非洲人对中国的评论 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：Moonrabbit-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



Do Africans really think that China cares about them?

非洲人真的以为中国人关心他们么？

Stone Atwine Founder at Eversend
No. Africans do not think China Cares about them.
China does not care about us. Actually no country cares about us. They care about us as much as any country does. The USA France UK anyone Zilch.

不。非洲人民并不觉得中国人关心他们。中国并不在乎我们。事实上，没有哪个国家关心我们。中国人想从非洲得到的利益与世界各国相差无几- 他们和美国人，法国人，英国人的诉求没有区别。

The differnce between the Chinese and any other country is their honesty. They don't show up with a holier than thou attitude. They come for business mutually benefical business. It may not be fair but it's clear: You get a power dam or a road we get oil or uranium.

中国与那些国家的不同之处在于诚实 ；他们不会用一副高高在上的态度打量非洲这片土地。他们来非洲是做生意，互利互惠的生意。这种交易可能是不公平，但却是明确的：你修建水坝、铺公路；我提供石油/铀矿。

Some people show up with aid and 1000 strings attached. We do not need aid we need business.
Aid is a curse.

某些国家携援助之名而来，而援助的背后却是数不清的隐藏条款。我们非洲人民不需要他人附带条件的施舍；我们需要的是生意！援助是毒。

Richard Ali
China is an honest dealer. What you see is what you get. And they are here to trade. After the duplictious manipulative hypocritical relations with the West no African or conutry thinks "care" is an important ingredient for anything other than raising children. In fact we categorically reject being "cared" for. We are. precisely not filial. On this we have no illusions.

中国是一个诚信的交易伙伴。和中国人做生意，交易的标的总是与实物一致。而他们来非洲是来做生意的。在和奸诈虚伪、控制欲强的西方国家打过交道以后，没有一个非洲人或者非洲国家会认为“他人所谓的关心”会比养育下一代重要。事实上，我们一直拒绝被他人打入另册式的“关照”。非洲国家不再是他国的殖民地，不用向他国尽所谓的“孝道”。对于这点，我们还是有清醒的认知的。

China's intervention in Africa will have the same effect as FDR's New Deal. Already we are seeing effects. The West had its chance but after colonialism and neocolonialism they still deployed ruinous Structural Adjustment policies predicated on earlier "loans" that masked massive illegal money flows to Westtern corporations. We are still trying to crawl out of the massive dislocations of that "adjustment" so spare us the care thank you.

中国对非洲国家的干预效果不亚于罗斯福新政之于美国。我们已经注意到这些积极的影响。在殖民时期和新殖民时期给予非洲大地无尽苦难的西方国家本有机会在这一切之后改邪归正，然而他们依旧通过国际货币基金组织推行毁灭性的“结构调整政策”，用贷款要挟非洲各国政府同意西方跨国公司将违规资金装进他们自己的腰包。我们还在努力弥补这一系列“调整”带来的损失。求别“特殊关照”，谢谢你们了。

China wants markets we have it. Africa wants technological expertise China has it. Give me China any day.

中国想要市场，我们非洲有市场。非洲想要技术专长，这方面中国有。所以我选择中国，没毛病。

Fatima Sow
China doesn't care about anything than profits but it's WAY better than "help" from the West with strings attached in the name of human rights etc.

中国关心的只有利益。然而，这远比西方国家假借人权之名、附带无数条款的“援助要高尚得多！

Africa is an ENTIRE continent. It has ability to define it's own set of norms and values the West should stop meddling in our affairs. Why don't they follow our norms instead? Who has been given the mantle to define what is right? Who gave them that mantle in the first place? We are autonomous countries not people asking for shelter to live in the backyared of the rich West's house because we can't afford an expensive house at the moment.

