高考 [美国媒体]

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Tommust 于 1 天前 发表
I was always led to believe that scoring high on the Gaokao could get you admission in to any of the top Western Universities because of how difficult it was but after reading this I have my doubts.

我一直被诱导相信只要在高考里拿下高分，你可以去西方的任何一所一流大学，因为高考很难。但在看过这些内容后，我对此有了怀疑。

Key issues for UK HE admissions The Gaokao is considered by many UK universities to be at a lower level than those qualifications traditionally used to demonstrate readiness for undergraduate study with students completing 12 years of education. Many students from China who are applying to international universities will also take SATs or other internationally-recognised qualifications. The Gaokao is sometimes considered for entry to foundation degree programmes.

英国高等院校招生的关键问题是，很多英国大学认为高考比那些传统上为大学教育而做的资格准备水平要低，而中国学生在参加高考前总共要学习12年。那些申请国际大学的中国学生还需要考SAT或者其他的国际认可的资格证书。高考有时被认为是本科基础课程的入门而已。

Source: https://qips.ucas.com/qip/china-gaokao
What has your experience been with students who pass the Gaokao and those that get into top Western Universities?

你与那些通过高考，那些进入西方一流大学读书的学生们有过什么经历啊？


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–]HautamakiCanada 24 指标 1 天前 
I'm not sure but my experience and my impression is that the skills needed to do well on the Gaokao aren't all the same skills needed to do well at a western university. Ultimately if you are intelligent and hardworking that's an advantage for both the Gaokao and western university but if you get more specific there is quite a lot of difference.

我不确定，但据我的经验和我的印象来看高考得高分所需的技能与读好西方大学所需的技能是不一样的，但基本上如果你是足够聪明和勤奋的话，那么无论是高考还是去念西方大学你都会有优势；但如果你要更具体对比的话，二者之间还是有很大的差异的。

The main thing you need to do to pass the Gaokao is what your teachers tell you to do. Your teachers will give you the worksheets they will give you the reading passages you need to memorize they will tell you exactly down the smallest detail how every question should be answered you will do like 1000 practice tests and the teacher will go into excruciating detail on how every question on the test should be answered. You will get a million sample essay answers to various possible essay questions to memorize and your essay score will largely be determined by how closely you can reproduce an 'ideal' essay answer. That's for the English and Chinese sections of course. The math section from what I understand is probably closer to how math is done anywhere as math is just inherently a less subjective field.

关于高考你需要做的最主要工作就是按你的老师告诉你的那样去做。老师会给你一堆练习题，会给你你需要背诵记住的文章优美段落；他们会明确告诉你该如何回答每一个问题至最小的细节；你会做大概千份以上的模拟测试题；老师会详细讲解论述每道题该如何回答至折磨死人的程度。你需要记住犹如百万份多的优秀范文以应对各种可能会出现的作文题目，而你的作文分数很大程度上取决于你能否完美将“理想的标准答案”给重现出来。当然已上只针对英语和中文的部分。据我了解数学部分大致上就跟世界其他地方如何教授准备数学一样，因为数学本质上是一个不太主观的领域。

On the other hand to do well in a western university you need to be self directed. Teachers will give you help if you ask for it but they won't track you down to chew you out if you are messing up in some way. You have to choose your own classes and make and keep to your own schedule. Even in Chinese universities students only choose a major and from there are assigned classes and a schedule and are generally babysat a lot more than in the west.

另一方面，要想在西方大学取得好成绩，你需要学会自主管理。如果你主动寻求帮助的话，老师是会帮你的，但如果你在某方面学得很糟糕，他们是不会细致跟进落实到你个人身上并严厉斥责你（为什么没学好的）。你必须自主选择课程，并制定遵守自己的时间安排表。甚至在中国，高校学生只需要选择一个专业，课程地点时间安排表早就被详细告知，且相对于西方大学，中国高校学生在很多方面都是被更悉心照顾的。

Also in western universities you have to do your own research cite your sources on your own come to and defend your own conclusions participate in discussions and debate and generally act as an independent learner. Chinese education has virtually none of that. The teacher tells you everything you need to know everything that is true all you need to do is regurgitate it correctly. Even the idea of researching and citing sources is virtually unheard of in the Chinese classroom. Copying and pasting with no references is far more common.

此外，在西方大学的学生一般要学会做一个独立的学习者，你必须自己做自己的研究，自己去寻找引用论文的信息来源，从而自己得出结论，参与讨论和进行论文辩论。中国的教育事实上根本没有这些。老师会明确告诉你需要知道的一切内容，你唯一需要做的事就是将这些内容以正确的方式生搬硬套。甚至在语文课堂上，追寻研究材料的真实性和其出处都是闻所未闻的。直接复制粘贴没有标明参考文献出处更为常见。

So yeah if I was a western university I'd take gaokao scores with a grain of salt. A high gaokao probably means the student is smart and hard working. But is the student an independent learner capable of taking care of themselves identifying for themselves their own strengths and weaknesses making their own schedule doing their own research coming up with their own ideas or critically uating analyzing and synthesizing from multiple sources the ideas of others and then citing that properly? The gaokao tells you none of that and Chinese education does not prepare students for that kind of experience except in the most broadly defined sort of way of 'show up to class listen to the teacher finish your homework study for the test'.

