【二】鉴于历史上的蒙古王朝(元朝),难道蒙古不应该拥有中国绝大多部分领土么? [美国媒体]

数百年前蒙古统治过中国,可能维持了100年(或者还不到100年)。但在他们统治中国数千年前,中国人已经在这片土地上的绝大多数地方生活了数千年了。然,这数千年精力了各种各样的朝代。但毫无疑问的是,无论这些朝代的名字是什么,他们都是“中国”朝代......

Based on historical claims (Mongol dynasty), shouldn't Mongolia own most of China?

【二】鉴于历史上的蒙古王朝(元朝),难道蒙古不应该拥有中国绝大多部分领土么?





Kevin Geng
AnsweredJan 6
The Mongols did rule Chinahundreds of years ago, probably lasting 100 years (or less). But for thousandsof years before their ruling, the Chinese had lived on most of the land forthousands of years. Of course, these thousands of years have experienceddifferent dynasties. But no doubt, no matter what the name of the dynasties,they are "China" dynasties. They spoke the same languag as thecurrent Chinese and maintained the same culture.
If just for decades rule, theMongols can claim to own most of China. According the same logic, they can ownmost of the current Eurasian continent. Is not it ridiculous?

数百年前蒙古统治过中国,可能维持了100年(或者还不到100年)。但在他们统治中国数千年前,中国人已经在这片土地上的绝大多数地方生活了数千年了。
然,这数千年精力了各种各样的朝代。但毫无疑问的是,无论这些朝代的名字是什么,他们都是“中国”朝代。他们与当前中国人说同样的语言,维持着同样的文化。
如今仅仅数十年的统治,蒙古就能声索当今中国绝大部分的话。基于同样的逻辑,他们也能拥有欧亚大陆的绝大部分。这难道不荒谬吗?

Andrew Lee,Acupuncture and Eastern Medicine
AnsweredJul 10, 2017
So you need to understand Chinais not an ethnicity based country, it's a geographicly based nation. Basicallyif you live in this geographic area, you are Chinese. Why? Because China wasnever a country before in history, rather it was “middle kingdom" and manypurple happened to rule over it. So before it was mongol rule of China, thenHan rule of China, then Manchurian rule of China, then communist rule of China.It has nothing to do with race as never has.
So mongolian do own China as theyare part of communist China (like it or not)

你需要知道的是,中国不是一个基于种族为基础的建立起来的国家,而是一个以地理为基础的国家。
基本上,如果你胜过在这片地域,你就是中国人。为何?因为中国在其历史中从来都不是一个国家,倒宁愿看作是有众多朝代统治过的“中央王国”。
所以在蒙古统治中国之后,是汉人治下的中国,然后是满族治下的中国,然后是CCP治下的中国。种族在这里不起作用,就像是从来没有过。
所以蒙古人可以以成为GC中国的一部分来拥有中国(无论喜欢与否)。

Tsetsen Dashtseren, studied MBAin Finance at The University of Liverpool
AnsweredJan 26
Assumption that ‘According tohistorical claims’ is a dangerous one which normally leads to frictions only.If such tenet is allowed then any nation can claim whatever they want. Bordersare not permanent, they change over the time depending on rise of new powersand their influence. The most important tenet of international affairs is ‘Pactasund servanda’, i.e. agreements should be complied.

假设“自古以来”是一个只会导致摩擦的危险声明。
如果此类原则被允许,那么任何国家都可以想怎样就怎样声明了。
边境不是永恒的。国际事务中最重要的原则是“有约必守(Pacta suntservanda)”,
例如,协议需要得到遵守。

Boldnasan
AnsweredJan 30
Since china is claiming all theislands in the South China Sea, because based on history that they came therefirst, therefore applies "fist come, first serve" rule. Then shouldmongolia have all the land between mongolian south border to chinese GreatWall. Let's just be fair, so hand it over CHINA.

