谁是更优秀的商人：犹太人还是中国人？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：Mr.ceer-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



Who are better businessmen: Jews or Chinese?

谁是更优秀的商人：犹太人还是中国人？


​-------------译者：Mr.ceer-审核者：skysonssk------------

Gabriel Chan Overseas Chinese（华侨）
upxed Mon
A2A’d — I’ve worked with Jews and Chinese.

回楼主——我曾经跟犹太人和中国人共事过。
 
Jewish and Chinese businesspeople do share a lot in common. They are quick to assimilate into their host countries. The overseas Jews are less cut-throat than the Israelis; the overseas Chinese are less cut-throat than the Mainland Chinese. They are open to experimenting with new ideas. They are proud and shameless in securing the best for their family and friends. They have supportive friends and family in wealth building endeavours. They see wealth building as a multigenerational exercise and make the sacrifices necessary for such projects. They are fearless in facing hardships (吃苦). They don't make excuses they fucking just do it. They are creative in doing it: if there's a loophole they will exploit it; if there's a life hack they’ll optimize it. They become scapegoats easily because they rarely fight back. They occasionally get persecuted or even massacred by fascist elements of their host countries (historically EMEA for Jews and Americas and SEA for Chinese but the most recent pogrom was in 1998 Indonesia).

  犹太商人和中国商人有许多共同之处。他们可以很快的融入他们所居住的国家。在海外的犹太人没有在以色列竞争激烈；在海外的中国人没有在中国大陆竞争激烈。他们放心的尝试新的主意。他们自豪并且问心无愧地让他们的家庭和朋友过得更好。他们在努力积累财富的过程中有支持他们的朋友和家庭。他们视积累财富为一个需要几代人完成的任务，并且为了这样的事有必要付出牺牲。他们不怕面对吃苦。他们不找借口一直努力奋斗。他们在工作上富有创造力：如果存在一个漏洞，他们就会利用它；如果生活中存在bug他们就会修复它。他们很容易成为替罪羊因为他们很少和恶势力争斗。他们偶尔受到来自居住国的法西斯分子迫害甚至是屠杀（历史上欧洲，中东和非洲都迫害屠杀犹太人，而中国人则在美洲和东南亚遭到迫害屠杀，最近的一次发生在1998年的印尼）。

-------------译者：Mr.ceer-审核者：skysonssk------------

The one big difference is the cohesion of the group. A Jew will almost always go out of their way to help a fellow Jew. It is not necessarily the case for Chinese. We (sadly) joke about how Chinese are better than anyone else at hurting Chinese and would betray other Chinese for profit. It’s bad taste for Jews to sell out their own if there was a non-Jewish party involved. There is a billion of us Chinese. We lost close to four times as many people as the Jews during World War Two and it didn’t really put a dent in our population. The poor Jews lost the equivalent of a Chinese village in terms of number of people but was a devastatingly high proportion of their population!

一个最大的不同点是团队的凝聚力。一个犹太人几乎总会竭尽全力的去帮助另一个犹太人。中国人却不一定如此。我们总是（悲伤的）开玩笑说伤害中国人最深的总是中国人，为了利益背叛其他中国人还是中国人。但是对犹太人而言在非犹太人面前出卖自己人那就太恶劣了。现在有着十几亿的中国人，在第二次世界大战期间我们失去了近四倍于犹太人的同胞但是并没有真正影响到我们的人口。就人数而言，可怜的犹太人仅仅失去了相当于一个中国村庄的人口，但是对他们的总人口来说却是一个毁灭性的比例。

-------------译者：Ness-审核者：skysonssk------------

Both Chinese and Jews like to make you feel comfortable even when you're getting roasted (screwed out of a deal or if you screwed up your job). For the Chinese it's more about theatrics and following social protocol (礼) — you see the extreme version among Japanese and Koreans. For the Jews they will be so blunt and serious about it (chutzpah) — you see the extreme version among Germans and Dutch — but they somehow make the situation fun and you feel like you should hate them but you love them.

