【 Quora 】：历史上最伟大的文明是哪个?（下） [美国媒体]

What is the greatest civilization in history?

【 Quora 】：历史上最伟大的文明是哪个?（下）

Kind of stupid question. The simple answer is none. The question is heavy with unanswered questions about what ‘civilization,’ greatest,’ and ‘history’ mean. Is any nation or kingdom, whether ancient or modern,every nation had its margins, dissenters and radicals. What does it mean to be great for a nation? Does it mean to vanquish one’s enemies? To spread your culture or religion? To be at the forefront of science and technology? To have excellent GDPs and great health insurance and life expectancies?…and ultimately what’s ‘history’? Is history ever obxtive, final and real? Who writes history, what are their interests and biases? Even the information we get about any culture or nation is muddled and limited.
A similar question would be which is the most successful species on earth? If it’s about the ability to adapt, achieve awareness and manipulate the environment for own benefit, then it’s the humans. But some scientists would tell you that would be some insect species, the cockroach, the earthworm… or certain strains of bacteria and viruses…etc. Just because of the ability of those beings to survive even harsher environments and continue reproducing makes them more perfect in the eyes of many scientists.

愚蠢的问题。简单的答案是没有。关于“文明”、“最伟大”和“历史”的定义，人们还疑问重重。任何一个国家或王国，无论是古代的还是现代的，每个国家都有其边缘、反对者和激进分子。对于一个国家来说，伟大是什么意思?它的意思是消灭敌人吗?是传播你的文化或宗教吗?是站在科技前沿?是有良好的国内生产总值和健康保险和预期寿命吗?……,最终“历史”是什么?历史是客观的、不可更改的，真实的?谁写历史，他们的兴趣和偏见是什么?甚至我们所得到的关于任何文化或国家的信息都是混乱和有限的。
一个类似的问题是地球上最成功的物种是哪一个?如果它是关于适应能力，实现意识和为自身利益操纵环境，那么它就是人类。但是一些科学家会告诉你，会是一些昆虫物种，蟑螂，蚯蚓，或者某些细菌和病毒的变种等等。正是因为这些生物能够在更严酷的环境下生存，并继续繁衍后代，使得它们在许多科学家眼中更加完美。

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The Australian Aboriginal
They are the oldest culture on the planet by far.
They have a system of communication that only they can relate to. It is verbal, symbolic and intuitional.
They may seem undeveloped by western standards but their set of rules and traditions have evolved into a population that has learnt to live with the land.
Their beliefs and traditions have relevance to their daily lives and are passed down by storytellers and learning from others
They only take what they need to survive.
They have more languages (some now extinct) than all of Europe.
I could add more but am going to be judged by Modern views of “civilization” rather than seeing them as civilized people. There are only a few cultures left that can honestly say they have done relatively no harm to the environment and these people are probably top of the list.
Our western ideas and so called principles have done more damage to these people than they have done to each other in 40,000 years.

澳大利亚土着居民
它们是迄今为止地球上最古老的文化。
他们有一个只有他们才能懂的交流系统。它是用语言的，符号的和直觉的。
在西方国家的标准似乎是不发达的，但他们的规则和传统是一个学会与土地共存的群体。

他们的信仰和传统与他们的日常生活息息相关，并通过讲故事的人和向别人学习传递下去。
他们只拿他们需要的去生存。
他们有比欧洲所有国家更多的语言(尽管有些已经灭绝)。
我可以说更多，但我将被以现代的“文明”观点来评判，你们没有把他们看作是文明的人。尽管只留下少数的文化，但可以诚实地说，他们对环境没有造成任何伤害，这些人可能是最伟大的文明。
我们的西方思想和所谓的原则对这些人造成的伤害比他们在4万年间对彼此造成的伤害还要大。

