为什么中东不信任美国 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：传亮教主-审核者：珂求一生------------



When the United States fights its wars in the Middle East it has a nasty habit of recruiting local forces as proxies and then jettisoning them when the going gets tough or regional politics intervene.

当美国在中东打仗时，有个招募当地部队作为代理并且当事情变得棘手或区域政治干预时就会抛弃他们的坏习惯。

This pattern of “seduction and abandonment” is one of our least endearing characteristics. It’s one reason the United States is mistrusted in the Middle East. We don’t stick by the people who take risks on our behalf in Iraq Egypt Lebanon and elsewhere. And now I fear this syndrome is happening again in Syria as a Kurdish militia group known as the YPG which has been the United States’ best ally against the Islamic State gets pounded by the Turkish military.

“诱惑和放弃”的模式是我们最喜欢用的方式之一。这是美国在中东地区不受欢迎的一个原因。在伊拉克、埃及、黎巴嫩等其他地方，我们对替我们冒险的当地部队不管不顾。现在我担心这个病症（现象）再次发生在称作YPG的叙利亚的库尔德民兵组织身上。YPG一直是美国在对抗伊斯兰国家的最好盟友，但是它却被土耳其军事打击。


-------------译者：BXHin1995-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

emo Kernizi
10/28/2016 11:37 AM GMT+0800
Betraying people sharing our values should be more painful than any other betrays the US has ever committed.  
Kurds are predominantly secular respecting gender equality (rare thing) truly multicultural open minded ethnically indigenous to the Middle East (unlike the Mongol Turks) are the descendants of Saladin. 
If we ever need another ally in the ME in addition to Israel the Kurds are it truly reliable have strong will to fight. The Turkish aggression led by Erdogan should be a test of the US's resolve in meeting aggression and standing by its friends.

背叛和我们有同样价值观的人民应该是美国犯下的最令人痛惜的罪行。
库尔德人显然是世俗的，尊重性别平等（很少见），真正多元文化和开放的，世代生活在中东（不像蒙古突厥人），是萨拉丁的后裔。
如果我们在中东需要除了以色列以外的盟友，库尔德人就是绝佳对象。绝对可靠，有强烈的战斗意愿。埃尔多安主导的土耳其入侵对美国怎样解决面对侵犯和支持朋友的问题是一个考验。

Citizen1787
10/29/2016 9:48 PM GMT+0800 [Edited]
Please describe how the US can "stand by" the Kurds. Be specific. Thanks.

请说一下美国怎样能支持库尔德人。具体一些。谢谢。

-------------译者：企鹅胖企鹅-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Listen-to-them
10/30/2016 11:01 PM GMT+0800
Very islamophobic and twisted. Are you suggesting that if Kurds (who actually are quite religious) would not share our values and thus qualify less as friends if they were practicing Muslims? Assad is very secular and US is attacking him with Al-Nusra ( formerly known as alQaida) . US is also very friendly with israel and India both of which are increasingly non-secular and both US and Israel friends with and teaming up with Saudi Arabia in their very ugly war in Yemen. 

观念扭曲，极其仇视伊斯兰教。你是不是在说，要是库尔德人（非常信教）不接受我们的价值观，信奉伊斯兰教，那他们就没资格跟我们做朋友？阿萨德很世俗，可是美国伙同AL-NUSRA（也就是以前的基地组织）袭击他，美国和以色列印度关系好，后两者却在去世俗化的路上越走越远，然后美国和以色列，都和沙特关系不错，共同在也门导演了一场丑陋的战争

Bottom line is that Syria Libya Yemen are all sovereign nations US had no right to meddle in their Arab spring and arm rebels in Syria ( a country that was giving refuge to 2 million Iraqis from a US war) or bomb Libya ( as Putin said who gave NATO the right to kill him) and it is against international law and US own laws to sell arms to a country ( Saudi Arabia) to bomb another( Yemen). 

这是触及底线的，叙利亚也门都是独立主权国家，美国没有权利插手阿拉伯之春和叙利亚的反叛活动（叙利亚曾经为美伊战争后，200万伊拉克难民提供庇护），也没权利去轰炸叙利亚（就如普金说的，谁给了北约乱杀人的权利）。卖给一个国家（沙特）武器去轰炸另一个国家（也门），这违反了国际法，也违反了美国自己的法律。

As long as United States is in the Middle East there will be no peace but you can be assured it will be a huge economic boost for US as we are the biggest arms exporter there. The question that needs to be asked is… are we deliberately creating wars for our economic gains?

