【reddit】我该住在中国哪座城市呀？ [美国媒体]

where to live in china. (self.China)

我住中国哪里好呢？

earthsaghetto 于 14小时前 发表
Hey I'm looking to moving to china next year with the goal oflearning mandarin. Id like to live around Beijing in a city or town that withstrong cultural ties. For example i was looking at Qingdao but i worry that theGerman influence will hurt my Chinese experience.

嘿，我期待着实现明年学习普通话的目标。我想住在北京附近一个中国文化氛围浓厚城市或城镇。比如我原本想去青岛，但是担心德国对它的影响会影响到我期盼的中国式体验。

i also want to avoid cities with harsh accents and who's"street language" isnt mandarin, such as Shanghai. I also dont wantto go anywhere so small that ill go stir crazy. i lived in Granada Spain forsome time (250,000) people and i liked the size but im willing to go bigger orsmaller.

我也想避开那些口音较重的城市，像“上海”这样“街头语言”不是普通话的城市。 我也不想去任何小的要命地方，那我得发疯。 我在西班牙格拉纳达居住了一段时间（25万人），我喜欢这个规模，但我愿意去个稍微大些或小些的城市。



I also dont want anywhere too cold like changchun. im lookingat dalian also but im worried it is too industrial for the proper culturalexperience. Right now im looking at Pingyao but i dont know much about it.thoughts? thank you for your time.
PS:taiwanis out because of written language

我也不想像长春那样太冷。 我也考虑大连，但我担心文化体验，因为它太过于工业化了。 现在我正在考虑平遥，但是我不太了解。大家有什么想法？ 感谢您花时间看我的帖子。
PS：台湾是因为书面语言是繁体字而不作考虑的。



DylanLeviKing 38 指标 15小时前*
This question has been asked countless times: I want to moveto China to learn Chinese but I worry that if I live in a city that isn'tfucked up, I'll never learn the language, and I definitely don't want to go toone of those cities where they speak some fucked up dialect.

这个问题已经被无数次地问到了：我想搬到中国去学习中文，但是我担心如果我住的城市是否没那么糟糕。如果那城市的人们讲一些乱七八糟的方言，那我永远不想去哪儿。

Briefly:all Chinese cities are the same; nobody will speak in their local dialect toyou, if they're under 60; and you're overestimating the amount of language youwill learn.

简而言之，所有的中国城市都是一样的。如果没超过60岁，没有人会用当地的方言向你讲话; 而且你高估了你将要学习的语言的数量。

Don'tworry so much. Except for a few places, talking about cities, everyone under,say, fifty or sixty can usually speak Mandarin, and everyone under, like, fortycan usually speak it without a fucked up accent and might not be able to speaka local dialect or would struggle to communicate in the purest form of thelocal language.

别太担心了。 除了少数几个地方，在谈论城市的时候，五六十岁以下的人都可以说普通话，四十岁以下的基本每个人都可以说一口没什么口音的普通话。当然，可能不会说当地的方言，就很难交流一些当地语言中最纯粹的文化内涵。

I've met foreign residents thatlearned something like the local dialect and not really Mandarin, but they usually had deeproots in the area, never planned to leave and never formally studied Mandarin.Again, it's tough to find anyone in your age group that can really spit in thelocal language. There's a reason these languages are disappearing.

我遇到了一些外国人，他们学的是当地方言，而不是普通话，但他们通常已经扎根在这个地区了，从来没有打算离开，也从来没有正式学过普通话。 再说一次，你很难找到在你的年龄段中真正说好出当地语言的人。 这也是这些语言正在消失的原因之一。

Thishas never happened: Oops, I went to China and accidentally became fluent inMinnan! Local languages are more than weird accents. They are rarely mutuallyintelligible with Mandarin. Often, younger people will speak aMandarin-influenced version of a local language but not the real deal version.We're talking about cities here, where everyone was taught Mandarin in school,watches Mandarin-language TV, usually speaks Mandarin at work and probably withtheir friends. Unless you're going to be living in the countryside or a shittypart of town, or not ever glancing at a TV or a textbook, or not socializingwith anyone under 70, you should be fine wherever you end up. I'd challenge youto go to a place with the strongest presence of local languages, like, say,Wenzhou or Fuzhou, and come away speaking differently than someone that studiedin Beijing or Harbin.

