如何看待西方媒体污蔑中国拉拢欧盟组成贸易反美联盟？如果是真的那么欧盟会答应吗？ [美国媒体]

Should Europe accept China's proposal of anti-U.S. alliance on trade?

如何看待西方媒体污蔑中国拉拢欧盟组成贸易反美联盟？如果是真的那么欧盟会答应吗？



Thomas Hanson, History Buff, incessantly curious
Answered Wed
I think it is a smart power-play by the Chinese. I don’t think it will be successful, but it is a smart move. China is trying to limit US influence. Currently, the US is top dog on the global stage, as a military, diplomatic, and economic powerhouse. No one can really rival our military (sorry China), our diplomatic credibility is waning but still strong, and the only place that China can really rival our power is our economy.

我觉得这是中国人玩的权力游戏。虽然我不认为这会成功，但这手很聪明。中国正试图限制美国的影响力。目前，作为一个军事、外交和经济强国，美国在全球舞台上处于领先地位。没有人能真正的和我们的军队抗衡(中国也不行)，我们的外交信誉正在减弱，但仍很强大，中国唯一能与我们的实力匹敌的地方就是我们的经济。

The US has been pulling away from the world stage and been more protectionist on trade under President Trump. We have pulled out of the TPP (essentially a big alliances to limit Chinese influence in its own backyard and thereby help limit its ability to exert economic pressure globally). We are angry with NAFTA (ensuring that US resources are spent in areas where they can do the most good to our allies and to the homeland). And the tariff increases are just the latest phase of our war against our own economic health.

美国一直在退出世界舞台，在特朗普总统的领导下，美国在贸易上采取了更多的保护主义。我们已经退出了TPP(目的是限制中国在我们后院影响力的大联盟，从而限制其发展全球经济)。退出了NAFTA(确保美国资源用在对我们的盟友和祖国最有利的领域)。而提高关税只是我们一系列治疗自身经济健康举措的最新措施。

But how does this involve Europe? Europe benefits immensely from US trade and US from European trade. It is a good thing, a healthy thing. And yet with the US running around, reneging on trade agreements, creating tariffs with no cause, and generally annoying our neighbors and trade partners Europe might be looking at the offers the Chinese are making with some seriousness.

但这又关欧洲什么事呢？在欧美贸易中双方都得到了极大的利益。这是件健康向上的事。但随着美国四处惹事，违反贸易条款，突然上调关税，这一通动作惹恼了美国的贸易伙伴和邻居们。欧盟很可能会慎重看待中国提出的邀请。

That is a mistake. China doesn’t want nor need economic partners. They want economic slaves. For China, a better economy isn’t even the goal. It is about expansion of power. Economic power is one of the surest ways to ensure general power. It requires significant economic resources to be a military superpower, so if they have the largest economy in the world, they can pose themselves to be a military superpower as well as economic. And with the other two, diplomatic credibility (generally) follows. So for China, it is part of a larger strategy to spread its influences around the planet. And if Europe enables it, they will be powerless to stop its spread.

欧盟真的这样看就错了。中国不想也不需要经济伙伴。他们想要的是经济上的奴隶。对中国来说，经济变得更好甚至都不是主要目的。它真正想要的是权力的扩张。经济实力是保证总体实力的最可靠的方法之一。军事超级大国需要大量的经济资源，因此，如果中国是世界上最大的经济体，那它就可以成为军事超级大国。而如果同时拥有了这两个头衔，外交信誉(通常)也随之而来。因此，对中国来说，这是在全球传播影响力大战略的一部分。如果欧洲答应了这个邀请，那他们将无力阻止其蔓延。

This might seem slightly alarmist, but the facts remain. China rarely treats anyone on a fair basis, especially on an economic level. And with Europe’s economic unity in (let’s be fair, its in tatters at this point with all of the problems going on in the EU), China sees a ripe opportunity to expand, especially by taking advantage of US weaknesses.

这似乎有些危言耸听，但事实就是如此。中国很少公平地对待任何人，尤其是在经济层面。随着欧洲经济的团结一致(说实话，欧盟现在就是一盘散沙问题太多了)，中国看到了一个成熟的机会来扩张，尤其是利用美国的虚弱。

Ray Comeau, A decade in China, interest in geopolitics
Answered Wed
Thanks for request
China is inviting the EU to participate
“The summit is expected to produce a modest communique, which affirms the commitment of both sides to the multilateral trading system and promises to set up a working group on modernizing the WTO, EU officials said.”
Trump is seeking to:
Break-up the EU and has encouraged France to do its own Brexit
Break-up the WTO
Eventually the EU will realize what Trump intends to do to the EU.
China is doing what is logical, when Trump’s actions threaten the international rules for international trade created by cooperation among the worlds leading nations for many decades.

