【美版知乎】北京老外和上海老外如何看待彼此？ [美国媒体]

What do expats living in Beijng and Shanghai think about each other?

【美版知乎】北京老外和上海老外如何看待彼此？



【回答一】Kevin D. Aslan, lives in Shanghai（凯文D.阿斯兰，上海老外）

There’s a big difference between expats in Shanghai and Beijing: local integration.

上海老外和北京老外有一个很大的不同：本土化。

Simply put, it’s a lot easier to survive as a completely unassimilated foreigner in Shanghai than it is Beijing. You can get by without knowing any Chinese, you’ll find most of the food you want, and you can evolve in small bubbles of foreigners that feel just like home, without ever having to interact with the locals.

简单地说，作为一个完全没有被同化的外国人，在上海生存要比在北京容易得多。在不认识任何中国人的情况下，你还是能勉强度日。你可以找到你想要的大部分食物，你可以在外国人的小圈子里发展，感觉就像在家乡一样，而不必与当地人交流。

That’s a lot harder to pull off in Beijing.

在北京则很难做到这一点。

There’s a reason behind that. Partly, it’s because of the multitude of international firms headquartered in Shanghai - firms that tend to be more reliant on foreign staff - either because they want the brand to be perfectly respected with no Chinese shenanigans (think luxury firms) or they’re just more traditional (think luxury firms). Meanwhile, Beijing is most well-known for its State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs) where the ability to speak English is… absent.

这背后的原因之一，在一定程度上是由于上海有很多国际公司的总部——这些公司往往更倾向雇佣外国员工——它们想让这个品牌在没有中国人鬼把戏（想想奢侈品公司）的情况下得到完全的尊重，或者它们只是更传统（想想奢侈品公司）。而与此同时，北京最着名的是它的国有企业，英语能力并不重要。

There’s also the question of foreign exchange students. The universities in Shanghai mostly get European business students, who are there for anywhere between 6 months to a year. Now these students might start off with the best of intentions (‘I’m gonna work really hard and learn Chinese!’), but those dreams quickly come to a halt when faced with reality (‘Fuck… Chinese is hard. Maybe I’ll just learn pinyin… or maybe not - I’m about to go home anyway’).

还有一个原因，是交换生的问题。在上海的大学大多数交换生是欧洲商学院的学生，他们在那里的交换期在六个月到一年之间。这些学生可能一开始会怀着最良好的意图（“我要努力工作，学习中文！”)，但当碰上现实时，这些梦想很快打住，(“他妈的……中文太难了。也许我只会学拼音……或者也许不是，不管怎样，我想回家”）。



Who has time to learn Chinese with all these awesome parties going on??

有这么多棒极了的派对，谁还有时间学习中文？

Meanwhile, Beijing has a tendency to attract a lot more American students - often students who have been studying Mandarin for years, delving into Chinese history, culture and literature classics.

而与此同时，北京则有吸引更多美国学生的倾向——通常这些学生已经学习普通话多年，深入钻研中国历史、文化和文学名着。

History partly explains this split - ask a random French person for a city in China, and he’ll likely say Shanghai. We had concessions there, it was the pearl of the Orient. Ask an American, and he’ll say Beijing - think Nixon, the Olympics, etc…

历史在一定程度上解读了这种差别——随便让一个法国人说出中国的一个城市，他很可能会说上海。我们曾经在那里有租界，它是东方明珠。问一个美国人，他会说北京——因为尼克松，奥运会等……

So what does this mean for foreigners in both cities? Well, Beijing expats tend to look down upon Shanghai expats as being soft. Unintegrated. And in the worst of cases, lazy parasites that not only make no effort to discover this incredible country, but also do so while earning outrageous expat packages and providing no value.

那么，这对这两个城市的外国人意味着什么呢？嗯，北京的老外有点轻视上海的老外，认为他们挺软弱的，未融入当地。而且最糟糕是，这些懒惰的寄生虫不仅没有努力去发现这个不可思议的国家，而且还在享受离谱的让人无法容忍的国外就业优惠包（译者注：派驻国外的雇员可以从中享受住房和孩子上学的费用），却没有创造出任何价值。

Shanghai expats meanwhile? Every winter, we look north to where the wall of smog comes from, and we whisper a small prayer for our poor brethren beyond the air-conditioner line. We imagine the tough life they’re living, with no decent pizzas and beds made of stone, and thank the stars that we’re in the civilized part. Greg Blandino, stay strong my friend.