中国人和犹太人都喜欢让你感到舒服，即使你惹人生气了（哪怕是交易失败，或者你把工作搞砸了）。从中国人方面来说他们有更多的是表面的礼节和随后的社会协议（礼）-你看到在日本和韩国的更极端版本。从犹太人方面来说，他们会显得对人情很迟钝的和真诚的（胆识）-你会在德国人和荷兰人身上看到极端版本，但是他们会把气氛搞得很轻松，你觉得你应该恨他们，但你爱他们。

Traits for good businesspeople are not genetic can be helped by culture can benefit from social class but ultimately is up to the individual. I think the most valuable trait is to be able to get shit done. The best businesspeople get shit done.

好的商人特质不能遗传给下一代，这种特质传递得益于文化和社会阶级，但最终取决于个人。我认为这些特质里最有价值的（是）尽可能把事情做好。最好的商人通过一切手段获得利益。

-------------译者：Ness-审核者：skysonssk------------

Vadim Berman
Sat · 10 upvotes including Gabriel Chan

An excellent comparison.

这里有一个很好的对照组。

I would also add another one: the Chinese are more comfortable working with larger groups while the Jews are more used to smaller groups (again many people vs few people).

我还想补充一点：中国人更乐于与大团体合作，而犹太人更习惯于和小团体合作（在许多人与少数人对比下）

I also observed that despite the vast differences the two groups get along very well. I was surprised to see that the Chinese despite the multitude of social protocols are often comfortable with extremely blunt Israelis.

我还注意到，尽管差异很大，但两组相处得很好。我惊讶地发现，尽管中国人有很多社交礼仪，但他们常常能容忍极其迟钝的以色列人。

My first encounter with the Chinese business culture was before the inflow of foreigners in China. I was haggling with a taxi driver in Beijing having eventually driven the price (apparently) lower than he expected. He asked me what country I was from and then we shook hands like after a sparring.

我第一次去中国遭遇中国商业文化时，那时候的中国还没有多少外国人。我有一次在与北京出租车司机讨价还价后最终成交价格（显然）比他的预期低。他问我是从哪个国家来的，然后我们握了手，就像打完一场拳击比赛后一样。


-------------译者：Ness-审核者：skysonssk------------

Michael Jacobs Never got to study at yeshiva but I made up for it after my Bar Mitzvah

Michael Jacobs没有在犹太学校学习，但我在受诫礼后这方面补课了

Answered Aug 3
Thanks for the A2A but my answer is I really don’t like to get into “penis-measuring” contests like this. So there really isn’t a meaningful answer.

感谢邀请我回答这个问题，但是我不大喜欢这种无聊的对比。所以这真的是没有一个有意义的答案。

Both cultures emphasize the value of education.

这两种文化都强调教育的价值。

Both cultures have been persecuted (when they are immigrants in a foreign land) and both have often GONE to foreign lands to BECOME merchants because that was one of the few professions or trades open to them under such conditions of persecution. Chinese IN CHINA like Jews IN ISRAEL may also be farmers garbage collectors hotel maids and so on as well as savvy businesspeople.

两个文化群体都受到迫害（当他们是外国移民的时候），他们都经常到外国去当商人，因为这是在这种迫害环境下对他们开放的少数行业或行业之一。在中国的中国人就像犹太人在以色列一样，他们可能是农民、垃圾收集工、酒店女佣、以及有头脑的商人等等。

-------------译者：Ness-审核者：skysonssk------------

Both cultures have a LONG literary and cultural tradition which provides a firm grounding in the importance of FAMILY and of COMMUNITY that is of being among fellow members of their ethnic group for mutual benefit and support. That in itself provides BOTH of those cultures with a significant “leg up” over other cultures which are so FIERCELY competitive WITHIN their own ethnic group that like a bunch of crabs trying to climb out of a boiling pot they only succeed in tearing each other DOWN rather than building UP a coalition to succeed among themselves.