谢邀
中国是邀请欧盟参加中欧领导人会晤，相信通过会晤，中欧将进一步彰显全面战略伙伴的关系定位，进一步彰显维护多边主义的坚定决心，在共同维护以世贸组织为核心、以规则为基础的多边贸易体制。

而特朗普所追求的是：
破坏欧盟团结，煽动法国脱欧公投。
破坏世贸组织。
最终欧盟是会意识到特朗普想对他们做什么的。
中国的做法是正常合理的，因为特朗普的行动威胁到了世界各国花费数十年才建立起来的国际贸易秩序。

Madoc Karthaus, lives in Europe
Answered Thu
Pretty obvious if you think about it. Smart move, makes sense, but China is playing with fire here, the EU could unify in their hatred of the USA and rival China and the USA for world dominance and the “one superpower” title.

中国的行为是个人想想就能明白了。这一手很聪明也很合理，不过中国这是在玩儿火，欧盟可以把对美国的恨意团结起来对抗中美，以中美意图统治世界成为“唯一超级大国”为由。

Adrian Lee Magill, Video Company President/Artist BA SFU, VFS (diploma), Author
Answered Thu
I think this is to be expected when one country decides it is going to take on the world.
The world resents the United States right now and Trump has given China exactly what it wanted: a reason to solidify alliances and fill the vacuum that tariffs and counter tariffs between the US and other countries creates.
It is perceived in the world that there must be a world leader. It is also perceived that the US no longer wants the job. China is making a grab for the position and if the trade war does not hurt China too much in the long term, they might just start dictating the direction of the world economy.
If there is too much economic reliance on one country - any country - then they might just get that type of power.
I hope this helps.

当一个国家决定要挑战世界时，我认为中国的这种举动恰好是在预料之内的。
整个世界现在都在憎恨美国，而特朗普的所作所为恰恰正中中国下怀:一个巩固同盟势力、填补美国与其他国家之间的关税和反关税真空的理由。
在这个世界上，人们觉得必须有一个世界领袖。人们还觉得，这个位子美国已经坐不住了。而中国正在争夺这一地位，如果贸易战长期没有对中国造成太大伤害的话，那么中国可能就会开始决定世界经济的走向。
如果一个国家——可以是任何一个国家——在经济上过于依赖另一个国家的话，那么他们就可能被那个国家所取代。


Robin Daverman, World traveler
Answered Fri
Should Europe accept China's proposal of anti-U.S. alliance on trade?
According to the linked article, the so-called “anti-US alliance on trade” that China proposed was about two things:

根据相关文章，中国提出的所谓“反美贸易联盟”有两件事:

One: issue a “sternly worded letter against trade war” diplomatically,

一是在外交上发出“义正言辞的反贸易战宣言”

and two: jointly bring a complaint to WTO against unilateral US increases in tariffs, under the transparently fake “national security reasons”. Canadian milk, German cars, and Chinese industrial policy are not “national security” issues for the US, by any stretch of imagination.

第二，联合向世贸组织起诉美国以“国家安全”为借口，单方面提高关税。加拿大的牛奶、德国的汽车和中国的产业政策跟美国的“国家安全”问题怎样都不搭架。

Both measures are fully in compliance within the established international legal and diplomatic framework. Should Europe accept this proposal? Frankly, if EU has any pretension about caring for global welfare, it shouldn’t “accept” this proposal. It should be the one who proposes it.

