诚恳提问：为什么有些西方人想要生活在中国？ [美国媒体]

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freddyfreddios 于 4小时前 * 发表
I am ethnically Chinese was born in China (Harbin) and immigrated to Canada with my family when I was 5 years old. I love Canada. I love how open minded it is here and how many opportunities there are. I love how simple and easy it is to be happy in Canada. Most of all I love how I can actually trust the government and local authorities.

我是华裔，出生在中国(哈尔滨)，5岁时随家人移民加拿大。我爱加拿大。我喜欢这里开放的思想和机会众多。我喜欢在加拿大很简单容易就会过得很快乐的生活。最重要的是，我喜欢我能真正信任的政府和地方当局。

I visited China last summer and went back to my hometown. I enjoyed visitng my extended family but I certainly cannot imagine ever living there. Life just seems so...bleak and somewhat hopeless almost in comparison to life in Canada. Not to mention how creepy the amount of involvement the government has in daily life. And of course the corruption.

去年夏天我去了中国，回到了我的家乡。我喜欢与我的大家庭相处的时光，但我绝对无法想象自己有天会在那里生活。与加拿大的生活相比，这里的生活看起来是如此……惨淡，几乎有些绝望。更不用提政府在日常生活中所涉及到的广泛程度。当然还有他们的腐败。

So why would so many American/Canadian/British etc citizens willingly give up their life in a developed privileged country and move to China? By all accounts from this sub most of these people do not enjoy their stay in China due to cultural differences and understandably so. I have read many posts complaining about the behaviour of the Chinese and of the challenges of living there.

那么为什么如此多的美国/加拿大/英国等国公民会自愿放弃他们在一个发达特权国家的生活而搬到中国？由于文化差异，这些人中大部分人都不喜欢呆在中国，这是可以理解的。我读过很多抱怨中国人的行为和在中国生活所面临的挑战等文章。

Therefore why? In my opinion its akin to if a Norwegian citizen decided to move to Burkina Faso for shits and giggles. Why would you do this to yourself?? Why China? Why not Japan or South Korea or something? I really cannot comprehend this because my family uprooted everything to get a better life in Canada and for some reason the opposite is happening...

因此，为什么要来中国？在我看来，它类似于挪威公民为了搞笑、找死决定搬到布基纳法索（非洲国家）。你为什么要这样对自己？为什么是中国？为什么不去日本、韩国或者其他国家？我真的无法理解这一点，因为我的家庭为了在加拿大过上更好的生活而背井离乡，而因为某种原因，与之相反的情况正在发生…


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–]PolypinoonEuropean unx 12 指标 4小时前 
Money and job opportunity. You get paid much more than you would in the EU or NA and you can climb the career ladder much faster in Asia as a Western. Combine this with a low cost of living and you've got a combo that is attractive enough for people to be willing to ignore some of the unpleasantries of living in China. At least for a while.

为了钱和工作机会。在亚洲作为一个西方人，你的薪水比你在欧盟(EU)或北美(NA)的工资要更高，而且你在事业上会晋升得更快。把这与低生活成本结合起来，你就有了一个相当有吸引力的生活组合，让人们愿意忽略住在中国会有的一些不愉快。至少一段时间内会（忽略掉那些不快）。

[–]freddyfreddios[S] -6 指标 3 小时前 
Yeah I suppose. But there are more social safety nets in countries like Canada. And no amount of money will offset for a lower quality of life.
Plus my parents are immigrants and they make $200k+ a year. We live in a big house in a beautiful suburban town with fresh air and lovely scenery. Even those who make much less still enjoy a happy fulfilling life here.

是的，我想也是这样。但是住在像加拿大这样的国家里有更多的社会保障网。再多的钱也不能抵消生活质量的降低。另外，我的父母是移民，他们一年挣20万美元以上。我们住在一个美丽的郊区小镇的大房子里，那儿空气清新，景色宜人。即使是那些赚得更少的人，也享受着幸福充实的生活。

[–]joyosects 11 指标 3 小时前 
For people who make $200k+ a year I agree with what you are saying. But that's like 1% of people and not relatable for people who do move to China.

