为什么西方人常认为中国深受无民主的苦难？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Why do Westerners often think that Chinese people are suffering without democracy?

为什么西方人常认为中国深受无民主的苦难？


-------------译者：风起云团-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Foster Winans Ghostwriter "The Man on Mao's Right" (Random House 2008) memoir of a Chinese diplomat who was Mao's inte... Answered Jan 28 2015
First Westerners/Americans know little about day to day life in China other than what they read or hear about in the press which mainly reports bad news because it attracts attention. We've come to view China as a threat both in terms of trade and military ambitions so we tend to find confirmation in episodes like tank man reports of worker abuses computer hacking pollution protests and all the rest.

首先西方人/美国人对中国及其人民的日常生活了解的少之又少，他们对中国的了解主要是通过各国媒体对中国的报道，而这些报道主要是为了吸引眼球而报道出的负面消息。如今我们已经把中国在贸易和军事方面上的野心视为威胁，所以会倾向于在诸如坦克兵、虐待工人的报道，黑客入侵，环保抗议等事件中来确认（中国威胁论）。

Second as the beacon of freedom in the world US citizens in particular measure all other cultures by how open and humanitarian they are. The history of modern China is quite different from ours—the state controls everything and that strikes us as oppressive which it is but has to be considered in context. Our heritage is euro-centric and we are baffled by Asian cultures. We can't relate and I would say there is subtle racism in Western cultures about Asians so we are more inclined to accept negative stories as true or representative of the Chinese people.

其次，作为世界的自由灯塔，美国人总是用开放和人道主义程度来作为衡量其他文化的标准。而现代中国的历史与我们的则大有不同——政府控制一切，虽然这在我们看来是一种打压，不过这需要结合具体情况来对待。我们的文化是以欧洲为中心而这使我们有别于亚洲文化。我们很难产生共鸣，而且我得说西方文化总是带着一些歧视来看待亚洲文化，所以我们更容易把一些（报道中国）负面的消息当真，或是以此来衡量看待中国人。

Third it has been the primary goal of the regime on Taiwan a province of China that's been in rebellion and protected by the US since 1949 to discredit and undermine the government of its enemy the Peoples Republic of China (mainland China). Taiwan interests have poured billions into the US over the past 65 years influencing our politicians our military and our media and the US has spent billions providing naval protection and modern weaponry to Taiwan to discourage the Peoples Republic from trying to take it back.

第三，台湾作为中国的一个省，自从其叛乱并自1949起接受美国的保护，其当局最主要的任务就是抹黑和破坏其敌人中华人民共和国（中国大陆）政府的形象。65年来台当局在美国投资了数十亿美元来影响我们的政客、军人和媒体，而美方也花费数十亿美元向台湾提供海军保护和现代化武器，以防止中国将其收回。

-------------译者：风起云团-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Meanwhile post-Mao Chinese governments have done a terrible job of communicating positive messages or explaining their goals in terms of domestic security and prosperity. We in the West either are ignorant or forget that up until 1949 when the Peoples Republic was founded China was an ancient feudal society whose traditions and practices may have been out of date but were and still are imbedded in their DNA. You can't just flip a switch and expect China to look like the US or any other long-standing democracy. 

与此同时，后毛泽东时代的中国政府在如何传递积极的交流信息或是解释他们如何维持国内稳定和繁荣这件事上做得很糟糕。我们西方人可能忘记了或根本就不知道中国在1949年建立人民共和之前就只是一个古代封建国家，其传统和做法可能已经过时但这些（传统）已经嵌入他们的基因里了。你不可能只需要简单地扭转一下开关，然后中国就会变得像美国或是别的那些民主（制度）已经存在已久的国家。

The Chinese people lack the same opportunities we have but as a culture they've managed to survive some 5000 years of various forms of oppression and are freer today than they've ever been. And they are as fiercely patriotic as Americans. When their country is criticized—even when warranted—they rush to its defense.

中国人缺乏那些我们已有的契机，不过作为一个文明古国，他们已经生存了5000多年，期间受到过各种压迫，而现在他们比以往任何时候都要自由。并且他们也像美国人那样“激进”得爱国。当他们的国家受到指责时——即使那是有必要的（指责）——他们也会急匆匆得（为自己的国家）进行辩护。

Spring Zhang lives in China Answered Jun 4 2016
I met a Canadian man who moved to China a few months ago.

