为什么越南人喜爱美国讨厌中国？ [美国媒体]

Why do the Vietnamese love the US and dislike China?

为什么越南人喜爱美国讨厌中国？

Ang Chi Siang,
Vietnamese love America? Says who?
I am not in a position to say how much Vietnamese actually loves America. But I do know Vietnamese like Obama rather than America. I do know a lot of American vet return to Vietnam humbled - this adds to good impression; as compared to the other European who visited the country.
As for hating China, well, the Chinese and the Vietnamese are sworn enemies. I have never known them to be in good terms through history. The Vietnamese were consistently being conquered by the Chinese over the millennials.
The Vietnamese are always wary of the northern neighbour, and ex-master. Thousands of years of fights to gain independent from China is not something you can forget in a few generations. Look at all the street names in Vietnam, they were all named after generals and heros who stood up to the Chinese; Hai Ba Trung, Le Loi, Le Duan, ton Duc Thang, Trần Hưng Đạo, …
The Chinese always see the south neighbour as a rascal, especially on how Vietnam betrayed them after defeating the French and the American. You can read more by googling how the Chinese help organised the northern Vietnamese with the help of Chinese advisors after they gain much experience during the Korean war with the American.
=======
Some times people tend to think I tend to write more bias towards China. Some background here before people start to flame me. I am a keen student in Chinese history as well as Vietnamese history. I have travelled vastly in both China and Vietnam. I am a Singaporean Chinese but my wife is from Vietnam. I speak both languages fluently. I have lots of friends from both countries.

越南人爱美国？谁说的？
我不敢说越南人有多喜欢美国，但是我知道越南人确实喜欢奥巴马多过喜欢美国。我确实知道，美国越战老兵来到越南都很谦虚——这增加了双方良好的印象；与访问越南的其他欧洲人相比就更是如此了。

至于仇视中国呢，中国人和越南人是死对头。我从来不认为他们在历史上有过良好的关系。越南被中国征服占领了上千年。

越南人总是提防着这个北方邻居和前任主人。为了获得独立，历经了千年和中国的斗争，这不是几代人就可以忘记的。看看越南所有的街道名称，他们都是以抵抗中国人的将军和英雄的名字命名的：海霸忠，乐段，唐德昌，陈国峻，…

中国人总是认为这个南方邻国是个流氓，特别是在越南打败法国和美国之后是如何背叛他们的。你可以通过谷歌搜索越南是如何在历经过朝鲜战争得到了对付美国人的经验的中国顾问的帮助下组织北越人的。

有些时候，人们倾向于认为我倾向于写更多对中国有偏见的东西。但在你们群情汹涌之前先了解一下我的背景。我对中国历史和越南历史都很感兴趣。我也去过很多中国和越南的地方。我是新加坡人，但我妻子来自越南。我两种语言都能说得很流利。我也有很多来自两国的朋友。



Shaun Darragh
Two reasons: First, Vietnamese nationalists of the early 20th Century faced two challenges in their developing a more modern view of their history. The first was to square the Southeast Asian roots of their genetic base with the East Asian world view of their culture. In short, neither Korean nor Japanese cultures had adopted as much from China as the Vietnamese had. Second early nationalists saw a need to present Vietnamese history to the masses in a form that could convince them they too had the power to eject the French. In the words of Prof. Christopher Goscha (“Vietnam: A New History”) speaking of Phan Boi Chau, “in order to explain the sad state of their country in the present and imagine a new future, he (they) had to return to, indeed rethhink, the past.” (p. 100).
As various nationalists re-thought the past all of China’s military expeditions to Vietnam were seen as invasions, the majority of which the Vietnamese won. Overlooked was the fact that many had been sought by the Kings of Dai Viet and Dai Nam, seeking Chinese assistance against rebels, usurper princes, or in France’s case, foreigners. Brushed aside was Chinese military assistance against the French in 1884–85, likely because they had lost to the French. Yet, even after being ordered by their government to withdraw, some Chinese commanders disobeyed and fought on. With the defeat of China by the Japanese in Manchuria and Korea ten years later, the new star on the Asian horizon was obviously Japan. Ten years after that, Japan defeated Russia, the largest European nation in landmass.
What Japan had proven was that Asians could could modernize their countries by borrowing certain western institutions, while keeping their cultures intact. Many traveled to Japan to see the reality for itself, and seek aid in ejecting colonial powers. Some were astute enough to realize that while Japan was eager to engage with them, it had colonialist intentions of its own. In Vietnam’s case, some nationalists envisioned an alternative view. They saw the monarchy as the principal threat, and the French a minor one. They hoped to convince the French to assist Vietnam’s modernization by allowing the Vietnamese to develop a republic of their own. Elements of these two views, the revolutionary and the assimilationist, can be found in the two Vietnamese governments of the Indochina War. China was an important DRVN Ally, only to become an opponent once their foreign policies conflicted. And when they did, Vietnam could call upon a rich historiography to paint China as a constant threat to its independence.

