嘿，霍金认为世上没有上帝，你知道吗？（一） [美国媒体]

作者Tom McKay
2018.10.17
阅读量110.4K
评论373



In what would be somewhat of a revelation had the late theoretical physicist and cosmologist Stephen Hawking not been one of the world’s most famous atheists—and spoken or written on the topic on numerous occasions—media outlets are playing up that Hawking’s final book Brief Answers to the Big Questions contains the assertion that there is no God.

在一些披露了已故的理论物理学家和宇宙学家史蒂芬霍金事迹里面可以看出，他并不是世上最有名的无神论者之一。但现在很多场合都会就这个话题进行讨论和写作，-媒体正大肆炒作这个梗。霍金最后一本书, 里面是他对一些重大问题进行了简短答复，包括这个世上没有上帝的主张。



Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by ‘we would know the mind of God’ is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn’t. I’m an atheist.
在我们认识科学之前，都自然而然的认为是上帝创造了宇宙。但现在科学提供了更有说服力的解释。我说的'我们会收到上帝之旨意'意味着：如果上帝存在，我们会知道上帝所知道的一切，然而上帝并不存在。我是一个无神论者。

So this is not exactly new information. It would be way more surprising if Hawking had a deathbed conversion to faith, as some hoax articles claimed earlier this year.

所以这条消息并不是新闻。如果像今年早前一些骗人文章声称的那般，传出霍金在临终之前突然转变了信仰，那也许才叫有爆炸性。



Hawking’s atheism may ruffle some feathers with true believers, even though he was never a particularly militant one along the lines of evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins. But as far as scientific controversies go, Hawking’s career is rich with ones having more to do with almighty physical forces than spiritual ones. For example, take his gambles that black holes destroy information, thus seemingly violating the current understanding of quantum mechanics, or that the Higgs boson could never be found. When research was published throwing the weight of the evidence against his position, Hawking conceded both bets.

霍金的无神论可能会给真正的宗教信徒带来一丝骚动，但他从未像进化论生物学家理查德·道金斯那样成为特殊的激进分子。就科学争议方面，他是一个职业生涯遵循全能的物理规律多过精神力的人。例如，他拿黑洞摧毁信息理论打赌，因该理论违反了目前的对量子力学理论，或者永远不会发现希格斯玻色子。当发表的研究报告公布了和他立场对立的重量级证据时，霍金两次打赌都爽快认输了。


TheStripelessTiger
No one gives a shit who is an atheist or not.

没人在乎谁是不是无神论者

Kspraydad
This is false

@TheStripelessTiger 错



Svend
Sadly, not the case as in this from 2009 which is one of my favourite pieces. Not about religion but a distinct lack of knowledge of the subject matter
https://www.theguardian.com/poli ... -hawking-paul-rowen
So Barack Obama is facing the fight of his life (another one) as he attempts to reform the US healthcare system. The “special interests” – doctors, healthcare companies – don’t like it. The “birthers” – crazy types who hope to prove he is not American – smell blood. The danger, says the Investor’s Business Daily, is that he borrows too much from the UK. “The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary. The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script … People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.” We say his life is far from worthless, as they do at Addenbrooke’s hospital, Cambridge, where Professor Hawking, who has motor neurone disease, was treated for chest problems in April. As indeed does he. “I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS,” he told us. “I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.” Something here is worthless. And it’s not him.
Glossing over the fact Professor Hawking was British and was diagnosed and treated by the NHS.
If your going to be stupid, go full stupid.