非洲国家构成了非洲整个大陆。非洲有能力定义属于这片大陆自己的法规和价值取向，西方国家无权且不要再干涉我们非洲国家的内政事务了。谁给了西方国家不遵守非洲国家法规的权力？到底是谁躲在暗处指手画脚?又有哪个国家给了他们这项权力？我们非洲国家是独立自主的国家，我们非洲人民不是暂住在西方发达国家后院里的流浪汉，因为此刻我们可没有闲钱买下这栋奢侈的“资本大宅”。

NO COUNTRY HAS EVER BECOME DEVELOPED THROUGH AID. Except for times of natural disasters aid has just brought a dependency syndrome where governments shoot up their budgets planning for huge deficits proundly.

没有哪个国家是通过别国援助成为发达国家的。除去应对自然灾害的时期外，援助只会让非洲国家心生依赖，过上举巨债过日子却洋洋自得不自知的日子。

Mohan Anoop Founder
Africa doesn't need anybody's care. Contrary to the pity that the west thinks Africa deserves the great continent only deserves respect which the west seems unwilling to give.

非洲不需要他人的关心施舍！非洲恰恰不需要的就是西方理所当然投以的怜悯目光，这片伟大的大陆需要的只是尊重，而这却是西方不愿给与的。

China India and other growing economies had the same fate the countries in Africa had for multiple centuries brought to us by western Europeans who thought they were more civilized and sophisticated.

数个世纪以来，中国、印度以及其他新兴经济体都有过与非洲国家相同的遭遇，那就是来自西欧国家的轻视入侵：因为他们自以为其有着更成熟、发达的文明。


-------------译者：WOKKAO-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]TheMediumPanda 29 指标 4小时前* 
Interesting. Not sure I'd agree with everything 100% but valid points are definitely made. I think they probably gloss over how some African leaders are bought and paid for by China and that Comrade Xi most definitely will start pushing his weight around if debt payments aren't kept up. I don't think they worry too much right now since projecting power still is China's weakness but 10-15 years into the future when they plan to have at least 6 carrier groups and likely a fully operational deep water port/navy base somewhere in Africa as well things could look very different. I hope Africa can get their shit together because of the history on much of the continent so maybe China's arrival is a blessing. Who knows?

有趣。我不知道中国人会不会关心非洲人民的死活，但他们一定会做出对自己有利的举动。我想他们可能会掩饰中国收买一些非洲国家的领导人的行径，而且如果非洲国家还不上债务，席同志肯定会借此来延伸他的力量。我认为中国人应该对此担心，因为现阶段（军事）远程力量投放仍是中国的弱点，但未来10-15年，当他们计划建设至少6个航母战斗群，并可能在非洲的某处建立一个全负荷运转的深水港或是海军基地时，事态可能会完全不同。我希望非洲人能振作起来，所以中国的到来可能是件好事。但谁知道呢？

[–]Sparkykun 5 指标 4小时前 
"Exporting pollution to Africa"

“中国向非洲出口污染。”

[–]LushLova -1 指标 4小时前 
"I hope Africa can get their shit together"........
like they put themselves in this state? are you kidding me?

“我希望非洲人能团结一致重新振作起来“……
像他们现在那样能振作起来？你在逗我？

[–]TheMediumPanda 13 指标 3小时前 
You're assuming I don't think colonialism created massive problems still persisting today. That's incorrect. It doesn't take away from the fact that so many African countries are rife with corruption incompetence and populist leaders. It's in that sense I wrote the sentence.

你在假设，我不同意一个观点，即殖民主义造成了非洲目前仍存在的巨大问题。这并不正确。中国的到来没有消除非洲国家充斥着腐败和无能的民粹主义领导人的事实。我是从这个意义层面上写下那句话的。

[–]Sparkykun 2 指标 4小时前 
Do they look like they know how to manage a country?

非洲人懂得怎么管理一个国家吗？

[–]TheDark1 17 指标 3小时前 
Africans have every right to be furious with western countries but the current relationship with China is not going to be as "mutually beneficial" as they believe. It has all the hallmarks of the colonial power relationships of the 19th century; A exports raw materials to B B exports finished goods to A. Africa will remain unable to manufacture goods unable to create value from their own resources.

