost battle, thousands died and only a few initially survived which included himself. To make the way back, he wanted to run during the day and sleep among corpses at night, while the rest attempted to do the opposite. He disagreed with the rest and decided to split because US troops patrolled the field at night but only S-Koreans during day time. They would be dead on sight if seen by US patrols but could easily kill a way out against Koreans. Days later he made his way to the closest Chinese base, but he never saw the others.

我爷爷也有过类似的经历，他参加过国共内战和二战，然后去了朝鲜，回来后由于与俄罗斯关系恶化去了北方边界，他在那里待了很多年，然后在退役前回到了军队医院当了主任。他说美国士兵最难对付，而韩国士兵最容易对付。参加我爷爷奶奶婚礼的大约2/3的宾客没能从战争中生还。

他告诉我妈妈他参加的一场惨烈的败仗，数千人战死，只有他和少数人幸存下来。为了回去，他计划白天赶路，晚上睡在尸体中间，而其他人的打算则相反。他和其他人的意见不同，决定分开，因为美国军队在夜间巡逻，但白天只有韩国人巡逻。如果被美军巡逻队看到，必死无疑，但被韩国巡逻队看到很容易就能反杀。几天后，他回到了最近的部队，而其他人再也没能回来。

[–]Aaronvan
My uncle was a Marine at the Chosen Reservoir. His best story was pulling guard at an OP surrounded by dozens of dead Chinese. The temperatures plummeted that night and as the corpses froze solid, they occasionally sat up or shifted position. He said that freaked him out a bit.

我叔叔是一名海军朝鲜战争时他所属的部队部署在长今湖边。他最绝的经历是在数十名中国士兵的尸体中间站岗。那天晚上气温骤降，当尸体冻成固体时，它们突然会坐起来或变换姿势。他说那真的是有够吓人。

[–]LOLAHUGS
My marine grandfather was there too. He referred to the Frozen Chosen. I never know what he meant when he said the Chinese soldiers "froze while standing at attention," but I think this finally answers a question that I never got to ask.
He had some horrific memories of that war, and only shared a few of them.

我的海军爷爷也是在那。他提到过那个冰冷的长今湖。我都不知道他说的中国士兵“站着活活被冻僵”是什么意思，但我现在解开了这个这个多年前的疑惑。
关于那场战争他说的很少，现在想来那些记忆是有多么的恐怖。

[–]Joey8obby
My family is from the Chinese side. My grandfather was too young and great grandfather too ill to fight in the Korean War, but I was told by a passed down story that not only were the dead bodies freezing, but at a few points in the war the Chinese troops had to stay perfectly still in the dead of winter to minimize aircraft detection.
Normally this would be ok given modern supplies, but these soldiers literally ate cold raw potatoes and wore severely inadequate clothing. It was said that after holding position for days the soldiers would be ordered to move and they would discover that most of the battalions were dead, frozen solid, and some were alive but had legs that didn’t work anymore.
Not sure if there is evidence for this but sometimes Americans would launch an attack on a Chinese position, bombard and charge up to no resistance, to discover that all the soldiers fearlessly holding their ground were in fact all frozen solid

我是中国方的。抗美援朝那会儿我爷爷还太年轻而我太爷爷又得了病不能去打仗，但我还是听过些老人们代代相传的故事，不仅是尸体被冻僵，那时中国军队为了不被上空中的侦查机发现需要在一段时间内保持不动。

一般这对正常补给的军队来说是可以做到的，但是这些士兵吃的是生冷土豆，穿的是单薄的衣衫。据说，在坚守阵地几天后，士兵们再被命令行动起来时，发现大多数人都已经冻死了，有些士兵还活着，但他们的腿已经不能再动了。
我不确定是否有证据证明这一点，但当美国人会对中国的阵地发起攻击时，发现那些无畏地坚守在阵地上的士兵实际上都是冻结的尸体。