这两项措施在完全遵循现今既有的国际法律和外交框架，是非常正规的。那么，欧盟应该接受中国的提议吗？坦率地说，如果欧盟对全世界人民的利益有那么一点点在意的话，那它就不该在这儿“接受”这个提议。而应该是提出请求的那方。

The big picture of this proposal is about taking the initiative to prevent the economic equivalent of “Iraq Invasion 2”. So far the US government has unilaterally announced tariffs against EU, China, Canada, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, India, … Rwanda, etc. All without prior consultation, in violation of WTO rules. This kind of disorganized, random, gratuitous, trade wars are not good for the rest of the world, and not even good for the US. Just like Iraq War 2.0. So the best thing to do, and the most responsible thing to do, is to organize a resistance with the goal of bringing everyone to the negotiation table, so that governments and business leaders can negotiate with each other in an orderly fashion, without throwing the whole world trade and financial transactions into turmoil. General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, Plaza Accord, Paris Agreement, … these are all negotiated in orderly fashions, with action plans preceded by gradual transition period, so that each government can use the time to put in the social and economic support structure for their citizens. This is the right thing to do, and the legal way to do it. Surely it doesn’t benefit anybody to be viewed as unpredictable and untrustworthy?

这一提案的主要内容是采取主动，防止这场贸易战演变为“伊拉克战争2.0”。到目前为止，美国政府已单方面宣布对欧盟、中国、加拿大、墨西哥、日本、韩国、印度、卢旺达等国家征收关税，均未进行事先协商，违反了世贸规定。这种无组织的、随机的、无端的贸易战对世界其他地区没有好处，甚至对美国自己也没有好处。就像伊拉克战争2.0。所以说最好的办法，最负责任的做法，是把世界各国组织起来把大家拉到谈判桌前，然后各国政府和商界领袖就能有礼貌地相互协商出对抗的办法，整个世界贸易和金融交易就不会陷入混乱之中。如《关税与贸易总协定》、《广场协定》、《巴黎协定》……等等这些都是类似的情形下达成的协定，这类过渡性条约，让各国政府可以有时间建立起相应的社会和经济结构来解决问题。这是正确的做法，也是合法的做法。当然，这种做法在某个被人认为疯疯癫癫、不值得信赖的国家看成对所有人都没有好处?

But will Europe take the lead and do the right thing? No, of course not. Have you seen a “sternly worded letter” from the joint European Union against Iraq War 2.0? Or the war in Libya or Syria? Even when these things are making millions of refugees storming Fortress Europe, the Mediterranean being filled up by the bones of thousands of migrants a year drowning in it, and the Nazis becoming fashionable in Europe again. A totally predictable outcome!

但请问欧洲会带头采取正确的行动吗？不好意思，当然不会。你见过欧盟“义正言辞”的反伊拉克战争2.0（贸易战）联合宣言吗？利比亚或叙利亚战争有反对过吗？即使战争导致数百万难民涌入欧洲，地中海也被每年成千上万移民的尸骸填满，纳粹主义又一次在欧洲流行起来。完全意料之中的结果!

The same lack of principle is put on display to the rest of the world once again. President Macron and Chancellor Merkel don’t seem to understand that if the US is intent on trade war, there’s no way Europe can escape. In fact, the economy of the US and China are largely complimentary - the US makes cars, airplanes, precision instrument, drugs, movies. China makes household electronics, clothing, toys, utensils. But you know whose industries are direct competitors with the US? Europe.

同样的道德缺失又一次展现在全世界的面前。法国总统马克龙和德国总理默克尔似乎不明白，如果美国有意发动贸易战，那欧洲避无可避。事实上，美国和中国的经济在很大程度上是互补的——美国制造汽车、飞机、精密仪器、药品和电影。中国生产家用电器、服装、玩具、工具。但你知道谁的行业是美国的直接竞争对手吗？欧洲。

The US has Boeing. Europe has airbus.

美国有波音公司。欧洲有空客公司。

The US has Ford and GM. Europe had BMW and Mercedes.

美国有福特和通用汽车，欧洲有宝马和奔驰。

The US has Merck and Pfizer. Europe has Roche and Novartis.

美国有默克和辉瑞。欧洲有罗氏和诺华。

The US has Caterpillar. Europe has Siemens.

美国有卡特彼勒。欧洲有西门子。

The US has F-35. Europe has Rafale.

美国有F-35。欧洲有飓风。

…
There is no Chinese brands in any of these high value-add industries on sale in the US. Europe and Japan are the ones with big market shares in the US domestic market. If you hit the Chinese, you’ll have to import the same stuff from Indonesia or Vietnam, because you are not going to take the $400 a month job sewing shoes. You still have the trade deficit, just from different countries. But if you hit these European brands, now that’s really going to do something.