非洲人完全有权对西方国家愤怒，但就目前他们与中国的关系来说，这并不是他们所认为的“互利互惠”。中国与非洲的关系具有19世纪殖民关系中的所有特征：A向B出口原材料，B向A出口成品。非洲仍不能自己生产商品，无法从他们自己的资源中创造出价值。

I also think that the west deserves some credit for trying to address historical crimes. Yes it has not always been done well and it can be seen as patronizing but it remains a fact that there are a great many people in the west who feel deeply sorry for what has happened in Africa and want to make things better. Such a pity the large aid organizations are horribly managed.

同时我也认为西方在试图解决历史罪行的问题上值得些赞扬。确实，他们有时做的不好，甚至会高高在上以恩人自居，但实际上仍有许多西方人对他们先祖在非洲犯下的罪行感到羞愧，并希望能做些什么让非洲变得更好。遗憾的是，那些大型援助组织被管理得一塌糊涂。

[–]5ting3rb0ast 2 指标 2小时前 
Do you mean blood diamond?

你指的是“血钻”吗？
（译者注：血钻，也叫战争钻石，指的是在混战地区开采并出售的钻石。这种活动所获暴利除了被当地军阀拿走，其余就进了钻石公司的腰包）

-------------译者：小伙子别跑-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

​[–]curiouskiwicat 5 指标 1小时前*
This is from Quora which raises immediate suspicion about the representativeness of these views. Let me explain:

截图来自知乎，这直接引发了我对这些观点是否有代表性产生了怀疑。我解释一下：

No doubt these are views that are real and sincerely held by some Africans and are certainly worth taking seriously.

毫无疑问，这的确是一些非洲人真实和诚恳的观点，而这当然值得肯定对待。

But there's a huge nationalist Chinese up vote brigade on Quora. Not saying they're "wumaodang" there's just a lot of Chinese nationalists there. Thus on any topic about China the most popular answers are generally gonna be flattering to China.

但在quora上有一个庞大的中国MZ主义点赞队伍。不是说他们都是“五毛党”，只是在他们中有很多很多中国MZ主义者。因此，只要是关于中国的话题，最受欢迎（点赞数最高）的回答通常都是奉承中国的。

As a result I wouldn't infer simply from the number of upvotes that these opinions are even typical of Africans on Quora let alone Africans generally. There could be a whole bunch of answers from Africans complaining about Chinese companies in Africa but you can guarantee they'll get no upvotes get crowded out or even down voted until they're collapsed.

结果就是，在quora上我不会仅仅从点赞的数量就推断出这些意见代表的是典型的非洲人，更不用说是代表普通的非洲人了。可能还有一大堆回复是非洲人抱怨在非洲的中国企业，但我向你保证他们是得不到点赞数的，会挤掉他们，甚至是踩到他们崩溃。

[–]Jman-laowai 12 指标 5小时前
I think it says more about the political situation in Africa than China or the West

我认为比起中国或西方，它说的更多是非洲的政治局势。

[–]SomedudeelsewhereEuropean unx 21 指标 6小时前
Aid was sent to Europe Japan and Korea while rebuilding after ww2/Korean war too why did they not become aid department?

二战后，援助用于欧洲、日本和韩国的战后重建，朝鲜战争后同样也是，他们为什么不成立援助部门呢？

[–]westiseastUnited Kingdom 29 指标 5 小时前
I don’t know much about Korea but post-WW2 Europe and Japan both still had the structures of their prewar institutions and societies that could be built upon. For all their evils Japan and Germany had highly functioning economies and governments pre-war. Europe/Japan almost literally just needed the cash to rebuild stave off temporary ruin and starvation and kickstart industry (gross simplification obviously). There’s still controversy today because post war many businesses and people closely tied to the Nazi party or Japanese Imperial war machine then became critical pillars of the new economies.

