为什么说中国的新航母将基于苏联蓝图？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：光脚上街-审核者：恶魔果、手术刀------------



China has at last formally acknowledged that it has a new aircraft carrier under construction, the first to be built in China and the second in the People's Liberation Army-Navy's order of battle.

中国终于正式承认正在建造新的航空母舰，第一艘自主建造的航空母舰，也是解放军海军的第二艘航母。

The PLA Navy appears to have embarked on a substantial carrier program, probably with the intention of creating four and perhaps up to six carrier battle groups (Chinese commentators have publicly acknowledged the need for at least three units in order to have an effective carrier capability). The rehabilitated ex-Russian carrier Liaoning, designated Carrier 16, has been the start of this effort, although its reliability has yet to be confirmed.

中国人民解放军似乎已经着手实质性的航空母舰项目，很有可能建造4艘，也有可能是6艘的战斗航母（中国评论员公开表示，至少需要3个航母战斗群才能形成有效的航母能力）。重建的前俄罗斯（实际为乌克兰）航母辽宁号，也称为“航母16”是本项目的开始，虽然其可靠性还有待确认。

-------------译者：md11-审核者：duangduang------------

Experience gained with the ship will be used to evolve the follow-on units which are entering production. However, the challenge involved with these new carriers will not so much be the build, but the design. That the first new-built carrier will be in most respects a copy of the Soviet designed Liaoning should be no surprise. This is China's only practicable course of action if it is to get another unit into service in good time.

从辽宁号上获得的经验将被用于提升和改进之后投产的航母。然而，新建航母这个过程中最具挑战性的不是怎么建造，而是怎么设计的问题。这艘新建的航母总体上就是复制了前苏联时期建造的辽宁号应该是没有什么悬念的。这是中国在短期内获得另一支航母战斗群最为现实的手段。

The PLA Navy was able to extract eight truckloads of detailed plans of theLiaoning from the Ukrainian vendors. These will have to be the foundation of the present activity because China is now facing the same reality that has dogged the efforts of all the major navies of the last century. The greatest restraint on naval expansion in the industrial age has been neither budgets nor disarmament treaties. It has in fact been the lack of drafting expertise to translate the design concepts of naval architects into the detailed compartment-by-compartment drawings that allow the shipbuilders to do their work (arguably, this has been a key problem for Australia with the new Air Warfare Destroyers). The scale of the effort involved is demonstrated by the report that the Liaoning's documentation amounted to many tons of paper.

解放军海军从乌克兰供货商那里获得了八卡车的高精度图纸（这个梗总感觉是出口转内销的），这些资料肯定会为这个目前正在进行的项目打下重要的基础，因为目前中国也面临着上世纪困扰各个海上力量强国的现实问题。在工业化时代扩张海军力量的制约不是资金也不是裁军条约，而是缺少能够把舰艇设计者的设计理念转化成一个舱室一个舱室的高精度图纸，并让造船厂顺利的开展他们工作的专业技能和知识（可以说，这是澳大利亚在开发新一代防空驱逐舰项目上所出现的最关键的问题）。解决这个问题的努力，其规模在有关辽宁舰的报道里已经有所展现，据称有关这艘船的纸质记录资料多达数吨之多。


-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：duangduang------------

Paul Dean • 2 days ago
While they're making progress they're years away from a true blue water capability because they lack the ships, seamanship, technical experience and maturity to make it work effectively. Group operations requires all hands performing their jobs in concert with each other as part of a total team effort and the only way to gain the necessary skill sets to accomplish this is by actually do it. Otherwise they'll be fishing their Sailors out of the sea because they weren't ready when someone took them to task. It's how it normally goes in the real world where whatever can go wrong in combat usually does.

 虽然他们一直在稳步前进，（但）他们仍然需要花费数年时间去发展他们的深蓝海军能力，因为他们缺乏船舰、航海科技、研发经验以及完备能力去使得它（航母）有效地运作。指挥系统要求全体将士作为团体工作的一部分一致的履行他们的职责，并且这是让他们获得必备技能以图完成任务的唯一的途径，实际上也正是如此。否则他们就只能（等着）在被消灭之后去打捞他们的船员了，因为他们甚至在被锁定为攻击目标的时候都没有（能够做出应对的）准备。通常战争之中可能出现的差错都将直接影响现实中的（战局）走向。
 
howitzer8 • 2 days ago
Having the plans to built a carrier is one thing. Having the industrial infrastructure to do it is another. Even if everything goes well for China I doubt they can produce a capable carrier for decades.