原因有二：第一，20世纪初的越南民族主义者在发展更现代的历史观方面面临着两大挑战。第一个挑战是将其遗传的东南亚根源与其文化上的东亚世界观相结合。总之，韩国和日本的文化离都没有越南文化中有那么多来自中国。第二个挑战，早期民族主义者认为有必要以一种能够说服民众，他们也有能力驱逐法国人的方式向民众展示越南历史。用克里斯托弗·戈萨教授谈到潘伯洲(《越南：新历史》)的话说就是：“为了解释他们国家目前的悲惨状况，并为越南设想一个新的未来，他(他们)不得不回到或者说，重新思考越南的往昔。” (p. 100)

随着各种民族主义者重新思考过去，中国对越南的所有军事远征都被视为入侵，其中大多数是越南人获胜。却忽略了这样一个事实：大越和大南（越南的两个朝代）国王都曾寻求中国的援助，以对付叛乱分子、篡夺王位或抵御法国这些外国人。并且即使在他们的政府下令撤退后，一些中国指挥官仍然不服从越南国王的命令并继续战斗。十年后，随着日本人在满洲和朝鲜战胜中国，亚洲地平线上冉冉升起的新星显然是日本。又十年后，日本击败了俄罗斯，这个欧洲大陆上最大的国家。

日本证明了，亚洲人可以通过借用某些西方机构来实现国家现代化，同时保持他们的文化不变。许多越南人前往日本亲眼看到现实，并在驱逐殖民列强方面寻求日本的援助。其中有些人很精明，他们意识到，虽然日本渴望与他们接触，但它也有自己的殖民主义意图。在越南问题上，一些民族主义者提出了另一种观点。他们认为君主制是主要的威胁，而法国人则是次要的威胁。他们希望说服法国人通过允许越南人发展自己的共和国来帮助越南的现代化。这两种观点中的革命者和支持者，都可以在印度支那战争的两个越南政府中找到。中国是越南民主主义共和国的重要盟友，但是一旦他们的外交政策发生冲突，他们就成了对手。而当事情真的这么发生了的时候，越南利用丰富的史学把中国描绘成对其独立的持续威胁也就顺理成章了。



Tung Manh, Kyoto (2016-present)
I think Vietnamese allways have a feeling wary about China’s gov / Chinese actions . It’s a matter of trust and China ‘s soft power ! Due to dispute between China and Vietnam over territorial claims . Bad Merchants - bad goods also one of the causes .
With young vietnamese , all the traces of that terrible conflict with the u.s are disappearing . But like i said from above , current tensions in the sea make they feeling wary and angry and don’t get about China’s soft power . With china mind about Vietnam , they big - they don’t care about what little thinking then they will not get respect from Vietnamese .
You don’t need to look too far , compare to China , both Korea and Japan has its powerful soft power in vietnam .