有些从来没有发生过的事儿比如：哎呀，我去了中国，不小心闽南话说的倍儿流利！ 当地语言不仅仅是古怪的口音。事实上它们与普通话差异很大。 通常，年轻人会说普通话的当地语言版本，但不是真正的百分百的方言。 我们在谈论的是这里的城市，每个人在学校学普通话，看普通话的电视，通常也会在工作中、和他们的朋友交流中讲普通话。 除非你要住在乡下或城里偏僻的地方——在那儿你不用看电视或教科书，也不和70岁以下的人交流；否则不管你到哪里，都应该没问题。 我会给你个挑战性建议：去一个方言最强势难懂的地方，比如说温州或者福州，体会下那里和在北京或哈尔滨学习的人说话不一样。

Even speakers of a local language,especially if they're under 40 or 50, will rarely employ it to speak to you(maybe to speak about you to other people).
Ilearned to speak Chinese in deepest Northern Jiangsu, and picked up, maybe, oneor two very minor local dialect bad habits, and that was before I cracked atextbook. I lived in Guangzhou and worked with people that countrysideCantonese and Hunanese and all kinds of other local languages, but never had anissue speaking Mandarin with them, or understanding them.

即使是当地方言的使用者，尤其是40岁或50岁以下的使用者，也很少会用它来和你说话（也许会用方言向其他人讲述你）。
在我攻克教科书之前，我就在苏北最北的地方学会了讲中文，当然也许沾染了一两个很小的当地方言的坏习惯。我住在广州，和说广东话，湖南话等各种方言的人一起工作，却从来没有和他们在说普通话或者理解他们上产生任何问题。

Basically, if you're living in a citylike Qingdao or Dalian or Shanghai... they're all the same. Qingdao has noGerman culture, Dalian isn't particularly industrial, and it's becomingincreasingly rare to be spoken to in Shanghainese in Shanghai.

基本上，如果你住在像青岛，大连或上海这样的城市，都是差不多。 青岛没什么德国文化，大连也并不是特别的工业，在上海上海话的使用也越来越少。

Pingyaois fine, and it's cheap, but it doesn't really completely avoid all the dealbreakers you listed. The local language is close enough to Mandarin that it hasa larger effect on spoken Mandarin. It's small, even if the population numbersseem impressive—it feels tiny and isolated, even compared to other cities inShanxi. It has some old shit but most of it is fake as fuck, and it's been tooisolated and rural and sleepy for the past hundred years for anything culturalto be going on there unless it's for the benefit of tourists. It's also cold asfuck and dusty in the winter.

平遥很好，物价也便宜，但并不能完全满足你列举的条件。 当地语言与普通话相近，对普通话的形成也有较大的影响。它人口数量令人印象深刻 ——即使与山西其他城市相比，它也显得人口稀少且有点闭塞。 它有一些貌似古老的东西，但大部分是假的：这他妈的太离谱了，过去一百年来，除了游客带来的利益与收入之外，这里显得太闭塞、乡下与暮气沉沉了。另外平遥冬天冷的要死还灰土漫天。

Doingyour first tour of duty in Pingyao is probably a bad idea. I'd take Dalian, butQingdao is decent. The most important thing right now is to start studying thebasics by yourself. Next, you need to temper your expectations.

选平遥做你的第一站可能是一个坏主意。我个人想去大连，但是青岛对你来说很合适。 现在最重要的是自己开始学习基础知识。接下来，你需要缓和你的过高预期。

Editedfor clarity. Also, hold on, Taiwan is out because of the written language? Youthink a Taiwanese person, educated and raised in a country with the same linguafranca as the People's Republic comes to the Mainland and is suddenlyilliterate? You think a Mainlander crossing into Hong Kong is unable to readthe labels on the cans of milk powder they're smuggling back into Shenzhen?Again, I think you're vastly overestimating how much you will learn. If youcome away from a year in China able to read a short newspaper article, I'll beimpressed. Simplified or traditional, it makes no difference at your level.Later, probably after years of study, when you are actually literate, it's kindof a bitch on the rare occasion that you have to write something in theopposite character set but reading and typing are not really a problem.

为了清晰排下版。 还有，台湾因为书面语是繁体字而被你排除了吗？ 你认为一个与中国大陆拥有同样通用语言的台湾人，来到大陆，会突然变文盲吗？ 你以为大陆人看不懂他们偷运回深圳的奶粉罐头上的标签吗？ 再说一次，我认为你高估了你会学到多少。如果你在中国一年能够读懂一篇短篇文章，我会给你点赞。简化字或繁体字，在你这个水平没有什么区别。 之后可能经过多年的学习，当你真正认识汉字的时候，在比较少的情况下，你必须用不同的汉字（简体与繁体）写东西，但是阅读和打字并不是什么问题。

kfc0802 10 指标 12小时前*
this guy knows whats up, here's my like

这家伙是真的懂行的，给你点赞。

interbang 6 指标 8小时前
this guy likes what I like, here’s my like

这家伙是真的懂行的，给你点赞。

shishiqiushi 6 指标 7小时前
This guy likes someone liking what I like, here's my like

这家伙正是我喜欢的那种人，给你点赞。

PurramidOnAMeowntain 1 指标 6小时前
There is still to mention that some regions are still filledwith speakers (also under 40) who do not speak Mandarin perfectly -pronunciation-wise. For example in Zhejiang, many do not know the differencebetween zh-z, ch-c, sh-s, ng-n. Or in Fujian people often confuse n and r.. Ithink overall it's worse in the south and if you speak a lot with locals it'seasy to pick up these bad habits. While this isn't the end of the world, it canstill be irritating and confusing, especially for beginners.