对于年收入20万美元以上的人来说，我同意你所说的。但只有1%的人口会是这种情况，对于那些搬到中国的人来说，这是不可能的。

I am a teacher. In the US I get to scrape by financially and teach students who mostly just don't give a shit while dealing with a lot of abuse. Teaching in China in international schools my students mostly do what I ask. The worst of my students don't pay attention/do homework. 90% of my job is actually you know teaching/preparing to teach. I take international vacations 3-4 times per year. I can save over half of my income eat out regularly and I have health insurance that is far better than what I would have in the States. Being here is a no-brainer for me.

我是一个老师。在美国，我可以在经济上勉强度日，但教的都是些大多对你不屑一顾的学生，同时还要处理一堆烂事。在中国的国际学校里教书，我的学生大多按照我的要求去做。我最糟糕的学生字是不专心听课或者不做家庭作业。我90%的工作都是上课或者准备上课。我每年有3到4次的国际假期。我可以把我一半的收入存起来，经常出去吃，而且我在这有的健康保险比我在美国的要好得多。所以不用动脑考虑就知道待在这里对我来说更好。

[–]freddyfreddios[S] -3 指标 3 小时前 
wow I see because in Canada if you are a public school teacher you are pretty much set for life. Its a cushy job especially if you teach primary school. Low class numbers high funding good pension.

哇，我明白了，因为在加拿大，如果你是一名公立学校的老师，你的生活几乎是没有烦忧的。这是一份很轻松的工作，尤其当你是小学老师的时候。班级人数少，工资高，养老金丰厚。

[–]khed 3 指标 2 小时前 
You obviously don't teach in Canada. I can't stand people perpetuating the false idea that it's an easy 9am-to-3pm job. In reality every teacher I know works well over 40 hours per week when you factor in planning marking meetings clubs/sports etc.

很显然你在加拿大不是教书的。我不能忍受人们一直错误地认为这是一份工作时间从早上9点到下午3点的很轻松容易的工作。事实上，每个我认识的老师每周的工作时间都超过40小时，因为你需要把教案准备、批改作业、开会、校方举办的社团/体育活动等方面考虑进去。

Teaching can be a decent career in Canada but it is far from cushy.

在加拿大，教书是一种体面的职业，但它丝毫不轻松。

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[–]krang123 6 指标 2 小时前 
People have this same misconception about teaching in the U.S. as well and it really pisses me off.

人们对在美国教书也有同样的误解，这真的让我很生气。

When I was a teacher in the U.S. I taught five separate classes a day. That was 25 lesson plans a week. Assuming just 20 minutes a lesson plan that's over 8 hours of lesson planning. I had 25-30 students a class. That's 125-150 students total. I had to read their papers. I had to correct their grammar. Assuming it took 10 minutes a student per week that's 20 hours of grading on top of the 8 hours of lesson planning and the 25 hours of instructional time you have to spend playing "whack a mole" with students half of whom don't want to be there or do anything. Not to mention all the other shit you've got to do.

我在美国当老师的时候，我每天教五节课。也就是每周要做25次教案。假设每次的教案备课只用花20分钟，那么每周在教案备课上要花费超过8小时的时间。我一个班有25-30个学生。加起来总共是125-150名学生。我不得不批阅他们的作业。我必须纠正他们的语法错误。假设（批阅）一个学生的作业每周要花10分钟，那就是在20个小时批改作业的基础上加上8小时的课程计划。另外，你还必须花25小时的教学时间和学生玩一场“打鼹鼠”的游戏，因为他们中有一半的人不想乖乖坐在位子上或做任何事。更不用说其他那些你必须要做的烂事琐事了。

Some jobs are cushier than others but the impression that teaching is some sort of cake walk is just absurd. Maybe certain gigs were a lot less stressful than mine was but it was a real bitch and it was hard to do a good job frankly.  It was terrible.