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After all, China went through turmoil and eventually the communist takeover. It is nothing like its former glory or government system. The current leaders should not be allowed to inherit the glory of its prior centuries because they threw that glory away. The Brits were a monarchy when America was founded, and France overthrew its monarchy the same year of our Constitution (1789), but has since churned and rechurned itself into socialism. The Russians were a monarchy in the late 1800’s and since became part of the USSR, later broken apart into its original countries.
There is no government on the planet that has outlived the United States of America. It is the oldest organized government in existence, and apart from feeding the world, is the richest and most prosperous nation the world has ever seen. Not Great Britain, not China, not India, Japan or any middle-eastern country has ever generated the wealth America has, or made more millionaires than America has, or exported more food and humanitarian aid (said aid often at the expense of the rescuers).
This is not an arrogant boast, but the plain-straight fact as exhibited in the country’s output, humanitarian aid across the globe, and the tech innovations other countries can only copy or miniaturize.
While one could argue America has too many faults to qualify for such an hono. When it comes to societal ills - America’s got nothin’ on the third world and existing superpowers in how criminally barbaric they treat their citizens. Comparatively speaking, our justice system is better, economics are better, representation is better, and opportunity is stratospheric, among many other things that rarely appear side-by-side - if at all - in other countries.

毕竟，中国经历了动荡，最终被共产党接管。它与昔日的荣耀或政府体系完全不同。现在的中国不会被允许继承其前几个世纪的荣耀，因为他们把荣耀丢掉了。当美国成立时，英国人还是一个君主制国家，而法国在宪法(1789年)的同一年推翻了君主制，但自那以后，它就在不断地制造社会主义。俄国人在19世纪晚期是一个君主政体，后来成为苏联的一部分，后来分裂为原来的那些国家。
在这个星球上，没有一个政府比美利坚合众国更长寿。它是现存的最古老的有组织的政府，除了养活世界之外，它是世界上最富裕、最繁荣的国家。英国，中国，印度、日本或任何一个中东国家都不能创造出美国现在拥有的财富，或者创造比美国更多的百万富翁，或者输出更多的粮食和人道主义援助(这些援助经常以牺牲救援者为代价)。

这不是傲慢自大的吹嘘，而是在国家的产出、全球人道主义援助以及技术创新上（其他国家只能复制或缩小）的直白事实。
尽管有人可能会说，美国有太多的缺陷，不能胜任最伟大文明这个荣誉。当面对社会弊病时，美国在第三世界无所作为，当其它国家对他们的公民很野蛮时，它没有展示出超级大国的力量。相对而言，我们的司法系统更好，经济更好，代表更好，机会虽然是有阶级的，但很少有其它国家发生的事情在这里发生。

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In my mind, there are only two nominees: Ancient Greece and China.
Ancient Greek culture heavily influenced the Ancient Rome, which once ruled most of Europe for a long time (none other civilization has done that yet). There was a person named Socrates, who is the teacher of Plato who is the teacher of Aristotle. Socrates and Plato are both very important to the development of philosophy in the western world. Aristotle, on the other hand, contributed his life to the exploration of the nature. Bounded by the poor development of math, most of his “discovery” and study are wrong. Yet his studies were respected by the western world for more than 1000 years. Roman Catholic Church insisted that Earth is the center of the universe for a very very long time. And that was first stated by Aristotle and those who followed his path. Also Ancient Greece is where systematic democracy was born. Athens once used this method to rule its citizens. Guess what, it is the core value of western society right now.
China, needless to say, is the other greatest civilization in human history. It is one of the earliest civilization, along with Mesopotamia, Ancient Greece, and Ancient Egypt. Even though China has been invaded and ruled by many other people, Chinese culture has never been completely eliminated from history. And it is still here and it has become one of the strongest country in the world.



在我看来，只有两个可以被提名:古希腊和中国。
古希腊文化对古罗马的影响很大，罗马曾经统治了欧洲大部分地区(至今还没有其他文明做到这一点)。有一个叫苏格拉底的人，他是柏拉图的老师，柏拉图是亚里士多德的老师。苏格拉底和柏拉图对于西方哲学的发展都是非常重要的。另一方面，亚里士多德为探索自然贡献了自己的生命。尽管由于数学发展不佳，他的大部分“发现”和研究都是错误的。但是他的研究在西方世界得到了1000多年的尊重。罗马天主教会坚持认为地球是宇宙的中心很长一段时间。这是亚里士多德和那些遵循他的道路的人首先提出的。古希腊也是系统民主诞生的地方。雅典曾经用这种方法来统治它的公民。你猜怎么着，它现在是西方社会的核心价值。
不用说，中国是人类历史上最伟大的文明。也是最早的文明之一，还有美索不达米亚、古希腊和古埃及。尽管中国已经被许多外族侵略和统治，但中国文化从未被历史淘汰。它仍然在这里，它现在已经成为世界上最强大的国家之一。

