美国海军需要新型战机，这都怪中俄 [美国媒体]

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A new naval future fleet architecture study from the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (CSBA) suggests that the United States Navy will need to develop a dedicated air superiority fighter to counter Russian and Chinese advances.

战略与预算评估中心（CSBA，美国智库，非党派独立政策研究机构 译者注）在一个关于未来海军舰队架构的研究中建议，美国海军需要研发一款专用空优战机以对抗俄罗斯和中国的空中优势。

“Counter-air operations will require low observable manned fighters with an unrefueled combat radius of more than 500 nm” the CSBA report states. “These characteristics will keep refueling aircraft out of range of enemy air defenses while enabling the fighters to reach and engage bombers in a dynamic environment inside the enemy’s air defense envelope.”

“制空行动中需要无需空中加油就能拥有500KM作战半径的低可探测性载人战斗机”CSBA在报告中写道。“这些特性可使加油机远离敌方防空火力，同时可使战斗机在敌方防空包线内的动态环境中接近并攻击敌方轰炸机。”

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The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Lockheed Martin F-35C Joint Strike Fighter—which are not dedicated air superiority fighters—would not be suitable to defeat advanced adversary air defenses or enemy aircraft such as the Chengdu J-20 or other Chinese fifth-generation warplanes. “In contrast to today’s multimission strike-fighters such as the F-35C the design of these aircraft would need to focus mostly on the fighter mission rather than strike so that they would have the speed endurance maneuverability and air-to-air sensor capability needed for counter-air operations” the report states.

F/A-18E/F超级大黄蜂和洛克希德马丁的F-35C联合攻击机均不是专用的空优战机，不适用于攻击敌方先进的防空系统或是成都（这里指成飞，与之前的洛马相呼应 译者注）的歼-20和中国其他五代战机。报告中写道“相较于F-35C那样的多任务攻击机，这些战机应专注于空战而不是对地打击，因此为了执行制空任务，它们需要速度、续航能力、机动性和空对空探测能力。”

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The new fighter would not only have to engage other fighters like the Cold War-era Grumman F-14 Tomcat the new aircraft would have to intercept Russian and Chinese strategic bombers before they could launch their payload of anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM) at a carrier strike group. But unlike the F-14 the new interceptor would have to eliminate enemy bombers inside the range of hostile air defenses.

正如冷战时期格鲁曼的F-14雄猫，新型战机不仅要攻击敌方的战斗机，还要在俄罗斯和中国的战略轰炸机发射反舰巡航导弹（ASCM）攻击我方航母战斗群之前将其拦截。但与F-14不同的是，新型截击机必须在敌方防空火力射程内消灭敌方轰炸机。


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Eddy
This is an odd since an article earlier this week claimed the latest models of the F22 and F35 in simulated air combat were far superior to anything in the Russian and Chinese arsenals. The previous article also claimed our newest aircraft stealth had a radar image the size of a house fly. Is this another attempt by our Trump neo con war lords to spend spend spend to bolster our already far superior military? Don't we already possess enough weapons to destroy the planet earth.

真是奇怪，先前的一篇文章宣称，最新型号的F22和F35在模拟空战中远远优于俄罗斯和中国武器库中的任何武器。之前的文章还宣称，我们最新型隐形战机的雷达反射面积仅相当于一只苍蝇。这是特朗普这个新保守主义者和战争贩子为了把更多的钱投入到已经具备巨大优势的军队中而做出的又一次尝试？难道我们所拥有的武器还不够毁地球吗？

invaderfm
Thank You for noticing I'm not anti defense but if you look anything made by the new Lockheed corp is just always what we need everybody else is expendable. Another Lockheed commercial constantly flipping to get more cash...

谢谢你注意到我并不是反对防御机制，但是你会发现新的洛克希德马丁公司所制造的任何东西都刚好是我们所需要的，其他公司的产品都可有可无。所以这不过是该公司为了获得资金而投放的广告罢了。

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City_Of_Champyinz
Did you miss the recent story about how less than half of the Navy's aircraft are mission ready at any one time? That does not scream 'far superior' to me there are major issues that need to be addressed.

最近不是有一篇文章说只有不到一半的海军飞机可以在任何时候投入战斗吗？在我看来这哪里是优势，我们存在的一些重大问题急需解决。

Carlos Pendleton
money poor spending and waste Lockheed Martin needs to be penalized for cost over runs

钱没花对地方还被浪费了，洛克希德马丁应该因超支而受到惩罚。

john
you suppose russia's planes are 100% available. If we can't beat them spending 10x more than them my question is "Who goes to jail"

你假定俄罗斯飞机的妥善率是100%。我们花了10倍的钱还不能打败他们，那我的问题是“谁应该被投入监狱”。

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MoS
John get your hands on a copy of Mark Urban's recent book "The Edge." He addresses the disparity in readiness between western militaries and our designated adversaries. Yes America has a massive funding advantage but it's been getting pretty thin value for its money. The U.S. still wants to dominate pretty much everywhere. China for now only has to focus on its territory and surrounding areas. As for stealth warplanes that's a technology that performs much differently for defenders than for attackers. The defenders don't need to match the attackers in technology to achieve a decisive advantage. It's the Home Team advantage writ large.

