我刚发现了中国人和日本人之间的一处不同 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



heykarlll 于 3 天前 发表
A few Chinese were at the head of the line of a trendy new ice cream shop. Despite the long line the Chinese asked for a sample of each of the four ice cream flavors before deciding. A few Japanese next in line also were wondering what the new flavors were like lamented that they couldn't ask for a sample because of the long line and when they got to the window they quickly ordered one ice cream with one flavor and shuffled off. As I was waiting for my order later I overheard the Chinese happy that they were able to find the best flavor while the Japanese were happy they kept the line moving.

在一家新开的时髦冰淇淋店外的长队中，几个中国人排在队伍首。不顾身后长长的队伍，这几个中国人在决定要买什么口味的冰淇淋前，他们每种口味的试吃品都来了一份。排在他们后面紧接着的几个日本人也不知道该尝试哪种新口味，因为身后等候的长龙他们并没有要份试吃品；到点餐窗口时，他们迅速挑了一种口味的冰淇淋后转身离开队伍。在我等待自己点的冰淇淋做好时，我无意中听到那几个中国人很开心自己找到了最好吃的冰淇淋口味，而那几个日本人则很开心自己让队伍保持移动没有停滞不前。


-------------译者：雨天路滑当心-审核者：天河云------------

–]HopfroggUnited States 50 指标 3 天前
Drives me nuts waiting in a long ass line at KFC here... with a giant fucking menu to look at while you wait, and so many people here wait until they get to the register before they contemplate what they want.

在这儿的肯德基排超级长的队点餐真是快把我给逼疯了。即便等待的时候有巨大的菜单可以看，还是有那么多人非要等排到点餐台的时候再考虑自己要吃什么。

[–]fojiaotu 54 指标 3 天前
That happens in every country I've ever been to.

我去过的每个国家都这样。

[–]HopfroggUnited States 18 指标 3 天前
Yeah, but the percentage that it happens here is off the charts.

确实，但是发生在这儿的概率简直破了记录。

[–]ting_bu_dongUnited States 34 指标 3 天前
I figure the percentage of dipshits is about the same everywhere.
The overall volume in China is much higher, of course.

我想，这种笨蛋的比例在哪儿都一样，当然，在中国的人口总数肯定高多了。

[–]HopfroggUnited States 21 指标 3 天前*
I don't think they are necessarily dipshits... but there is something cultural here about having no awareness about inconveniencing others. A lack of empathy. I think it will change in the future, just look at Japan, an Asian country that may be more empathetic socially aware than any place on the planet, but for now, in China there is just a complete lack of awareness.

我觉得他们不一定是蠢货……但这儿有一种文化即没有意识到自己给他人带来了不便。缺乏同理心。我觉得这以后会改变的，看看日本，一个亚洲国家却比地球上任何一个地方更有社会同理心。但现在，中国极度缺乏为他人着想。

[–]TomIcemanKazinskiUnited States 11 指标 3 天前
“but for now, in China there is just a complete lack of awareness”
There really is. It's really cold in Shanghai - and yet the door continues to be left open at the coffee shop/restaurant/whereever I am for lunch by a PARADE of people.
The one thing I HAVE noticed though - is that if you point it out to people, they're very suitably embarrassed and will quickly look to reticfy . . .usually.

“但现在，中国极度缺乏为他人着想。”
确实是如此。上海现在很冷——但是不管我是去咖啡厅、饭店或者随便什么地方用午餐的时候，一群人经过后都不会顺手关门。但是我发现了一件事——那就是如果你和他们说明了，他们相应得会很尴尬，然后会很快改正……通常都是如此。

[–]tnp636 13 指标 3 天前
“... just look at Japan, an Asian country that may be more socially aware than any place on the planet,”
FTFY. Don't mistake fear of shame for empathy.

“看看日本，一个亚洲国家却比地球上任何一个地方更有社会同理心。”
才不是，别把害怕羞耻当做为别人着想。
-------------译者：雨天路滑当心-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]HopfroggUnited States 8 指标 3 天前*
I don't know, when I was there people seemed genuinely empathetic when no one was even around. I guess you could make an argument that it is just conditioning, but if someone bumped into me, they were profusely apologetic and it felt real. Admittedly, I'm no expert on Japanese culture though.