关于韩国我知道的不多，但二战后，欧洲和日本都是在其原有的战前机构和社会基础上建立的。虽然他们恶行满满，但日本和德国在战前有着高效强大的经济和政府。欧洲/日本基本上只需要现金来重建延缓其暂时性的地域废墟、饥荒和启动工业就行了（当然这只是简化说下）。今天仍然存在着争议，因为战后，很多与纳粹党或日本帝国战争机器紧密相连的企业和人都成为了新经济的重要支柱。

[–]freedaemons 5 指标 2小时前*
Tanzan Ishibashi ex-journalist and previous Minister of Finance a prime minister with socialist background instated despite opposing General McArthur's policies was conveniently incapacitated after just one month in office and the extreme pro-US Nobusuke Kishi was voted in with enormous funding supplied to the LDP through the CIA: so began the reign of the LDP.

前记者和前财政部长的石桥湛山，一位尽管反对麦克阿瑟将军政策有着社会主义背景的日本首相，执政仅一个月后就因病而不能行动，而后极度亲美的岸信介（安倍外公）当选，通过中情局将巨额资金提供给了自民党，这样自民党就开始了执政。

Japanese government was installed no matter how it looks or works today. It's understandable if African nations don't want to give up their sovereignty to that extent. It's not democracy if a foreign power supports a party to their own benefit.

日本政府已经建立，不管它今天看起来怎样或运作的怎样。如果非洲国家不想放弃主权到那种程度，这可以理解。如果一个外国势力为了自己利益去支持一个政党，那就不是民主了。

[–]erelit 4 指标 5小时前
They were vassal states vital to confronting and containing the Soviet unx.

他们是对抗和遏制苏联的重要附庸国。

-------------译者：梧桐pasky-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]kanada_kid 0 指标 3小时前 
Japans economic miracle only started during the Korean War. The US bought a shit load or things from the Japanese (like vehicles) that acted like an economic stimulus package. Wasnt really aid. I am not really sure about Korea but I think the country wasnt dependent on aid and had a competent government.

日本的经济奇迹在朝鲜战争期间开始。美国从日本购买（比如汽车），这就像是一种经济刺激方案。这并不是真正的援助。我对韩国不了解，但是我认为这个国家没有依靠援助且拥有一个称职的政府。

[–]Eat_the_PathHong Kong 38 指标 6小时前 
“mutually beneficial business”
I wasn't aware taking on huge loans from China to pay Chinese contracts to build bridges that collapse was mutually beneficial.

“互惠互利的业务”
我并没有意识到负担来自中国的巨大债务，去支付那些豆腐渣桥梁的合同是互利互惠的。

[–]kenji25 22 指标 5小时前 
in african opinion it is tho

然而非洲人认为这是互利互惠的。

[–]Erythromycin500 18 指标 5小时前 
Same as what China doing with other Asian nations such as Pakistan Nepal Sri Lanka by building ports etc.

同样，中国也用修港口等等方式和其他亚洲国家（例如：巴基斯坦和斯里兰卡）缔结合同。

[–]ribeye789United States 24 指标 4小时前 
Yup the first comment is delusional. They're incurring unsustainable debt to pay the Chinese to pay the Chinese to build stuff and China will take their natural resources when they default. Simple China wins twice or three times. Or four.

第一个评论真是想当然。中国帮他们修建东西，同时这也导致了他们没有能力偿还中国的债务，当他们违约的时候，中国就会拿走他们的自然资源。中国一举两得。

A Kenyan court ordered a halt of railway construction to review its environmental impact. The Chinese continue to build protected by armed guards.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinas-ugly-exploitation-of-africaand-africans

肯尼亚法院下令停止修铁路，来看这对自然环境的影响。但是中国在武装警卫的保护下还在修建铁路。

[–]Salaried_Shill -2 指标 3小时前 
At least China isn't killing civilians. Somalia Libya Mali ???