而另一方面，上海的老外呢？每年冬天，我们都朝向雾霾的来源——北方，低声为我们可怜的在空调室外的兄弟们祈祷。我们想象着他们的艰难生活，没有像样的披萨和硬邦邦的“石头”床。谢天谢地，我们在文明的那部分。格雷格·布兰迪诺（译者注：就是接下来这位答主），要坚强，我的朋友。

【回答二】Greg Blandino, works at Beijing, China（北京老外）
It’s hard to find any one thing that sums up how Beijing foreigners view our Shanghai brethren more than this Reddit post: Starbucks - Do they have Java Chip or something like it in China? • r/China

很难找到任何一件事比Reddit上的这个帖子更能概括北京老外对我们上海兄弟的看法：“星巴克——它们在中国有可可碎片星冰乐或其他类似的东西吗？”（帖子内容如下：）

Just landed back in Shanghai and it's HOT ... Do the local Starbucks sell Java Chip Frap or something like it (COLD)? After filling up my water bottles at PVG with HOT water something COLD would be ideal.

刚回到上海，天气很热……当地的星巴克会卖可可碎片星冰乐或其他类似的冷饮吗？在浦东机场，把我的水瓶灌满热水后，我觉得来点冷饮很理想。

Shanghai foreigners are also French. Also paid way more than us. Also gainfully employed in an actual business or industry of some sort and NOT running a blog on a lesbian basket-weaving commune in Hebei, pursuing a music career while working part-time at Happy Giraffe International English College Center Kindergarten, chasing the dream of being an arts and food reporter, or just blowing mommy and daddy’s money in a traditional courtyard home in the hutongs while experiencing a few years of authenticity.

上海的老外很多是法国人。他们比我们挣得多，被一家“真实”的公司或某个行业高薪聘用。而不是经营着一个河北女同性恋编篮公社的微博，一边追求音乐事业，一边在快乐长颈鹿国际双语幼儿园当兼职老师，追逐着成为艺术和美食记者的梦想，或者把妈咪和爹地的钱都花在胡同四合院里，体验几年真实的老北京。

Shanghai parties harder and better than we do, with hotter models, more blow, and less PBR or its Chinese equivalent. They are also worthless and weak, incapable of sucking down Hazardous level of PM 2.5 for weeks at a time without making Facebook posts about it. They likely use Line or Whatsapp for all we know, and view getting one’s bank card linked to their WeChat as a major achievement. Will excitedly tell you about the first time they used Taobao to purchase something last week. Strongly suspect the taxi driver is taking them the long way around, but feel he is poor enough to deserve the extra money.

上海的派对比我们的更酷、更棒，有更辣的模特儿，更多的卷哨，更少的蓝带啤酒或它的中国版。但上海的老外也是毫无价值的，虚弱的，如果不在脸书上发相关帖子，他们就无法连续数周吸入危险水平的PM2.5。我们都知道他们喜欢用Line或者Whatsapp（译者注：软件名），并把将银行卡与微信绑定起来作为一项重要成就。他们会兴奋地告诉你，他们在上周第一次用淘宝购物。他们会强烈怀疑出租车司机带着他们绕远路，但又觉得司机太穷了，值得拿到这笔额外的钱。

Meanwhile in the North Capital….

与此同时，在北方的首都……



A Beijing foreigner choosing to hang out with an elderly Chinese man practicing Tai Chi or some such thing instead of chatting up Russian models.

一个北京老外选择和一个上了年纪的中国人一起练太极或其他类似的东西，而不是和俄罗斯模特调情。

Meanwhile, Shanghai foreigners view Beijingers as weird “China enthusiasts” who have mustaches unironically, fetishize “authenticity,” and view living in China over 5 years as a badge of honor instead of “but where will you be based out of next?” They can speak Chinese, which is good on them, but shouldn’t they be busy pulling down fat expat package cash instead of trying to speak tones and master the hieroglyphics or whatever it is Chinese people write with? There are a small crust of embassy-pats that deserve respect for getting a cushy government job rejecting Chinese people’s Visa applications.