我不知道唉，我在那儿（日本）的时候人们看上去都真心地替别人着想，即便是没人在旁边的时候。我想你可以说他们只是习惯了，但是如果有人撞到我，他们会诚恳道歉，给人感觉很真切。诚然，我不是什么日本文化专家就是了。

Edit: In hindsight, "may be more empathetic than any place on the planet", that doesn't seem accurate. I don't agree it's all out of fear of shame, but yeah, socially aware is probably a better fit than empathetic.

另注：后面想想，“可能比地球上的任何一个地方都更为别人考虑”这句话并不准确。我不同意这都是出于羞耻害怕，但确实，更具社会意识可能比替别人着想更加准确。

[–]heykarlll[S] 9 指标 3 天前
also don't mistake fear of shame for lack of empathy. in my experience the lengths they go to to not inconvenience others shows they are able to put themselves in the others' shoes ie empathize

另外，别把害怕羞耻当做缺乏同感。以我的经验来看，他们为了不麻烦别人所做出的努力体现了他们能够站在别人的立场上换位考虑问题，这就是替别人着想。

[–]travelwithtbone 1 指标 2 天前
I think the thing you need to understand is the soto and uchi cultural aspect that exists in Japan and how face is interpreted. If they're outside and they're acting shameful, Japanese people feel they lose face, even if it's around people they don't know. So this is why you'll see people act so polite as a way to not lose face, not empathize. More often than not, people don't care, but they're doing it because they have to because it's polite / the tatemae.

我认为你需要了解下日本对内（そと）对外（うち）的文化层面，以及对脸面文化的理解。如果日本人在外面表现得很不体面，即使周围都是陌生人他们也会觉得很丢脸。这就是为什么你会看到日本人表现得十分有礼貌，不是因为理解和体贴他人而是为了不丢脸。通常日本人并不在乎，但他们这样做是因为他们不得不，因为这是礼貌/体面问题。

Chinese people, more often than not, don't care and make a rush to get what they want without thinking whose shoes are being stepped on while outside. If they're with people they know, face applies.

中国人在外面通常也不在意这些，他们为了追求自己想要的东西很是匆忙忙碌，不会去想他们踩到了谁的脚。如果他们和认识的人在一起，那他们也像日本人一样要脸了。

[–]Stock682 10 指标 3 天前
How a kfc menu can inspire so many questions....god only knows. Don’t forget the ones that need that stupid kfc app (pronounced A.P.P) explained

天知道肯德基的菜单怎么能引发这么多问题……别忘了那些需要那愚蠢的肯德基app（读作ei pi pi）应用软件的人。

[–]fungal_misdirection 3 指标 3 天前
There is something about KFCs in China that either attracts the simple-minded or causes people in them to become simple-minded. I've never seen anything like it in any other country or in any other fast food place in-country. It affects the staff as well.

中国的肯德基，要么吸引的是头脑简单的人，要么是使里面的人变得头脑简单。我从来没有在其他国家或国内的任何一家快餐店看到过类似的情况。这也影响了员工。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]mrfrosty2016Great Britain 0 指标 2 天前
I'm not disagreeing but I have also seen this same phenomenon occurring in Hong Kong for McD lines and they're not always mainlanders either it also includes locals and Filipino helpers.

我没有不同意，但是我在香港的麦当劳排队时也看到过这样的现象。也不只是大陆人，香港本地人和菲律宾的帮手也是如此。

Any time I go to a fast food place the order is placed in about 5-10 seconds because I know the question sequence and use Octopus card payment.

每次我去快餐店，5-10秒内就点好餐了，因为我知道他们会问什么，而且用八达通卡付的款。

Why does the indecision happen? Not sure but from personal observation I actually think it happens way more frequently with women and you can prob factor in some evolutionary reasons. But if you also add in the zero foresight chabuduo mindset and lack of empathy for those outside their social circles within Chinese culture that's going to dial it up to 11 in the mainland.

