QA）为什么中国一开始不是七国集团的成员？ [美国媒体]

Why isn't China part of the G7?

QA）为什么中国一开始不是七国集团的成员？


Wang Xl, Born Chinese national
Answered Oct 10, 2016
More than a century ago, Eight-Nation Alliance sent their troops to China during the Boxer Rebellion. The “humanitarian intervention” was so successful that they quite easily occupied and looted the whole imperial capital of Pekin, including the Forbidden City, making the emperor, empress, and everyone capable of running fled the capital.
Which eight-nation, you may ask?
US, UK, Japan, France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Italy and Russia.
So if we exclude Austria-Hungary which died like 20 years later and add Canada which was a British colony, what do we get?
Yeah we get G8.
They may fight with each other, their flags may change, and they may not wave their big guns under your nose, but the world order has NEVER changed. Your dad is still your dad.

一个多世纪前，义和团运动期间，八国联军侵略中国。“人道主义干涉”是如此成功，以至于他们很容易地占领并洗劫了整个北京城，包括紫禁城，使皇帝、皇后和所有能够逃离首都的人都逃离了首都。
你可能会问，是哪八个国家?



美国、英国、日本、法国、德国、奥匈帝国、意大利和俄罗斯。
如果把奥匈帝国排除在外大约20年后，加上加拿大是英国的殖民地，我们会得到什么?
是的我们得到了G8。
他们可能会互相争斗，他们的国旗可能会改变，他们可能不会在你面前舞刀弄枪了，但世界秩序从未改变。你爸爸还是你爸爸。

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Tom McGregor, I lived in Beijing since Oct. 2010
Answered Thu
I’m not the biggest follower of globalist organizations, but I do know the G7 exists and according to my understanding, it should represent the seven most powerful and richest countries in the world. I had incorrectly assumed that China was a member of the G7, based on simple logic.

我对全球主义组织的了解不多，但我知道G7的存在，根据我的理解，它应该代表世界上最强大、最富有的7个国家。基于简单的逻辑，我错误地认为中国是G7的成员。

Nevertheless, I was proven wrong and discovered that Canada retains membership in the G7, but China does not. I was totally shocked to discover the news and so I will verify the official G7 list: United States, United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, France, Italy and Canada.

然而，我被证明是错误的，并发现连加拿大都是G7的成员，但中国不是。我震惊了，所以我核实了下G7的官方名单:美国、英国、日本、德国、法国、意大利和加拿大。

I can understand why the US, UK, Germany, Japan and France are listed, but according to GDP (gross domestic product) rankings, how do Italy and Canada qualify? You can review the world’s top ten largest economies, posted by the World Economic Forum.
According to rankings, Italy ranks - #8, right behind India - #7, while Canada is ranked - #10, right behind Brazil - #9. China is the world’s second-largest economy, while India’s market is bigger than both Italy and Canada.

我能理解为什么美国、英国、德国、日本和法国被列入名单，但根据国内生产总值(GDP)排名，意大利和加拿大哪里有资格?你可以在世界经济论坛上看到世界十大经济体排名。
根据排名，意大利排在第8位，排在第7名印度之后，而加拿大排在第10位，排在第9名巴西之后。中国是世界第二大经济体，而印度的市场比意大利和加拿大都大。

China and India both deserve full membership to the G7, while there are no legitimate reasons to grant special status to Italy and Canada. Perhaps, one could argue that Italy holds powerful sway among European unx member states, but what argument can Canada give to demand recognition as a G7 member?

中国和印度都有资格成为七国集团的正式成员，但意大利和加拿大不配拥有此等特殊地位。也许有人会说，意大利在欧盟成员国中拥有强大的影响力，但加拿大有什么理由要求获得G7成员国的承认呢?

Outside Canadian borders, does anyone believe that Canada should be a G7 member? Even its neighbors to the south, we Americans do not know much about Canada, except that Justin Bieber, the pop singer, comes from there and that Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has issued a mandate demanding its citizens say, “peoplekind” instead of “mankind.”
For the record, I’m neither a Justin Bieber fan, known as a ‘Belieber’ or supporter of PM Trudeau. Perhaps other leaders of the G7 are ‘Beliebers’ and hence have granted approval for Canada to keep its membership, but does anyone think that US President Donald J. Trump is a secret Justin Bieber fan? I doubt it and in the upcoming G7 summit, Trump should address the topic of membership qualifications.