这两种文化都有悠久的文学和文化传统，它为家庭和社区的重要性奠定了坚实的基础，而这些家庭和社区里是族群成员相互帮助、互惠互利。这本身就让这些文化具有了重要的“支撑”去越过在其他内部竞争激烈的文化。这些内部竞争激烈的文化就像一群螃蟹试图爬出沸腾的锅他们只成功地把对方撕下来，而不是建立一个联盟获取成功。

Neither though is UNIQUE in any of those features. Many other ethnic groups ALSO promote the value of education have been persecuted minorities have had to travel to far places to earn a living and stick together for mutual support.

尽管这些特征中并非是独一无二的。许多少数民族也提倡教育的价值并且受到迫害，这些少数民族不得不去很远的地方谋生，团结起来支持彼此。

-------------译者：Ness-审核者：skysonssk------------

I would say as long as what you’re doing is working WELL to provide security and prosperity for your family and those you care about WHO CARES whether it’s better or worse by some small margin than someone ELSE’S security and prosperity?

我想说的是，只要你所做的一切都能很好地为你的家人和你关心的人提供安全和繁荣。那么比其他民族厉害一点或者弱一点又有什么关系呢？

 -------------译者：五味子.-审核者：skysonssk------------

Michael Safyan Rabbi's grandson attended Jewish day school family spans denominations
Answered Aug 3
Not all Jewish people are the same; not all Chinese people are the same. Please stop generalizing to entire groups of people and trying to compare such groups that include many distinct individuals. Some from one group are better than some from the other and vice-versa and many are not business people.

不是所有的犹太人都是一个样子 ; 中国人同样也不都相同 .  请停止给一群人贴标签 也别再尝试对包括很多不同个体的群体之间做对比了 . 一个群体中的一些人比另一个群体中的一些人优秀 反之也是亦然 并且他们当中很多人都并不是商人 .

-------------译者：Ness-审核者：skysonssk------------

Richard Rotella
Answered Fri
Both Chinese and Jews share many cultural traits that facilitate their expertise in business.

中国人和犹太人有许多共同的文化特征，这有助于他们擅长商业。

Education: Both place a premium on higher education which quite often leads to self-employment. Few if any plan on working for some boss in the manual trades but prefer entrepreneurship and professions strongly favoring nepotism and intra-ethnic networking.

教育：都重视高等教育，这往往会导致自行创业。在手工行业中，很少有人会计划给老板干体力活，，但更喜欢创业和专业性强的职业，对裙带关系和民族内部关系网有偏好。

Risk-taking: Success in business means getting into the game. Chinese are the world’s most obsessive gamblers and will take a chance on any venture. no matter how fantastic. They thrive on partnerships and “tongs” (business alliances). Early Jewish immigrants were much the same often setting up sons-in-laws nephews and friends in business and arranging “profitable” marriages. Both groups were never discouraged by bankruptcies and often would start up another business with fullest confidence. Over the dinner table a frequent topic of conversation among both groups would be: “how to make money”…children eagerly absorbing the wisdom.

冒险：商业上的成功意味着进入游戏。中国人是世界上最痴迷于赌博的赌徒，在冒险中寻求机会，无论那些机会多么天马行空。他们靠伙伴关系和“钳”（商业联盟）茁壮成长。早期犹太移民经常通过女婿、侄子和生意伙伴，安排“有利可图”的婚姻这些途径建立商业关系。这些团体从未因破产而气馁，而且经常充满信心地开始另一桩生意。在饭桌上，这些团体经常谈论的话题是：“如何赚钱”……孩子们如饥似渴地吸收智慧。

-------------译者：haleyyen-审核者：skysonssk------------

Ambitious wives: Chinese and Jewish wives typically push their husbands and children to higher and greater levels of achievement. They are great boosters and sources of moral support and encouragement. They commonly participate greatly in the business.

雄心壮志的妻子们：中国和犹太妻子尤其会督促她们的丈夫和孩子争取更高更大的成就。她们是强大后盾、激励着人们向前的源泉。她们通常也会积极参与生意。
 
Adventurous: Often it is the Chinese and Jewish merchant who has the courage to venture out into remote or hostile territory to set up a lone business. To be fair Lebanese and Indians also share this and similar traits.