计划要建造一艘航母是一回事，要具备工业基础设施（去实施）又是另一回事。就算一切顺利我怀疑中国也无法生产出一艘能运作几十年的航母来。

-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：duangduang------------

Frank 14°35'N/120°59'E  howitzer8 • 2 days ago
Hey, don't be too hard on China. They have shown to have copied some serious military stuff, both from the US and Russia. Now that Star Wars- The Force Awakens is shown, I bet they will have a T-70 X-Wing Starfighter flying in a few years. Maybe, a Millenium Falcon too!

 嘿，不要太为难中国啦。他们已经显示出出了在抄袭一些重要军事物资（上的能力），不管是来自美国还是俄罗斯。现在星球大战7——原力觉醒已经上映了，我敢打赌他们几年之后就会让一架T-70 X翼星战机飞起来。或者，一架千年隼也说不定哦！
 
Eagle • 3 days ago
They should just build a giant barge carrier and tow it around with tugs.

 他们也就是造了一艘巨型载驳船并且用拖船拉着它到处晃而已。
 
Satyamev Jayate  Eagle • 2 days ago
Dont worry. They will load the barge carrier with High grade explosives and tow it to US aircraft carrier group to wipe it out.

 不必担心。他们会在载驳船里填满高级炸药并且把它拉到美国的航母战斗群里面引爆它。
 
Eagle  Satyamev Jayate • 2 days ago
It would be sunk before it gets close.

 它会在接近（敌人）之前就沉没。
 
Hi banana republic  Eagle • 2 days ago
R U refer to yr pump boat...HAHAHA

 你说的是你的泵船么……哈哈哈
 
Chuan Wong • 2 days ago
China only knows how steal or copy, except doing it on their own.

 中国就知道偷窃和抄袭，除了自力更生。
 
JIHAD KILLER • 2 days ago
hehe, thats what happens when chicoms copy everything.

呵呵，这就是共产主义中国抄袭一切的后果。

-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：duangduang------------

hoyt • 2 days ago
Thats Great! But hey still haven't been able to land on the FIRST ONE THEY BUILT! The first three top gun test pilots were killed in there attempts.WE MAKE IT LOOK EASY ITS NOT!

 好极了！但他们仍然无法在他们建造的第一艘（航母）上着陆！他们的首批三个精英测试飞行员都牺牲了。我们让这件事情看起来很容易但实际上并不是！
 
Omama the Nut  hoyt • 2 days ago
LOL!!
The first jet fighter type J15 landed on the carrier in Nov 2012.
You won't get this on cnn/cnbc/fox.

 笑死我了！！
歼15喷气式战斗机在2012年11月第一次在航母上成功着陆。
你不可能在CNN/CNBC/FOX 上看到这个。
 
Michael Johnson • a day ago
One can do wonders with stolen technology and blue prints..Ask any Chinese hacker..I'm really getting tired of china..aren't any of you?

 一个利用窃取科技和蓝图来制造奇迹的国家。。去询问任何一个中国黑客吧。。我真的已经对中国感到厌烦了。。你们也一样吧？
 
Hi banana republic  Michael Johnson • a day ago
I AM GETTING TIRED OF WHAT SNOWDEN TELL ABOUT HOW US HACK INTO EVERYTHING AND THEY KEEP SHOWING UP....AREN'T U
WHY US SPACE SHUTTLE LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME AS RUSSIAN 1
One can do wonders with stolen technology and blue prints

我已经对斯诺登述说的美国如何入侵一切系统并且他们还在继续（这种行为）感到厌烦了。。。。你们也一样吧？
为什么美国的太空梭跟俄罗斯的长得这么像？
一个利用窃取科技和蓝图来制造奇迹的国家

-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：duangduang------------

Michael Johnson  Hi banana republic • a day ago
hmm..Russia has space shuttle??Never hear that one before..maybe space station..That will be what blueprints Chinese steal next how to buil space station..hahaha

 嗯。。。俄罗斯有太空梭？表示从来没听说过。。可能是空间站吧。。那中国人将要要窃取的下一份蓝图就是关于如何建设太空站吧。。哈哈哈
 
Hi banana republic  Michael Johnson • a day ago
google search what Russian space shuttle look like it is that simple
Oh thanks for remind me US don't know how to make the space station but do know how to vertically land on the moon and vertically take off but still can't do it on earth today...amazing isn't it

 这很简单去谷歌一下俄罗斯的太空梭跟谁像吧
噢感谢提醒了我美国不知道如何建设空间站但知道如何在月球上垂直降落和起飞却又仍然无法在地球上这么干。。。多么让人惊讶
 
O_Pinion • a day ago
The next Chinese carrier will be based on Soviet designs? Well, the Internet connection to the US must have been down that day.