有些工作是比其他工作更轻松，但误认为教书是件很轻而易举的事简直荒谬至极。也许某些工作的压力比我工作的压力小得多，但当老师也有很多麻烦事，老实说，做好一个工作很难。简直是太可怕了。

Much happier now that I teach in China. 15 hours of instructional time a week a quarter the shit to grade more money a lower cost of living and students who respect and like their teachers.
It's a much better gig.

而现在在中国教书的我更快乐。每周15小时的教学时间，只花四分之一的时间，赚更多的钱，更低的生活成本，同时学生尊重和喜欢他们的老师。这是一份更好的工作。

[–]Stanshant 5 指标 2小时前 
Every post you've written in this thread makes you sound like a twat in a bubble.

你在这个话题里写的每一个帖子都更显得你是个活在泡泡里（生活舒适不知人间疾苦）的讨厌鬼。

[–]xiefeilaga 5 指标 3小时前 
Keep in mind that for the vast majority of westerners who come here doing so doesn't imply giving up their lives in the West. Most come here for a year or so to take Chinese classes or do a short job stint. Even the ones who stay longer expect to go home eventually even if it is only for retirement.

请记住，对于绝大多数来到这里的西方人来说，这样做并不意味着他们放弃在西方的生活。大多数人来这里待一年左右，去上中文课或做短期工作。即使是那些长期呆在这里的人也期待最后能落叶归根回到家乡，哪怕只是为了退休。

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[–]holidaycheerless 2 指标 3小时前 
I wonder if you might feel the same if your family was from Beijing or a first tier city rather than Harbin a cold coal city. Rural poverty is real and desperate but in the richer cities there's the emerging very sizable middle class who live materially westernized lives. Many people who aren't English teachers move there because they're interested in the culture or because there are so many business opportunities in trading finance. Why do people move to Siberia? Cause of oil and opportunity.

我很好奇，如果你的家人是来自北京或一线城市，而不是寒冷的煤矿城市哈尔滨的话，你还会有这样的感觉吗。农村的贫困是真实和让人绝望的，但在富裕的城市，非常庞大的中产阶级正在兴起，他们实际上过着西化的物质生活。很多不是老师的人搬到那里是因为他们对（中国）文化感兴趣，或是因为中国在贸易和金融方面有很多商业机会。人们为什么要搬到西伯利亚？当然是因为石油和机遇。

The problems you point out are real but why not the place with its incredibly rich literary artistic religious and philosophical history and all the historical sites and artifacts that haven't been destroyed? And it doesn't just exist in the past. For instance there's a thriving web novel publishing industry or the wuxia universe that doesn't exist in the western paradigm. There had to be a reason why the Sinosphere existed isn't there? The govt. is bad corruption is real but if the only picture you're getting of China is from the western media then you're doing yourself a disservice because China is not the equivalent of Burkina Faso.

你指出的问题是真实存在的，但为什么不是因为这个地方有着令人难以置信的丰富的文学、艺术、宗教和哲学史，以及所有未被摧毁的历史遗迹和文物呢？它不仅仅存在于过去。例如，在中国有一个蓬勃发展的网络小说出版行业，或者是西方（文化环境）模式中不存在的武侠世界。汉字文化圈的存在是有一定原因的，不是吗？政府是坏的，腐败是真的，但是如果你仅仅通过西方媒体去了解中国，那么你就是在助纣为虐，因为中国不是布基纳法索的翻版。

Disclaimer: you will be locked out of everything without Chinese literacy the beauty of Chinese as a language does not translate well

免责声明：如果你没有中文读写素养，你将会被一切拒之门外，因为言语不通，你无法体会理解中文这种语言的美。

[–]freddyfreddios[S] -1 指标 3小时前 
I can read write and speak Chinese so

我能读、写和说中文。

[–]holidaycheerless 3 指标 2小时前 
Great. If you are curious you can use baidu to check why leave China/why come back to China and every version you can think of in their forums. Posters can be Chinese citizens or those living abroad. You'll find that they agree on a lot of things everyone likes about developed countries but they also point out things that are great and unique about living there.

