你怎么看待中国教育的不公平现象 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：Sinnreich-审核者：Sinnreich------------



What do you think about the unfair situation of education in China?

你怎么看待中国教育的不公平现象？


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Paul Denlinger Have lived in China Taiwan and Hong Kong; fluent in Mandarin (written spoken)
Answered Tue
What is unfair about it?
As a system it is designed to help hard-working students who are gifted in the STEM subjects get into the best schools and into government and the best companies.
Nobody claims that it is perfect or fair but it is designed this way because it is made to suit Chinese society’s current modernization needs. China does not place a high priority on lawyers (as the US does) or on artists; it wants scientists and engineers.
It does not do this perfectly; there are people who fall out of the system for different reasons. But all in all it works very well especially when you consider the huge number of people who go through the system. The system is not designed to favor a privileged few or the rich although being rich is definitely helpful.
A wealthy idiot like Donald Trump would not have been able to game the system.
Certainly you can find instances of unfairness but that does not make the whole system unfair.
2.3k Views · 102 Upvotes

曾经在中国台湾和香港居住过、并可以流利使用普通话（书写和口语）的保罗·邓林格：
什么是不公平呢？
作为一个系统，中国教育系统被设计用来帮助在科学、技术、工程、数学有天赋的勤奋学生进入最好的学校，并进入政府和最好的公司就职。
没有人可以肯定它是完美或者公平的，但是它之所以设计为现在的样子，是为了适应中国社会当前的现代化需求。中国并未高度重视律师职业（像美国那样）或者艺术家的工作，它想要更多的科学家和工程师。
它并不完美，有些人因为种种原因而掉出这套体制。但总的来说它的效果很好，尤其当你考虑到正在通过这套系统的庞大数量的人口。这套教育系统并不是被设计用来让少数特权阶层或富人受益，尽管富有是绝对有帮助的。
一个像唐纳德·特朗普一样的有钱傻瓜是无法左右这套系统的。
当然，你可以找到不公平的实例，但是那不会说明整个系统的不公平。

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Adam Yu Observer of Chinese society and politics
Answered Tue
The Chinese educational system is probably the fairest in the world.
Firstly it is important to keep in mind that:
Chinese education system needs to cater for HEAPS of students - 9 million students took the college entrance exam (does not include those who dropped out or went overseas)
China is still a relatively poor country especially outside the 5 major cities (Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Chongqing and Tianjin)
The Chinese College system is designed like a quality control factory - at each stage less talented students are culled and more talented students given more the opportunity to go to better schools. This funnelling system means that to enter into a good college you probably went to a good senior high school and by extension a good junior high school. I went to the top Chinese University for exchange and I estimate that 60% of the students I met went to one of the top 2–3 senior high schools in their province.

中国的教育体制可能是世界上最公平的。
首先重要的是要牢记这些：
中国教育体系需要满足成山成海的学生的升学要求—900万名学生参加高考（不包括那些辍学或者出国的学生）
中国仍然是一个相对贫困的国家特别是除了5个主要城市以外的地区（北京上海广州重庆和天津）
中国的大学制度设计得像一个质控工厂，在每一个阶段没那么有才华的学生被剔除而更有才华的学生被给予了更多进入更好学校的机会。这样的输送系统意味着想要进入一个好大学，你可能要上一个好高中，乃至要上一个好的初中。我进入中国顶尖的大学做交换生的时候，我粗略估计我遇到的60%的学生都是在他们本省排名前2到3名的顶尖高中就读的。

 -------------译者：璐璐爱丽丝-审核者：podbots------------

You may then ask - well isn't this proving that the Chinese education system is unequal? Why is there an unequal distribution of resources?
Well there is an unequal distribution of resources because of scarcity. Remember China is pretty poor and has a shitload of students. Having a funnelling system actually makes the education system more fair. This is because superior educational opportunities are given to many talented students. Furthermore this system minimises the socio-economic disadvantages many people in rural area may face as their children will likely be able to get educated in a larger better school relatively early on in their lives. Unlike the American system where ‘holistic’ applications often favour those from wealthy backgrounds to get into a good college into China they only look at one thing- marks. This means that no matter how rich your family is you cannot get in if you do not have the marks.

你可能会问：这不是证明了中国的教育制度是不平等的吗？为什么会有资源的不平等分配？

资源的不平等分配是因为资源匮乏。记住，中国是非常贫穷的同时还有着一大堆的学生。实行一种选拔式的体制实际上能使教育体系更公平。这是因为接受高等教育的机会要留给许多有才华的学生。此外，这个系统最大限度地减少穷人所面临的社会经济不利条件，他们的子女才能在相对更早的时候在更优质的学校受到教育。不像美国的体制，“全面发展”观念的施用往往青睐那些来自富裕家庭的学生使他们进入好的大学而在中国只关注一件事—成绩。这就意味着无论你的家庭多么富有，如果你没有成绩就不能入选。
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However the Chinese education system is discriminatory in the sense that students who reside in the same city (or province) often get bonus marks making it easier for them to get into their desired university. This advantage is especially significant for those who live in Shanghai and Beijing. I concede that this system is incredibly unfair although there is significant economic and social rationale for this.