我遇到过一个加拿大人，他几个月前去过中国。

Before he came to China he was worried about the food issue. He was under the impression that Chinese people were suffering from the food shortage. He thought that he might not find a place to eat.

在他去中国之前他曾担心过食物问题。他曾经以为中国人正遭受食物短缺的困扰。所以他觉得自己可能在那边找不到地方吃饭。

After he came to China he was amazed by the number of restaurants in China. He told his father if his father came to the city he lives for 100 days he could take his father to eat in a different restaurant everyday.

当他到了中国以后却惊奇得发现中国竟有大量的餐馆。他告诉他父亲如果他也来中国的话，来的100天里他们每天都能到不同的饭馆吃饭。

I was surprised by what he told me. I didn’t know that even in the 21st century even that you have access to numerous information you still could be oblivious to what really happens in the world.

我对他所说的内容很吃惊。我不明白，现在都21世纪了，你能有无数渠道来获取大量信息，而你仍然不知道这世界所发生的一切。

-------------译者：Oriri-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Mingjing Zhang A Chinese upxed Aug 31 2016
When I was a middle school student in Chinese schools back in the 1990’s we were taught that people in the west suffer from imperialism deprivation economical crisis drug-addiction and high crime rates. I never attended a western primary/secondary institution so I have no idea how they describe China and its ideology but the impression I learnt from my western friends is that somewhat equally bad things were said about China in their textbooks too.

在1990年代，当时的我只是一名普通的中国中学生，我们受到的教育是西方人民深受帝国主义、物资匮乏、毒品泛滥和高犯罪率的迫害。我没有在西方的中小学内受过教育，所以我并不知道他们是如何评价中国及其意识形态的。但是我从我的那些外国朋友那里了解到，他们的教科书和中国的类似，也在宣传一些关于中国的负面言论。

So to answer your question I presume that one of the reasons was because adult westerners who are old enough to make sophisticated diatribes against China were educated at a time when we liked to demonize each other. Once a first impression was established It’ll be very hard to remove unless there are strong evidence against it. To make it worse people are mostly interested in people who lead a better life than themselves not those who live a worse life. For instance Chinese people usually have a sense of what living in US is like and are eager to learn more about it; whereas very few people would know what it is really like to live in for instance Kenya. Same logic apply to westerners; they are not so interested to actually learn about China but instead rely on the media for anecdotal information about China. I would be surprised if any westerner who gain his information about China that way can form unbiased idea about China .

所以，回到对你这个问题的答案。我认为原因之一是，现在热衷于诽谤和抵制中国的西方人，他们接受教育的时期，正好是中西方互相对峙、互相妖魔化的时候。一旦第一印象形成，除非遇到强烈的冲击，否则很难改变。更糟糕的是，人们通常会对生活过的比自己好的人感兴趣，而不会去关注那些过得比自己差的人。比如说，中国人通常会想象在美国的生活是什么样的，并急切想更多了解美国的一切；然而，却少有中国人会关注肯尼亚人的真实生活状况。这样的逻辑思维也同样适用于西方人。他们并非真的有兴趣去研究和更多了解中国，只是依赖媒体上一些对中国轶闻的报道（来了解中国）。如果任何一个西方人在（如此渠道）下还能对中国持有无偏见的公正想法，我会很惊讶的。

EDIT:

编辑：

Some people questions the validity of my description. I originally used “pupil” then I realized I was already 13 and in middle school so maybe a little bit too old to be called a pupil anymore so I changed it to “middle school student”. Anyway every point I mentioned in that list was straight from the following book:

有些人会质疑我回复内容的准确性。我起初是用“儿童这个词，但后来我意识到当时的我已经是一名13岁的中学生了，这似乎超出了儿童这个称谓的年龄范围，所以我改用“中学生”。不管怎样，我所提到的每一个观点都直接来自于下列书籍：



From these books I first learnt about the fancy terms such as “economic crisis” and “imperialism”. Sorry it is impossible for me to find paper/electronic copies now.