太好了。如果你好奇的话，你可以用百度来核实为什么人们离开中国/为什么回到中国，他们论坛里的每一个版本你都可以想一想。帖子可以是中国公民写的或者居住在国外的人写的。你会发现他们在很多事情上都是一致的，每个人都喜欢发达国家，但他们也指出了在那里生活的伟大和独特之处。

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[–]djxtg 5 指标 3小时前 
I'll break down my answer into a few parts that address your different questions - let me know if I didn't answer any or if you disagree with them.

我会把我的答案分成几个部分以回答你的不同问题——如果我没有回答你其中的某个问题，或者你不认同的话，请告诉我。

My family moved to the west to get a better life: If your family is like mine they emigrated to the west in the 80s when China was still a backwater. Back then western countries represented a wealth of opportunities that didn't exist in China. Today China's the world's second largest economy - so that dynamic certainly has shifted quite a bit.

1.我的家人为了过上更好的生活搬到了西方国家：如果你的家庭和我的一样，他们应该是在80年代中国还是一潭死水的时候搬到西方国家的。当时，西方国家象征着那些在中国不存在的大量机遇。今天，中国是世界第二大经济体——因此，中国的经济动态确实发生了很大变化。

Lack of government trust and other issues: I'd disagree with your statement in government / authority trust. Polls consistently show that Chinese citizens believe their country is moving in the right direction (see IPSOS Public Affairs study). I'd interpret this as a significant sign of trust with the government.

2.对政府不信任和其他等问题：我不认同你关于政府/权威机构的信任度的说法。民意调查一致显示，中国公民相信他们的国家正朝着正确的方向发展(看看IPSOS（益普索）公共事务的相关研究)。我把这看作是信任政府的一个重要标志。

You're right there are indeed issues like corruption and environmental pollution. Even then you can see the policy changes being implemented and progress being made to address these significant issues. Compare that to the governmental approval (president and congress) ratings today in the US (where I live) and the failure in progressing on any agenda or to even pass a budget. I'd say there is less trust and more frustration in the US than in China.

3.你是对的，确实存在腐败和环境污染等问题。即使这样，您也可以看到正在实施的政策变更，以及处理这些重大问题的进展。相比如今对美国(我居住的地方)政府认同度(总统和国会)的评价，以及在几乎所有议程上甚至是在通过预算的进展上的失败。我想说比起中国，民众对美国政府的信任更少，失望更多。

Degree of government involvement in daily life: This hasn't been an issue for me during my time in China. For longer-term residence and work there are hassles in permits. However this is true anywhere for foreigners. I haven't had significant government interactions or intrusions into my life outside of this. Perhaps this is something that differs significantly by locality. Admittedly I haven't been to nor lived in Harbin before.

4.政府参与日常生活的程度：在中国，这对我来说并不是一个问题。对于长期居住和工作的人来说，取得许可证有点麻烦。然而无论在何处，这对外国人都是如此。除此之外，在我的生活中没有任何值得注意的政府互动或介入。也许不同的地区有很大的不同。无可否认，我以前没有去过哈尔滨，也没有在哈尔滨生活过。

Cultural differences: I think everyone who moves to China expects this to be a big challenge from just the language to differences in socially acceptable behaviors. When in Rome...

5.文化差异：我认为这对每个搬到中国的人来说都是个一个巨大的挑战，从语言到社会可接受行为上都有差异。但是入乡就得随俗啊........

[–]MurphyMurphyMurphy 4 指标 1小时前 
You have to realize that you're asking this question from a privileged position. Yea if both my parents made the money yours did my life would have probably been very different and I would not be in China.

你必须意识到你是站在一个生活优越富足的人的角度来问这个问题的。是的，如果我的父母能像你的父母一样赚的那么多，我的生活可能会大不相同，我也不会来中国。

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[–]nerbovigUnited States 9 指标 4小时前 
Short answer: there are three types of people that come to China:

简短回答：有这么三种类型的人会来中国:

Missionaries: They're compelled by their god to save your eternal soul. No attempt at rationalizing will be successful.