自中国声索整个南中国海的岛屿以来,因为基于历史他们第一个到这里,所以适用“先到先得”的规则。
那么,蒙古就应该得到蒙古以南直到长城的整片土地罗?所以公平点,中国,把土地交出来。

Xamba Yangzoim,Armchair General (2015-present)
AnsweredJan 7
Territory clams change all thetime, usually by wars in history. Mongol dynasty were defeated by Ming dynasty,so mongols can no longer own China today based on the result of war.

领土声明无时无刻不在发生变化,历来多是通过战争。蒙古王朝被明朝所击败,所以基于这场战争的结果,蒙古不再拥有今天的中国了。

Edward Wilson-Smythe
AnsweredJan 12
They lost control to successivesplinter groups and local Chinese rulers, with the final overthrow by the MingDynasty in 1368 and unification of most of China being the end of Mongolcontrol over China.

蒙古人失控,不断分裂成小团体,然后成了中国当地的统治者,之后在1368年被明朝推翻并统一中国大部分领土,成为蒙古结束后统治中国的朝代。

Bull Zhou, lives in China
AnsweredAug 22, 2015
Shouldyou ask another question: Why doesn't  Mongolia make that claim already?The rule of Yuan Dynasty lasted ONLY 99 years in China like 700 hundred yearsago. The funny thing about China is that: Foreign invaders might control Chinafor few hundred of years, then became part of it, namely, Mongolians andManchuria.

你应该问另外一个问题:为何蒙古还没有发出这样的声明?
在700年前的中国,元朝统治者只维持了99年的统治。
有趣的是:外国入侵者可能控制中国数百年时间,之后就成为中国的一部分了,也就是说,蒙古人和满族人是中国人。

Asher Coleman, studied at Monash University
AnsweredJun 15, 2015
Dependshow far back you look. If you consider any historical claim to be valid Greeceshould rule as far as India. Or alternatively the Turks should own all ofsouthern Europe. 
The Chinese have a legitimate claim to theirterritory by the only metric that has always remained. might.

蒙古声索中国领土?这取决于回溯多久前的历史。
如果你把任何历史性声明都视为有效的话,希腊的统治就该远至印度。或者土耳其就应该拥有整个南欧。
基于同样的标准,中国人对自己的土地也有合法的声明,这一直在提醒着人们,也许。

AlfredW Croucher, MA Qual Political Science& International Relations, Australian National University (1978)
AnsweredDec 3, 2015
Ifthe Mongolians were capable of just running Mongolia competently, they mightmake such a claim. But it is manifest that the Mongolians have had their dayand are a dying race. Any such claim would be laughable.

如果蒙古人过去有能力统治蒙古的话,他们可以提出这样的历史性声明。(译注:应该是指蒙古人连自己现在的国家都管理不好)
但很明显,蒙古人的时代是过去式,如今是一个垂死的种族。
任何此类声明都是可笑的。

Paul Denlinger, US_2016 = Germany_1933
Answered Jul 10, 2017
Originally Answered: Would Mongoliaclaim China's territories based on historical claims just like China?
Mongoliacan claim whatever it wants, but if it does not have the power to enforce itsclaim, what is the point in making it?

蒙古可以提出任何他们想要的声明,但如果没有实力来强力推行其声明,这声明的意义何在呢?

Commonsense
Answered Feb 25
sure, Mongolia canmake that claim just like everyone else who has enough power and influence totake and keep the land. But can they? That is the real question here.

声索中国领土?当然可以了。
蒙古可以提出这样的声明,就像任何拥有足够实力的、影响力的、拿走并守护这片土地的人一样。
但他们能吗?这才是真正的问题所在。

Jim George, bank consultant, with political background onboth sides
Answered Dec 22, 2015
Thereis no role for "should" in history.  It is or it is not.But Quara requires (to avoid collapse)additional words.  So blah, blah, blah.
I am not sure how fat this needs to be butshort answers can have value and I resent a machine forcing this crap.