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Philosophical/Intellectual/Religious - Few can even begin to rival the ancient Greeks, whom we may credit for everything from Plato to early Christian Patriarchs.  That said, the philosophical traditions of India and China are vital in that they enlightened a very different set of paths.  That said, the works of the Greeks were read in the courts of their greatest enemies (the Persians), and today the figure of Jesus Christ looms larger than statues of Confucius or Mencius across much of the world.
Military - No group established a bigger empire in history than the Mongols, with a rather substantial administration to go with it.  That said, they did a horrid job of incorporating culture.  When it comes to spreading culture at the point of a sword, the Romans did 'good' work.  As for sheer reach, no one can deny the Americans - the ability to strike every capital on the globe with an airstrike in mere hours is something Genghis could only have dreamed of.
Cuisine - No doubt can be made that the French have dominated haute cuisine for many centuries, but stay tuned - Thailand and Japan have culinary traditions to rival the best in Paris, and Italy has never liked playing second fiddle to their Gallic cousins.  That said, if a country's real cuisine is not what is in its restaurants but in its homes, Italy has long since championed  although the American South has a real claim - there is a KFC 100 meters from the Pyramids, after all...
Knowledge Amassed - No civilization in history has managed to control as much information as our current generation has at its fingertips.  That said, the Abbasid Caliphate took the best knowledge from China, India, Africa, Greece, and the West and synthesized it.
Human Rights - Forget our own feeble attempts with the UN.  Ancient Persia had a complex system of human rights that protected life, property, local aristocrats, and religious freedom.  
Civil Engineering - Too many to mention, but especially Medi Europe, China, and Egypt.  
Culture - I saved the hardest for last.  How can one compare Romance of the Three Kingdoms to the Mona Lisa?  Fact is, you can't.  Sadly, it seems that the more repressive the society, the greater the cultural output.  The Iliad and Odyssey came from rough and tumble Greece, the Qur'an (if you believe that it is not divinely inspired, otherwise no offense meant) came from a land stricken with injustice, the Italian Renaissance was during a time of frequent wars in Italy, and even Elvis, the Beatles, and Rock and Roll come from the very real threat of nuclear destruction.

哲学/知识/宗教-几乎没有人能与古希腊人匹敌，它们有着从柏拉图到早期基督教的创始人。也就是说，印度和中国的哲学传统至关重要，因为它们启发了一组截然不同的道路。即便如此，希腊人的作品却是在他们最大的敌人(波斯人)的宫廷里被读到的，而今天，耶稣基督的形象比世界上许多地方的孔子或孟子的雕像更突出。
在历史上，没有哪个国家能比蒙古人建立起一个更大的帝国，而且还有很多小国附属。也就是说，他们在融合文化方面做得很糟糕。当谈到用武力传播文化时，罗马人做了“好”的工作。至于绝对的影响力，没有人能否认美国人——可以在几个小时内用空袭打击世界上任何一个首都的能力，这是成吉思汗梦寐以求的东西。
烹饪——毫无疑问，法国人已经统治了许多个世纪的高级美食，而且现在也是——泰国和日本的传统烹饪可以与巴黎的顶级美食相媲美，但意大利从不甘于落后高卢表兄弟当第二。而且说，如果一个国家真正的烹饪不是在餐馆里，而是在它的家庭里，那么意大利早就是冠军了。但美国也可以说自己是冠军——毕竟，离金字塔100米的地方都有一家肯德基店。

知识积累——历史上没有一个文明能够像我们现在这代人这样可以唾手可得那么多的信息。即便如此，阿拔斯王朝从中国、印度、非洲、希腊和西方国家获得了最好的知识，并综合了它。
人权——让我们忘记联合国的软弱吧。古代波斯有一个复杂的人权体系，可以保护生命、财产、地方贵族和宗教自由。

土木工程——有太多要提及的，特别是中世纪的欧洲、中国和埃及。
文化-我把最难的留到最后。一个人怎么能把《三国演义》与《蒙娜丽莎》进行比较呢?事实是,你比较不了。可悲的是，社会越压抑，文化产出就越高。《伊利亚特》和《奥德赛》来自于希腊乱作一团，《古兰经》(如果你认为它不是来自神圣，没有冒犯的意思)来自于土地的不公，意大利文艺复兴来自于意大利频繁的战争时期，甚至猫王，甲壳虫乐队和摇滚来自非常现实的核毁灭威胁。