我认为越南人对中国政府/中国的行动都有一种戒心。这是一个对中国的信任和软实力的问题！归因于中国和越南在领土主张上的争端。不良商家和劣质商品也是原因之一。

对于年轻的越南人来说，与美国发生的可怕冲突的痕迹正在消失。但就像我从上面说的，目前的海上紧张局势以及对中国软实力的不了解使他们对中国感到警惕和愤怒。考虑到中国对越南的看法，他们觉得他们很大，他们不在乎小小的越南的什么想法，所以他们得不到越南人民的尊重。

你不需要看得太远，与中国相比，韩国和日本在越南都有更强大的软实力。



Marvin Li
Back to 1979, there is a war which Chinese calls"对越自卫反击战（self-defense war against Vietnam）". And that cause 27000 Chinese soldiers’ death and 60000 Vietnam soldiers and 50000 Vietnam militias’ death. Besides this, comparing to China, US is more useful to Vietnam. But In the tide of globalization, They also had a great and remarkable cooperation.
That is my opinion, wish it could help you. And hope the 3 countries can Deepen cooperation and mutual trust.

早在1979年，就有一场中国称之为“对越自卫反击战”的战争。这导致了27000名中国士兵，60000名越南士兵和50000名越南民兵的死亡。此外，与中国相比，美国对越南更有帮助。但在全球化浪潮中，他们也有着伟大而非凡的合作。
这是我的观点，希望它对你有所帮助。并希望三国进一步深化合作与互信。

Gary Sands
Many Vietnamese are proud of their fighting spirit, which has driven off several foreign invaders, including the Chinese, French and Americans.
Yet of the three, the Chinese are viewed as a constant threat, as both countries claim the Paracel island chain, which China occupied in 1974, and the Spratley island chain, which is occupied by many countries, over which the Chinese fought the Vietnamese in 1988.
Most Vietnamese believe the American military will not return, the U.S. does not claim any Vietnamese territory, and many young Vietnamese want to study or work in the U.S.

许多越南人对他们的战斗精神感到自豪，他们的战斗精神赶走了包括中国人、法国人和美国人在内的几个外国侵略者。
然而，在这三个国家中，中国人被视为一个持续的威胁，因为两国都声称拥有1974年中国占领的西沙群岛和被许多国家占领的南沙群岛。中国和越南在1988年还为之发生了战斗。

另一方面，大多数越南人认为美军不会返回越南，美国也不主张任何越南领土，许多年轻的越南人都希望在美国学习或工作。

NL HA
In my opinion, at present, China is still taking some actions that we consider threatening Vietnam's sovereignty, but the US does not. It is so simple, right xD? And if only because of historical contradictions between the two countries, we will not do so. However, we do not dislike any individuals who are Chinese. We just dislike.
It's confusing, is not it? (It's hard to explain to you exactly how I feel :D)
But in short, we always friendly everyone from different countries, whether China or America, we will also warmly welcome them. Unless they really do bad things like littering too much, stealing, ....
So love or dislike/hate is up to each of us.
<3

在我看来，目前中国仍在采取一些我们认为威胁越南主权的行动，但美国却没有采取这种行动。这显而易见，不是吗xD? 如果只是因为两国之间的历史矛盾，我们不会如此。然而，我们并不讨厌任何中国人。我们只是不喜欢。

很让人困惑，不是吗？(很难向你解释我的真实感受:D)

但总之，无论是中美两国，我们对来自不同国家的每一个人都是友好的，我们也会热烈欢迎他们。除非他们真的去做坏事，比如乱扔垃圾，偷东西......

所以爱或不喜欢/憎恨取决于我们每个人。
<3



Pham Nito
Because of what you sound from portray Vietnamese hate China but prefer America. And it is true that there is a propaganda in Vietnam that describes China as China describe Japan to arouse patriot. But if you travel Vietnam, most people are welcoming and warm-hearted.

