美国应该从中国历史中学到什么教训？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：菊花与枪-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

What lessons should Americans draw from China's history?

美国应该从中国历史中学到什么教训？


-------------译者：bobo鱼0563-审核者：normalone------------

Feifei Wang I spend about the same amount of my life in China and in the US.
Answered 2h ago
Border Wall doesn't work.

城墙已经荒废。



Take it from a country that spend majority of her 3000-year-history building and maintaining border walls and still got conquered by northern nomads twice… It didn't work when everyone was travelling on foot and horseback. It certainly doesn't work when people can fly over it.

这样一个有着3000年历史的国家，其大部分时间都在建造和维护这座城墙（以保国家安危），却仍两度被北方的游牧民族征服过境过。在人们还是徒步或骑马旅行的时期就没起到（捍卫国界的）作用。更别说它能在敌人能在上空攻打国家的时候会起到什么作用了。

It worked against skirmishes and small scale raids. It didn't work against “illegal immigrants trying to get in" (you can just bribe the guards) it didn't work against stronger opponents who really seriously want to attack us (they can bribe the guards go around the wall take the keep by force and open the gate…). Almost every dynasty spend money on the wall and every dynasty fall at the end quite a few of them fall at the hands of outside invaders. The wall had not saved any of the dynasties from its fate.

它能在抵抗小规模和小范围的战斗中起到作用。但它无法抵御“非法入侵者的闯入”（你可以贿赂看守的士兵）它对那些真正想攻击我们的强大敌人也不起作用。（敌人会贿赂看守的士兵，包围城墙，用武力撞开大门……）。几乎每个朝代都会花钱修缮长城，但这些王朝最终都覆灭了，其中一部分王朝最后甚至沦入到那些外城入侵者（长城边界外）的手上。长城从没阻止过任何一个王朝的覆灭。

I think the best lesson Americans should learn from China's history is that tolerance equality and inclusiveness makes you stronger.

我觉得美国应该从中国历史中的学到的最好教训是，学会宽容平等，包容可以使你变的更强。

At a glace Chinese dynasties might all look the same but there're stronger dynasties and weaker dynasties. All of the strong dynasties share one thing in common: They're more progressive and tolerant of outsiders.

一眼看去，中国的各个朝代可能都如初一撤，但其中有繁荣强盛的朝代也有衰落软弱的朝代。不过所有强盛的朝代都有一个共性：他们更追求进步，能够容忍外来者。

One prime example was Tang Dynasty arguably the most brilliant dynasty in our history. We were the strongest nation in the world. Instead of building border walls we welcome people to trade with us. We send our princesses to marry leaders of our vassal states to create stronger bond. In fact this “marriage+trade" strategy worked so well Tang Dynasty had not spend much money on maintaining the Great Wall to the point some of the wall had collapsed due to lack of repair.

最好的例子就是在我们历史上被认为是最辉煌繁荣的唐朝。（当时）我们是这个世界上最强大的国家。我们没有建造城墙（阻止外人进入），而是欢迎人们来与我们开展贸易。我们把我朝的公主嫁给附属国的国家首领以此建立更强大的纽带。实际上这种“联姻+贸易”的策略确实起了不错的效果，唐朝并没有花费太多的金钱修缮维护长城，这也是导致部分城墙因失修而倒塌的一个原因。

-------------译者：C先生-审核者：yh呆------------

Tang Dynasty was one of the very few dynasties where women had some power they can divorce their husband and keep their property. It's the one dynasty that gave us the only female Emperor in our history and with her bunch of female ministers. Women would ride horses and go have good time with their friends no male company required.

唐朝是少数几个女性拥有权力的朝代之一，（在这个时期）女性可以与丈夫离婚并保留自己的财产。唐朝是我们历史上唯一有女皇帝和女官们当朝的王朝。女人可以在没有男性的陪同下骑马和自己朋友享受快乐的时光。

We were conquered twice once by Mongols second time by Manchus. Mongols established Yuan dynasty lasted a little over 100 years; Manchus established Qing dynasty lasted almost 300 years.

我们曾两次被满族人征服，两次被蒙古人征服。由蒙古人建立的元朝延存了100多年之久（只是稍微超出了100）;满族建立的清朝则延续了近300年。

Yuan Dynasty had a strict racist class system Mongols on top Han people at the bottom. Qing dynasty started out with a more strict class system but quickly loose the restrictions. Manchu emperors eagerly learn Chinese hire Han Chinese as minister marry Han women… basically Manchu realized they can't really rule China without Han people's help and killing them wasn't the solution… better get friendly and work together.