为什么人们会犹豫不决呢？我不是很确定，但是从我个人的观察来看，我真觉得女性犹豫的频率比男性高出很多，这可以从进化论的角度找出一些因素。但对于那些处在中国文化背景下却不在自己社交圈的人们的话，你还要加上没有远见、差不多心态、缺乏同情心的因素，这在中国大陆也是如此没什么不同。

[–]fungal_misdirection 1 指标 2 天前
I've noticed that in Taiwan it seems to be McDonald's that is more problematic then KFC whereas it's the other way around here. Not that McD's is a paragon of efficiency.

我注意到在台湾麦当劳似乎比肯德基问题更多，在这儿情况则完全相反。这并不是说在麦当劳排队的人们是效率的完美典范。

But I usually go to MOSburger when I need a fix.

但当我想快点（不想等太久）的时候，我通常会去摩斯汉堡。

[–]ineeditthatbadly 2 指标 3 天前
Don't forget arguing about the price in the shitty KFC app being slightly different to the instore price.

不要忘记肯德基那个该死手机软件上的价格跟店内的价格略有不同。

[–]scrimpin_aint_easy 2 指标 3 天前
Well it's that and they also get on some app to find the best coupon to use. I hate going to a fast-food restaurant when it's busy. The people here in China take FOREVER to order. May be great in academics but decision making skills is horrendous.

嘛，确实是这样，但你也可以在一些网上订餐软件上找到肯德基的一些最优惠的优惠券。我讨厌在很忙的时候去快餐店吃饭。在中国，人们点个餐花的时间太特么长了。也许他们在学术上很棒，但在决策技巧上他们实在够差劲。

[–]travelwithtbone 1 指标 2 天前
My favorite are the folks who use the cashier as a free psychologist before ordering.、

我最喜欢的一类是那些在点餐前把收银员看作是免费心理医生的人。

 -------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]DylanLeviKing 61 指标 3 天前 
I saw this posted on some Japan subReddit too although it's since been dexed. For whatever reason the poster has spread similar "Chinese people drive a car like this and Japanese people drive a car like this" shit across several subReddits.

我在红迪网网站的日本子版块上也看过这个内容，尽管它被删除了。不管是用什么原因，类似“中国人这样开车，日本人那样开车”这样的帖子内容横扫了几个红迪网（Reddit）网站的子版块。

China's fucked up obviously. The scenario should be: "I was ordering ice cream and some dude with a Louis Vuitton fanny pack stepped in front of me to order."

显然，中国（的名声）被搞臭了。情景大概是这样的：“我点了份冰淇淋，一带着路易威登腰包的哥们插在我的前面点餐。”

The idea that Japan is a fantasy world of politeness and etiquette is sort of played out. If you've come here longer than a vacation in Tokyo and Osaka's tourist-choked central areas you quickly discover that a combination of near-total isolation from society brought about by I guess crushingly long working hours deadly commutes and horrifyingly tiny living spaces conditions people to live inside of their own head. So it's not unusual for people to literally walk into you on the street. This is a good recent piece on the phenomenon: In Japan rarefied manners abound but courtesy is less common.

日本是一个充满礼貌和礼仪的幻想世界的这种想法已经过时了。如果你在这里待的时间比在东京和充斥着大量游客的大阪的中心地区度假的时间还长的话，那么你很快就会发现一种与社会几乎完全隔绝的组合，我认为这是由于工作时间长、拥挤累死人的通勤和令人难以置信的狭小生活空间使人们活在自己的幻想世界里。所以，你很少看到有人走在街上。这是最近一篇关于此现象的文章：在日本，粗俗的举止比比皆是，但礼貌礼仪却不常见。

As the article says: "While the protocols of formality are admirable if a culture does not also enshrine the quotidian compromises small and large that comprise simple courtesy the former are next to worthless. And in this respect Japan is woefully deficient."

正如文章所言：“虽然正式场合中的礼仪礼节令人钦佩，但如果一种文化不能在日常生活大小事中做到最基本的礼貌礼仪，那么前者体现出的礼仪礼节几乎是毫无价值的。就这一层面看来，日本严重缺乏（礼貌礼仪）“。

I sum it up like: Chinese people are rude on purpose and Japanese people are unwittingly rude because they do not notice other individuals moving around them.