还有一些地区仍然有很多方言使用者（尽管是40岁以下），他们完全不懂普通话 。发音方面。 例如在浙江，很多人不知道zh-z，ch-c，sh-s，ng-n之间的区别。 或者在福建，人们往往会把n和r混淆起来。我觉得南方的情况总体来说比较糟糕，如果你常和当地人说话，很容易就会发现这些坏习惯。 虽然这不是世界末日，但对于初学者来说，仍然可能令人恼火和困惑。

PurramidOnAMeowntain 1 指标 5小时前
Thank you for your elaborate comments. I think it reallydepends on the goal individual learners have.
Whatwould you say: is it easier to understand all the "non-standardquirks" after learning the language in a standardized environment than to"correct" bad habits (if there's need) like sh-s mix-ups afterlearning to speak somewhat fluently, or vice-versa? Really interested in yourtake on this.

感谢您的详细评论。 我认为这取决于个人学习者的目标。
下面的问题你是怎样认为呢：
在完全标准化的语言环境中学习语言，会比先把话说的流利了再去不断纠正诸如s-sh混淆的不好发音习惯，更容易理解所有那些非规范用法吗？还是说反之亦然？真的特别感兴趣你对这个的看法。（后面给出解释了不过真的太长了懒得翻，大概意思就是两者区别不大）

domoxdomo 3 指标 11小时前
Shenzen

深圳

Given what he's looking for, yeah.

楼上你说出了他想要的城市。

kulio_forever 2 指标 14小时前
Qingdao is supposed to be nice. I don't know how standard theaccent is

青岛挺好的。我其实并不知道真正标准的中文口音是什么样的。

kfc0802 3 指标 11小时前
I was born in Qingdao. Qingdao people does speak a dialect,but we don't speak that to a obvious foreigner. If you live in the city area ofQingdao (Shi Nan, Shi Bei, Li Cun, Lao Shan) everyone 100% speaksstandard Mandarin to you

我出生在青岛。青岛人的确是说方言的，但是我们不对那些老外说。去过你住在青岛的城区（市南区、市北区、崂山区、李沧区），几乎100%的人都会说普通话。

kulio_forever 1 指标 10小时前
Ok good to know. I figured north means standard enough
What'sthe dialect like, some ancient local language? Or just some northern-stylephrasing?

好，知道了。 我搞明白了北方人基本说的就够标准了
那什么是方言呀，是一些古代的当地语言？ 或者只是一些北方式的措辞？

xxrt343 2 指标 8小时前
Fun fact: Qingdao and Dalian dialects share many of the samefeatures because so many Shandong coastal people went to the Liaodong Peninsulahundred or so years ago in the 闯关东 days.

有趣的是，青岛方言和大连方言有许多相同的特点，因为山东沿海有很多人在百年前的闯关东时代就去了辽东半岛。

kulio_forever 1 指标 8小时前
sweet! nice info
iremember years ago someone told me shanghai's style of saying "da/xiaoguai" for left/right turn came from Shandong lingo

哇！ 很好的信息补充。
我记得几年前有人告诉我，上海人说的“大拐/小拐”就来自山东话。

93402European Union 1 指标 1小时前
For example i was looking at Qingdao but i worry that theGerman influence will hurt my Chinese experience.
Hurtyour chinese experience? What the Fxxx does that even mean? Are you high, orretarded?

楼主你说的“影响到你的中国式体验”是什么鬼？你是磕东西了还是脑子有问题？

WhereTheHotWaterAt 1 指标 46 分钟前
If you wanna live in a place that's not a complete dump,you're going to have to live in a town of 1+ million people.
250kpeople is backward village size in China

如果你想住在一个不脏乱的中国城市，那就只能住在人口100万左右的了。
可是在中国25万人的规模就是个小村子。

silentdog176 1 指标 14小时前
In terms of the dialect it’s not easy, the most authenticmandarin speaking area is henan province. Beijing and Hebei is also ok.Otherwise, almost all the rest area have some dialects.
Ithink SHANGHAI can be good. Actually not so many Yong ppl in Shanghai speakonly shanghainese . Most of them speak mandarin with not that strong accent.
Qingdaoalso good.

就方言而言，这不是一件容易的事，最正宗的汉语地区是在河南省。 北京和河北也不错。 除此之外，其他几乎所有的地区都有一些方言。
我认为上海很好。 其实在上海没有那么多的人只会说上海话。 他们中的大多数普通话都没什么口音。
青岛也不错。