传教士：他们被他们的上帝强迫派遣来拯救你永恒的灵魂。任何试图合理化的尝试都不会成功。

Mercenaries: They're there for the money. Their foreign company compensates them very well for being there much more than they'd get back home.

雇佣兵们：他们是为了钱才来的。他们的外国公司给他们在那工作的报酬非常丰厚，比他们在本国的时候要多得多。

Misfits: The wierdos. They like the challenge of being in a new culture and language environment they don't miss their friends and family back home or they just want to work a few hours a week and spend the rest drinking smoking and getting massages.

格格不入的人：怪人。他们喜欢在新的文化和语言环境中所面临的挑战，他们完全不会想念他们在家乡的朋友和家人，或者他们只是单纯想每周仅需工作几个小时，剩下的时间都用来喝酒、抽烟和享受按摩。

I've yet to meet a foreigner in China who didn't fit rather well in one of those three categories.

我在中国还没遇到过不属于这三种类型的外国人。

[–]metalgearexMacau 3 指标 3小时前 
pretty much this. many fit in to all three categories to varying degrees. china is just a place to learn a few things and earn monies. it by no means is a long-term destination for anyone but the most dedicated. so in many ways it can't be compared to OP's situation.

差不多是这样。很多人在不同程度上都会符合这三种类型。中国只是一个学习和赚钱的地方。它绝不是任何人的长期居住理想地，但却是最专用的目的地。所以在很多方面它都不能与楼主所处的情况相比较。

[–]nerbovigUnited States 3 指标 3小时前* 
Yes it's definitely not an immigrant destination. I've only known one person who plans to live in China permanently who's quality of life actually improved and that's because he married someone who's quite wealthy.

是的，它绝对不是移民目的地。我只认识一个计划在中国永久居住的人，他的生活质量实际上得到了改善，这是因为他娶了一个相当富有的人。

[–]freddyfreddios[S] -4 指标 4小时前 
My family is Christian (we wouldnt be allowed to be if we still lived in China) so i get the missionary thing. I also understand #2 although I personally wouldnt work and live in China no matter how much money I got paid but #3 is just so odd to me. China isnt like the West the people will never truly accept foreigners into their fabric of life. Why would one choose to live like that.

我的家人信基督教(如果我们还住在中国的话，我们是不被允许信基督教的)，所以传教士那点我懂。我也明白你第2点所说的，虽然我个人是不管我会拿到多少薪酬，我也不会在中国工作和生活，但是第3点对我来说太奇怪了。中国不像西方，人们永远不会真正接受外国人进入他们的生活。为什么人们会选择那样的生活呢?

[–]the_kongman 4 指标 2小时前 
Who gave you the idea you can’t be Christian in China?

谁告诉你在中国不能做基督徒的?

[–]XitlerDadaJinpingTaiwan 1 指标 1小时前 
Canadian public education.

加拿大的公共教育这么教他/她的。

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[–]djxtg 2 指标 3小时前 
China isnt like the West the people will never truly accept foreigners into their fabric of life.
This is an incredibly subjective statement that many people would have difficulty agreeing with. Just because racism and bias against minorities are hidden with a veneer of civility doesn't mean your next door neighbor accepts you. The rise of Trump Brexit and alt-right parties across the west more than proves this point.

“中国不像西方，人们永远不会真正接受外国人进入他们的生活。”
这是一种非常主观的说法，许多人很难认同。仅仅将种族歧视和对少数人的偏见隐藏在礼貌的外表下，并不意味着你的隔壁邻居是接受你的。特朗普(Trump)的当选、英国退欧(Brexit)以及西方右翼政党的崛起都证明了这一点。

[–]freddyfreddios[S] 2 指标 3小时前 
tbh I live in a nrighbourhood with a large immigrant diaspora so I fit right in. But besides that Ive managed to make friends (from work) with white Canadians in the community many of them older and I can say with confidence that most of them dont have a bad bone in their body. My race has never been an issue whatsoever. And all of them expressed some form of distaste for Trump..bear in mind they are in their 80s and they are more liberal than the American living in the Midwest.