在加拿大之外，有人认为加拿大应该成为G7成员国吗?即使是它的南部邻居，我们美国人对加拿大的了解也不多，除了流行歌手贾斯汀·比伯来自加拿大，加拿大总理贾斯汀·特鲁多发布命令，要求加拿大公民说“peoplekind”，而不是“mankind”。
平心而论，我既不是贾斯汀·比伯的粉丝，也不是特鲁多的支持者。也许七国集团的其他领导人是"JB粉"因此他们批准了加拿大的成员身份，但有人认为美国总统唐纳德·特朗普是贾斯汀·比伯的秘密粉丝吗?我对此表示怀疑，而且在即将到来的七国集团峰会上，特朗普应该解决一下成员国资格问题了。

In regards to my personal opinion and nobody else’s, China and India deserve to join the G7, while Italy and Canada should be expelled. If the G7 wishes to represent the interest of the world’s top seven largest economies, they should agree to change the listing of membership when global economic conditions warrant it.

就仅我个人而言，我认为中国和印度应该加入G7，而意大利和加拿大应该被驱逐。如果G7希望代表世界七大经济体的利益，它们应同意在全球经济状况允许的情况下改变成员国名单。

And Italy’s current political and economic climate stand in turmoil as they struggle to keep the government running and its enormous public debts continue to pile up. The Guardian newspaper described Italy as a “slow motion train wreck” reports that:

“Since Italy returned to the European exchange rate mechanism in 1996 – after withdrawing from it in 1992 – it has surrendered its monetary sovereignty to the European Central Bank. In exchange, it has enjoyed much lower inflation and borrowing costs, resulting in a dramatic reduction in interest payments – from 12% of GDP to 5% – on its massive public debt.
Still, Italians have long been uncomfortable with the lack of an independent monetary policy and that sense of lost control has gradually overshadowed the advantages of euro membership. The adoption of the euro has had massive implications for the millions of small and medium-size enterprises that once relied on periodic currency duation to offset the inefficiencies of Italy’s economic system and remain competitive.”

意大利目前的政治和经济形势也处于动荡之中，他们艰难维持着政府的运转，巨额公共债务继续堆积。《卫报》在一篇文章中将意大利描述为一辆“慢吞吞的破烂火车”:

“自从意大利在1992年退出欧洲汇率机制，于1996年重返欧洲汇率机制以来，它已将其货币主权交予欧洲央行。作为交换，它享受了低得多的通货膨胀和借贷成本，其庞大的公共债务所需支付的利息也大大减少从GDP的12%大幅减少到5%。
尽管如此，意大利人长期以来一直对缺乏独立的货币政策感到不安，这种失去控制的感觉逐渐掩盖了加入欧元区的好处。欧元的采用对数以百万计的中小企业产生了巨大的影响，这些企业曾经依赖周期性货币贬值来抵消意大利经济体系的低效，并保持竞争力。”

One should expect that Italy’s government should take greater priority on fixing its own economy, instead of fretting over G7 matters.

意大利政府应优先修复解决自己的经济问题，而不是在G7会议上浪费时间。

The G7 should make adjustments in our fast-changing world and switch members when necessary. Do they really need Italy and Canada? I don’t think so.

七国集团也应随着快速改变的世界而改变自己成员国的名单。他们真的需要意大利和加拿大吗？我觉得不需要。

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Victor Shi, lives in China
Answered Fri
That birds of a feather flock together is a natural thing. G7 are all rich democratic old-industrialized western allies. On the summit, they have similar social or economic development phrase and similar mindset, common topics and common interests.
China is too different from most aspects. Joining G7 will only brings distrust and argument, even quarrel. So China should stay cool .

物以类聚，人以群分。七国集团都是富裕、民主、老工业化的西方盟友。在峰会上，他们有着相似的社会或经济发展阶段，有着相似的思维方式、共同的话题和共同的利益。
中国在很多方面都太不一样了。加入G7只会带来不信任和争论，甚至吵架。所以中国应该保持冷静。

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history student
Answered Fri
G7 is a political group, consisting ONE big brother, and 6 OTHER countries.
if you are common rational chinese, WHY are you interested to join G7? those combined 6 countries are smaller than your country. WHY wasting your time to negotiate to those 6 countries who kept INSULTING you for decades?
NO INTEREST.
this is the answer why china will never join G7 or G8 NONSENSE.