@MichaelW 可悲的是，在我09年最喜欢的一篇报道里面并不是这样的。对这件事的关注不在乎宗教，在乎明显缺乏区别对待的认知。
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/aug/12/birthers-stephen-hawking-paul-rowen
/巴拉克•奥巴马正面临人生中的另外一场斗争，试图改革美国的医疗保健体系 。 “享专有利益”的医生，医疗保健公司不喜欢它。 “反马者” - 那种疯狂地想证明奥巴马不是美国人的人 - 闻到了鲜血。投资者商业日报称，失败的危险在于他从英国借了太多钱。 “像英国这样控制医用成本的国家是用限额分配方式，要想能康复，必须给开个金手指。死在等待名单和被否定名单上的人的故事加起来像读恐怖电影剧本.....像史蒂芬霍金这样的科学家本在英国根本没有机会， 英国国家医疗服务中心会说这个聪明人的生命，因为他的身体残疾基本上一文不值。“我们认为他的生命意义重大，就像他们在剑桥的阿登布鲁克医院所做的那样，患有运动神经元疾病的霍金教授在4月份接受了胸部疾病的治疗，确实如此。 “如果不是国家医疗服务中心，我今天不会在这里，”他告诉我们。 “我收到了大量高质的治疗，没有这些治疗，我无法活下来。”如果那人不是霍金，某事在这里毫无意义/
淡化掉霍金教授是英国人理应被国家医疗服务中心诊断和治疗的事实。
如果你愿意被愚弄，那就永远别醒。



rogueIndy
Karma is toxic as fuck. It’s the belief that anyone who suffers somehow deserves it, and is used to justify caste systems and the like. It’s the *lepers equals sinners* mentality, turned up to 11. Fuck karma.

@themadnessofitall因果报应真是他妈有毒, 那是一种所有人的遭遇都某种程度上都是应得的信念，常被用于维护种姓制度和其他类似东西，类似于“得了麻风病就是有罪”的心态，用我百分之一百一十的力气，艹因果报应。

JimJimBob
Karma, like religion isn’t real. Take a monster like Jerry Sandusky. When he was found guilty, people said “That’s karma!” No. That was justice. Karma exists for the same reason religion exists. To control people. Most of us live our lives to be good but there is a small percentage that does not do so. What happens to them in the end is not karma.

@themadnessofitall， 报应就像宗教信仰一样虚幻，看看这个可怕的杰里桑达斯基，当他被揭露罪行的时候，大家都说这是报应！ 不，那是法律制裁。因果报应的存在理由同样是宗教存在的理由，去管制百姓。我们其中大部分都用向善的方式活着，有小部分的人不这么做，他们的结局并不是报应使然。（橄榄队教练，15年性侵至少10个男童，最大才13岁，曾被助教撞见，但是校方帮忙隐瞒了9年 68岁入狱监禁60年 译注）