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The greatest civilization is the one that had the smallest percentage of people living in poverty and with the least oppression. I’m not quite certain when or who that civilization was, but China and Ancient Rome are certainly not contenders. The greatness of a civilization should not be measured by how much wealth the leaders amassed at everyone else’s expense, or how long their oppressive dynasties lasted, or even what was invented or built during their reign. Of course a great civilization would do all those things, but the greatest civilization in history will most certainly be marked by the success of all it’s civilians. Civilizations like China and Ancient Rome had wide spread inequality, and way too much poverty and human rights violations for consideration as the greatest in history.
Besides, our current civilization since the second world war is unquestionably the greatest. We have built like none other and our technology has triggered accelerated achievement and enabled a global economy that has greatly reduced the number of people living in poverty in the world as well as the degree of that poverty.

最伟大的文明应该是那些有着最少生活在贫困和压迫人群的文明。我不太确定这个文明是在什么时候是谁，但中国和古罗马肯定不是这个的竞争者。一个文明的伟大之处不应该以领导人聚敛财富的多少来衡量，也不应以他们的专制统治持续了多久来衡量，也不应该以他们统治期间发明或建造的多少东西来衡量。当然，一个伟大的文明会做所有这些事情，但是历史上最伟大的文明是应该被它的平民认为是成功的。在考虑历史上最伟大的文明过程中，像中国或古罗马这样的文明是有着广泛的不平等，也有太多的贫穷和侵犯人权的行为。
此外，自第二次世界大战以来，我们目前的文明，无疑是最伟大的。我们没有像它们那样，我们的技术正在加速完成很多成就，而且全球化经济正在大大减少世界上的贫困人口数量和贫困程度。

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Look around you, you live him.
A tablet or something like what you are looking at now would have been considered as a miracle in any previous culture. There are many aspects that characterize a culture as big. The criteria change depending on the time period, access to human resources and the circumstances. All cultures, be they small or great, have contributed over time, and led to what we call today modern technological culture. 

看看你的周围，你就生活在旁边。
在以前的任何文化中，平板电脑或类似的东西都会被认为是一个奇迹。现在的科技在很多方面可以被描述为一种文化。文化标准的变化取决于时间、人和环境。所有的文化，无论是小的还是伟大的，都是会随着时间的推移而产生的，并变成了我们今天所说的现代科技文化。

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What do you call a distinct civilization which lasted for about 5,000 years till now? A civilization so advanced that its neighbors copied its ways and despite changes still stayed their way?
That would be China.
Why?
Advanced and distinct architecture. So advanced in their own eras that its neighboring countries copied their designs in making magnificent temples and palaces that still stand strong today.
Weaponry and warfare.
They invented the worlds first crossbow and most significantly the worlds first gunpowder weapons in the form of cannons and fire lances. They introduced the latter to the rest of the world and with that reshaped the world into what we are now today.
They also produced the most famed and most influential military manual of all time, The Art of War, written over 2500 years ago. It has been widely used in the modern times by a number of generals all over the world across modern history.
Ideology and creed.
At the top was the all-renowned Confucius, the man who created a philosophy that shaped and guided the governments and societies of his nation and the Orient for thousands of years until now.
Even today the albeit-communist government of China still reeks of Confucianist aspects, such as sheer intolerance of governmental errands and corruption, excellence in every aspect, unerring and unflinching obedience to authority, securing food for the nation and the people, and others.
Language and literature
Not much has changed with the Chinese language during the last 4,000 years of China’s existence as a civilization and 2,000 years as a nation. Only the way of writing and a few pronunciations were changed. It is still spoken by its people today, and is in fact the oldest language to belong into the official languages of the United Nations.
It was unlike the language of the ancients of the world that, except Hebrew, failed to survive up to the present day.
Other civilizations today, though also ancient in origin, preferred to communicate in other languages for fancy, or if communicating in their own language, do it in the alphabet instead of their own system of writing (which pisses me off every time btw). If you know what I mean, and what nation(s) I mean, but no offense…
In terms of literature, scholars never really had the problem of deciphering ancient historical texts of their own language, even it they’re already thousands of years old. Not to mention they still have millions of books that originated from far history and are still readable even by younger Chinese scholars today.
Compare that to other works of literature which's language still belonged to the ancients and scholars have a hard time deciphering them, even today.
Political power
China has been a regional and a global power for 2,000 years since its first empire in the Han Dynasty. Although it was conquered just twice by barbarians and bullied by undesirables, it still maintained itself as a power to be reckoned with. In fact, it is now a global superpower, influencing other nations, both weak and powerful, distant and neighboring, with its power, like it always did in the ages past.
There are still more factors why China is the greatest civilization to ever exist in history. Their already millennia-old culture still remains strong and still widely in use and were even copied and cherished by others. They still have cities more than three thousand years old, like Beijing and Luoyang, that are still inhabited by people who still spoke that language of their ancestors thousands of years ago, and are still in fact flourishing. They invented things like compass, guns, hydraulic irrigation pumps, printers, abacus and others countless generations ago that are still in great use today. They created infrastructures like the Grand Canal and the Great Wall that are still of use today. Even conquering barbarians adapted their ways and language knowing that they need a civilization to join and survive in this world in a peaceful way.