下一艘中国航母将基于苏联设计？好吧，那天接往美国的网络链接肯定是坏掉了。

-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：duangduang------------
 
Duke • 2 days ago
"China's" aircraft carrier will be based on Russian blueprints because Chinese education kills creativity. They don't have the ability to come up with their own design. They have been known to make improvements on the inventions of others but ask them to come up with a completely new design and all you'll get is a blank stare. It's not that the population of China is not creative. In ancient China, inventions were common. However, ever since they killed or drove off all the intellectuals during the cultural revolution. They installed an education system that is based on wrote memorization and forces children to spend hours everyday memorizing information from books to take tests. This leaves no time for imagination or creativity. Anyone who understands the Chinese education system knows why China has to copy everything. It's not their fault. The are products of a system that only teaches them how to copy. I pity them.

 “中国的”航空母舰将基于俄罗斯的蓝本（设计）是因为中国式教育摧毁了创造力。他们没有能力提出自己的设计。世人皆知他们只能在别人的发明创造上作出改进，但（如果你）要求他们完整地提出新设计那么你就会（从他们那里）得到一片茫然。这并不是说中国的人都没有创意。在古代中国，发明创造只是信手拈来。不过，（这种情况）自从他们在文化大革命中杀死或驱离了所有的知识分子之后（就发生了改变）。他们运行的教育系统是基于读写记忆的，并且强迫孩子们每天花费许多时间去记忆书本上的信息用于考试。这使得他们无暇（去进行）想象或创造。所有了解中国教育系统的人都知道为什么中国必须要到处抄袭。这并不是他们的错。他们是这个只教育了他们如何抄袭的系统的产物。我同情他们。

Peter_T  Duke • 2 days ago
they have no experience in designing a carrier. It takes time to know something from copying first. Look at their jet fighters, how far they have come. Same will happen to carriers.

他们没有设计航母的经验。（所以）首先得花时间通过复制去了解一些东西。看看他们的喷气式战斗机吧，他们学得多快啊。这也同样会发生在航母上。

-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：恶魔果、手术刀------------

nvtncs • 2 days ago
"Why China's Next Aircraft Carrier Will Be Based on Soviet Blueprints"
Building a super carrier is a massive and complicated feat that takes bleeding edge technology and engineering excellence to accomplish.
It would take China decades to catch up, if ever.

 “为什么中国的下一艘航空母舰将基于苏联的蓝本”
建造一艘超级航母是一项繁重且复杂的壮举，需要最前沿的科技和最高端的工程技术去完成。
这将会花费中国数十年的时间去追赶前人的脚步，如果真的是这样。
 
Omama the Nut  nvtncs • 2 days ago
We note that the previous defence secretary Robert Gates said the same thing about China not been able to come up with a stealth fighter earlier than 2020.
How wrong he was!
China promptly showed him the stealth fighter type J20 on the day that his plane landed in Beijing for a visit, on the 11th of Jan 2011.
Now, the J20 is ready for mass production.
We note too that western commentators claimed that China will not be able to land any jet on the Liaoning after it was handled over to the PLAN on Sep 2012 because the carrier has "no capability" to arrest the landing jets. Less than 2 months later, the J15 fighter jets first landed on the carrier.
DO you really think that it is THAT difficult to build a so called super carrier? Takes DECADES??
LMAO!!

我们要注意的是，前任国防部长罗伯特盖茨说过同性质的言论关于中国无法在2020年以前研发出隐形战斗机。
他错的有多么离谱！
中国马上就发布了他们的歼20隐形战斗机，就在他国事访问的飞机降落在北京的那一天，就在2011年1月份的第11天。
现在，歼20已经在准备量产了。
我们同样要注意到西方评论员主张中国（就算）在2012年9月辽宁号按照计划交付之后（也）无法让任何喷射机在上面着陆，因为这艘航母无法捕捉到喷射机的飞行轨迹。（但是）不到2个月以后，歼15喷气式战斗机第一次在航母上（成功）着陆了。
你真的认为建造一艘所谓的超级航母是有多困难吗？（居然还要）花费数十年？？
笑死我了！！

-------------译者：shampo山炮-审核者：恶魔果、手术刀------------

Angel • 2 days ago
China is stealing Soviet blueprints!