七国集团是一个政治集团，由一个老大哥和其他六个国家组成。
如果你是一个普通的理性中国人，为什么你会有兴趣加入G7?这其它六个国家加起来比你们国家都要小。为什么要浪费你的时间去和那些几十年来一直侮辱你的国家谈判呢?
不感兴趣。
这就是为什么说中国永远不会加入G7或G8的废话。

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Douglas Chapel, B.A. in Political Science, summa cum laude
Answered Wed
China’s economy, in 2018, is quite a bit larger than every country in the world except for the United States in terms of raw GDP. But raw GDP isn’t the only criterion for membership in the G7. If it were, Brazil and India also have larger GDPs than Italy and Canada. If you instead measure GDP by purchasing power parity (that is, accounting for exchange rates among countries), then even more countries could argue for G7 membership.

2018 中国的经济规模，比世界上的所有国家都要大，除了美国的GDP总量。但是，GDP总量并不是成为G7成员国的唯一标准。如果是的话，巴西和印度的GDP总量也比意大利和加拿大要高。如果你用购买力平价(即各国之间的汇率)来衡量GDP，那么就会有更多的国家吵着要加入G7。

But G7 membership involves more than just the size of a country’s economy. For one thing, membership explicitly also involves being a developed country, and the G7 currently consists of the seven largest economies among developed countries. Brazil and India are still considered developing countries by probably any economist; China is rapidly developing but is generally still not seen as a developed economy. One loose measurement of a country’s development is the Human Development Index, which rates countries on a scale of 0 to 1. The lowest HDI in the G7 is Italy, which had a 0.873 in 2015 (26th in the world); meanwhile, China’s HDI is 0.738 (90th in the world).

但七国集团的成员国身份不仅仅涉及一个国家的经济规模。首先，成员国身份显然还需要是发达国家，而G7目前由发达国家中最大的七个经济体组成。巴西和印度可能仍被经济学家视为发展中国家;中国发展迅速，但总体上仍未被视为发达经济体。人类发展指数（HDI）是衡量一个国家发展状况的一项宽松指标，它以0到1为尺度对国家进行排名。七国集团中HDI最低的国家是意大利，2015年为0.873(世界排名第26);与此同时，中国的HDI为0.738(世界排名第90位)。

Furthermore, all seven countries in the G7 are democracies, and while being democratic isn’t a requirement for membership, it’s certainly expected on a de facto basis. The organization was first formed in the 1970’s, and so it necessarily excluded dictatorships in the Soviet bloc. The organization’s expansion to include Russia, during which time it temporarily became the G8, failed, officially due to Russia’s annexation of Crimea but more broadly due to Vladimir Putin’s increasingly dictatorial rule.

此外，七国集团的所有七个国家应都是民主国家，虽然民主不是成为成员国的必然条件，但它显然是条潜规则。G7组织最初成立于20世纪70年代，因此当时它肯定自己排除了独裁统治的苏联。后来该组织接纳了俄罗斯，在此期间暂时成为了G8，但由于俄罗斯意图吞并克里米亚，更可能是由于弗拉基米尔•普京日益独裁的统治，很快又变成了G7。

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以下是罗宾的两个回答，时隔两年，面对相似的问题却给出了两个回答 还蛮怪的

Robin Daverman, World traveler
upxed May 27, 2016
Well you need to know a little bit about why G7 was formed in the first place.

我们首先需要了解下为什么G7会成立。

So the story was that in 1971, the Bretton Woods system, which pegged all major currencies at that time to gold, was getting shaky. The US had a huge trade deficit. The French was bitching about “the exorbitant dollar” because “it costs a couple of cents for the US to print the money, while we have to send in our real gold in exchange for the dollar”, the Germans were pissed because it cost them a lot of money to artificially keep the Deutsche Mark pegged to the dollar. They just wanted their gold back and be done with it. The Swiss was the first to just go to the Americans, handed in the US dollars, and said, here you go, $35 an ounce, I want my gold back, NOW. Then everybody started to want their gold back and the US didn’t have enough gold in reserve to pay them (Yep, somebody printed more money than they had gold to back it up with). So - Nixon unilaterally announced, “let’s just forget about your gold. Let’s make the USD a fiat currency (Fiat money). From now on, it’s worth as much as I tell you, OK?” Nixon shock Basically he just got up in the morning, walked to the mic, and made the announcement to the world. Just like that.