至少中国人不会杀害平民。索马里、利比亚、马里呢？？？

[–]slappymcnutface 2 指标 11 分钟前 
I was mugged the other day and had my wallet stolen.
but at least I wasn't assraped and murdered by jeffery dalmer's reanimated corpse ???

某天我被抢劫了，钱包被偷。但是，至少我没被起死回生的杰弗瑞·莱昂纳尔·达莫（美国变态连环杀手，同时也是种族主义者歧视黑人）强奸并谋杀掉？？？

[–]YouShouldBeWriting -1 指标 4小时前 
I wasn't aware taking on huge loans from China to pay Chinese contracts to build bridges that collapse was mutually beneficial.

我并不觉得负担中国的巨大债务去缔结豆腐渣桥梁修建的合同是互利互惠的。

king on huge loans from China in Chinese Yuan to pay Chinese contracts in Chinese Yuan to build bridges that collapse was mutually beneficial.
Fixed it for you

修正的你观点，用人民币去支付来自中国的巨额贷款，用人民币去支付中国修筑豆腐渣桥梁，这才是互利互惠且有益的。

-------------译者：梧桐pasky-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]Rampaging_BunnyUnited States 0 指标 1小时前 
Using Chinese labor shipped in. Won’t even train local contractors except for lowest unskilled positions.
Friend spent 6 yrs in Africa for Chinese company and the shit he said was horrible. They knew it

使用来自中国的劳动力。除了不熟练的最低职位，甚至都不用训练当地承包商。我一个为中国公司在非洲工作了六年的朋友说这很糟糕。他知道内幕。

[–]Salaried_Shill 12 指标 3小时前 
Say what you want about China at least they aren't out there bombing people. Anyways anything would be better than whatever Westerners have been doing for centuries now.

至少中国人不会在那里乱轰炸人民。总之，中国做的事比西方在非洲做了几个世纪的事好多了。

[–]slappymcnutface -2 指标 1小时前 
seriously? we're still conflating "western countries" policy in Africa with what they've done hundreds of years ago?
Yeah I guess Germany today is as bad to Jews as they've been for centuries now.
fucking stupid

当真？我们现在还把“西方国家”在非洲实行的政策与其几百年前做的（罪）事混为一谈？是的，我想如今的德国对待犹太人就像几个世纪前一样很不友好。真是蠢爆了。

[–]Salaried_Shill 10 指标 3小时前 
...yet. Until then there's already countries doing it. And they are the same countries warning Africans about Chinese influence. Lol.

....还没有。再那之前已经有很多国家这样做了。同时他们还在警告非洲中国会带来的影响。哈哈哈。

[–]mr-wienerAustralia 2 指标 1小时前 
No one ever comes to Africa with good intentions ...And it usually ends badly.

不，没有人来非洲是抱有善意的...而且通常都不会有好结果。

[–]mr-wienerAustralia 2 指标 1小时前 
At least they know what they are getting into ...

至少他们知道他们在做什么。

[–]fojiaotu 4 指标 4小时前 
They'll learn.

他们会效仿的。

[–]Kendos-Kenlen 2 指标 1小时前 
Seems like China understands something our countries never did: it’s not by paternalism that Africa - or any other country - will develop it’s with opportunities. Businesses opportunities means money money means better situation in a country and better situation means development at least its how I see it.

看起来中国明白些什么，而我们国家却从不明白这些：对非洲或者其他国家来说——家长式的作风并不能帮他们抓住机遇发展起来。商业机会意味着钱，钱意味着国家情况转好，情况转好意味着发展，至少我是这么看待的。

I just wonder if this money will really benefit to the people or will once again be used by some already rich and influential people that don’t care about anyone but themselves...

我只是很好奇这些钱是否真的会让所有人都受益，还是说又一次被那些已经富有和有影响力并且只在乎自己的人给利用了.......