从这些书本中，我第一次接触到了一些有趣的华丽辞藻，如“经济危机”和“帝国主义”。很抱歉，我很难找到印有这些内容的纸质/电子副本了。

-------------译者：wccvtv-审核者：wccvtv------------
 
Ray Comeau A decade in China interest in geopolitics Answered Aug 30 2016
As a general rule w=Westerners are very simple thinkers. Everything must be clearly different almost opposite by nature.

一般说来，西方人的思维都比较直来直去。如果要说任何事情都有显着区别，这显然是违背自然的。

It is black or white if you are right therefore I must wrong I win you lose if I profit someone must lose you are either with me or against me I like you or I dislike you you believe in my god or you are a heretic.

非黑即白，因为你正确所以我一定是错的、我赢你就输，一件事如果对某人有利那就一定会损害另一个人的利益、支持还是反对我、对一个人不是喜欢就是讨厌、如果不信上帝那你就是异教徒。

Westerners believe democracy is the best form of government ……. therefore anyone living under a communist authoritarian or other form government must have an inferior lifestyle and therefore are suffering.

西方人认为民主是最好的政体……因此，生活在共产主义独裁政府或其他政体下的任何民众，肯定都靠低劣的生活方式生活，因此他们在遭受（无民主的）苦难。

They cannot contemplate a bad democracy despite there being enough evidence. Instead they are called flawed democracies. Naturally when you believe in something facts are not relevant.

尽管有足够的证据，他们也不会采纳考虑一个糟糕的民主政体。相反，他们将这称为是有缺陷的民主政体。当然，在你对某件事深信不疑时，给你讲事实往往无法切中要害。
 
Michelle Zhou Answered Aug 22 2016 · Upvoted by Alex Chen Born and raised in China; currently a PhD student in University of Liverpool
Many will assume it's because people are ignorant because they were educated by school and media with propagandas. They do not understand the nature of the Chinese state and its relationship with society but yet think they can understand China by simply drawing on western experiences using western concept.

许多人认为人们是受学校和媒体的宣传教育才这么无知的。他们不了解中国国家的性质及其与社会的关系，认为用西方的概念和经验，就能理解中国。
 
Yes ignorance is one of the reason but why do Westerners "always" think that Chinese people are suffering without democracy?

确实，（人们的）无知是其中一个原因，但西方人为什么“一直”认为中国人没有民主就得遭受苦难呢？
 
It’s arrogance. There's a widespread assumption in the West that as countries modernize they also westernize. Because for the last 200 years the West has been so dominant in the world that there's no need for them to understand other cultures.Westerners think they are the best and therefore they have the universal measure and they refuse to address the issue of difference. Because by end of the day it could if necessary by force get its own way. They had a bad role model.

是傲慢在作祟。西方有一个普遍的假设，即随着一个国家的现代化，西方化也会同时发生。 因为在过去的二百年里，西方在世界上一直占统治地位，所以它们没有必要去了解其他文化。西方人认为他们是最好的，因此他们有普世通用的行为准则且他们拒绝解决差异问题。因为如果有必要的话，在一天结束之际它们就能用武力解决这种差异。他们有一个糟糕的坏榜样。
 
Ignorance can be overcome by education but arrogance is very hard to cure.

无知可以通过教育改善克服，但傲慢却难以根治。

 -------------译者：jimmy723-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Jason Stacy An American who finds China fascinating...
Answered May 23 2016 · Upvoted by Xinchun Li lives in China and Alex Chen Born and raised in China; currently a PhD student in University of Liverpool
Short answer: because we're simply not taught that way!

简单来说：因为我们不是这样被教育出来的!

I'm an American citizen and I like living here. As ridiculous as our national politics have gotten on the local level things work just fine. The potholes get fixed the streetlights work and the water that comes out of the pipes is clean. I'm happy with that and the system works for me… and it works because my needs are met. Isn't that what we all want?

我是个美国公民，我喜欢住在这里（中国）。就好比说我们（美国）的国家政治有好好落实到地方（政府）层面上一样可笑，（其实在中国）一切很不错。坑洼的道路得以修补，街灯照明运作良好，水管流出来的水是干净的。这一切都让我开心满意，且（这个制度）很适合我.......为什么说适合是因为它满足了我的一切需求。这难道不是我们都想要的吗?