所以呢，如果我是西方大学校方的话，我建议西方大学对于高考应该保持怀疑态度。一个高考分数很高的学生可能意味着他是聪明的且勤奋努力的。但是像独立学习、照顾自己、了解自己的长处和短处，自己制定计划，自己做研究，提出自己的想法，批判地评估分析以及整合来自其他人的多个观点，然后正确引用，这些能力该学生可能是缺乏的。高考不能对已上问题提供任何解决方案和帮助。中国教育这种只是通过上课听讲，放学完成家庭作业，学习只为应考的方式并不能积累已上的各种能力的经验。

[–]Taibo 7 指标 20小时前 
I agree with most with this but I would say this isn't really a gaokao problem more of a nationalized test problem. For the SAT in the US there are tons of people and prep schools who take exactly the same approach as above.

对于已上的内容大多数我是认同的，但是我想说这并非高考一家的问题，而是大多数国家级测试的问题，像在美国的SAT考试中，成千上万的人或预科班学生也是通过上述一样的方式来做准备的。

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[–]HautamakiCanada 1 指标 14小时前 
yes very true the SAT is nothing but a disguised IQ test because giving kids an IQ test to see if they could go to university became very politically incorrect so they just changed the name and a few questions around and made it a bit easier to get a higher score by studying harder for it but essentially if you take a group of American high school students give them IQ test and rank them by that and give them an SAT and rank them by that the IQ and SAT test rankings will be almost the exact same with the exceptions being a relatively small minority of students that take advantage of SAT prep courses and get a small temporary boost to their scores in that way.

没错，SAT只不过是另一种形式的IQ测试，但通过IQ测试来判断孩子是否适合去上大学会显得非常政治不正确，所以他们就换个说法，改变了一些问题，使其更容易通过努力学习来获得高分。然而从根本上来讲，无论你让一批美国高中生做IQ测试还是SAT考试，两者的排名结果几乎都是一样的，除了相对一小部分学生会利用SAT预科课程在短期内提高分数。

The main difference between Western and Chinese students is that in a good Western high school the teachers will emphasize more of the skills that are specifically needed to succeed in University; the independence self-directed learning researching and citing critical thinking etc whereas in a Chinese high school a 'better' school just means the teachers work harder to make the students work harder to memorize more practice materials.

西方和中国学生的主要区别在于，在一个好的西方高中里，老师会更重视技能的教育，而这些能力是在大学里取得成功所必需的，例如独立学习、自主研究和批判性思考等等。而在中国，“好”的高中则意味着老师会想尽办法让学生更努力地记住更多的学习资料。

[–]sanjugo 1 指标 5小时前 
You are talking about 2 different things gaokao is pre-university/college while you're trying to compare that with western unis.
Education is and has been facing corruption for a long time if you have money then you have a better chance. High schoolers in other countries have "TUTORS" which is as good as a free pass to getting As and getting into a course of their choice. Again it comes down to money and getting the right advice.

你说的是两种不同的事情，高考相当于大学预科，而你却拿它来跟西方大学比较。教育腐败的问题长存已久，如果你有钱你就能得到更好的机会。而且其他国家的高中生都有“导师”，这如同获得了一张能帮助你取得优秀成绩和选到心仪课程的免费通行证。所以归根结底，要得到好的教育还是要金钱的支撑和得到正确的建议。

[–]MaoZePedo2 6 指标 22小时前 
The majority of Chinese students going to top 50 American colleges don't take the Gaokao. They either attend an international school an international division of a Chinese high school high school outside of China or sit out their final year of Chinese high school to further study for the SAT SAT II TOEFL and prepare their applications.

进入美国50强大学的大多数中国学生都不参加高考。他们要么就读国际学校，要么就读中国高中的国外分校，要么在高中最后一年参加SAT或托福考试，准备他们的大学申请。

[–]whatkindof88 4 指标 1 天前 
I think the chosen path now is to go to school in a foreign country in Grade 9 or high school and then go to uni after finishing high school.

我认为现在的选择是在9年级或高中的时候去国外上学，然后在高中毕业后去上（西方）大学。

[–]happyguy604 1 指标 1 天前 
There are many top Chinese students in the top universities in the world. It's best to ask those who did it

世界一流的大学里都有许多顶尖的中国留学生。最好问一下他们的经验。

[–]chinashou 10 指标 1 天前 
Pay someone to write their admissions essay and take the SAT for them.

付钱给别人代写入学论文，帮他们去考SAT。

[–]whatkindof88 6 指标 1 天
I wonder how many western education institutions are aware of how big a problem this is?