元朝有一个严格的种族主义阶级制度，满人最高汉人最低。清朝开始实行了一个更加严格的阶级制度，但很快就放宽了限制。满族皇帝热切地效仿汉族、雇佣汉族大臣、迎娶汉族妇女……满族基本上意识到自己在没有汉族人民的帮助下是无法统治中国的，杀害他们并不是解决方法…更好的方法是与他们友好合作。

Throughout history China was at its worst and weakest when it tries to isolate itself and implement strict social hierarchy against women and minorities. We're at our strongest when we open our border welcome people from the world encourage trade give women more freedom and power…

纵观历史，中国在试图孤立自己（闭关锁国）并对妇女和少数民族实行严格的社会等级制度时，是处于最坏和最弱的状态。我们在开放边境、欢迎来自世界各国的人民、鼓励贸易、赋予女性更多的自由和力量时是最强大的…

So… America remember this. Isolation is not going to keep you safe and strong. Trade works so much better than force.

所以…美国，记住这一点。孤立并不能保证你的安全与强大。贸易（合作）比武力（侵略）更有用。

-------------译者：老绵羊April-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Robin Daverman world traveler
Answered 4h ago
What lessons should Americans draw from China's history?

美国人应该从中国历史中吸取到什么样的教训？

A2A. Oh man I’m telling you the only relevant historic lesson America can possibly learn at this time is that a nation WILL NOT reform itself until it’s truly down and out!

至于问题的答案。（A2A=ask to answer）。 哦，伙计。我跟你讲，对此美国唯一可以学习到的历史教训就是，一个国家只有在真正被打败时才会进行国家大改革！

Feifei Wang
3h ago · 4 upvotes including Robin Daverman
My goodness that's a scary thought…

我的天这真是个可怕的想法……

Haiyan Chen Beijing (1989-present)
Answered 2h ago
There is an old saying in China:
中国有一句古话：
“国虽大，好战必亡；天下虽安，忘战必危。”——"no matter how powerful a country is it will lead to its demise if it is too bellicose.". Although the world is stable but if you forget the war the country will also go to crisis."

“国虽大，好战必亡;天下虽安，忘战必危”。 - “无论一个国家如何强大，如果太好战，将自我灭亡”。 虽然世界是稳定的，但如果你忘记了战争，那么国家也将面临危机。“

I think this sentence applies to any country also applies to the United states.This is just my personal advice.

我认为这句话适用于任何一个国家也适用于美国。这只是我个人的建议。

-------------译者：C先生-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Al Jones Lifelong student of American history.
Answered 14h ago
Just because you’re the biggest economy most advanced have an intimidating military and some of the world’s best cities and ports doesn’t mean that makes you invulnerable or even the enduring leader beyond a century or two.

尽管你是世界上最大最先进的经济体，拥有令人生畏的军事力量和一些世界上最好的城市和港口，但这并不意味着你就是无懈可击的或者在一两个世纪之后你还能保守住你领导者的地位。

Corruption is one of the most corrosive and cascading problems every country faces and beating it back is an endless battle rather than a press conference and high profile show trial.

腐败是每个国家所面临的最具腐蚀性且不断扩散的问题之一，打击腐败是一场无休止的战斗，而不是开一场新闻发布会或高调的作秀公审。

You never know where basic scientific research and innovative engineering will take you but skipping it as a frill or inconvenience is hugely costly if not near fatal over time.

你永远不知道基础科学研究和创新工程会引领你走向（怎样的未来），但是如果把它当成没必要的事或麻烦事从而将它跳过，随着时间的推移那代价就太大了。

Roads dams freshwater supply top soil health flood control port dredging/improvements energy supply livestock health and quantity food storage tech and capacity water/wastewater treatment and solid waste management matter enormously and to everyone. Politicians matter not so much other than how much they help or screw up the above.

道路、水坝、淡水供应、表土健康、洪水控制、港口疏浚/改善、能源供应、牲畜健康和食物供量、储备技术和能力、水/污水处理和固体废物管理对每个人都非常重要。政客们除了帮助或搞砸上面的事情外，对我们起的作用并不大。

The neighbors are always envious and feel threatened often with good reason.

邻国们总是很妒忌你，总是有冠冕堂皇的理由说他们感觉受到了威胁。

You’ll always have too many languages spoken within your borders to make education or communication easy or consistent but that’s easy to forget in the national capital.