John你最好去看看马克·厄本（BBC记者，军事历史学家 译者注）的新书《优势》（《The Edge: Is The Military Dominance Of The West Coming To An End?》 译者注）。
他指出了西方的军备状态和我们敌人的不同之处。美国确实有资金优势，但是所发挥的作用却非常小。美国仍然试图统治世界。中国现阶段只需关心本土和周边地区。至于隐形战机，防御方和进攻方对这一技术的应用方式是有很大区别的。为了取得决定性的优势，防御方并不需要可匹敌进攻方的科技水平。这就叫主场优势。

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cooljim198
Absolutely Right Eddy! How could we not win with our numbers alone. I didn't bother with China because the US discredits their fighters and they have small numbers of Russian fighters as well as the Russians in their newest fighters and that's a key point. They don't have the money or the tooling to go into faster production as of now.

说的太对了，Eddy！凭借我们自身的数量优势难道还不能取胜吗？我不为中国而担心，因为美国看不起他们的战机，他们的俄制战机数量很少，他们的最新式战机同样使用了俄国技术，这才是重点。他们眼下没有资金和设备去加速生产。

Russia 
Mikoyan MiG-29/35 252
Mikoyan MiG-31 152
Sukhoi Su-24 277
Sukhoi Su-25 199
Sukhoi Su-27/30 321
Sukhoi Su-34 100
Sukhoi Su-35 48 Total 1349

俄罗斯
米高扬 MiG-29/35 252架
米高扬 MiG-31 152架
苏霍伊 Su-24 277架
苏霍伊 Su-25 199架
苏霍伊 Su-27/30 321架
苏霍伊 Su-34 100架
苏霍伊 Su-35 48架
共1349架

USA
A-10 291
F-15E 192
F-15SE 257
F-16 957
F-22 195
F-35 83
Navy F/A-18's 656
Marine F/A-18's 273 Total Fighters/Attack 2904 give or take

美国
A-10 291架
F-15E 192架
F-15SE 257架
F-16 957架
F-22 195架
F-35 83架
海军 F/A-18's 656架
海军陆战队 F/A-18's 273架
全部战斗机和攻击机 2904架 略有误差

Plus the EW's
EA-18G Growlers -132 
EA-6B Prowler-27 
Boeing E-6 Mercury -16 
Lockheed EP-3-16. 
EC-130H-21 212 of them total

电子战飞机
EA-18G 咆哮者 132架 
EA-6B 徘徊者 27架 
波音 E-6 水星 16架 
洛克希德 EP-3 16架 
EC-130H 21架
共212架
轰炸机
B-1 62架
B-2 20架
B-52 77架

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JTMullins
It is amazing how Trump in 3 weeks got the F-35 development going. The problem is all the blue sky people that wanted 1 aircraft to do every type of mission.
Maybe they should reopen the YF23 program as a naval air superiority fighter.

真令人惊讶，特朗普能在3周内将F-35的后续发展推进下去。问题在于蓝天人（这里指代美国空军 译者注）都想要一架什么任务都能搞定的飞机。或许他们应该重启YF23（F22当年的竞争者 译者注）项目，将它作为海军的空优战机。

Schoettlin Glenn
You are correct. We need a single plane that has longer range and can dog fight and have two engines and outmaneuver any potential enemy plane. It will have thrus vectoring and longer range Air to Air missiles for defeating enemy aircraft at longer range. It will need a high thrust to weight ratio to go vertical better. The F35 is a multipurpose plane and can do a lot but not one thing best. Well if the new sensors and helmet work as advertised it will be able to defeat other enemy planes by seeing them first. Lose sight lose fight.

你说的对。我们需要一架作战半径大，可近距离格斗，装备两台发动机，并且胜过潜在敌人战机的飞机。它应该有矢量推进，并挂载远程空空导弹，以便在更远的距离上消灭敌机。它应该有很高的推重比以获得更好的垂直爬升能力。F35是多用途战机，门门精通，样样稀松。如果新的探测装置（雷达和光电瞄准系统等 译者注）和头盔（F35的头盔显示系统，每个价值40多万美元 译者注）真如广告里说的那么给力，我们就能首先发现并摧毁敌机。失掉目标，输掉战斗。

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Carlos Pendleton
We need a jet that can go faster than missiles!!!!