Poetjunkie
I was raised a southern Baptist and one thing that always stuck with me from the time I was a kid until this very moment is: Why are we supposed to matter?
We (I) was raised to believe that the universe, THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, was here for me... revolves around me, and us, and was created with meaning FOR us, and if I just ask nicely enough, just care enough, I can ask the Almighty above for things that run counter to how the universe works. And if I prayed enough? God would answer. I was taught that I was blessed with free will, and that God is an all-knowing, all-loving being.... and yet if I didn’t make the exact pre-approved choices by a book written (and rerererere-written) over the last 2,000 years, then I would forever be thrown into a pit of hellfire, to suffer for all eternity. I have free will, only as long as that will bends the knee to a violent, sexist, racist, homophobic, antiscience set of philosophies...
I remember being about ten years old, and asking my Sunday school teacher, “Why did God give my Mom cancer and send my brother to prison or make my Dad blind?” (All true things) And she just looked at me and said, “Because God works in mysterious ways, and it’s not for us to understand. You just have to pray on it and God will answer you in time.”
I knew I was gay when I was around eight years old, and admitted it to my youth pastor when I was 14. On his advice, I entered into “prayer therapy”, which I now understand to be conversion therapy. For nearly two years, I met with the head of my church, the head of my youth program, and a rolling contingent of “prayer partners” for hours at a time, three days a week... hours and hours of my childhood spent in cramped rooms being taught that my gaynes was evil, that I could never truly understand my sins because I was unwittingly and willingly giving in to the will of Satan because of the homosexual thoughts in my head. I was a virgin, terrified of who I thought I was, and I said to my pastor, “But what if I never have sex with another man? I’m a virgin, so why is it a sin if I never have sex?”
He looked at me and shook his head, saying, “That’s still the sin. Who you are in your heart will always be a lie and a sin against what God commands.” I still have the Bible I grew up with (plus three others, a Quran, an intro version to the Talmud, etc).... my Bible is FILLED with highlighter marks, underlined and circled pssages, and huuundreds of sticky notes where I can flip through, seeing the person I was 20+ years ago trying so, so desperately to understand who they were, and why they were afflicted with such a “sickness of the soul”, as my pastor loved to say. I spent so many years being taught to hate myself, falling asleep every night knowing in my heart I was going to Hell, praying I’d die in my sleep and thinking suicide was what God demanded of me because of how deeply I’d not only shame myself, but my family.
And I still remember the last time I went to church. I was listening to the music and sermon on Easter service, looking at the delerious displays of joyful faith around me, and the thought just hit me: Why? Why was I participating in something that caused me so much hurt and harm? Why was I listening to the hateful, hateful rhetoric that not only my pastor espoused, but that the people claiming to be “lambs” around me shouted and snarled as well? I was being taught to hate, to judge, to embrace shame at something I had felt since before I even had a sex drive, while also being told that that was how true believers acted. During my conversion sessions, I’d ask why, and my prayer partners would speak to me as though I’d thrown acid on their Mothers. I was a kid, and I only wanted to know why the history books I read contradicted EVERYTHING I had been raised to believe; why books from other religions hated me and the religion I was raised in; why God commanded genocide and child murder and child rape and sacrifice and punishing of women...... I started asking why, and I was punished. I was taught that I’d burn forever. I was told by other teachers at other churches I attended (to try and find a new home) that Satan put the question of Why in my head, and that only those who followed Satan would question so deeply.
It broke me. Words, stories, books, have been my passion since I was five years old. I read EVERYTHING, and I love what words can teach; their history and power... and the day I quoted a passage to my pastor in a conversion session, and he looked me in the eyes and said, “You don’t understand what you’re reading. The Devil is leading you to these thoughts,” something in me broke. And before you say, “But you just had a bad pastor”, just... don’t. I cast my net wide, and I’ve yet to find a truly compassionate person of faith willing to set aside what they already believe in order to understand the existence of another person. Please don’t get me wrong, people of faith: I’m sure you’re kind, to a point. I’m sure you’re understanding... to a point. But as soon as that point causes you to truly brush up against your religion in an uncomfortable way, it seems like so many fall back into the comforting arms of, “Well, I don’t have to understand everything, I just have to believe.”
I know this post is way, way too long, but my family has been ripped to shreds by its own religion. I look at the state America is in and every. single. time. the problems originate in religion. I read history books, look at the world around me, and can not help but see that almost every single issue is because of people’s personal faith. I’ve never been comforted by the idea of a god or a religious dogma or a sense that “this all has to mean something”. Because why should any of this mean something? The clouds and the trees and the ants don’t cry out for a god, and they don’t seem to demand faith... they just simply are. Jupiter keeps spinning the the asteroids spin in their orbits. Why isn’t existence enough? Why isn’t this planet and this one life enough? Teligion is codified greed, and we’ve all been raised to believe it’s the be all and end all.
I call shenanigans. ❤️

我从小在南浸信会{最大的基督新教会，属于清教徒。译注}长大，有一件事从小到大每时每刻都困扰着我：为什么我们应该在乎信不信教？
我们被教育着去相信世界，整个世界，就在我的身边。。。环绕着我和我们，是为了我们而创造的。如果我的询问够恰当，够小心敬慎，我可以问全能的神关于与世界运转相驳的事情。如果我祈祷得够多，上帝会给我答复，人家教导我说上帝赐予我自由的意志，上帝是一个全知，博爱的存在，如果我没有按照在过去2000年里撰写和重新撰写出来的圣经里面预先批准的选择行事，我会被永远扔在地狱火坑里面受苦受难。我有自由意志，但是要屈服于暴力，性歧视，种族主义，同性恋，反科学哲学。。。