对此我的总结是：中国人故意粗鲁无礼，日本人不经意间粗鲁无礼，因为他们没注意到其他人在他们周围走动。

[–]diffianWales 32 指标 3 天前 
“Chinese people are rude on purpose”
I've never felt this way about Chinese people I've always put it down to lack of education. Metropolitan Chinese people are not any ruder than your average Westerner it's only the rural bumpkins and geriatrics who appear to enjoy acting without consideration for others.

“中国人故意粗鲁无礼。”
我从没有这样想过中国人，我一直把它归结为缺乏教育。 大都市的中国人不会比一般的西方人更粗鲁，只有农村的乡巴佬们和老人做事看起来不喜欢为他人着想。

[–]Wellneed_ships 14 指标 3 天前 
“I sum it up like: Chinese people are rude on purpose and Japanese people are unwittingly rude because they do not notice other individuals moving around them.”
Nah mate Japanese people are quite good at noticing others around them like not standing at the bottom of an escalator/middle of a walkway/in a doorway whereas China is completely the opposite. The number of times I've had to stop dead in my tracks as someone in Beijing reaches the subway toll gate AND THEN stands to open their purse/wallet to get out there toll card vs. the number of times that has happened in Japan when I've lived/worked there (can't even recall once though it must have happened) boggles the mind. Its just one example but Chinese people are like this in a lot of ways. The number of times I've been in the same room/subway car with Chinese people who have their music/videos on their phones turned up to 11 with no headphones on is another example of this whereas in Japanese places it would be extremely unusual to have this happen. etc. Whether or not you consider those things rude I dunno. People in China don't seem to think they are. People in Japan do.

“对此我的总结是：中国人故意粗鲁无礼，日本人不经意间粗鲁无礼，因为他们没注意到其他人在他们周围走动。”
才不是这样。日本人很擅长注意周围的人，比如不站在自动扶梯的底部/人行道中间/门口（给他人通行造成不便）。而中国则完全相反。在（人流穿梭的）北京地铁的收费关口处，我多次不得不突然停止前行的脚步，因为有人会在排到自己后才会站在卡门处从自己的（女士）钱包/（男士）皮夹拿出地铁卡；而我在日本生活/工作的期间（这种事我虽然没碰到过一次，但肯定也是有发生的），这种事发生的次数少得令我惊异。这只是一个例子，但中国人在很多方面都是如此行径。另一个例子是，我多次碰到那些同我在一个房间/地铁车厢里的中国人，他们不戴耳机用手机外放音乐/视频的时候会将音量调到最大，而在日本这种情况极少发生。我不晓得你认为这种事粗鲁与否。中国人似乎不认为这是粗鲁的。而日本人则反之。

-------------译者：穿棋引线-审核者：hht288------------

[–]heykarlll[S] 3 指标 3 天前* 
yeah i don't think chinese are intentionally rude but even before the communist revolution they were pretty independent people when you throw mao and his great leap forward that destroyed families and culture you're going to have some uneducated people. they've just been brought up to put themselves first so it doesn't even occur to them they're being rude to others though im sure in some cases there are some who are aware and just don't care

是的，我不认为中国人是故意这么粗鲁的，但是即使在共产主义革命之前，他们也是相当独立的人。当毛和他的大跃进摧毁了无数家庭和文化时，这就产生了一些没有受过教育的人。他们被教育为把自己放在第一位，所以他们甚至都没想到他们对别人是很粗鲁的，尽管我确信有些时候人们是知道自己（对他人很粗鲁的），他们只是不在乎。

[–]impossinatorHong Kong 6 指标 2 天前 
Mate forgive me but you're talking out your ass. Mark Gottleib has almost certainly never lived on the mainland or he'd never have written such a stupid piece.