故事发生于1971年，当时由于美国巨大的贸易赤字，布雷顿森林体系开始动摇。法国人开始抱怨“美元的不合理”,“美国人只需要花几美分印钱，我们就得用真金白银去和他们换美元”,德国人很生气，因为为了保持德国马克与美元挂钩他们花了很多钱。 现在各国只是想要回他们的金子，然后拿了就跑。瑞士人第一个去找美国，说：给你钱，35美元一盎司，我要拿回我的黄金。随后，每个人都跑过来想要回他们的黄金，而美国却没有足够的黄金储备来付给他们(因为美国人打仗多印了很多钱)。然后-尼克松单方面宣布:“忘掉你的黄金吧。让我们把美元变成法定货币。从现在开始，美元与黄金脱钩，好吗?“基本上就是他早上起床，走到麦克风前，向全世界宣布了这个消息，事就成了。

Well, this action pissed off the Europeans big time, but there’s nothing they could do about it. It’s the quintessential “Beggar Thy Neighbor” policy where you find yourself in trouble, you get yourself out of trouble by passing the trouble to your neighbor. So the Europeans came back and said, well since you own more than half of the gold in the world (as a result of WWII), there’s nothing we can do about it. But can we at least meet and talk this through before you just go do it the next time? This is how the precursor of the G7, the “library group” was formed. It had 5 members - the US, UK, France, Germany, and Japan.

这一行为激怒了欧洲人，但他们对此无能为力。这是典型的“以邻为壑”政策-当你发现自己有麻烦时，你把麻烦丢给了邻居。所以欧洲人回来说，虽然你拥有世界上一半以上的黄金(二战的结果)，我们拿你没办法。但下次你要再搞这种事之前要和我们商量清楚 OK？这就是G7的前身，“图书馆集团”的形成。它有5个成员国——美国、英国、法国、德国和日本。

The original purpose of the G7 group was to do economic horse-trading behind the scenes, like, I’ll put in 1% stimulus if you cut your tariff by 20%, things like that, you know, that are best discussed IN SECRET because you are trading the economic welfare of one group of your citizens against another group of your citizens. The goal was to prevent these countries from killing each other economically, get it? It’s a forum to manage the economic in-fighting among this group of countries, so right away, people went out looking for allies. The US proposed adding Canada, and the Europeans countered with Italy. Then the Europeans proposed adding EU as a member (because the Dutch and the Belgian were pissed they weren’t represented), and the US countered with adding Australia. The French said forget it, too many Anglos in the room already. OK fine. That’s how we ended up with the G7 - the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, and Canada.

最初的7国集团的事务是在幕后做讨价还价,比如,如果你降低20%的关税我就多买1%的东西之类的事情,要知道,这种事情要秘密讨论，因为你讨论的内容关乎到正反两个群体的利益问题。这样可以防止这些国家在经济上互相残杀，懂吗?这是一个讨论管理这些国家之间经济内讧的论坛，所以人们立刻出去寻找盟友。美国找来了加拿大，而欧洲则拉来了意大利。然后，欧洲人提议欧盟以成员的方式加入(因为荷兰和比利时很气没有他们的份儿)，相对的美国表示要澳大利亚加入。法国人就说算了算了就这样吧，团体里已经有太多盎格鲁人了。最后我们看到了G7——美国、英国、法国、德国、意大利、日本和加拿大。

What happened afterwards is that like all organizations, it started to take on roles that it was not designed to do. Election campaigns coming up, and some G7 member decided to use the occasion to do some political grandstanding - good for the votes, you know. This was universally resented by the other members of the G7, because when you do political grandstanding, you invariably do so at the expense of the other members. Nonetheless, when you throw together a group of politicians, what do you expect? It’s like putting together a group of drunks and expect no alcohol to be served in the party. It went quickly from one guy taking a small sip to everybody drunk as sh*t. It’s at one of these G7 meetings where Helmut Schmidt made his famous pronouncement on Margaret Thatcher - “she is a bitch, she is tough, she lacks scope and she cannot lead".