我想知道有多少西方教育机构意识到这个问题的严重性?

[–]chinashou 5 指标 1 天前 
They know they want that tuition.

他们只知道他们想要收学费。

[–]whatkindof88 2 指标 1 天前 
I guess so. The Chinese Yuan must be keeping most of these places afloat.

我猜也是。人民币肯定使大部分这些地方经济稳定发展。

[–]kulio_forever 1 指标 17小时前 
Just money any denomination will do my friend

只要是钱，不过哪国货币面额多少都是可行的，我的朋友啊。

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[–]drew627 4 指标 18小时前 
I’ve written enough college application essays for fuerdais to say with certainty that most don’t deserve admission into top US universities.

我为富二代们代写了无数的大学申请文书，可以很肯定地说，他们中的大多数都无法满足美国顶尖大学的入学要求。

[–]komnenosChina 2 指标 16小时前 
I work at an "international" school chock full of these kids. I teach the little ones but I've heard horror stories from my foreign counterparts in middle and high school about how they can't even give an almost failing grade to the kids who put in zero effort. Many of these kids go on to American schools barely speaking any english.

我在一家满是此类学生的“国际”学校工作。虽然我只在小学任教，但是我从执教初、高中的外国同事那里听了许多可怕的案例，比如他们不能给那些完全不用功的孩子打接近不及格的分数。大多数这样进入美国学校的学生们几乎不会说英语。

[–]IN_THE_KLOUDS 5 指标 15小时前 
“Many of these kids go on to American schools barely speaking any english.”

“大多数这样进入美国学校的学生们几乎不会说英语。”

I dealt with this a lot in college - we had a sizable population of mainlanders at my university. None of them even spoke any english whatsoever. You'd think that any university knowing full well what sorts of methods Chinese use to cheat on tests would actually interview these kids face-to-face to see if they even spoke elementary-level English....but since money talks nope we're going to deal with the fallout when the kid steps on campus unable to understand the meaning of "hi what's up?".

我在大学学校里应付过太多这样的事情——我们大学里有相当大数量的大陆学生。他们中没一个曾讲过一句英文。你可能会认为，这些中国学生在测试中的作弊手段会因为面试时无法使用基础英语进行交流而暴露给大学校方......然后有钱能使鬼推磨，所以其附带的结果就是，我们在大学里要面对一群连“嗨！你好吗”这什么意思都不懂的学生们了。

I'll always remember one event that stands above all the rest - I was sitting in an elective a basic-level environmental science class. I enjoyed the class and the professor so I sort of helped lead the discussions (TAs were worthless). One day the class was discussing the longterm vs short-term pros/cons of siphoning ter from the state's only major river to our city because we were undergoing a severe drought. During what I thought was a reasonably intelligent debate the professor asked if anyone besides me had an opinion on the matter. All of a sudden the group of 10 or so Chinese started making a commotion and one of them shot up their hand and naturally was called on by the professor. The student shouted out "Potato!". All the other Chinese started nodding their heads and smiling thinking they had come up with a great answer together. The rest of the class including the professor were too dumbfounded to laugh or to even react. None of the Chinese students ever showed up to class the rest of the semester.

我永远都会记着的一个重要的事件是——当时我在上一门基础环境科学的选修课。我很喜欢这门课还有教课的教授，所以我会稍微帮忙引导讨论（助教没啥用）。有一天我们正在讨论关于“采用虹吸方式将唯一主河道的水引到我们的城市，长期与短期的利弊分析”这样的话题，毕竟我们当时面临着严重的干旱。教授询问除了我以外是否还有其他人要发表自己的观点，在我看来，这本该是场理智的辩论。这时候，一个大约10人左右的中国学生小组突然有一点骚动，他们中有一个人举了举手，教授很自然地点了他的名。只见那个学生大喊了一句：“土豆！”。其他的中国学生纷纷点头微笑，认为他们总结出了特别棒的答案。包括教授在内的其他学生都震惊得哭笑不得以至于不知该如何回应。后来，整个学期里再也没有哪个中国学生出现在那堂课上过。

[–]kulio_forever 1 指标 17小时前 
The gaokao can be used to enter schools in the States I believe but its not going to get you into Harvard even with a high score. Well unless your family has money and power of course. The reason is that the gaokao is unreliable. There is quite a bit of fraud in the system and the test has baked-in aspects that are troubling.

高考可以让你进入美国高校，但我认为你在高考中得了高分也不会让你进入哈佛这样的顶尖学府。当然，如果你家里有权有钱的话就另当别论了。因为高考不是特别可靠，这个系统中存有相当多的舞弊行为，而且存在各方面的不安定因素。

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[–]MaoZePedo2 1 指标 2小时前 
Haha. You really believe this anti-corruption stuff? It's a targeted campaign against ping's political enemies. Again why isn't this campaign targeting Ping's corruption? As the Panama papers reported he has 100s of millions in offshore accounts and multiple HK apartments. Weird for someone who has only worked in government and makes 22000 dollars a year. If china had an open press many more of these cases regarding admissions bribery would be reported.
Any proof on your claim that need blind isn't really need blind? Also the one or two students from Exeter going to bad colleges doesn't explain why the others (in the 50 percent financial aid category) are going to top schools.