老实说（to be honest），我生活在一个有大量移民的社区，所以我很快就融入进去了。但除此之外，我还设法和社区里的加拿大白人(工作上)交朋友，他们中很多人年纪比较大，我敢说他们大多数人都不坏。我的种族从来都不是问题。他们都对特朗普表达了某种形式的厌恶.....请记住，他们已经80多岁了，他们比居住在中西部的美国人更（信奉）自由主义。

[–]djxtg 1 指标 3小时前 
I don't mean that every white person you meet will be a klansmen. However the voting percentages do show that a significant portion aren't friendly to foreigners even if they don't express it outright.
The same is true the world around including China. There's going to be a portion of people who won't accept foreigners but there's also a portion (whether it's coworkers neighbors workout buddies etc.) that you'll grow truly close to.

我不是说你遇到的每一个白人都是三K党（klansmen）。然而，投票的百分比确实表明，很大一部分人对外国人并不友好，即使他们没有直接表达出来。世界各地也是如此，包括中国。有一部分人不会接受外国人，但也有一部分人(不管是同事、邻居、健身伙伴等等)，你真的能与他们变得亲近起来。

[–]zapee 1 指标 53 分钟前 
Lots of people go to Christian churches in China. I'm not sure exactly how it's viewed but there are quite a few

很多人去中国的基督教的教堂（礼拜）。我不确定（你们）是怎么看的，但是确实有很多人去。

-------------译者：aspenblack-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]the_kongman 3 指标 2小时前 
Before anyone responds be aware that OP claims to be from a family make more than $200k a year which puts his household in the top 1% of Canadian households (feel free to look up the numbers for yourself).

请任何人在回复前要意识到，楼主称自己来自一个年收入高达20万美元的家庭，这家庭收入能让其家庭跻身全加拿大家庭收入排名的前1%（请随意看看你们家的家庭收入）。

So yeah maybe factor that in when you’re weighing his responses.

所以，是的，你权衡他的回复时也许该考虑下这个因素。

[–]fleetwoodd 2 指标 3小时前 
More recently the people who did that survey have started giving separate results for non-brainwashed educated people (university education top 25% of earners read a lot of news). In 2017 the general "trust" in government media business etc was 79% from the "informed" yet only 62% among the "brainwashed" general public. Funnily enough the same pattern emerged in Canada yet with much lower numbers (62 47). A lower % of Canadians trust their government than Chinese.

最近，做这个调查的人已经开始为没被洗脑的受过教育的人（大学教育水平、收人水平在前25%的阅读大量新闻人）提供不同的调查结果了。2017年，对政府、媒体、商业等表示普遍“信任”的占“知情者”人数的79%，而在“被洗脑的”公众里却只有62%。搞笑的是，相同的模式也出现在了加拿大，且数目更低（知情者62%，被洗脑者47%）。信任本国政府的加拿大人比中国人的百分比更低。

[–]freddyfreddios[S] 1 指标 3小时前 
you know what Im more glad that my fellow Canadians can disagree with their government like that. Why I love being Canadian.

你知道吗，我更高兴于我的加拿大同胞可以那样地反对他们的政府。这就是我喜欢成为加拿大人的原因。

[–]fleetwoodd 8 指标 3小时前 
It's a survey of trust not disagreement with overall policy. You don't find it worrying that 57% of people don't have the same blind trust you do?
Your parents earning $200k+ puts you in a privileged position. You don't understand the issues at hand here because lets face it you're a little emperor.

这是个关于信任度而非反对总体政策的调查。你难道不担心57%的人没像你那样盲目信任吗？你父母挣20万以上美元让你生活优越处于特权地位。你不懂周遭发生的问题。因为，让我们面对现实吧，你就是个小皇帝。

[–]the_kongman 3 指标 2小时前 
He’s literally a 1%er

他就是名副其实的那1%的人。