你的国家里总是有太多种语言，这是为了能使教育或交流变得容易或连贯一致，但在国家首都这（那些语言）却很容易被忘记。

-------------译者：Jkingl-审核者：非命------------

Tom Liu lives in China (1993-present)
Answered 1h ago
Ok Feifei Wang’s answer is one of example of why American liberals and pretty bourgeoisie need to learn some basic historical and martial knowledge before they jump to certain conclusion.

好吧，网友Feifei Wang的回答是说明为什么美国的自由主义者和小资产阶级在急于下某种结论前需要学习一些基本的历史和军事知识的例子之一。  

First her point “Border Walls don’t work.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Allow me laugh before I correct the statement. The more accurate statement is that “The Chinese Wall’s function and effect is unquestionable while the Wall Mr.Trump is going to build is questionable.”

首先，她的观点是“边界的城墙并没有用”。“哈哈哈哈哈哈哈”，在我纠正她这个说法之前，先让我笑一笑。”对此更正确的说法是，“中国长城的功能和作用是毋庸置疑的，而特朗普将建造的墙才是让人值得怀疑的。”

Through Chinese history until 1840 the Wall has been a major defence from the annoying nomads in the North. It’s first function is to alarm and communication. In ancient times there was no telephone so the most effective way to convey the message that the nomads are invading is smoke. You ignite the wet hay on one post on the Wall and the next post will see the smoke you generate and do the same thing. This could convey the message to the headquarters within maybe one day and armies could be rallied.(I hope liberals know the basic knowledge that before going to battle armies must be rallied or otherwise the soldiers would be butchered like lamb) So when the barbarians reach the Wall on the ridges after the long march and be exhausted they would find a strong and big army waiting for them sharpening their spear and loading their crossbows.

纵观中国历史，在1840年以前，长城一直是防范恼人的北方游牧民族的主要防御手段。它的第一个功能是报警和通信。古代没有电话，所以最有效传递游牧民族正在入侵的消息的方法是点燃烽火。你在长城的一个烽火台上点燃湿草，相邻的烽火台就会看到你产生的烟雾，从而做同样的事。这能在一天之内将信息传达给总部然后集结起军队。(我希望自由主义者知道在战斗之前军队必须组织集合起来，否则士兵就会像羔羊一样被屠杀)因此，所以当北方蛮夷（游牧民族）在长途跋涉后到达山脊处的城墙时已经是精疲力尽，他们会发现一支强大的军队磨利了矛拉好了弩在等着（对准了）他们。

Some clever barbarian chiefs were smart enough to come up with the idea that they should bypass the Wall avoid the Han army and mount a surprise attack. But when they reaches the endpoint of the Wall they would find the very Han army waiting for them at the endpoint showing their fang to those barbarians. Why? Because the Han army could march on the relatively good road on the Wall while the barbarians could only march on the wild which has mountains and swamps. That’s the second function of the Wall.

一些聪明的蛮族首领想出了一个主意，他们应该绕过长城，避开汉军，发动突袭。但当蛮夷们到达长城的终点时，他们发现汉军在终点处露出其尖利的獠牙正等着（扑向）他们。这是怎么一回事。那是因为汉军可以在长城上相对（平缓的）道路上行进，而蛮夷们却只能在有山和沼泽的荒野上行军。这是长城的第二个功能。

-------------译者：C先生-审核者：NaP------------

And since the nomads have only one option for trade i.e Hans and they couldn’t forge metal things Han emperors could bring fierce economic sanctions on them with the Wall. They just issue an order to ban all the trade and wait for the nomads to use up their iron arrowhead and go weak. For example after the Zhu Yuanzhang of Ming dynasty chased the Mongol rulers to the North of the Wall the Mongol tribes were using bone-made arrowhead within 30 years. Not to mention other important things like salt and tea. (Nomads need tea for vitamin basic knowledge liberals) Because even if it may be relatively easy for army to get over the Wall if unnoticed it’s impossible for individual smugglers to transcend the Wall with patrols. Hence the third function of the Wall economic lock-down.