哈哈。你真的相信反腐败这种东西吗？这是针对平的政敌的有针对性的运动。为什么这次竞选不是针对平的腐败？巴拿马报告报道称他的海外账户里有数百万元且多个香港公寓房产。对于他这个为政府工作，每年挣2万2千美元的人来说，这很奇怪。如果中国有个能自由公开的媒体的话，很多招生行贿的案件就会被报道出来。你认为你的那些需要被无视的声称就真的是需要被无视的吗？另外，来自埃克塞特的一两个上坏大学的学生并不能解释为什么其他人（在50%个资助类别中）上的是顶尖学校。

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan -1 指标 23小时前* 
I think the Gaokao is more challenging than the SAT SAT II and AP exams. You can be prepped for most of the stuff needed in the US exams.
Personal statements are pretty easy as well. They aren't looking for pearls of wisdom or ground breaking research.
The tough part of US elite admissions you need good recommendations. Other than that it helps in your financial disclosure if you come from the right zip code. Or if you're a legacy kid. Rich and a legacy kid with a private college counselor the world is your oyster at that point.
The US admission for elite schools is easily influenced by money. Donate a new building your kid is in.
I haven't heard of many cases where a kid got in without passing a gaokao in China and the parents literally bought their kids admission like in the USA.

我认为高考比SAT、SAT II和AP考试更具挑战性。你可以准备最需要的东西在美国考试。个人陈述也很容易。他们不是在寻找金玉良言或申明突破性的研究成果。美国精英学府招生难的地方在于你需要一封好的推荐信。除此之外，如果你来自正确的邮政编码（地区），它会对表现你的财务状况有所帮助。或者如果你是一个有遗产的孩子，一个拥有巨额遗产并有着私人大学辅导员的富有孩子，那么在这种情况下，任何大学都对你敞开大门。美国名校的招生很容易受到金钱的影响。给学校捐赠一栋新大楼，你的孩子就能进去了。我还没有听说过很多中国父母像美国父母一样随便用钱让自己的孩子进入大学，和连高考都没通过就进入大学的孩子这样的事件。

（译注：美国大学预修课程(AdvancedPlacement)）AP，全称Advanced Placement，中文名称为美国大学预修课程。AP课程及考试始于1955年，由美国大学理事会（College Board）主办，在高中阶段开设的具有大学水平的课程，共有22个门类、37个学科。该项考试的目的在于，使高中学生提前接触大学课程，完成一些美国大学的学分课程及考试。AP课程及考试可以为高中生起到减免大学学分、降低大学教育成本、缩短大学教育时间的目的，同时AP考试成绩可以作为申请大学的一个重要筹码）

[–]MaoZePedo2 4 指标 22小时前 
Legacy isn't a major factor unless there is a huge donation accompanying it. The kind of money you are talking about is rare and the candidate still has to be somewhat qualified. Also recommendations are not even close to as big of a factor as GPA and standardized test scores.

遗产并不是一个主要影响因素，除非同时伴有大量捐款。你说的这种（用钱进去）的情况还是不常见，而且候选人还得有点资格才行。另外，推荐信的影响力甚至不如GPA和标准化考试分数那么大。

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan 1 指标 14小时前* 
Legacy account for up 30% of admissions at some of the Ivies. To say it's not a factor is somewhat misleading. "Huge" donation is subjective issues. What might be huge to some people might be other people's annual rounding errors. You only have to keep up to date with a modest donation annually to be considered a favored alumni. So over the course of 18 years it can add up. If you decide to target your alma mater for legacy admission when your child is born.
I've seen students cruising in with a "gentleman C" grades at some these hallow halls in the US. I don't think you would see a student like that at top gaokao admission University.

在一些常春藤盟校招生中遗产占据30%的比例。说这不是一个影响因素有点误导人。“巨额”捐赠是主观性问题。对某些人来说这是一笔巨大的捐赠金额，但可能在别人看来这只是他们年度（收入）的舍入误差值罢了。如果你决定在你的孩子出生时，将自己的母校作为让你的孩子靠你的馀荫而入学的名校的话，那么你只需要保证每年捐赠一笔微薄的捐款被当作是最受欢迎的校友，这样18年后这笔金额被叠加计量（是会考虑到你孩子入校的因素的）。在美国我常看到学生以“还可以”（讽刺）的成绩进入这些神圣大学。我不认为你会在那种需要在高考中夺得高分才能入学的学校中看到这样的学生。

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[–]MaoZePedo2 1 指标 8小时前 
You're ignoring the fact that many of those legacy students are extremely competitive applicants without the legacy connection and that many apply early decision/early action. In terms of students getting into top colleges with C's other than recruited athletes or students with world-class talent in certain areas that hasn't been a common practice in decades.
The gaokao thing is a separate issue but you really don't think money (bribes) are involved in every level of Chinese education admissions?