美国的这些高附加值行业中，是没有中国品牌与其竞争的。欧洲和日本才是拥有美国国内巨大市场份额的国家。如果美国搞中国，美国将不得不从印尼或越南进口同样的东西，因为美国人不会接受每月400美元的缝纫工作。贸易逆差仍然存在，只是来自的国家不同而已。但如果你打击这些欧洲品牌，那就真的有点东西了。

And yet, the best Europe has to offer is “we can be your ally against somebody else”. Macron to Trump: "You need allies, we are the ally" Really? Like if someone breaks in your house to rob you, you tell him “please spare me because I can help you rob my neighbor’s house”? This is the much-trumpeted “European Value” in action?

然而，欧盟最绝的一点是“我们可以成为你对抗别人的盟友”。（新闻-马克龙对特朗普说:“你需要盟友，我们才是盟友”）我的天认真的吗？这就像有人闯进你家抢劫你，你对他说“放过我，我可以帮你去抢劫我邻居”？？?这就是欧洲人所大肆宣扬的“欧洲价值”?

So here we are, 500 million Europeans with nuclear arsenal need 300 million Americans to protect them from 100 million Russians, and a $17 trillion EU economy needs to throw other countries under the bus to save the bargain on ~ $400 billion exports. You can’t even make this sh*t up.

所以说啊，5亿拥有核武库的欧洲人需要3亿美国人来保护他们不受1亿俄罗斯人的伤害，而经济总量17万亿的欧盟，为了仅仅4000亿的出口关税就可以置别国的生死于不顾，连脸都不要了。

European Leadership, ladies and gentlemen.

女士们先生们，这 就是欧盟。

Andreas Mihardja, PhD from Georg-August University of Göttingen (1969)
Answered Wed
Why would China do it ? Is it their counteraction, for the US forcing the countries effected by the Steel and aluminium embargo to ally against China?

中国为什么要这么做?是反击行为，美国施加钢铁和铝关税是意图迫使这些受到影响的国家和美国联合起来对抗中国?

It is no secret, that their is anawkward pressure to every ally, that the US is imposing the tariffs, just to force the US ally’s, EU,Canada and Mexico, to unite against China to receive an exemptions from the steel and aluminium tariffs.

众所周知，美国给他们的每个盟友都带来了关税压力，美国正在征收关税，只是为了迫使美国的盟友——欧盟、加拿大和墨西哥——联合起来反对中国，以获得钢铁和铝关税的豁免。

The top Trump’s trade secretaries are negotiating this kind of action against China. Of course this Trump administration don’t consider using standards ethic. In negotiation it is a rule, that you never put your opponents against a wall and force them to take your term or get lost. This is called black mailing. Trump has put all the US-allies against a wall for unclear reasons using obscure defense laws of 1962 [the trade expansion act] and tariffs laws of 1932 , that has failed and not even touching / effecting the root problems in the US - China trade imbalance. Negotiation with ally’s must always be on equal footings. It is not the era of the Marshall plan anymore - all the allies are developed and rich. Results of this negotiation tactics the blackmailed allies will retaliate and the negotiations will go no where. The US allies regard the Trump administration as unreliable and will wait for the next administration. The Trump administration will of course become furious and take irresponsible actions. This kind of tactics was used against the DPRK and we will expect the same result - nothing will be achieved. Only empty wordings are being spread comparable to an gas-filled air balloon.

特朗普的贸易部长们正在就这种针对中国的方案进行讨论。当然，仁义道德不在考虑范围内。在谈判中，有一条规矩是，永远不要把你的对手逼到死角，迫使他们接受你的条件，否则就怎么怎么样，这样做就不是谈判而是“敲诈勒索”。特朗普利用落后又模糊不明的1962年国防法案(《贸易扩张法案》)和1932年的关税法案，将所有美国盟友抵在了死角，原因不明。与盟友的谈判必须始终是平等的。现在已经不是马歇尔计划的时代了——如今所有的盟友都是发达和富有的。被敲诈勒索的盟友将回敬以报复，谈判也会告吹。美国盟友们认为特朗普政府不可靠，将等待下一届政府上台。特朗普政府当然会变得愤怒，并采取不可理喻的行动。拿这种用在朝鲜身上的恐吓战术去对待别的国家结果当然是什么都不会实现，纸老虎而已。

Answering the question, “Should Europe accept the Chinese proposal —- “!.

那么回答“欧洲应该接受中国的提议吗?”

