老外在中国长期居住后会有文化归属感吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：孤独的飞行者-审核者：Momeo------------



Culture in my question = ways of thinking ways of interacting with other human beings values internal worldview attitude about life.

我对于我所说的文化指的是思维方式，与他人的互动方式，价值观，内心世界观以及生活态度。

Will you notice that your ways of thinking and ways of interacting with people and value system changes and becomes more Chinese after living in China for a long time?

你会注意到你的思维方式和与他人的互动方式以及价值体系的变化，在中国长期居住后会变得更加中式吗？

I have heard that unlike in immigrant countries foreigners in China are usually or never fully accepted as Chinese.  My impression is also that typically foreigners will not think of their cultural identity as Chinese even after living in China for a long time. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

我曾听说，与移民国家不同的是，中国的外国人通常或从未被完全接受为中国人。我还觉得典型的外国人在中国生活很长一段时间后依然不会有身为中国人的文化认同。 如果我错了请纠正我。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

But have you noticed that your worldview changes the way the worldviews of immigrants to immigrant countries change after living in their new country for a long time as they assimilate?

移民国家的移民居住了很长一段时间后由于同化而导致世界观发生改变，你作为在中国的移民在居住了很长一段时间后有过这样的世界观转变吗?

The question is asking about your internal worldview.  It is a slightly different question from whether Chinese people will ever think of you as Chinese which I think of as a question of externally imposed labels.

这个问题问的是你的内在世界观，相对于”是否中国人把你当作一个中国人“有些微不同，我认为后者是一个强加的外部标签问题.

Is it different for foreigners who only socialize with foreigners and foreigners who socialize mostly with Chinese people?  Are there foreigners who socialize mostly with Chinese people?  Just curious. I haven't been to China in a long time and am no longer familiar with the expat scene in China.

那些只和外国人交往的外国人，和与大部分中国人交往的外国人是不是感受不一样？有没有大部分交往的是中国人的外国人？有点好奇。我已经很长时间没有去中国了，不太熟悉在中国的外国人情况。


-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Matthew Dolman Lived and worked in China since 2007.
Written Jan 21 2016
We moved to China when my eldest daughter was five months old and have been here ever since.  Apart from visits back to the UK almost all of her life has been spent in China.  She attended a Chinese kindergarten and speaks Chinese confidently.

当我大女儿5个月大的时候我们就移居并一直在中国生活到现在，除了偶尔回英国，她大部分的时间都是在中国度过的，她上中国的幼儿园，并且能自信的说中文。

From a Chinese perspective she will never be considered Chinese even if we were able  and willing to change her nationality.

从一个中国人的观点来说她将永远不会被认为是中国人，即使我们能够并愿意改变她的国籍。

The concept of being Chinese in the mind of a Chinese person is strongly associated with genetics and cultural heritage she is white has curly blonde hair and blue eyes and as such she just isn't Chinese.  Ironically a third or fourth generation person of Chinese origin that has never been to China doesn't like Chinese food and has no intention of learning the language would be considered Chinese in the minds of many people living in China.

在中国人的观念里，中国人的概念是跟基因和文化继承联系在一起的，她是个白人，有卷曲的头发，蓝眼睛所以她不是中国人。讽刺的是，那些从未到过中国的海外中国人第三代或是第四代后裔，不喜欢中国食物，并且也无意去学习中文，这对于生活在中国的人来说，他们也不被认为是中国人。

From our perspective she is also not Chinese but culturally not British.  She is probably halfway in-between or known as a "third culture kid".

从我们的观点来看，她不是中国人，但文化上来说也不是英国人，她可能是处于中间或者可称为“第三类文化儿童” 。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

How does living in China change your world-view?

住在中国如何改变了你的世界观？

As someone who speaks advanced Chinese and have spent a significant amount of time with Chinese people in my time here I would say that there are certainly parts of my world-view that have changed.

作为一个可以说流利中文并在中国居住了很长时间的人来说，我承认我确认有一部分世界观已经改变了。

I feel that one of the best things about how western civilisation developed is the willingness to learn from other cultures and allow them to influence the development of our own culture. 

我感觉对于西方文化发展的好处之一是愿意从其他文化学习并且允许它们来影响我们自已的文化。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

This being the case there are some positive aspects of Chinese culture that I believe that I have personally taken on board such as
R26;    the Chinese style of community
R26;    the willingness to negotiate in any situation (this could also be seen by some as a major negative as it facilitates corruption but it can be very nice).
R26;    Chinese people laugh and joke a lot more than westerners do when they are together I certainly find this is the case when I am with Chinese friends.