一个持续了大约5000年的独特文明叫什么名字?是哪个文明如此先进，以至于它的邻居们原封不动的照抄了它？
答案是中国。
为什么?
先进独特的建筑。因此，在他们自己的时代，他们的邻国复制了他们的设计，建造了宏伟的庙宇和宫殿，而这些宫殿至今仍屹立不倒。

武器和战争。
他们发明了世界上第一个弩，最重要的是发明了世界上最早的火药武器，以大炮和火枪的形式。他们向世界其他国家介绍了这些，并将这个世界改造成为今天的样子。
他们还制作了有史以来最着名、最具影响力的军事手册——《孙子兵法》，这是2500多年前的作品。在现代历史上，它被世界各地的许多将军广泛使用。

意识形态和教义。
站在顶端的是着名的孔子，他创造了一种哲学，在几千年的时间里都在塑造和引导着东方国家的政府社会。
即使在今天，中国的共产主义政府仍然在散发着儒家思想的气息，如严格于政府办事和绝对不容忍腐败、各方面的卓越表现、无偏差的坚定的服从于权威、为国家和人民争取食物，以及其他。

语言和文学
汉语，在中国这个4000年的文明和2000年的国家中，并没有多少改变。只有写作和一些发音的方式发生了变化。它至今仍由其人民使用。这实际上是联合国正式语言中的最古老的语言。
它不像世界上其它古代语言，除了希伯来语，都没有生存到今天。
今天的其他文明，虽然也起源于古代，但更喜欢用其他语言交流，或者还用自己的语言，但是用字母代替他们自己的书写体系(这每次都让我很生气)。如果你知道我的意思，指的是哪些国家，但我无意冒犯……
在文学方面，中国学者们从未真正有过破解古历史文献的问题，即便他们有几千年的历史了。更不用说他们还有数以百万计的历史书籍，那些即使是中国的年轻学者也能读懂。
与其他国家的文学作品相比，那些文学语言仍属于古人，学者们甚至在今天都很难破译它们。

政治和权力
自汉代第一个帝国以来，中国已经是地区和全球力量2000多年了。虽然它被野蛮人占领了两次，被不良分子所欺凌，但它仍然被认为是一种不可忽视的力量。事实上，它现在是一个全球超级大国，影响着其他国家，无论是弱小的，强大的，遥远的，还是邻国的，都受它的力量影响，就像过去一样。
中国是历史上最伟大的文明，还有更多的原因。他们千年的文化至今仍然很强大，仍在被广泛使用，甚至被其他国家复制和珍惜。他们仍然有超过三千年的城市，像北京和洛阳，那里仍然居住着还在说几千年前他们祖先语言的人，而且依然繁荣。他们发明了指南针、火器、水力机械、印刷技术、算盘等发明，至今仍在使用。他们建造了像今天仍在使用的大运河和长城这样的基础设施。即使是来征服的野蛮人，他们也适应了中国的方式和语言，因为他们知道他们需要加入一种文明，然后和平的生活在这个世界上。