我记得大概长到十岁的时候我问主日学校老师{基督教教会为了向儿童灌输宗教思想，在星期天开办的儿童班 译注}“为什么上帝给我妈妈癌症，送我哥哥去监狱，让我爸爸失明？”（上面说的都是真实事迹）她只是看着我说:"因为上帝做事方式很神秘，并非人人都能够理解，你可以就这件事祈祷下，上帝会及时答复你的。”

在大概8岁的时候我知道了自己是男同性恋。14岁那年跟我的青年教导牧师承认了这事。在他的建议下，我进行了“祈祷疗法”， 我现在理解为转变疗法{通过祷告，灌输思想，把同性恋转化为异性恋 译注。}将近两年的时间，我和教会的负责人会面，和青年项目的负责人会面，和“祷告伙伴”代表轮流会面，每天几小时，每周三天......我的童年时光是在狭窄的房间里度过的，每时每刻洗脑：搞基是邪恶的，因为我头脑中的同性恋思想，我永远无法真正理解自己犯下的罪，因为我无意识并且心甘情愿地臣服于撒旦的意志。 当时我还是个处，被灌输的东西吓坏了，我对牧师说：“但如果我从未与另一个男人发生性关系怎么办？ 我是处男，所以我从未发生过性行为，为什么会是犯罪呢？

他看着我，摇了摇头，说：“这仍然是罪。你内心深处那个真实的你，反抗着上帝的指示，永远都是欺骗上帝的谎言和罪过。” 我现还保存着打小陪伴的圣经（加上另外三个，古兰经，塔木德经的介绍版等）......我的圣经充满了荧光笔标记，带下划线和带圆圈的短句，以及几百上千方便我翻阅的便笺，看着20多年前的那个我如此努力，如此拼命地想去了解牧师总喜欢拿来当教条的那些人是谁，以及为什么他们像我过去那样，受到这种“灵魂疾病”的折磨。。。我花了这么多年的时间被洗脑着要憎恨自己，每天晚上睡觉前心知自己死后要去见地狱的，祈祷着自己想在睡梦中死去，并且认为自杀是上帝要求我的，因为我不仅是自己，而且是我家族的最大的耻辱。

我还记得最后一次去教堂的时候。我正在听复活节的音乐和布道，看着我周围充斥着欢乐的信念的表演感到憎恶，这个想法让我顿悟：为什么？为什么我参与了一些让我如此伤害和疼痛的事情？我为什么要听那些不仅是牧师在主张，还有那些自称是“羊羔”的人也在喊叫和咆哮的可恶至极言论？ 我被教导着要憎恨，评判，在我甚至没有过性行为之前要对自己的情感羞耻，其他信徒也这么行事的话讲得有多真。在我被转化过程中，一旦我问为什么，一起祷告的伙伴会像我给他们妈妈泼硫酸那般跟我讲话{我猜是要大家手扶起每个人的手为一个圈一起祷告，那样的祷告力量才够大，会被上帝听到。所以为了掰直这个人，会有很多教友过去帮忙 译注}。我还是个孩子，我只想知道为什么我读过的历史书与我打小被教导去信仰的东西互相矛盾; 为什么来自其他宗教的书籍恨我和养我的宗教; 为什么上帝指示要种族灭绝，谋杀和强奸儿童，牺牲和惩罚妇女......我开始去问为什么，然后我就受到了惩罚。我被训斥说我会永远受焚烧之苦。其他我尝试去加入的教会的老师告诉我（我曾试图找到一个新的家），是撒旦把这些问题塞进了我的脑袋，只有那些忠诚跟随撒旦的人才会如此提出质疑。