你忽略了许多关系户型学生即使没有这层关系也是极其具有竞争力的申请者，而且他们很多都申请了提前批。大部分学生进入顶尖大学靠成绩，其他是一些职业运动员或者在特定领域内具有世界一流才能的学生，（那种靠C等成绩入大学的情况）在几十年来也不常见。高考是另一个完全不同的领域，但是你真的不认为金钱（贿赂）影响到了中国教育招生的方方面面吗？

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan 1 指标 8小时前 
“You're ignoring the fact that many of those legacy students are extremely competitive applicants without the legacy connection and that many apply early decision/early action”

“你忽略了许多关系户型学生即使没有这层关系也是极其具有竞争力的申请者而且他们很多都申请了提前批。”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
“For example in the 2008 entering undergraduate class the University of Pennsylvania admitted 41.7% of legacies who applied during the early decision admissions round and 33.9% of legacies who applied during the regular admissions cycle versus 29.3% of all students who applied during the early decision admissions round and 16.4% of all who applied during the regular cycle.[8] In 2009 Princeton admitted 41.7% of legacy applicants—more than 4.5 times the 9.2% rate of non-legacies. Similarly in 2006 Brown University admitted 33.5% of alumni children significantly higher than the 13.8% overall admissions rate. In 2003 Harvard admitted 40% of legacy applicants compared to the overall 11% acceptance rate. In short Ivy League and other top schools typically admit legacies at two to five times their overall admission rates”

“举例来说，2008年宾夕法尼亚大学本科班中通过提前批的有41.7%是关系户，且通过常规申请渠道申请的关系户则有33.9%。而与之对比通过提前批录取的非关系户为29.3%而通过常规渠道录取的非关系户只有16.4% 。[8]2009年，普灵斯顿大学称有关系户的录取率为41.7%——比非关系户的9.2%录取率高出了4.5倍有余。于此类似，2006年布朗大学称其校友会成员的子女中录取率达到了33.5%，明显高于13.8%的总体录取率。2003年，哈佛接收了关系户中40%的人数，高出总体11%的录取率。简言之，长青藤盟校和其他典型顶尖大学的关系户录取率确实是总体录取率的二到五倍。”

Even a casual statistical analysis of a legacy population pool and the "normal" applicant pool. One can see how heavily favored legacy have in the application process.

即使在关系户人群库和“普通”申请人群库当中，也可以看出关系在申请过程中有多重要。

“The advantages that colleges offer legacy students extend well beyond admission preferences. Many colleges have various mechanisms for coaching legacies through the admissions process and for advising them about strategies for constructing successful applications including notifying legacies of the edge that they can gain by applying early. Some universities have alumni councils that provide legacies with special advising sessions pair these would-be students with current legacy students and generally provide advice and mentoring for legacy applicants. Some universities employ admissions counselors dedicated solely to legacy applicants and it is common to provide scholarships or tuition discounts earmarked especially for legacies and for legacies to be charged in-state tuition fees when they are out-of-state residents.[10] In cases where legacies are rejected some universities offer legacy admissions counseling and help with placement at other colleges. Such students are often encouraged to enroll at a lesser ranked school for one or two years to prove themselves and then to reapply as transfer students”

“大学提供给关系户的额外优势远远超过了（招生偏好的范围）。许多大学通过多种机制比如辅导关系户通过录取并给他们构建成功入学申请的策略和建议，包括提前通知关系户他们如果提前申请更具优势。一些大学会通过校友会给关系户提供特别指导讲习会，将这些学生与现有的关系户学生进行配对，并逐步为关系户提供建议和指导。一些大学会雇佣入学顾问单独处理关系户入学申请，而且一般会提供奖学金或者学费折扣给关系户，特别会给那些住在州外申请州内大学的关系户学费折扣[10]。万一关系户没被录取，部分大学会提供给关系户入学咨询并帮助他们进入其他大学，部分学生被鼓励到其他大学呆个一两年然后再申请转学。“

Were talking about some pretty heavy handed tactics to gain admission now. It's not transparent to anyone at all unless one is a legacy.

当我们讨论这些通过高压手段获得录取通知的同时，它也不是对每个人都公开透明的，除非这个人是关系户。

“The gaokao thing is a separate issue but you really don't think money (bribes) are involved in every level of Chinese education admissions?”