后来发生的事情就变了，像所有组织一样，它开始承担起它原本不应该扮演的角色。大选活动即将开始，一些G7成员决定利用这个机会搞些政治表演——以赢得选票。七国集团的其他成员国普遍对此表示不满，因为这在某些方面牺牲了其他成员国的利益。然而，当你把一群政客凑在一起时，你还能指望什么?这就像把一群酒鬼聚集在一起，却警告他们禁酒一样。一旦某人开始喝了一小口，马上所有人都醉成烂泥。七国集团会议里有一场，德国总理施密特骂铁娘子撒切尔说"她是个贱人，她固执，她缺乏眼界，她领导无能"。

Then in 2008, the sub-prime mortgage crisis hit. All G7 members went down the tube. So what do you do? You go look for somebody with money, yes, those despised “developing countries” who have been saving their pennies. Like China, India, Brazil, … I mean, seriously, all G7 countries, other than Germany, are in debt up to their necks. So, from 2008 and onward, the G7 group completely changed its focus, from global economy to politics. The economic forum is taken over by G-20 major economies, which China participates.

2008年，次贷危机爆发。G7的所有成员都坐起了地铁。那该怎么办呢?去找有钱人啊，是的，那些被鄙视的“发展中国家”一直在存钱。就像中国、印度、巴西……我是说，说真的，除了德国以外，G7的所有国家都债台高筑。因此，从2008年开始，G7将重点从全球经济转变为政治。经济论坛由中国参加的20国集团主要经济体接管。

As for the original G7, there is now talk to invite Russia back to G7, with the Germans and the UK loudly proclaiming that the Middle East security can not be solved without the Russians. So Russia is on track to be invited back in 2017. Now do you get which countries should participate in G7?

至于最初的G7，现在有传言说要邀请俄罗斯回到七国集团，德国和英国大声宣称，如果没有俄罗斯，中东的安全问题是无法解决的。因此，俄罗斯有望在2017年再次受到邀请。现在你知道哪些国家应该加入G7吗?

The “advanced, democratic” countries who are bombing the Middle East!

轰炸中东的“先进、民主”国家!

China is NOT “advanced”, NOT “democratic”, and most importantly, NOT bombing the Middle East.

而中国既不“先进”，也不“民主”，最重要的是，没有轰炸过中东。

Robin Daverman, World traveler
Answered Fri
Why is China not represented in the G7 summit? Isn't its economy way bigger than that of Canada and Italy?

为什么中国不是G7峰会成员国代表？它的经济不是远比意大利和加拿大要高吗？

G7 is the political club. 

G7是政治团体
G20 is the economic club. 

G20是经济团体

China is in G20 and not in G7.

中国在G20而不在G7

G7 was started as a club of common POLITICAL ECONOMY group by the French and the Germans in 1975, as a response to the oil shock. 1973 oil crisis The 1973 Oil Shock was a quintessential political economy issue, because it was caused by the Arab-Israel war in 1973, and the Arab countries yanked oil supply from the global market as a response. This sent the whole industrialized world into a grinding halt. So the French President Valéry Giscard d’Estaing and Chancellor Helmut Schmidt got together, and said, why don’t we get together to figure out a strategy to deal with this, since we are all being screwed? Thus the first G6 (without Canada) meeting in Rambouillet.

作为对石油危机的回应，法国和德国在1975年成立了七国集团，作为共同政治经济集团的一个俱乐部。1973年的石油危机是一个典型的政治经济问题，因为它是由1973年的阿以战争引起的，阿拉伯国家为了应对危机，从全球市场上撤出石油供应。这使整个工业化世界陷入了泥泞。因此，法国总统瓦莱里和德国总理赫尔穆特聚在一起，说，既然我们都被搞了，我们为什么不聚在一起制定一项战略计划来解决这个问题呢?因此，第一次G6(不包括加拿大)会议在朗布依埃举行。