无论如何 从某种意义上而言中国教育系统是有歧视性的 居住在(报考大学所在的)同一座城市(或者省份)的学生通常会得到奖励分数*从而可以更加容易的进入他们想进的大学 . 其中居住在上海和北京的学生的这一优势尤其明显 . 我承认这样的系统不公平到了让人难以置信的程度 然而这却是由经济和社会基础决定的.
*其实是大学分配给学校在所在地(省直辖市)的招生指标往往更多 所以本地学生往往可以以更低的分数考入. 而不是给额外的加分.

Nonetheless holistically speaking the Chinese system is very fair considering its constraints and is still very effective in acting as a way for poor people to climb up the social latter.

无论如何 大体上来说 考虑到其所受的限制 中国的教育系统还是非常公平的 而且仍然是底层人民非常有效的向社会上层攀登的一条途径 .

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Greg Blandino works at Beijing China
Answered Tue
The systemic unfairness of education in China is generally correlated to geography ethnicity and class.

中国教育体系的不公基本上关乎于理位置和民族还有社会阶层.

Geographically different provinces have different Gaokao tests. Students in Beijing and Shanghai take an easier test than or get a points boost compared to those in the provinces.

在地理上 不同省份有各自的高考. 北京和上海的学生用比其他省份更简单的卷子考试或者得到额外加分.

Ethnically speaking the unfairness is more mixed. Minorities get a point boost for being minorities. Han do not. Some minorities have to take a test in a non-native language. This basically ensures everyone is pissed off; the Han resent minorities getting bonuses the minorities resent being forced to take a test in Chinese.

至于民族上的不公平就更加复杂了. 少数民族的学生会因为身为少数民族而得到加分 汉族学生则没有 . 部分少数民族要使用非母语(指平时不说汉语的少数民族)进行考试 .这些(政策)基本上惹毛了所有的人 . 汉族学生讨厌少数民族得到的加分 少数民族学生则讨厌使用汉语考试.
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Class and geography are also tied together in the hukou system. The hukou system ties you to your birthplace regardless of your current residence with the effect of making it difficult to access social services for non-locals who have moved to cities to work including education. The children of these workers often receive a sub-standard education back home or their parents have to pay more to get them into a school in their city of residence.

阶层和地域因素同时也与户口系统捆绑 . 户口系统把你和你的出生地捆绑而不是你目前的居住地 这造成了移居到城市里工作外地人难以得到同样的社会服务 其中也包括教育.那些工人们的孩子通常只能回老家接受标准线以下水平的教育 否则他们的父母就要支付更高的费用才能让孩子在他们工作居住的城里接受教育.

What I think could be done to address these issues:

我的解决办法是:

Standardize Gaokao tests nationwide no extra points based on provinces.

全国范围统一标准的高考 没有基于省份的额外加分

Get rid of points bonuses for minorities but allow them to take tests in their own native language.

去掉少数民族加分但是允许他们使用本民族语言进行考试

If you pay taxes in a city you get access to social services in said city.

你在哪个城市交税 你就有权利在哪个城市获得社会服务.

Finally subsidize education in the poor provinces so that someone living in Gansu gets the same level of educational opportunity as someone living in Jiangsu. This can also help address some of the ethnic and class imbalances as they are also tied to geographical location.

最后 对贫困省份的教育要进行资助 以便像是居住在甘肃的学生可以接受与居住在江苏学生的同等水平教育的机会. 这同样也有助于解决民族和阶层的不均衡 因为这些因素同样也与地理位置相关.

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Steven Lee lived in China
upxed Wed
Chinese education system is basically a monolith with a lot of bureaucratic people. Everybody is aware of its inefficiency and unfairness yet nobody in this system is willing to do anything to make a real change.

中国的教育系统基本上是由一群官僚们负责的一块顽石 . 所有人都意识到它的低效和不公平 然而体系内部却没人愿意出来做些什么来改变它 .

I have no intent to repeat the universal knowledge that social inequality in essence is not inequality in wealth but inequality of opportunity. As far as it goes the current educational inequity is a culprit that rips the whole society.

我无意于复述常识 社会不公大体上并不是财富上的不均等 而是机会上的不均等 . 现在 教育不公已经是撕裂整个社会的症结所在了.

On the one hand as someone already pointed out that the Chinese (and NK) Hukou system (registration of residence) is ranked as the 3rd evil system in the world only after the apartheid regime in South Africa and the caste system in India. Under this system a lot of people are deprived of the equity of education right which breaks the ladder for upward social mobility. Higher education is increasingly becoming a privilege of the vested interests. Said that the kids whose parents have Beijing/Shanghai Hukou and school district housing are going to study at a prestigious school and become having-all while the rest going to a fish market school and ending up as having-none the plot which only happens in fiction Folding Beijing would eventually become a reality in some day.