因为游牧民们只有一个贸易选择对象，即汉人；且游牧民他们自己无法冶炼金属。”汉朝皇帝可借长城实行贸易壁垒对他们实施严厉的经济制裁。他们只需发布禁令——禁止所有的交易，然后就慢慢等待游牧民用完他们的铁箭头（武器），然后（军队力量）逐渐变弱。例如明朝朱元璋将蒙古的统治至打赶至长城以北的地区，蒙古部落在30年内就只能使用骨制的箭头。更不用提像盐和茶之类的重要事情了。(牧民们需要茶来摄取维生素，这些可是基础知识，自由主义者们。)，即使军队可以在引人注意的情况下相对较轻松地翻越上了长城，对于单独的走私者来说，他们根本不可能在有巡逻队巡视的情况下翻越城墙。因此，城墙（边境贸易）封锁是第三个功能。

So in short the Wall is very effective in fighting against the northern nomads like Huns Mongols and Turks. Feifei Wang’s mention of the Tang Dynasty just makes her answer more ridiculous. Tang dynasty was open on the basis that there was no single regime could threaten our heartland at that time. She clearly mistaken the result for the cause.

因此，简而言之，长城在对抗匈奴、蒙古人和突厥人等北方游牧民族的战斗中是非常有效的。王菲菲提到唐朝也只是让她的回答更加荒谬。唐朝开放的原因是当时没有一个政权可以威胁他们的中心地带。她显然把原因搞错了。

Song dynasty lost the Wall so it was weak throughout its life. And Ming dynasty had the Wall so it took the general’s betrayal in charge of the Wall to let the Manchu army in.

宋朝没有城墙（长城）的保护，所以这个朝代在统治期间一直软弱。明朝有长城，但它遭遇负责管理城墙的将军的背叛，让满清军队进驻。

Back to the question what can USA learn from Chinese history? I don’t know. The ancient China was a country based on agriculture while USA is an industrialised country. USA is unlikely to go through the dynasty changes in ancient China. Enough of the cliche like humidity and piety or whatever. They are just traits every decent human being possess. Nothing special.

回到最初的问题，美国能从中国历史中学到什么?我不知道。古代中国是一个以农业为基础的国家，而美国是一个工业化国家。美国不太可能经历中国古代的朝代更迭。别再说些像人性虔诚（宗教）等的陈词滥调了。他们只是每个正派人都拥有的品质。没什么特别的。

-------------译者：龙牙知网-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Fred Landis worked at University of Southern California
Answered 15h ago
That very large countries like China Russia and the US have wild pendulum swings between centralized power and anarchy.

类似于中国、俄罗斯、美国这样的大国常在集权与无政府状态之间剧烈摇摆。（回答者大概是想表述国家政策的影响，但就中国历史而言的话，显然无政府状态总是由于中央失去控制力的战乱导致的，任何中国的中央政府总是集权、集权、集权……与美国不同。）

That the progess China has made seems to date from the agreement that all cats are black.

中国现在已经取得的进步似乎可以追溯到他们对所有猫都是黑色的这个认知上。

Once the fanatical totalitarian Chinese Communists with a MASTER PLAN for world domination (1950s US view) were willing to mix free enterprise with socialism there has been progress.

狂热集权的中国，曾经有过统治世界的邪恶计划（1950年代美国视角），他们愿意把自由企业与社会主义（观念）结合起来，他们在此方面已经取得了进步。

If you cannot get Republicans to accept Evolution and global warming how are you going to get them to consider socialist ideas that work.

如果你不能让共和党人接受进化论和地球变暖的概念，那你怎么让他们承认社会主义者的点子有用呢？(译者注：川普在竞选总统时称地球变暖是为了削弱美国的阴谋并在当选总统后退出巴黎协定。)

Self-criticism sessions started in China as a tool to harrass enemies of the Communist party but now has evolved into something more genuine. Maybe Washington Harvey Weinstein and CNN might learn genuine self-criticism.

自我批评开始于中国，被用作是羞辱骚扰党的敌人的一个工具，但现在演变为更纯粹的意义。也许华盛顿的哈维.韦恩斯坦（Harvey Weinstein）和CNN也该好好学习一下自我批评了。（译者注：批评与自我批评出自毛选第三卷，出现的时间远在党还弱小的时候，目的也是为了提高党的战斗力和组织度，显然此处回复者知识点有限；哈维.韦恩斯坦是美国电影巨头，被曝光出来潜规则了不少女明星和为了得奖不择手段，CNN你懂的，you are fake news!）

David Pan former Mercenary
Answered 18h ago
The best lesson from Chinese history is not to turn inward and isolationist. That is how power is lost and your country will be weakened against foreign enemies. Remain engaged and learn from them.

从中国历史上能汲取到的最好的教训就是不要内固和闭关锁国。这是为什么你对敌国威权丧失和国家衰落的原因。要保持参与国际事务并从中学习。