哥们，原谅我这么说，但你说话真是不经过大脑。马克·戈特利布肯定没在中国大陆生活过，或者他就写不出这么愚蠢的作品。

Chinese people are rude on purpose and Japanese people are unwittingly rude because they do not notice other individuals moving around them.
No mate Chinese people are rude on purpose and also don't notice people moving around them. At all. They have no problem stopping in the middle of entryways and busy thoroughfares love sticking their arms out and pointing at shit in the middle of a busy walkway changing directions mid-step without the slightest concern for anyone or anything around them.

“中国人故意粗鲁无礼，日本人不经意间粗鲁无礼，因为他们没注意到其他人在他们周围走动。”
不是这样的，哥们。中国人是故意粗鲁的，也根本没有注意过在他们周围走动的人。他们认为在入口处和繁忙的街道中间停下来是完全没有问题的，他们喜欢伸出手臂然后指着在一条繁忙的人行道中间的大便，走路时随意改变方向，对周围的任何人或事物毫不关心。

Japanese people don't generally do any of that shit unless they're 90 male and senile. The "Japanese people" who you think act like in Japan that are probably bloody Chinese tourists...

日本人一般不会做出任何这样的事情，除非是90岁的老年男性。那些做出这种事情你以为是“日本人”的日本人可能是该死的中国游客.......

[–]pssssssssssstUnited States 14 指标 3 天前 
If you go into a store you should sample and buy what you'd like. Sure limit what you try and be considerate but it's dumb to just go in and order something without trying it.

如果你走进一家商店，你应该品尝样品并买你喜欢的东西。当然，尽量限制你的尝试次数为他人着想下，但如果试都不试吃下就买下东西是愚蠢的。

-------------译者：aspenblack-审核者：hht288------------

[–]heykarlll[S] 3 指标 3 天前* 
The flip side is sometimes Japanese can be too considerate and not get what they want while sometimes Chinese can be admired for going for and getting what they want

另一方面，日本人有时因太体贴他人而得不到他们真正想要的东西，而中国人有时会因主动争取他们想要的东西而受到赞赏。

[–]YangKyle 13 指标 3 天前 
This is precisely why my Chinese wife is in charge of dealing with comcast....

这恰好是我的中国妻子负责与comcast（一家美国有线电视、宽频网络及IP电话服务供应商）打交道的原因....

[–]weirdchinaman 4 指标 3 天前 
I appreciate people that keeps the line moving. but in this case I think trying flavor samples just to help you decide what to buy isn't a huge deal customers wait for a long time everyone deserves to buy the most desired product. and this is not really notoriously slowing the line. Also just an encounter in an ice cream shop doesn't really represent a whole country right

我欣赏感激那些让队伍保持移动的人。但这种情况，我认为尝试不同口味的样品来帮你决定要买什么并不是一件大事，每个顾客都等了很长时间，每个人都值得买自己最想要的产品。这并不算是那种臭名昭着的拖慢队伍的行为。而且，仅仅发生在一家冰淇淋店的事并不能代表概论整个国家的不是吗？

[–]fungal_misdirection 1 指标 3 天前 
This is when the staff should be calling up the next in line while keeping an eye on the people sampling. Ideally you have one person taking order and the another filling. Basic shit.

这就是为什么工作人员在叫下个人的时候应该留意下试样人群。理想的情况是，一个人在点餐的时候，下一个人在旁（试吃样品做选择）。基本就是这样。

[–]yibaikuai 1 指标 3 天前 
if there is a line at all it's common courtesy to keep it moving... if there was nobody else in the shop or if they stepped off to the side to taste them while others continued their orders then that would be a different story

如果大家在排队，不管怎样，保持队伍前行是基本礼貌……如果店里没有其他人或者他们走到一旁品尝试吃，而其他人继续点餐的话，那又是另一回事了。

[–]heykarlll[S] 1 指标 3 天前 
At trendy new places there's always a line. I think you can do both get samples but try to eat it quickly to keep the line moving which is what I ended up doing. To me samples are like asking a question about the product

新潮的地方总是会有长队。我觉得你两件事可以同时做。拿试吃样品，但尽量快点吃完以保证队伍前行，我最后就是这么做的。对我来说，样品就像是对产品的提问（通过问题搜集信息，好比这个口味好吃与否）。