只要有美国在，中东永无宁日。不过可以确定，作为最大军火出口商的美国无疑获益匪浅。问题是，我们会不会为了钱故意制造战争。

-------------译者：猪八姐-审核者：izzmo------------

richard40
10/28/2016 3:59 AM GMT+0800 [Edited]
We saved both the Kurds in Syria and the Kurds in Iraq from being overrun by ISIS with supplies special forces and lots of air strikes so we did not exactly totally desert them. But the article makes a good point that after fighting ISIS so hard for us the last 2 years for most of the time far better than anybody else did they should get some reward out of it other than being betrayed to the Turks who have been little help to us lately anyway.

我们通过空袭和特种部队把叙利亚和伊拉克的库尔德人从遍布ISIS的地方拯救出来，所以我们完全没有抛弃他们。但是文章提出了一个很好的观点，在如此艰难的同ISIS战斗两年后，在大部分时间内，除了近来背叛的帮助甚微的土耳其人，他们应该得到一些报酬因为他们做的远比其他任何人都多。

-------------译者：猫猫克鲁-审核者：izzmo------------

Listen-to-them
10/30/2016 11:12 PM GMT+0800
US is not the main power fighting Daesh. It is Russia and Iran and its proxy Hezbollah This is just a fact. United States has been bombing ISIS since 2011 with no difference on the ground . Change happened when Russians intervened. This is why all the forces fighting ISIS - Iraqis Syrian army Kurds Iranians - are all team up with Iran and Russia in one way or another.  
US teamed up with Saudi Arabia to create a renal army to overthrow Assad. US provided the weapons and the Saudis paid every last bullet. Plus $2000 per month for every fighter. last Muslim men and boys from all over the world poured in same as they did in Afghanistan and during the 80s. It was good money  
Before next thing we had was Taliban. Now...next thing we have is ISIS.

鹰酱不是反达伊沙的主要力量。他们是大毛，伊朗以及它的代理人真主党。这才是事实。鹰酱从2011年就开始从地面上竭力进攻isis。但是当大毛介入的时候事情就发生了变化。这也是为什么所有反isis的武装力量——Iraqis Syrian army Kurds Iranians——总是这样或那样地和伊朗以及大毛合作的原因。
 
鹰酱联合骆驼组建了一支军队来推翻阿萨德。鹰酱提供武器，骆驼为每一颗子弹买单。另外，每个战士每一月2000美刀。穆斯林青年和小孩从世界各地源源不断地蜂拥而至，就像80年代的阿富汗。这是一个赚钱的买卖。
在下一个破事之前是塔利班，现在……这个下一个破事是isis。

 -------------译者：是你的鱼塘-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Glidj
10/28/2016 1:15 AM GMT+0800
Erdogan has visions of grandeur bringing back the Ottoman Empire what utter crap Roman Empire Persian Empire Greek Empire Russian Empire history dude gone is gone no one is going to allow you to come in and redraw centuries old borders you don't have the muscle the Russians maybe do but your dreams Erdogan are just pubescent wet dreams.

埃尔多安有强烈的抱负，找回昔日奥斯曼帝国的荣光，  直言不讳的说，昔日强横的王朝，罗马帝国，波斯帝国，希腊，沙皇，潮起潮落，走了一波又一波，也没见谁再次起来，谁还愿意看到一个再次崛起的奥斯曼帝国？   重画历史边界，找回历史荣光，你有俄罗斯那样强健的肌肉吗？所以说，埃尔多安，你理想很丰满，现实很骨感。

Citizen1787
10/28/2016 2:16 AM GMT+0800 [Edited]
"Russian Empire history dude gone is gone" 
You dont know much about Russia's history and imperial expansion do you? Not saying that I know much but I think I might know more than you at this point. 
The Soviet unx collapsed but that is very different.

你小子对沙俄历史了解太少了，你知道他的帝国扩张史吗？不是说我了解很多，我在这点上绝对比你知道的多，苏联解体和王朝兴衰是不同滴。。

-------------译者：BXHin1995-审核者：izzmo------------

Glidj
10/28/2016 3:12 AM GMT+0800
We are talking about Erdogan's wet dreams Russia is just a sidebar.

我们正在谈论埃尔多安的美梦，俄罗斯只是次要的。

Citizen1787
10/27/2016 9:14 PM GMT+0800
Are you a US citizen?

你是美国公民么？

Citizen1787
10/29/2016 9:50 PM GMT+0800
Turkey is a NATO member and has been a US ally since the Cold War. Turkey wasn't an insignificant US ally during the Cold war.

土耳其是北约成员国，自从冷战就是美国盟友。在冷战期间土耳其不是无关紧要的。

 -------------译者：不吐泡沫的鱼-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

supermoe88
10/27/2016 5:14 PM GMT+0800
This is yet another one of numerous examples of the U.S.'s "use and discard" policy. They did this with Bin Laden when they used him and the Mujahideen to rid the Soviets in Afghanistan and then abandoned them. When will the U.S Govt. learn to respect its collaborators?