因为你是从那些讨厌中国喜欢美国的人那里听到这种说法的。但是越南确实也存在着像中国描绘日本那样描绘中国的宣传，以唤起爱国者。但如果你去越南旅游，大多数人都是热情好客的。

Le Hao
Then you haven’t seen the police running around Ho Chi Minh City trying to make people stop rallying against Xi Jinping’s visit on November 5th last year. Or the same situation in Ha Noi. I remember they came up with some nasty nicknames for President Xi. It is the government who keeps saying that “China is our long term friend and will remain to be. Don’t give in to foreign propaganda and disturb our internal peace.”
And yet, when Obama arrived, people did gather, but not to tell him to go home and call him names, but to welcome him warmly and wholeheartedly. I don’t know, sounds like they really do prefer the USA despite the fact that Vietnam War is taught over and over in school.

你是没有看到警察为了平息抗议中国访问越南的在胡志明市的抗议而跑来跑去吗？在河内也一样，我记得他们给中国起了一下下流的绰号。虽然这个政府一直在说：“中国是我们的长期朋友，并将继续是我们的朋友。不要屈服于外国的宣传，扰乱我们的内部和平。”

然而，当奥巴马到来的时候，人们也聚集在一起，但不是去喊他的名字叫他滚回去，而是热情地、全心全意地欢迎他。我不知道，但听起来他们真的很喜欢美国，尽管越南战争在学校里一遍又一遍地被教导。



Frank Popa
There must be something in human nature that makes us like people that we beat. The US beats Germany and Japan in WW2 and does everything it can afterwards to rebuild them. The Vietnamese beat the US in the war of American destruction and love us now.

这肯定是人性中人们往往喜欢那些被自己击败的人的因素所致。美国在第二次世界大战中击败了德国和日本，并在战后尽一切努力重建它们。但越南人在美国的毁灭战争中打败了美国，并且现在爱上了我们。

Đất Nước Chúng Ta, worker
I hate both two, china conquered us by culture, but america used the force of military.

两个我都讨厌，中国用文化征服我们，美国用军事。

Jacques Văn Khải
You think Vietnamese would easily forget what happened to Vietnam long ago in the history about China’s invasions and conquests of Vietnam?
It is like how Koreans are feeling. They do not forget it. Even they hate China more than they love the United States. Koreans even hate China more than Vietnamese, why? They do know because of China, Korea was divided and still being divided. In Europe, Russia is hated by majority of Poles and Romanians, and now, Georgians and Ukrainians, why? Do they forget history?
I am sorry man. But I experience everytime and this is very common. Because when they have to border with powerful and stronger neighbor, they realize they will have to fight thousand times with them. Vietnam is like that.
On the other side, the United States is no good guy either. However, they are too far from those countries like Vietnam or Korea, and their present there, of course, is just temporary. It less threatens comparing to China, though.
Since the U.S. is too far, Vietnam trusts the Americans like trusts a friend. This is why they love America, and hate China.
Of course do not get it wrong. None of Vietnamese dislike Chinese calligraphy, films and the culture. But for Vietnamese, the Chinese imperialism and its policy will remain a problem for Vietnam.

你认为越南人会轻易忘记很久以前中国入侵和征服越南的历史上对越南干了什么吗？

这就像韩国人的感受。他们不会忘记的。甚至他们也比爱美国更恨中国。韩国人甚至比越南人更恨中国，为什么？他们知道，因为中国，韩国才是分裂的，并且现在仍然是分裂的。在欧洲，俄罗斯被大多数波兰人和罗马尼亚人所憎恨，以及现在被格鲁吉亚人和乌克兰人所憎恨，为什么？他们会忘记历史吗？

我很抱歉，伙计。但我每次都会经历，这很常见。因为当他们不得不与强大而庞大的邻居交界时，他们意识到他们将不得不与他们进行千千万万次的战斗。越南就是这样。

另一方面，美国也不是好人。然而，他们离越南或韩国这样的国家太远了，他们现在在那里，当然只是暂时的。不过，与中国相比，它的威胁要小一些。

因为美国太远了，越南就像信任朋友一样信任美国人。这就是为什么他们爱美国，恨中国。
当然不要搞错了。没有一个越南人不喜欢中国的书法、电影和文化。但对越南人来说，中国帝国主义及其政策仍然是越南的心头之患。