关于中国文化的积极方面我个人认为可以整理如下：
R26;    中国模式的社区
R26;    愿意在任何情况下商量（在某些情况下这也可以看成导致腐败的主要消极原因，但是这个还是不错的）
R26;   中国人在一起的时候，他们比西方人笑得更多，开玩笑也开得更多，当我和我的中国朋友在一起的时候我确信这一点。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

There are some neutral aspects (neither strongly positive or strongly negative) of Chinese culture that I also believe I have acquired such as
R26;    a more laid back approach to time-keeping
R26;    being generally less organised in life (which means less gets done but people aren't as stressed)
R26;    being less worried about meaningless things.  When I go home I see people getting angry about the smallest things that don't go their way.  Inevitably this anger leads to improvement but comes with the cost of peace.  China doesn't have this level of anger but also doesn't have the quality of service.

也有一些关于中国文化中性的方面（既不太积极也不太消极），我相信我也领会到了，例如：
R26;  守时方面比较懒散
R26;  生活方面不太有条理（意味着事情完成的较少但人们并不是很介意）
R26;  对于无意义的事情不会太担心。当我回家（在自已国家）的时候我会看到人们会因为很小的事情没有遵循他们的方式而生气，这种愤怒虽然可以促进事物的改善，但让人失去了和平的心境。。中国没有这种程度的生气，但也不会有高质量的服务。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

There are many negative aspects to Chinese culture that I consciously fully reject and hope that over time China will also reject.  Examples:
R26;    never question someone who is in a higher place than you
R26;    the face system in which people will make decisions based on how they predict they will appear to others rather than on rationality logic or their own personal desires.
R26;    the willingness to lie to someone to avoid embarrassment
R26;    a working attitude that says "as long as the boss is happy I don't need to try harder"
R26;    the list goes on.

关于中国文化也许多消极的方面，我下意识的抗拒了，希望这种情况在中国加以时日也会消失，例如：
R26;    永远不要质疑地位比你高的人
R26;    面子文化，人们以自己在他人心目中的形象预测为根据来作出决策，而不是根据理性，逻辑性或是自已的个人意愿来做决定。
R26;    为了避免尴尬而愿意撒谎
R26;    "只要老板开心我就没必要工作太努力”的工作态度
R26;    其他等等。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

I hope they reject these parts of culture not because I want them to become western but rather because I want them to have a better quality of life.
As some of these negative values are completely incompatible with my world-view I will never see myself as Chinese.  However my adoption of some of the positive and neutral aspects makes me feel like a Chinese person when I go to my home country.

我希望他们能改掉这部分文化并不是因为我想让他们变得西方，而是因为我想让他们提高生活质量。
某些负面的价值观完全与我的世界观不兼容，我永不会视自已为中国人，然而因为我吸收了一部分积极和中性的方面，所以当我回国的时候，这使我感觉像个中国人。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

Katherine Mesh China lover living and working in Beijing for 6 years
Katherine Mesh， 喜欢中国， 在北京工作了6年
Written Mar 31 2016
I think that China changes people more into being more open-minded and less uptight.

我认为中国改变人们的是变得思想更开阔，不那么极端。

I noticed that since I moved out of Russia I became less judgmental and care less what other people think about me than before. But in general changes that happened to me are mostly changes in speech: firstly if you are Russian living in China and working for international company you naturally speak at least 3 languages (Mandarin English and Russian) and sometimes you converse in language mix - some words are in Russian some in English and some in Mandarin - whatever language has the best word. For my Russian friends it sounds quite unusual and a bit strange sometimes. Also I have some Chinese speaking sounds even if I am conversing in my native tongue.

自从我离开俄罗斯我注意到我变得不那么批判性了，也不像以前那样介意其他人怎么看我了。总的来说，我的改变主要是在语言方面，首先如果你是居住在中国的俄罗斯人，并且在国际性公司工作，很自然的你会说三种语言（普通话英文俄语），有时候你的对话里会各种语言夹杂-一些是俄语，一些是英语，一些是普通话-不管哪种语言有最合适的词。对我的俄罗斯朋友来说听我讲话觉得很不正常，有时会觉得陌生。即使我用自已的母语交谈我也有会有汉语口音。

Personally I have no intention to be thought of as Chinese person - I believe that it is important to remember who you are and cherish your cultural inheritance even if you left your home country for good. And I think that foreigners cannot really be treated ad locals just because they are foreigners at least because China has entirely different laws that apply to locals and temporary residents.

个人来说，我没有意愿让自已被看作中国人-记得自已是谁，并珍视自已的文化继承是很重要的，即使你永远的离开了自己的祖国。我认为外国人不会被真正的视为当地人，因为他们只是外国人，中国对于当地人和临时居民有完全不同的法律。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

Mervyn Locke Enlightened laowai/Decade-long China resident/Permanent China bull
Mervyn Locke，开明的老外/ 居住在中国十年/ 看好中国走势
upxed Mar 23
I’ve lived in China for 10 years now and tried to move back to Europe after 6.5 years but failed and moved back. Why? I could not stand the rigidness the meticulous planning and only having two shades of grey (black and white) whereas all of China is one big grey zone.
Also after you’ve been accustomed to applying “cha bu duo” all the time it’s difficult to get rid of it. Foreigners get annoyed with me when I keep saying “whatever”. And not to mention the poor accessibility to shopping and eating out around the clock I cannot live without it.