“高考是另一个完全不同的领域，但是你真的不认为金钱（贿赂）影响到了中国教育招生的方方面面吗？”

I'm pretty sure if you find a case of bribery in China concerning college admission there would be consequences. The population wouldn't tolerate it for long. China wouldn't codify "bribery" into "donations" or "gift giving" for college admission.
The point being access to higher education is transparent in China. There's a one and done test system. You're a minority you get a few extra points on the exam. You're a foreigner or overseas Chinese you get a few extra points on the exam. You're a provincial level athlete or academic competition champion a few extra point or a guarantee seat at a Chinese University.

我敢确信如果你在中国有关大学发现任何一例与招生贿赂有关的案例，你很快就会看到处理结果。人们不会忍耐很久的。中国不会把贿赂看作“捐赠”或“礼物惠赠”将其当成条例写在大学录取（条件中）。在中国，接受高等教育的渠道是透明的。他们有一套完整的测试体系（指高考）。如果你是少数民族你可以获得额外加分，你是外国人或者海外华人你也可以在考试中获得一点额外分数，如果你是省级以上运动员或者学术竞赛冠军你也可以获得一些加分或者一份中国大学的保送名额。

From a student's stand point the gaokao system is simple and transparent. The accident of their birth into the "right" family doesn't weigh as much as it does in the US admission system for top tier university.

从学生的角度来说高考系统是简单且透明的。由于出生在“正确”的家庭而产生的意外事件以及其入学影响力比在美国顶尖大学入学录取制度当中要少得多。

-------------译者：mkmkzmk-审核者：mkmkzmk------------

[–]MaoZePedo2 1 指标 7小时前 
Again most of these legacy acceptances are coming from highly qualified applicants. Without high grades great standardized tests and solid extracurriculars they would likely not be admitted. Your idea that c-students are being accepted due to legacy besides in a few extreme cases is not correct.
Regarding your gaokao point corruption is present at all levels of Chinese society. The numerous gaokao cheating scandals involving the bribing of exam administrators is partial evidence of this. The population has no problem tolerating bribery from their government officials as in the case of Ping's 100s of millions in offshore accounts so I do not know why it would be condemned in college admissions. You also left out the fact that students from Beijing Shanghai and other major cities have preferred access to the top universities as they are located in their provinces/areas.

再者，这些传承录取生们大多都是高品质的申请者。如果没有高分、好的标准化测试成果和扎实的课外活动的话他们是不会通过申请的。除了一些极端情况，你的C等成绩学生能靠父母馀荫而入学名校的想法是不正确的。关于你说的高考的那几点，腐败现象是存在于中国社会的各个层面上的。众多高考作弊丑闻涉及贿赂考试管理员就是部分证据。人们完全容忍接受贿赂政府官员的现象，就好比平海外账户下有数百万元的金额，所以我不知道为什么这会在大学招生中受到谴责。你还遗漏了一个事实，来自北京、上海和其他主要城市的学生更容易进入顶尖大学，因为他们所在的省/地区。
（译注：legacy admission——传承录取，这种有歧视色彩的录取方式偏向于校友子女，特别是腰缠万贯的校友）

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan 1 指标 4小时前 
If you want a full argument against legacy admissions in the US I'm not sure this is the right format for this kind of discussion. The numbers don't look to good for Ivies and legacy admission. If you look at Havard only 20% of the student body come from household making less than $65000 a year at this level student qualify for free tuition. The sad fact of this figure is that the majority of the students come from very wealth families. "Dinner clubs" are just another social economic barrier at this schools once a student gains admission.

如果你想对美国的传承录取入学申请进行充分辩论，我不确定这是个讨论此类话题的正确形式。常春藤的传承录取生数据并不太好看。如果你看哈佛就会发现只有20%的学生来自年收入低于6万5千美元的家庭，而这种家庭背景的学生学费是减免的。这个数字令人悲哀，事实上大多数学生都来自非常富有的家庭。“晚餐俱乐部”只是学生入学后的另一个社会经济障碍。

The legacy admission was originally enacted to keep Jews out of these schools. Now they are used along with holistic admissions to keep the next generation of new immigrant Asian American students out of these schools.
There's been number put out there that being an legacy admission is equivalent to 120 points on the SAT. Which basically means there is 2 admission process to elite colleges; one for legacy and one for non-legacy.
Philosophically it's basically are you rewarding the current generation applicants for the success of their parents or are you rewarding the current generation of applicants for their own academic performance for elite undergraduate education.
I will not bother with hukou and primary school accusation because the same happens in the US. You have to be in the right neighborhood go to the right feeder schools to increase your odds of gaining elite college admission in the US.