一方面 就像有人已经指出的那样 中国(还有朝鲜)的户口制度(登记居住地)在世界上的邪恶制度里排名第三 仅跟在在南非的种族隔离制度和印度的种姓制度之后. 在这样的制度下 很多人丧失了均等的受教育权 这打破了向社会上层流动的阶梯. 接受更高的教育越发成为既得利益者的特权 . 据说那些父母有北京/上海户口和学区房的孩子可以上名校并成为人生赢家. 而其余的孩子只能上较差的学校 最终一无所有.这样只发生在小说《北京折叠》里的情节最终会发生在现实里的某一天.

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On the other hand the government should bear the responsibility to redistribute the uneven educational resources rather than sitting idle by and passing the buck. Isn’ t it odd that the first tier cities like Beijing and Shanghai have dozens of 985 Project Universities while some other provinces literally have zero? It's a disgrace that the CPC government marshaled the full resources of the entire country building a few showcases in order to let “part of people” enjoy the privilege as a great number of schools fund from state financial allocations while overtly uphold a pro-locals policy that recruiting vast majority of its students from the local city.

另一方面 政府应该承担起重新分配不均衡的教育资源的责任 而不是坐视不理和推卸责任. 难道像北京和伤害这样的一线城市拥有几十所985大学 而其他的省份近乎于没有不是很奇怪的事情吗 ?  这是可耻的 TG政府集中了整个国家的资源打造了少数对外展示的窗口城市. 为了让"一部分人"享受特权 他们从国家财政里拨款在那里建立了大量的学校 招收的学生绝大部分都从本地招收这样的政策明显是有利于本地的.

Fair play? It is a joke in this juggle.

公平竞争? 在这方面那就是个笑话.

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Sheng Zhong Answered Tue
Unfair situation of education in China? I am not sure what you mean.
The education system of China has a lot of problems which I have described in answers to some other questions. However it also has its own strengths the most important of which is fairness. Everybody has equal opportunities when facing Gaokao and Zhongkao. It’s unlike you-know-which countries where admissions are based on race and a lot of other non-academic factors.
226 Views · 1 Upvote · Answer requested by Yu Dou

中国教育的不公平现象？我不明白你说什么。
中国的教育体制存在很多的问题，之前我在回答其他类似问题时已经说过了。然而中国的体制也有属于它自己的优势在这其中最重要的就是公平。在面对高考和中考的时候每个人都有相同的机会。它不像你所知道的那些国家的招生是基于种族和其他许多非学业的因素。

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Sean McDirmid lived in Beijing China (2007-2016)
Answered Mon
Hukou is an internal aprthied system for China and should just go away as soon as possible.

户口是中国内部的隔离制度，它应该尽快消失。

On the other hand education in china does not have a stable public funding source (like property tax) leading to strict rationing of higher-end education resources (by hukou first then by merit). Until national fair school funding can be addressed adequately there will a huge difference between flagship public schools in first tier cities and toufu schools in the countryside.

另一方面，中国的教育没有任何稳定的公共资金来源(如财产税)，这导致了对高端教育资源的严格限制(首先是户口然后是特长)。在教育资金能得到公平的分配之前，一线城市的优等公立学校和农村的豆腐渣学校之间将会有很大的不同。

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Daniel Kallus Superior Agent (2008-present)
Answered Tue
What is it that makes you feel that Chinese education is unfair？

是什么让你觉得中国的教育是不公平的?

To those who think the resource is unfair can you explain why UK doesn’t send teachers from Oxford Cambridge UCL or Durham to say Stirling? Or how about US gives resource in Harvard to all the community college? If you think that Project 985 is unfair then certainly there will be no equal higher education in the world. Prestigious universities in the world away have better resource compared to those unpopular one whether in faculty facility or connection. You think writing recommendation letter is someway better than a test? Those rich have 1000 thousand ways to meet a well-known professor get a recommendation and go to Harvard while you have to wash dishes and go to community college. Fairness? Ridiculous.

那些觉得中国教育资源分配不公平的人能解释下为什么英国派牛津 剑桥 伦敦大学或者杜伦大学的老师去Stirling ? 又或者美国把哈佛的教育资源分配给所有的社区大学? 如果你认为985工程是不公平的 那么世界上的高等教育肯定就是不公平的. 全世界着名大学本来就是比普通大学好，不管是人员，设施还是关系，你认为写推荐信比考试还公平的吗? 那些富人有1000种途径结识一位着名的教授从而得到推荐去上哈佛 而你只能去洗盘子或者去上社区大学的机会 . 公平吗? 扯淡.

The one big mistake of Chinese education system is the expansion of higher education institutes in 1990s and 2000s China should just keep those project 985 universities and never open more access of higher education to the public.

中国教育系统最大的错误是高等教育机构在20世纪90年代到21世纪初之间的扩张 . 中国应该只保留那些985大学 并且再也不要开设更多的高等教育机构.