为什么在中国文化中，“丢脸”的概念那么强烈？（上） [美国媒体]

Why is the concept of ‘losing face’ so strong in Chinese culture?

为什么在中国文化中，“丢脸”的概念那么强烈？（上）



Collin Anthony Spears, Lived in China for 2.5 years in two different provinces.（在中国两个省份居住了2.5年）
Answered Fri
I’m not going to focus on the origin, other people have done a far better job speaking about the origin of the concept of “face”. I will speak more about the practical application in modern society as I experienced it.
In a group based society everyone is judging everyone all the time. Shame is a means of social control and it starts in the family.
Westerns, especially in Anglophone, countries are taught to be “guilty”, meaning “feeling personally bad for what you do because you know in your heart it was bad”, EVEN if no one is judging you.
In East Asia, this is not what parents do, usually the shame them and compare them to others in a negative way to get them to behave in the appropriate way. Shaming and caring about what others think of you, is key to social control as much or more than Anglophone “guilt based culture”. I have met East Asians, in the extreme, who do not think something is really wrong, as long as they just do not get caught.
So the locus of control in society is external, whereas in Anglophone societies it is more internal.This is why people in Northern Europe and North America say things like “who are you to judge me”, “it is my life”, “I don’t care what others think”, “ I do whatever I want…” Many people really mean it.
So I guess using both methods there can be extremes.
It does not mean East Asians have no guilt and Western people cannot be shamed. Oh no, both things happen every day all day, but it is more an issue of degree of importance in the society. Actually I think Southern Europeans are somewhere in between….Northern Europeans tend to be into the “it is my life, don’t judge me, leave me alone” type of attitude. I know for a fact Italian and French culture do emphasis “personal honor” and do care about “public shame” a lot more than people in Northern Europe. In the U.S. this concept is stronger in the Southeast than in the North due to historical reasons.
This is why face is important. It is how group based societies in East Asia control behavior within the group.
Funny thing is, in East Asia, most people are pretty “mild”, more passive aggressive than overtly aggressive, but usually when someone starts to act “crazy in public” it is due to them perceiving someone else made them “lose face”. I have seen, in China, several times people explode in anger in public places (like airports, restaurants) and scream at people for more than 15–20 minutes straight, because they felt someone (usually staff in those places) made them lose face.

我不想详述这个概念的来源，其他人就“面子”概念的起源作了更好的解释。我将谈谈它在现代社会里的实际应用。
在一个以群体为基础的社会里，每个人都时刻地在评判他人。羞辱是一种社会控制方式，它始于家庭。
西方人，特别是在母语是英语的国家，人们被授予“内疚感”，意思是“为自己所做的事情感觉糟糕，因为在内心深处，你知道那样做是不对的”，即使没人评判你。

而在东亚，父母却不这么做，而是羞辱自己的孩子，以消极的方式拿他们同别人作比较，从而让自己的孩子行为端正。羞辱以及在乎他人对你的看法，这是东亚人的社会控制方式，而英语为母语国家则是“以内疚感为基础的文化”。我遇到过一些极端的东亚人，他们不觉得某些事情是非常错误的，只要没人发现就行。
所以东亚的社会控制核心是外部性的，而在英语为母语国家，则是更加内部性的。所以北欧和北美的人会说“你凭什么评判我”，“这是我自己的生活”，“我不关心别人怎么想”，“我想干啥就干啥。。。”很多人真的就是这个意思。
所以两种方法都存在极端现象。

但这不意味着东亚人没有内疚感，也不意味着西方人不能被羞辱。其实都有发生，只不过所占据的重要程度有所不同。我觉得南欧人介于二者之间，北欧人倾向于“这是我的生活，不要评价我，别管我”这样的态度。意大利和法国文化强调个人荣誉，比起北欧人更关心“公共羞辱”。在美国，由于历史原因，这种概念在东南比在北部强烈。
所以说面子很重要，这是东亚社会控制人们行为的方法。

有趣的是，在东亚，大部分人相当“温和”，更多的是被动攻击而不是蓄意攻击，但是通常当人们在公共场合作出疯狂的举动时，那是因为他们觉得某人让自己“丢脸”了。在中国，我好几次看到人们在公共场合（机场，餐馆）大发脾气，对他人咆哮15到20分钟，因为他们觉得某人（通常是这些地方的工作人员）让自己丢脸了。

Miguel Paraz
Sat · 2 upvotes including Collin Anthony Spears
Good analysis. We can even have a mix, in the Philippines we have both the Asian and the Spanish forms of shame and honour, the latter similar to Latin American cultures.

分析的很好。甚至可以将二者混合起来，在菲律宾，我们有亚洲人的羞辱，也有西班牙人的荣誉，后者类似于拉丁美洲文化。

Johannes Sulistyo
Sat
In short, it is “peer pressure” for you? This is quite a unique perspective, but still makes sense nevertheless.
For long, I have been thinking that Asians are like “everyone is for themselves” are the main cause of why we always keep our guise in front of everyone else. Since high school, I’ve been told by my “cool” friends” that you can cheat, you can lie, and you are still good as long as nobody caught you. This is why I sometimes call Asians to be “smartass” and “edgy-wannabe”, because they (including some of my best friends) reserve a view that a person who already abandons their idealism and found the necessity of being ruthless with morality when necessary are “grown ups”.

也就是说，你觉得是“同龄人压力”导致的咯？这是个相当独特的视角，但还是有道理的。
长期以来，我一直觉得亚洲人的“大家都是为了自己”是我们在他人面前伪装的主要原因。自中学开始，我的那些“酷酷的朋友”就对我说你可以作弊，可以撒谎，只要没人发现，就没问题。所以我有时候会觉得亚洲人自作聪明不成熟，因为他们（包括我最好的一些朋友）认为一个人可以放弃自己的理想主义，在必要的情况下可以无视道德，他们认为这样才算是一个“成年人”

Srikrishna Bhat
Sat · 1 upvote from Collin Anthony Spears
Shaming and caring about what others think of you is common in India and maybe rest of South Asia as well!

羞辱和在意他人的看法也普通存在于印度，或许也存在于其他南亚国家。