这让我崩溃。从我五岁开始，文字，故事，书籍激励着我。我什么都读，我喜欢单词的意义; 他们的历史和力量......但在转化会议那天我引用了一段话问了牧师，他看着我的眼睛说：“你不明白你在读什么。是魔鬼引导你去思考这些 .“ 那时我身上的某些东西就支离破碎了。在你们说“你只是遭遇了一个坏牧师”之前，“只是”......别这么说。我扩大了我的关系网，目前还没能找到一个真正富有同情心的人，愿意放下他们已经信仰的东西，去了解另一个人的存在。请不要误解我，有信仰的人：我确信你良善，某种程度上。我确信你理解了......某种程度上。但是，光凭这一点，无法让你以一种不舒服的方式真正地反对你的宗教，似乎很多人还会回到舒服的怀抱中，“好吧，我不必理解一切，我只需要相信“。
我知道这篇故事太长了，但是我的家庭被自己的宗教信仰撕成碎片。 我看着美国现在的处境。每时每刻的问题都源于宗教。 我阅遍史书，环顾周遭，禁不住发现几乎每一个问题都源自人们的个人信仰。 我从来没有被上帝的意旨，宗教教条或“这一切都是命”的感觉所安慰过。



D. Walker
“So… altogether I can’t believe the special stories that’ve been made up about our relationship to the universe at large because... they seem to be…
...too simple... too connected... Too local! Too provincial!
The Earth! ‘He’ came to the earth! One of the aspects God came to the earth, mind you! And look at what’s out there! How can you…?
It isn’t in proportion!”
- Richard Feynman, 1981, The Pleasure of Finding Things Out

@Poetjunkie“嗯...总而言之，我无法相信关于我们与宇宙关系的那些特殊故事，因为......它们似乎......太简单......太有联系......太地球化！ 太狭隘了！
地球！ '他'来到了地球！ 一个位面神降临到地球，注意！ 看看那里有多厉害！ 你怎么能…？
极不相称！”（宇宙的神和地球的人类的层次差太多了 译注）
- 理查德费曼，1981年《发现的乐趣》

NachOverdose
Ditto!
I love how well you summed it up with “I call shenanigans.”

@Poetjunkie同上！，好爱你用“我称之为恶作剧”来总结它

500 Days of Alexandria
Stupid theists, show me the proof!!
I don’t get why other people aren’t as smart as me.

愚蠢的有神论者，告诉我证据！我不明白为什么其他人还不如我聪明。

Saitamago
The burden of proof is on theists who make the assertion for the existence of gods in general and specific gods in particular.

@500 Days of Alexandria 举证责任在于那些通常主张神和特别某些神的存有神论者。



eyemajeenyus
Makes sense.

有道理

crazy among the insane
Not after you read my explanation elsewhere in this thread.
Challenge yourself.

@eyemajeenyus 不要读了我和其他人的评语才觉得有道理。锻炼自己思考

UiRgIl（审核中）
Mr. Hawking unconfirmed a metaphysical proposition, which invalidates scientific thinking.
Which god? There are many.
And to “sort of” answer that question we should know what is god(likeness) to seek it in objects of study and we can’t for the moment.
So, he was wrong because his reasoning was wrong.

霍金先生说了个未经证实一个形而上学的命题，有驳科学思维。 例如哪位神？ 有许多个神。
并且为了“回答”那个问题我们应该找个与上帝相似研究对象研究他，我们现在还没办法做到。
所以，他错了，他的推理是错误的。

TommyKar（审核中）
Einstein didn't believe in God either.

爱因斯坦也不信神。

Someone Else（审核中）
I guess the joke will be on him when he burns in hell.

我猜他到地狱受焚刑的时候，就活该了



schnapster （审核中）
Imagine on almost every street corner there could labs dedicated to improving the quality of life rather than giving it false hope......

想象一下，每个街角都有实验室帮助提高生活质量，而不是给人错误的希望......