历史没有“理应”这个词。只有是或不是。
但Quora要求答案必须再长点。所以扒拉扒拉扒拉……
我不知道需要多长,但言简意赅才是有价值的。
我厌恶这个强制要求你废话的机器(Quora)。

NareshTrivedi
Answered Jul 9, 2017
OriginallyAnswered: Would Mongoliaclaim China's territories based on historical claims just like China?
Mongoliaisn't a military or economic powerhouse.
They could only protect theirborders because of Russia.
So, they will not stir thehornet's nest known as imperialist communist China.
NareshTrivedi

蒙古不是一个精力旺盛的人
他们只能在俄国的保护下,守护自己的边境。
所以,他们不会搅马蜂窝的,毕竟它是一个帝国主义、GC主义的中国。

Anonymous
Answered Oct 4, 2017
Then, does that meanbased on historical Qing control of Mongolia, Mongolia should be reabsorbedback to China? Naive and convenient generalization is never helpful.

所以,这是不是意味着,基于历史上清朝控制过蒙古,蒙古理应重新成为中国的一部分?
幼稚的概括一无是处。

Paris Qian Sen, A Mainland Chinese
Answered Jan 15
Mongols ruled Chinafor 80 years, Chinese had ruled Mongolia for more than 300 years….
Paris Qian Sen

蒙古统治中国80年,而中国人统治了蒙古300年……

Sheng Liu, PhD Physics, University of Science and Technology of China(2017)
Answered Jan 6
Based on historicalclaims, Mongols should own most of China, most of India, most of central Asia,and even some part of Russia. And I think they have more reasons to claim backIndia/central Asia/Russia, since they controlled those places for centuries,but they only controlled China for less than one hundred years., right?

基于历史性声明,蒙古理应拥有中国大部、印度大部、中亚大部,甚至俄国一部分地区。
而且我认为相比于声索中国领土,他们有更多理由声索回印度/中亚/俄国,毕竟他们控制了上述地方数个世纪,但控制中国只有百年不到。
对吧?

Sam Eiji,love politics and law
Answered Dec 1, 2015
The answer is No
Only nation could make such claim , notindividual people simply because they share similar ethnicity 
Other american cant claimed the property ofbills gates, warren buffet simply because they are american.
Current Mongolia nation had more directlink with China than ancient Mongolia empire , Genghis khan in 12th century
Mongolia nation only exist because they secedefrom Republic of China with the help by Soviet Union.
Yuan dynasty is a chinese dynasty despite theruler are ethnic Mongol.
Other Mongol Khanate dont really recognizeYuan dynasty as Mongol because their capital base had shifted to Beijingthan  in the traditional homeland of mongol
Mongolia own the most of china is ahistorical fact.
Such historical dont invent "new historical claim " for mongolia nation.
After the fall of Yuan dynasty, Chinacontrol Mongolia instead in the subsequent dynasty, Qing .
Qing historical claim over Mongolia in 18th-19 th century had greater legitimacy than Mongolia claim in 13th century.
SamEiji

答案是,不行。
只有国家可以做出这样的声明,而非个人。因为他们都是一个种族。
其他美国人不能因为他们都是美国人,所以可以声索比尔盖茨、沃伦巴菲特特的财产。
当前蒙古国相比于古代蒙古帝国,与当前的中国关系反而更加紧密一些。
蒙古国只是因为他们在苏联帮助下从中华民国中分离出来,而得以存在的。
元朝是中国王朝,尽管统治者是蒙古人。

其他蒙古可汗并不真正认可元朝为蒙古,因为他们的首都迁往了北京而非蒙古的传统家乡。
事实上蒙古历史上拥有绝大部分中国领地。
这样的历史并不能让蒙古国发明“新的历史声明”。
在元朝覆灭之后,随后的清朝作为中国统治了蒙古。
相比于蒙古基于13世纪的统治的历史性声索,清朝对蒙古的基于18-19世纪的统治的历史性声索更具合法性。