我已经在中国住了10年了，在住了6年半后我试着回到欧洲生活但是失败了，又重新回来。为什么，因为我无法忍受那些硬性的规定，谨小慎微的计划和非黑即白的观念，而中国是一个巨大的灰色地带。
而且当你已经习惯了经常说“差不多”，你戒掉它会非常困难。当我说“随便”的时候我的外国朋友经常会很恼火，更别提在购物和吃的方面限制很多，无法随时随地的购物和外出就餐，这让我无法忍受。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

Anonymous
Written Jan 26 2014 R26; Upvoted by Paul Denlinger
I disagree with the premise that foreigners in China are usually or never fully accepted as Chinese. Being technically foreign or of foreign race isn't the actual problem at all; it's just that most foreigners even those fluent in Chinese are still extremely far from having a Chinese mindset way of thinking about the world personal habits and the entire rest of Chinese culture besides language. Even the way one approaches people introduces oneself facial expression it's all different. In fact fluent Chinese isn't even the most important thing.

我不同意关于外国人通常或永不会被接受为中国人的假设。严格来说是不是外国人或是外来人种并不是真正的问题；而是因为大部分外国人即使能讲流利中文依然无法掌握以下这几样东西：中国人的心态，思考世界的方式，个人习惯以及除了语言之外的其他中国文化。甚至是接近他人的方式、自我介绍的方式以及当时的面部表情都是不一样的。

For what it's worth I happen to be of non-Chinese descent and also not Chinese by nationality but all of my Chinese friends treat me as a Chinese because that is my only true cultural identity which I grew up with as a child. There's nothing below no dual identity nothing that makes me foreign except my outward appearance ancestry and my passport. Everything else is the same. Even the all the little cultural barriers and problems most Chinese students experience in the United States (where I live now) I share almost all of them as well.

我碰巧没有中国血统，也不是中国国籍，但我所有的中国朋友都将我视为中国人，因为这是我从孩提时就接受的文化身份。除了我的长相血统和护照其他的地方我完全看不出是一个外国人。甚至是一些大部分中国学生在美国（我现在生活的国家）所遇到的所有微妙的文化障碍和问题，我也会遇到。


I'm never ever addressed as a laowai or foreigner by people who know me well. But that's because I grew up that way and people understand that if I'm not treated as a Chinese I really have nothing left. I do think it would be really hard for someone to "become Chinese" if it's not their native culture as there would always be an innate underlying disposition. If they grew up in a Chinese environment as a child it would be entirely natural though.

我从来不会被认识我的人们强调我是个老外，不过这是因为我在那长大，人们也理解如果我不被看作中国人那我什么也不是了。对于一些不是他们本土文化的人来说“成为中国人”我想是非常困难的，因为这本来应该是原生配置，如果他们作为一个孩子在一个中文环境下长大那么就会很自然。

-------------译者：一只番茄炒鸡蛋-审核者：Momeo------------

Mario Rossi 4th year in China
Written Jan 18 2016
For what i've seen among people who lived many years in china there is no such thing as becoming more "chinese". that is regardless of the language is true for people who can speak chinese and people who cannot.

就我所看到的来说，在中国住了很多年的人们根本没有“变得更中国化”这种事情。不管怎样，这多少跟语言有点关系，不管会不会说中文都是一样的。

While  people who cannot speak chinese of course don't have "mostly" chinese friends (usually have no chinese friend) and live in a bubble (therefore is impossibile for them to become "more chinese") people who can speak chinese usually do not become "more chinese" as well because chinese people in almost any conversation remind you that you are foreigner so one never feel chinese culture as his on the opposite people tend to stick more to their original culture.

不会说中文的人当然就没有“大部分”的中国朋友了（通常一个中国朋友都没有），他们生活在透明圆形罩里，因此不可能变得“更加中国化”。那些能说中文的人通常也不会变得“更中国化”因为中国人在交谈时总是提醒你你是一个外国人，所以你永远不会觉得自己属于中国文化，相反，人们总是倾向于坚持自已的原生文化。

On the opposite of what Anonymous say here i've never ever seen a non-chinese (maybe it may be different for asian don't know) born and rised in china to become or be accepted as chinese even people with one chinese parent. Usually are always called foreigners. I don't know exactly how they feel.

与“Anonymous"(上一个评论的作者）所说的相反，我还从没看到过一个非中国人在中国出生和成长而成为或是被接受为中国人（我不太清楚对于亚洲人是不是不一样），即使父母有一方是中国人，通常他们也被叫作外国人，我不清楚他们是什么感受。