同时，上海老外把北京老外看成是古怪的“中国发烧友”，他们留着小胡子、盲目迷恋“正宗”，把在中国生活5年以上当做一种荣誉的象征，而不去思考“接下来要在哪里立足？”他们会说汉语，这对他们有好处，但他们本应该忙着拿丰厚的外派薪水，而不是学习声调和象形文字，或读些中国人写的东西。而那些拍大使馆马屁的厚脸皮是值得尊敬的，因为他们能得到一份拒绝中国人签证申请的闲差。

Beijing foreigners have a bit of the “loser who couldn’t cut it back home” vibe, who felt the need to leave their home country and try their hand over again in China. They’ve gone native, don’t eat enough fusion food, have local friends who they hang out with who are not English speaking Chinese girlfriends, and likely don’t own a suit. They will die 5 to 10 years younger due to their steady diet of “death cloud” they enjoy every summer and winter. They seem to be suffering from some sort of mass-case of Stockholm Syndrome that keeps them from moving to Shanghai and finding an apartment in the French Concession.

北京的老外中有一点“不能打道回府的失败者”的氛围，他们觉得有必要离开自己的祖国，在中国再次一试身手。他们已经入乡随俗了，不吃无国界料理，有一起结伴同游的当地朋友（当然不是指说着英语的中国女朋友），他们很可能没有一套西装。由于他们每年夏天和冬天经常吸入“雾霾”，所以他们会早死5到10年。他们看起来患上了某种大规模的斯德哥尔摩症候群，使得他们无法搬到上海，住进法租界。

Oh, I almost forgot: Beijing foreigners rock the Flying Pigeon bike, fixies, or some other bike mode of transportation. Shanghai foreigners moped around.

哦，我差点忘了：北京的老外骑飞鸽牌山地自行车、死飞自行车或某种其它的自行车。上海老外则骑电动车。

Anyways, I’m off to enjoy my Pizza Hut pineapple and unshelled shrimp pizza with those little mini-hot dogs nestled in the crust before I go shopping to stock up on coal briquettes for my kang bed I’ll be sleeping in all winter, Kevin D. Aslan. I heard they took away all your moldy cheeses down there in Shanghai, I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin right now. Tongue embedded firmly in cheek, Blandino out.

不管怎样，凯文D.阿斯兰（译者注：指上面那个答主），在我去为冬天睡的炕买煤球之前（译者注：回应上一个答主说北京老外睡硬邦邦的石床），我要先去享受下我的必胜客菠萝虾披萨，披萨皮里有小小的迷你热狗（译者注：回应上一个答主说北京老外没有像样的披萨吃）。我听说在上海，他们把你所有的发霉奶酪都拿走了，我现在正在演奏世界上最小的小提琴（译者注：貌似是比喻他现在肚子饿得咕咕叫）。开个玩笑，布兰蒂诺（译者注：答主本人的名字）出门了。

【回答三】Evgeny Bakhtin, lives in Beijing, China（北京老外）
I love both cities, lived both of them.

我爱这两个城市，在这两个城市都居住过。

Thought I like to compare ‘Shanghai vs Beijing’ as ‘New York vs SF’ and ‘Moscow vs St.Petersburg’ - means “Chicky and $$$” vs “Hipster and Culture”, so it tends to attract expats of relevant style.

我喜欢把“上海vs北京”比作“纽约vs旧金山”和“莫斯科vs圣彼得堡”——这意味着“小妞、金钱”vs“潮客、文化”，所以它倾向于吸引有相关风格的老外。

I also observe that expats who landed first in respective city tend to love this city and cannot stand another one. So it must be something deeply rooted in personality of the city.

我也注意到，老外们最先来到一个城市，往往就热爱这个城市，而不能再忍受另一个。因此，它一定是某种深深扎根于城市特性中的东西。

【回答四】Sean McDirmid, lived in Beijing, China (2007-2016)（北京老外，从2007年到2016年）
Not very much. I mean, they are different cities far away from each other. Heck, expats are kind of rare in Beijing, so we don't think much of each other either unless judging in sanlitun. Shanghai has more expats I think, but I assume they are similar to us?

并不是很好。我的意思是，它们是彼此遥远的不同城市。见鬼，在北京，老外有点儿稀少，所以我们不会对彼此想太多，除了在三里屯酒吧搭讪的时候。我认为上海的老外更多一些，但我猜想他们与我们相似？

【回答五】FJ Shi, lives in Shanghai
I heard a joke from an expat in Shanghai:
“If an expat in Shanghai start to look down expat from Beijing - you have been in China for too long.”

我从一位上海老外那里听说了一个笑话:
“如果一个上海老外开始看不起北京老外——那么，你已经在中国待了很久。”