The good thing about G7 is that these group of countries account for ~ 50% of the world economy, so if G7 can manage its club well, they can bring a lot of stability and prosperity to the world. The not-so-good part about G7 is that, you have to remember, this organization was born out of the Oil Shock of the 70’s. It was set up as the “Us against the Arabs who control our oil supply” thingy, so this “Us against Them” flavor of political economy is in the club DNA. Their combined Middle East approach successfully ensured that the Arabs would never work in unity again and threaten the world oil supply. The price of it is continuous Middle East wars and global terrorism. Arguably the Western interference made the Arab countries worse, and the Arab interference in Western countries made the Western countries worse…

G7的好处是，这些国家的总经济占世界经济的50%左右，因此，如果七国集团能很好地管理好他们的俱乐部，他们就能给世界带来大大的稳定和繁荣。G7的不好之处在于，要知道这个组织因70年代的石油危机而诞生。它被建立的目的是“我们反对阿拉伯人控制我们的石油供应”，所以这种“我们反对他们”的政治经济学是刻在组织的骨子里的。他们联合的中东策略成功地确保了阿拉伯人再也不会团结一致，并威胁到世界的石油供应。但它的代价是持续不断的中东战争和全球恐怖主义。可以说，西方的干涉使阿拉伯国家痛苦不堪，而阿拉伯国家对西方国家的报复使西方国家更加头痛……

The EU was set up so that the European countries can stop warring with each other. ASEAN was set up so that Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines can stop fighting each other, and SCO was set up so that Russia, China, and the “-stan”s can stop fighting each other. These are all regional organizations to promote regional peace, and they are all highly successful in fulfilling their original purpose.

欧盟的建立是为了让欧洲国家停止互相争斗。东盟成立之时，印尼、马来西亚和菲律宾都停止相互争斗，而上海合作组织也成立了，这样俄罗斯、中国和各种“斯坦”就可以停止互相攻击。这些都是促进区域和平的区域组织，在实现其最初目的方面都非常成功。

G20 was founded as the purely economic club. The “substance” of this club is the meeting of finance ministers and the central bankers of these 20 nations that account for 85% of the world economy, together with the IMF and World Bank, twice a year. It is a relatively new organization, founded in 1999, driven by the 1997 Asian financial crisis and the 1998 Russian financial crisis. So these central bankers and finance ministers get together regularly to build trust so that they can handle FX (Foreign Exchange) interventions and economic stimulations in sync.
Well so far it’s been shown that G20 is unwieldy vis-a-vis G7, because the divergence of interest. The G7 group can act together much more often than the G20 group. What the G20 group is good for, is really for one member to say, I’m going to do this currency intervention, and you guys agree to stay out of it and let me battle the market, instead of forcefully intervene against me, OK? So it’s more a “give you a heads-up so that we won’t be accidentally shooting at each other”-type of international financial intervention. China is part of G20.

而G20是作为纯粹的经济俱乐部成立的。这个俱乐部的“实质”是由20个国家的财政部长和中央银行家们组成的会议，这些国家占世界经济的85%，与国际货币基金组织和世界银行一起，每年两次。这是一个相对较新的组织，成立于1999年，受到1997年亚洲金融危机和1998年俄罗斯金融危机的推动。因此，这些央行行长和财政部长经常聚在一起，建立信任，以便他们能够同时处理外汇干预和经济刺激。
到目前为止证据表明，由于利益分歧，G20与G7相比显得更加笨拙。七国集团比20国集团更能合作。而20国集团的好处更多只是，一个成员国说：我要进行货币干预，你们同意我的站到一边不要干预，省的发生不必要打斗OK？因此，这更像是一种“给你一个提醒，这样我们就不会不小心误伤对方”中国是G20的一部分。

What is happening is that it turned out that politics and economy are irretrievably intertwined at the top level. Like the ongoing trade wars - is it politics, or is it economics? Well it’s both. So both G7 and G20 are converging to this in-between space with people of divergent interest forced into discussing political economy with each other. This is why you see the G7 and G20 topics started to over-lap.

事实证明，政治和经济在最高层面上是不可避免地交织在一起的。就像正在进行的贸易战一样——是政治还是经济问题？两者都有。因此，七国集团和20国集团都在向这个介于两者之间的空间靠拢，拥有不同利益的人们被迫相互讨论政治经济。这就是为什么七国集团和20国集团的话题会重叠在一起。