传承录取制度最初是为了防止犹太人进入这些学校。现在它和整体评估录取招生一起被用来让下一代新移民亚裔美国学生远离这些学校。有数据表明，传承录取生相当于在SAT考试中只会拿到120分。这就意味着精英学府有两种招生录取程序：一种为传承录取生提供，一种为非关系户提供。从哲学上讲，基本上你是因其父母的成功而奖励当前一代申请者，还是因其在精英本科教育中拿到优异学术成绩而奖励当前一代申请者呢？我不会指责户口制度和小学（招生制度），因为在美国也是一样。在美国你必须生活在正确的社区，进入正确的直属学校才能增加你进入精英学府的机会。

However the gaokao is probably the great equalizer in term of getting an elite education and access to social economic mobility in China.
America is where lazy 福二代 go because as some of poster here having admitting to being "ghost writers" and private college counselors in China not because the Chinese are corrupt but because the elite college admission process was corrupted by the 1% for generations already. The Chinese international students are just the new generations of 1% taking advantage of it.
What system does China use to prevent this kind of social economic corruption in undergraduate admission? The gaokao.

然而，在中国高考换言之可能是获得精英教育和获得社会经济流动力的伟大公平竞争手段。美国是懒惰的福二代会去的地方，因为正如这里的一些回复中所论述的那样，（他们是靠）“代笔”和私人高校升学顾问（才入学的），这并非说中国人很腐败，而是精英大学的录取过程早已被这1%的人给损坏了。中国国际留学生就是那1%的新生代。中国使用什么制度来防止这种本科招生社会经济的腐败现象？那就是高考。

-------------译者：兜兜风ddf-审核者：hht288------------

[–]MaoZePedo2 1 指标 4小时前
I'm not going to address your legacy points, as I've already made my argument clear that the legacy students being accepted are almost always of high quality. Where's the source of your 120 points claim?

我不打算纠正你对传承录取生的论述观点，因为我早已清楚表明我对此的观点了，那就是这就是被录取的传承录取生大多数本身就是高水准的。你说他们只有SAT120分水平的信息是从哪儿来的？

You also seem to not understand that the Chinese students being accepted in top American colleges usually--on average--have higher test scores than domestic applicants, as international admissions are more competitive. The lazy Chinese students you are referring to are going to colleges outside the top 50, which is a different process altogether.

你似乎也不了解那些被美国顶尖大学录取的中国学生通常——平均而论——他们的测试成绩比国内的申请者更高，因为国际招生更具竞争力。你指的那些懒惰的中国学生进去的是50强以外的大学，而这与上述是完全不同的招生录取过程。

In terms of the Gaokao, do you understand that students from top Chinese high schools can take direct admission tests and avoid the Gaokao? Isn't that putting the upper class at an advantage? I also think it's laughable that you don't think there is widespread bribery going on in Chinese university admissions, as it exists in every other aspect of Chinese society. You are also ignoring the fact that many low-performing students are forced out of high school to avoid bringing down a school's average gaokao score.

就高考而言，你是否了解，中国顶尖高中的学生可以不参加高考直接进行大学招生考试。这不正说明了上层阶级更有优势吗？你要说你不认为中国大学招生中存在着广泛的贿赂行为那才可笑呢，因为它存在于中国社会的方方面面。而且你也忽略了这样一个事实，许多（成绩）表现不好的学生是会被被迫劝退高中的，以避免降低学校的高考平均分。

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan 1 指标 3小时前
My bad it was Princeton's Thomas Espenshade that found legacy advantage was equivalent to a 160-point swing on an SAT score. I'm typing these stats from memory.

我的错。来源出处是普林斯顿大学的托马斯?伊斯潘沙德教授称传承录取生的水平相当于在SAT考试中只考到160分。我是凭记忆打下这些数据的。

Sure if you find cases of wide spread corruption in undergraduate admissions in China's top university, feel free to report it. I'm pretty sure under the current administration they want to fight corruption.

当然，如果你发现中国顶尖大学本科招生中存在广泛腐败的案例，欢迎你大举报道。我很确定，在当前的招生状态下，他们的政府是想打击腐败现象的。

The difference in China is that all the top schools are public schools. Best high schools and college are all public schools. So in some regards I would say wealth was not that much of a determining factor for students. Student have to do well on the zhongkao for admission to the top high schools throughout China. There's concern about hukou and seat allotment, but those are tried to provincial and national funding conditions at those school. Because these are public schools with funding from provincial level, of course they will allow more students from Shanghai if the college is in Shanghai, since it draws more money from Shanghai provincial government.

对比中国的差别在于，其所有的顶尖学校都是公立学校。最好的高中和大学都是公立学校。所以在某些方面，我会说学生本身的富有程度对学生入学来说并不是一个决定性因素。学生要进入全国顶尖高中就必须在中考取得好成绩。有人担心户口和座位分配制度，但学校这么做是为了省和国家的资助条件。因为这些都是省级经费的公立学校，所以如果学校是在上海的话，他们当然会允许更多的上海学生入学，因为校方从上海省政府哪里汲取了更多的资金。

Here's Philip Exeter's college acceptance rate. https://www.exeter.edu/sites/default/files/documents/college_matriculation.pdf

这是Philip Exeter的大学录取率报告。

It's a private boarding school for wealthy legacy and a feeder into the highly selective college. Wealth really matters for entrance to elite universities in the US.