这是美国众多“利用和抛弃”政策事例中的一个，当他们和本拉登在一起时，利用他和圣战者去对付在阿富汗的苏联，然后抛弃了他们，什么时候美国政府才能学会尊重它的合作者呢？

richard40
10/28/2016 4:04 AM GMT+0800 [Edited]
We did not fund bin laden in afghanistan that is a popular myth. Our aid there went mainly to another group the northerrn alliance not the taliban or bin laden who were mainly funded by the saudis. We did drop support for the northern alliance once the USSR was driven out which allowed the taliban t take over. That same northern alliance were the main ones that helped us drive out the Taliban in our Afghanistan war.

在阿富汗我们并没有资助本拉登，这只是个流传很广的谣言。我们的援助主要给的是另个叫北方联盟的组织而不是塔利班和本拉登，他们（本拉登和塔利班）主要是受到沙特阿拉伯的资助。当我们赶走苏联之后我们并没有放弃支持北方联盟而让塔利班来接管（苏联留下的空白）。同样的北方联盟是我们的重要伙伴，帮助我们在阿富汗战争中驱赶塔利班。

 -------------译者：猫猫克鲁-审核者：izzmo------------

Listen-to-them
10/30/2016 11:20 PM GMT+0800
100% wrong. US created mujahideen to fight Soviet unx in the 80's. They broke up into two factions – Northern alliance and Taliban. Russia and Iran supported Northern Alliance whereas US Saudi and Pakistan aided Taliban. Never never never has US ever allied with anti-Saudi or anti-Israeli faction.. Yes when our demons had come to haunt us we had started talking to NI but was only after 911 that we openly supported Northern alliance and thus empowering both Russians and Iranians. 
US has a long history of befriending and bombing the same.  
No wonder the Chinese call us United States of amnesia

Listen-to-them
10/30/2016 11:20 PM GMT+0800
错，全错！80年代，鹰酱创造了圣战者来与苏联对抗。后来，他们分裂成两个派系——北方联盟和塔利班。大毛和伊朗支持北方联盟，而鹰酱，骆驼和巴巴羊则支援塔利班。鹰酱从没有，绝没有，真没有和反沙特以及反以色列派系结盟。是的，当我们的恶魔开始纠缠我们的时候，我们不得不与北方联盟谈判，但只是从911之后，我们才开始公开支持北方联盟，并对俄罗斯人和伊朗人都做了许诺。
鹰酱对同一批人大棒加胡萝卜由来已久。
怪不得中国人总称我们为爱摸你傻（amnesia，健忘）合众国。

 -------------译者：不吐泡沫的鱼-审核者：izzmo------------

ceemajo
10/27/2016 10:01 AM GMT+0800
I was in Iraq 2007-8. I told my Iraqi colleagues that we were with them and would be with them. When I arrived in Anbar in September 2007 the place was a smoking ruin. By the time I left in September 2008 I could - and did - walk on the streets of places like Haditha or Hit. People were happy and friendly. They were rebuilding. We had won. We defeated Islamic radicalism on a battlefield of their choosing.  
But we didn't finish the job. We left too early and left our friends. Most of the people we worked with were killed. I hated to open the email to learn about another. We won in 2008 and let them down in 2011. Now we have to do it again.

我2007-2008年在伊拉克，我告诉我的伊拉克同事，不管过去和未来我都将和他们在一起，当我2007年九月到达安巴尔省时候，那里一片废墟，直到我在2008年九月离开的时候，我走在像 哈迪塞镇或者是Hit街道上，人民是幸福友好的，他们正在重建家园，我们赢了，我们在伊斯兰极端主义者的战场上打败了他们。
但是我们并没有完成任务，我们离开的太早了，离开了我们的朋友。和我们一起工作的许多人都被杀了，我很讨厌通过这种邮件的方式去了解另一个国家，我们在2008年赢了却离开在2011年，现在我们必须再赢一次。

-------------译者：不吐泡沫的鱼-审核者：izzmo------------

Rural Kansan
10/27/2016 10:26 AM GMT+0800
I appreciate your service. I respectfully disagree. "The job" could never be finished. You and your brave selfless professional warfighters could never achieve a victory that would be secure. Even now as "we" are making progress against ISIS Iraq army trucks are flying Shiite flags. I'm curious what you think victory would look like and what would have to be achieved before we could leave?

我很感谢你的回复，但是我不敢苟同。任务可能从来不能完成，你和你的勇敢无私的职业战士是不能安全的取得胜利的，即便是现在我们对付那些插着什叶派旗帜的伊拉克ISIS军用车也取得进展。我很好奇你所认为的胜利会是什么样子的，我们这离开之前又必须实现什么(目标）?