 中国正在偷窃苏联设计蓝图！
 
Omama the Nut • 2 days ago
One wonders why are the americano cowboys so worried about Chinese military might when they say that the Chinese hardware are sub standard compared to their so called "superior" hardware?
With the "super duper" F22s and F35s and so many aircraft carriers, why are the americano cowboys so worried sick?
Could it be due to their defeat by the Chinese in the 1950 Korean War?
Or could it be due to their defeat in the Vietnam War where the Chinese aided the vietcongs?
Or could it be because, with so much so called hardware superiority over weaker opponents, such as the Iraqis and the Afghans, the americano cowboys couldn't even win?
Hmmmmm....

真奇怪为什么美国牛仔对于中国的军事力量如此担忧，当他们说中国的武器装备达到了与他们所谓的“尖端”武器装备同样的标准的时候？
坐拥“超精尖”的F22 猛禽战斗机和F35 闪电II战斗机以及数量庞大的航空母舰，为什么他们还是闷闷不乐？
难道是因为他们在1950年的朝鲜战争中受到过中国的挫败？
或者是因为他们在越南战争中被中国帮助的越共挫败？
或者是因为，拥有这么多的所谓的武器装备上的优势，而面对着像伊拉克和阿富汗这种较弱的对手，美国牛仔却连一次都没有赢过？
呵呵呵……

-------------译者：恶魔果、手术刀-审核者：恶魔果、手术刀------------

Dodo • 10 hours ago
Build large nuclear powered navy would bankrupt China. It also doesn't serve China's A2/AD strategy. With good A2/AD in place and sound economy and finance, China can then engage with US for its rise into super power.
For China, the main battle field is not military but economy. For instance, if RMB internationalization is successful (majority of China trade settle in RMB), then, US will soon lost its ability to fund it military at current scale. Strong military force capable of executing A2/AD is to protect China from military threat in her economic struggles.

Dodo - 10小时前
建立强大的核武海军将会拖垮中国，同时也不符合中国的反介入（A2/AD）战略。中国拥有了适当的反介入（A2/AD）能力、以及稳健的经济和金融，然后就可以在与美国的角力中崛起为超级强国。
对于中国，最主要的战场不是军事领域，而是经济。举个例子，如果人民币国际化成功了（中国的大多数贸易采用人民币结算）的话，美国将会很快失去维持当前规模海军的能力，具备了反介入（A2/AD）能力的强大军事力量是为了能够保护中国在他的经济斗争中免受外来军事威胁。

 -------------译者：恶魔果、手术刀-审核者：恶魔果、手术刀------------

Justanotherviewer • 2 days ago
There has been some reports stating that China had gotten blueprints for the Ulyanovsk carrier which has a ski jump and catapult system +nuclear propulsion. It was 10 000 tones heavier than the Kuznetsov class but it is similar in dimensions. If China did built something like that it would mark a radical change of capability. It does not have to be as big as a Nimitz but the fact that it can operate without range limit and can launch the full consortium of fixed wing aircraft would make it a first class capital surface ship.
Markedly it did be giving the author to much credit by correctly guessing the type of carrier that China is going to build, and quite frankly apart from the US, Brazile and France every single other nation that owns a carrier had opted for the ski ramp tech and thus looks remarkably similar to the Kuznetsov classes. You can't really diverge much from the common theme of a aircraft carrier.
 
Justanotherviewer • 两天前
已经有报导说中国获得了乌里扬诺夫斯克航母的设计图，其中有滑跃式起飞、弹射系统、核动力推进技术，它和库兹涅佐夫级尺寸相似，但却比后者重1万吨。如果中国确实依照设计图建造成形，将标志着其在能力上有了彻底的改变，中国的航母没有必要造的和尼米兹级一样大，只要实现在海上航行没有范围性的限制，并且能够起飞所有固定翼飞机，这就足以使它成为世界一流的重量级水面战舰。
能够正确猜测到中国将要建造的航母类型确实会明显提高写作者的信誉度，坦白来说除了美国、巴西和法国，其他任何一个拥有航母的国家都选择了滑跃式技术并且看起来都明显地类似于库兹涅佐夫级，你总不能和航母发展中的普遍经验背道而驰吧。
 
Jack • 2 days ago
Quote: Why China's Next Aircraft Carrier Will Be Based on Soviet Blueprints:
Answer: Because no nations with aircraft carrier technology would volunteer to give China the blueprints not even Russia for obvious reasons. China got the Liaoning from the junkyard sales.

Jack • 2 days ago（两天前）
引用：为什么说中国的新航母将基于苏联蓝图
回复：原因很明显，因为没有国家愿意将航母设计图给中国，甚至俄罗斯也不愿意，中国改造前的辽宁舰是从垃圾场买来的。