But in school we're taught that our system is the best to the exclusion of others. Sometimes it's not done overtly: I remember seeing a diagram in (I think 12th grade economics) that showed economic freedom by country. On the far left in bright red was China and North Korea… and on the far right in a pretty light green was the US and Canada and Singapore and other such nations. The teacher didn't actually say China's system was evil but it sure looked sinister on that diagram!

但在学校里，我们被告知，我们的制度力排众议是最好的（制度）。有时这并不是很明显：我记得曾看过一个图表(我记得是在12年级的经济学上)，它显示了各个国家的经济自由（程度对比）。在最左侧，用鲜红色标记着的是中国和朝鲜...在最右侧的则是用浅绿色标记着的美国、加拿大、新加坡和其他各国。老师实际上并没有说中国的制度体系是邪恶的，但在那张图表上（中国对比其他各国）确实看起来更邪恶阴险!

In this country it takes an independent mind to realize that people in other countries can be happy even if they don't do things the same way. Because man we live in a meter-thick bubble of bulletproof glass here!

在这个国家里，你要有一个独立有主见的思维才能意思到，即使其他国家的人们不以同样的方式做事（运作），他们也能感到幸福。因为伙计们，我们是生活在一个一米厚的防弹玻璃泡泡里啊!

(Personally my perfect country would be a mix of American and Chinese thinking. If we could create a nation that combined American energy with Chinese planning and forethought a country that thought in terms of decades and centuries rather than four-year terms what a country it would be!)

(我个人认为，我认为的完美国家将会是美中的结合体。)如果我们能创造出一个结合了美国精神与中国的计划方针和远见谋略的国家，一个其远见思考不短至四年而是深思熟虑远至几十年和几个世纪的国家，那将是一个多么美好的国家啊!

-------------译者：jimmy723-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Bruce Li a Chinese with some overseas experiences Answered May 24 2016
My opinion is they are taught that democracy system is best. They are taught communism is evil. They are told by media that China has a lot of roblems(which is true but sometimes too selectively biased) and CCP will collapse.

我的观点是，他们被教导说民主制度是最好的。他们被教导共产主义是邪恶的。他们被媒体告知，中国存在很多问题(这是事实，但有时他们报道的选择过于偏激)且TG将会分崩离析。

Most of them never have a chance to visit China themselves. Most of them never have a chance to know this country through their own experiences. You may think they are kind of brainwashed by their textbooks and media.

他们中的大多数永远没有机会亲自参观中国。他们中的大多数永远没有机会通过自身经历体验去了解这个国家。你可能认为在某种程度上他们被他们的教科书和媒体给洗脑了。

But it is not their responsibility. After all a lot of Chinese people are also ignorant and have biases toward nations other than China. After all a lot of people do not care what happened in a foreign country be they Chinese or westerners.

但这不是他们的责任。毕竟，很多中国人也是无知的，对中国以外的国家也存有偏见。毕竟，很多人都漠不关心国外事，不管是中国人还是西方人。

Chinese political system is far from perfect but it is quite acceptable and it is part of reasons that help China to have a fast growing economic development in the past 30 years. CCP is far from the best ruler but most Chinese people are not suffering either. They are enjoying their life which is much better than what was decades ago. They know the country still has a lot of problems like corruption and pollution but they can see the government is trying to solve the problem. They believe the country is becoming better and better. They believe one day the country might have the ability to challenge USA. They are not suffering at least the majority are not.

中国的政治体制远非完美，但它在可接受范围了，这是过去30年内其帮助中国经济快速发展的部分原因。TG远非最好的统治者，但大多数中国人也没有受苦受难。他们享受着比几十年前好太多的生活。他们知道自己的国家仍存有很多问题，比如腐败和污染，但他们可以看到政府正设法努力解决这个问题。他们相信自己的国家会变得越来越好。他们相信有一天自己的国家有一天能与美国较量较量。他们没有遭受苦难，至少大多数人没有。

Westerners can come to China and see the country through their own eyes.

西方人可以来中国，通过自己的眼睛来看看这个国家。

Then they will not blindly trust what their media and textbooks say anymore.

这样他们就不会盲目相信他们的媒体和教科书上所说的那些了。