作为一个私人寄宿学校，它得借助富有校友的馈赠才能成为一个高度选择性的学院（指重点大学）。有钱与否对进入美国精英大学来说确实非常重要。

Yes international students to the US compete among themselves in their own "folder" allocate for applicants from those regions, which drives up the lowest test score for admission to those schools. However, their true appeal to US college is that they pay full tuition with no financial aid from the US gov't.

是的，这些国际学生与跟他来自同一地区的申请者竞争，这拉低了入学分数门槛。然而，他们对美国大学的真正吸引力在于他们不用靠美国政府资助就能支付的全额学费。

-------------译者：心瀚之涟-审核者：hht288------------

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/world/asia/china-renmin-university-admission-bribery.html
This kind of corruption? And this is only one case. How many more would be uncovered if china had a free press?
You are also omitting that fact that dozens of top American colleges offer need blind admissions and that many students at top boarding schools and colleges are on school-provided financial aid--50 percent at Exeter.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/world/asia/china-renmin-university-admission-bribery.html

这种腐败吗？这只是一个例子，如果中国新闻媒体能自由报道的话还会有多少被曝光出来呢？你也忽略了这样一个事实，那就是美国许多顶尖大学对学生的家庭经济状况并不在意关注，许多顶尖寄宿学府和大学的学生都在接受学校提供的经济资助——在埃克塞特大学，这一比例为50%。

[–]faceroll_itUnited States 4 指标 21小时前 
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

震惊，你说的每句话都是错的。

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan 1 指标 15小时前 
HYP and highly sextive University all work more or less the same in their admission process. It's heavily favored towards the wealthy in the USA. The children of wealthy parents need less academic qualifications to get in.

HYP和高选择性大学在录取过程中或多或少都是一样运作的。它在美国很受富人的青睐。富裕父母的子女不需要较高的学术资格就能进入。
（译注：HYP是哈佛大学、耶鲁大学和普林斯顿大学的合称）

Which is contrary to the gaokao admission process. The only thing similar to the gaokao I've seen in the US admission process is the SHSAT for high school. You can only prepare for the test. 
Donating to the high schools being a former alumni of the high schools and race have nothing to do with their admission process.
In the USA wealth alumni status and race matters quite a bit in the admissions process to highly sextive colleges.
I'm not talking about community college here.

这与高考招生录取过程正好相反。我在美国录取过程中看到的唯一一个与高考类似的事是高中的SHSAT考试。你只能为考试做准备。是否给学校捐款，是否有校友亲戚，是否是少数群体都与能否被录取无关。在美国高选择性学校的招生过程中财富、校友身份和种族问题都非常重要。在这里我不讨论社区大学。
（译注：SHSAT——Specialized High School Admissions Test特殊高中入学测验）

[–]faceroll_itUnited States 0 指标 15小时前 
I don’t think anyone was talking about community college.
You’re still wrong. Honestly sounds like you have no clue how top ranking uni admissions work.

我认为没有人在谈论社区大学。你还是错的。讲实话，听起来你根本不晓得顶尖大学是如何进行招生工作的。

[–]Suavecake12Taiwan 1 指标 14小时前 
Sure you know how the admission process works at HYP...lol.
How would a community college kid like you know...lol.

好吧，那你就知道HYP这三所高等学府是怎么进行招生的.....真好笑。像你这样一个社区大学的学生怎么会知道......笑死人了。

[–]ryslaysall -1 指标 18小时前 
The US admission for elite schools is easily influenced by money. Donate a new building your kid is in.
Gotta agree with this though

“美国名校的招生很容易受到金钱的影响。给学校捐赠一栋新大楼，你的孩子就能进去了。”
虽然这一点我很认同。

[–]faceroll_itUnited States 2 指标 18小时前 
Tens of thousands of students are admitted each year. How often do you think one or two kids are admitted due to a large donation per year?

每年成千上万的学生被录取。你认为多久会出现一次因为巨额捐赠而孩子被录取的事？

[–]ryslaysall 0 指标 16小时前 
Maybe because only a few can afford large donation...?

（不常出现）可能是因为没几个人出得起这种巨额捐款.....？

[–]faceroll_itUnited States 1 指标 16小时前 
Exactly. So it doesn’t even matter because less than 0.01% of admissions every few years get in because of money.

完全正确。.所以每年因为金钱捐赠而进入顶尖大学的人还不到0.01%，所以情况其实没那么严重。

[–]ryslaysall 1 指标 16小时前 
The US admission for elite schools is easily influenced by money. Donate a new building your kid is in.
So this statement is still correct

“美国名校的招生很容易受到金钱的影响。给学校捐赠一栋新大楼，你的孩子就能进去了。”
所以这个论述观点还是正确的。

[–]faceroll_itUnited States 1 指标 16小时前 
Sure. If that makes you feel better.

是的，它是正确的，你开心就好。