First of all there is no such proposal - probably from the Trump’s supporters corner, through their news sources.

首先，没有这样的提议——这可能是特朗普的支持者添油加醋加工后的提议。

Secondly, why should China do such an unethical action when two strong allies are quarreling. This is called the politics of “Divide et Impera” a tactic of colonial powers. I guess China will not use this opportunity to use such an unethical tactic.

第二，当两个强大的盟友在争吵时，中国为什么要做这种不道德的行为呢?这被称为“分而治之”的政治，是殖民的一种策略。我想中国不会利用这个机会来使用这种不道德的策略。

Third the US allies still don’t except China as their equals. For them China is their future competition in controlling the world hegemony. The control of the hegemony is now disturbed and out of balance by the Trump administration , but the next and future administration of the US will be in sync and be part of their orchestra again. Trump’s presidency is for them an unreliable ally and US will not be accepted as a serious country.

第三，美国的盟友们不觉得自己能和中国平起平坐。对于他们来说，中国是未来与美国争夺世界霸权的国家。现在，美国对世界霸权地位的控制受到了特朗普政府的干扰，失去了平衡，但他们相信未来下一届美国政府将再次成为他们的乐队指挥。特朗普当选总统对他们来说是一个不可靠的盟友，但整个美国并不是。


Mas Miwa, former Engineer at Hughes Space and Communications
Answered Wed
Europe is like the Titanic, she is sinking, but Europeans think she is unsinkable. Let’s see how many actions against the EU by Trump’s administration? Pull out of the Paris Accord on Climate Change. Pull out of the Iran Accord on nuclear disarmament. Condemn NATO nations for not paying their fair share. Criticized most EU leaders. We are attempting to renew diplomatic connections with Russia. We pull out of the UN Committee on human rights, We threaten to pull troops out of Germany. We threaten to not only tariff German cars, but ban them from the US. Now we have a trade war with the EU.

欧洲就像泰坦尼克号，她正在下沉，但欧洲人自信认为她不会沉没。让我们看看特朗普政府对欧盟采取了多少行动：退出关于气候变化的巴黎协议、退出伊朗核裁军协议、谴责北约成员国不支付其公平份额、批评大多数欧盟领导人、试图与俄罗斯恢复外交关系、退出联合国人权委员会、威胁要从德国撤军、不仅威胁要对德国汽车征收关税，而且还威胁要禁止美国进口德国汽车。到现在和欧盟打起了贸易战。

For those that think we still have an alliance that just needs a little repair, you are daydreaming. Maybe the Europeans don’t need to form an alliance with China, but they should certainly coordinate their WTO complaints before Trump pulls the US out of the WTO, as he has threatened. If the Europeans think they can work without China, they are headed in the wrong direction.

对于那些认为欧美仍然有联盟关系只是需要一点点小小的修复的人，我告诉你，你在做白日梦。或许欧洲人不需要与中国结成联盟，但在特朗普威胁美国退出WTO之前，他们当然应该协调中国共同向世贸组织申诉。如果欧洲人认为他们在没有中国的情况下也能生活，那么他们的方向就错了。

Hamadi Bahri
Answered Wed
It may sound like a good idea, but I don’t agree.

中国的提议听起来不错但我不觉得欧盟会答应。

True, it could be very tempting because of Trump’s behaviour, but I believe Western European governments will know better. Trump is Trump, but the US is still a member of the democratic countries club and it will end up recovering its senses, hopefully in a couple of years.

特朗普的行为确实激怒了他人，但我相信西方欧盟政府更清楚特朗普是特朗普，他不能代表整个美国，最终美国仍然是民主阵营的一份子，相信几年后美国会回头的。

In the meantime, Europe should of course retaliate against the US, by taking short term but radical countermeasures, so that the American government knows that there are consequences when you betray your allies. Even punctual agreements with China and Russia can be useful.

与此同时，欧洲当然可以报复美国，用短期而又激进的报复行动告诉美国政府背叛你的盟友是要付出代价的，甚至说是和中俄达成短期协议也是很有用的。

However I don’t see a real alliance with non-democratic regimes taking place against America. Because you may expect the US to come back to a decent behaviour, but not China or Russia. Not without a change of regime.

总而言之我不觉得民主国家们会和非民主国家一起对抗美国。你可能希望美国的行为重回正轨，但绝不以中国和俄罗斯的取代为代价。