我们需要一架飞的比导弹快的飞机！！！！

kameleon_o
That's right. We lost our interceptor capability when the F-14 was retired and then the navy admirals destroyed them so they could never be brought back. The whole concept of that was a Mach 2 capable interceptor that could fire long range hypersonic air to air missile's like the phoenix to take out bombers at over 100 miles. The F-35 doesn't have half that capability.

就是这样。当F-14退役并被海军将领勒令销毁且永不复用后，我们就失去了截击能力。（截击的）整体概念是：速度能达到2马赫截击机，发射如不死鸟（AIM-54远程空空导弹，最大速度4.3 - 5马赫，射程128 - 144公里 译者注）一样的远程高超音速空空导弹，干掉100多英里外的轰炸机。F-35连一半都做不到。

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MoS
Hard to restart from scratch when such a huge hunk of your and your allies' defence budgets have been bled dry by the F-35 that's supposed to meet their requirements for 50 years.
The Russians and the Chinese believe they have identified several vulnerabilities in this now vintage (20 year old) stealth technology that can significantly degrade its performance. That's a problem inherent in any "bleeding edge" technology. The focus becomes developing the technology not identifying its weaknesses. And 20 years is a long long time for the other side to explore counter technologies and other responses.

为了达到F-35可使用50年的要求，你和你的盟友耗费了巨量的防务预算，很难重头再来了。
俄罗斯和中国相信他们在老旧的（20年）隐形技术中看到了几个可使其效果大打折扣的缺陷。这是一切“尖端”技术与生俱来的毛病。只注重发展技术而不找出其缺陷。对方有长达20年的时间来研究反制技术和其他应对措施。

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cooljim198
You've got to be kidding me Trump in 3 weeks got the F-35 development going? It was McCain during hearings that told them they would face stiff penalties for all the delays and out of control cost's and the response from Lockheed Martin was the reduced price and bigger reductions on block buys. McCain exposed that it cannot and will not take the place of the A10 . Just more lies buddy don't believe the hype. 

特朗普在3周内就推进了F-35的后续发展，你是在开玩笑吗？这是麦凯恩（约翰·麦凯恩(John McCain），美国参议员，共和党重量级人物 译者注）的功劳，他在听证会里警告，他们（洛克希德马丁 译者注）会因项目延迟和超支而受到严厉惩罚，洛克希德马丁的回应是降价和给予批量采购更大的折扣。麦凯恩透露它（F-35）不能也不会取代A-10的位置。伙计，这些（指特朗普推进F-35后续发展 译者注）都是谎言，别相信那些炒作。

JTMullins
That was a factious response.

这是党派回应。

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Carlos Pendleton
That's a very good idea but the sharks want to spend more money with cost overruns they will claim that it costs too much but they need a jet that can fly twice the distance of these anyway!!!!

这是个非常好的主意。但那些贪婪的家伙还想在已经严重超支的情况下投入更多的钱。无论如何，他们都会声称虽然支出非常巨大但是他们需要一架航程翻倍的飞机！！！！

Mike
JTMullins I agree the YF23 was a superior stealth Fighter/air superiority fighter in many ways compared to the F22. Did you know one of the reasons the F22 was chosen over the YF23? It had the potential to be fitted with out major design changes to be sent on an aircraft carrier just like an F15. The YF23 did not have this capability. So the real question is why did we stop the F22 project? If we restart it then it will far more expensive than ever.

JTMullins，我同你的观点。YF23是一架在许多方面都超过F22的隐形空优战机。但你知道选择F22而不是YF23的其中一个原因吗？就像F15一样，F22拥有不需要更改主要设计就能上航母的能力。YF23没有这种能力。所以真正的问题在于我们为什么终止了F22计划（2011年12月13日美国宣布停产F22 译者注）？如果我们重启YF23计划，代价将非常昂贵。

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SweatnSteel
The F22 had a flight to down time ratio that was beyond unacceptable.. The maintenance it needs makes it impossible to keep any type of mission tempo that goes beyond a sortie a month.. You just can't keep those nerd machines in the air.

F22必须降低令人难以接受的故障率。它所需的（复杂）维护使得它不能执行超过一月一个架次的任何任务。你们没法让这些脑残的机器一直在天上飞。

kameleon_o
The military ditching on the F-22 is one of the most head scratching things ever. I think Lockheed even offered them a firm contract at a fixed price of around $100 million a plane for a bunch more planes and the military turned it down.

军方放弃F22是史上最让人挠头是事之一。我想洛克希德甚至向军方提供了定价一亿美元一架的批量采购合同，但是遭到了军方的驳回。

Jorge Castro
Another scam from the military industrial complex to get their way with the Tax payer's dollars.

又一个军工复合体攫取纳税人美元的骗局。