冒险精神：一般中国和犹太商人才有勇气冒险去遥远的甚至是不太友善的地区开创独门生意。公平地说，黎巴嫩人和印度人也有类似的特质。
 
Financial savvy: Both groups are skilled in banking investment and leveraging and albeit great risk-takers almost always rely on borrowed money for their business ventures.

金融见解：虽然这些人承担着风险用借来的钱进行商业投资，但两者都精通金融投资和举债经营。
 
Capitalism would be lost without them.

没有他们，资本主义就会无法继续发展下去。

 -------------译者：五味子.-审核者：skysonssk------------

Zi Bin Cheah living in China since 2010
Answered Sat
A Jew opens a petrol kiosk in a foreign land business is good. He invites other Jews and they open a restaurant and a movie theater business becomes even better.

一个犹太人在国外开了一个加油站 生意很好 . 他又找来一些犹太人 他们开了一个餐馆 一家电影院 生意做的更好了 .

A Chinese opens a petrol kiosk in a foreign land business is good. He invite other Chineses they open ten petrol kiosks in the same street.

一个中国人在国外开了一个加油站 生意很好 . 他又找来一些中国人 他们在同一条街上开了10个加油站 .

Note: heard it somewhere

注: 我在哪里看到的这个

-------------译者：Mr.ceer-审核者：skysonssk------------

Ralph Salier Cross Cultural Trainer (2004-present)
Answered Aug 3
Both are good at business. Having negotiated with both they have different techniques sensibilities desires expectations views of business and so on. From a Western perspective Jewish people will probably be more in line with Western perspectives while the Chinese will have a different perspective and as a result be more difficult for a Westerner to deal with. I know this first hand as a Westerner negotiating in China. The terms and conditions negotiated have far more flexibility from a Chinese perspective then we expect and thus need to be carefully negotiated and meticulously defined and proscribed and then insisted upon. I’ve not had to do this with people of other cultures.

他们都很擅长做生意。和他们进行交谈后感觉他们对于做生意有着不同的技巧、情感、欲望、期待以及观点等等。在西方人看来犹太人可能更加符合西方人的思考方式，然而中国人却会有不同的思考方式，这使得西方人更难与他们做生意。我知道这是一个西方人对中国的主观看法。中国人在条件和条款的协商上比我们想象的要灵活多了，并且因此需要仔细协商，精心解释定义和禁止条款，坚持原则。但是我却没有必要和其他文明的人这样做。

-------------译者：Mr.ceer-审核者：skysonssk------------

Tyron Nathan King lives in Bristol UK
Answered Aug 2
This question is based on commons stereotypes. So the answer will be a huge generalisation however I would say the Chinese are better business people in general. Whereas the Jews are better bankers.

这个问题是基于常见的刻板印象。所以这些回复都过于概括了。但是我想说中国人通常会更加善于做生意，而犹太人可能成为更好的银行家。
 
Madezhi Zhang
Answered Aug 3
Well I don’t know how Jews will answer this question.

好吧，我们不知道犹太人会怎么回答这个问题。
 
But most Chinese will say Jews are the best businessmen in the world…and we are the second…

但是大多数中国人都说：“犹太人是世界上最好的商人。。。然后我们是第二。。。”
 
You know Chinese are modest…

你要知道中国人是非常谦虚的。。。
 
Shmuel Aharon Kam Been doing this Jewish stuff for 40+years
Answered Aug 3
A2A.
I think that the question is offensive to both the Jews and the Chinese.

在我看来这个问题对于犹太人和中国人来说都太无礼了。
 
Generalizions of this type are meaningless.

这样的一概而论是毫无意义的。
 
Piet Bakx Retired psychiatrist
Answered Aug 3
One should not generalize. Stereotyping is killing human relationships.

不可以一概而论。地图炮（Stereotyping-刻板印象）会毁了人们之间的关系。
 
David Holland Accountant
Answered Aug 3
Definitely Jewish Chinese

当然是犹太血统的中国人了。