中国能复制美国的海军陆战队吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：sunjingjun1994-审核者：sunjingjun1994------------



Much has been reported about the recent structural reforms undertaken by China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA)—the end goal being a leaner and meaner military force, capable of undertaking a broad spectrum of missions under modern, high-tech conditions. Part of this drive towards a “new-age” PLA has been efforts to modernize the PLA Marine Corps (PLAMC), which notably carried out its latest winter training in the Gobi Desert, in Xinjiang.

关于中国人民解放军最近正在进行的结构改革的大量报道，——其最终目标是成为一支更加精简明快的军事力量，有能力在现代的、高科技的大环境下执行广泛的任务。部分这些改革力量对新时代的人民解放军产生了影响使人民解放军海军陆战队现代化，特别是它最近正在新疆的戈壁沙漠进行冬季训练。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Reported by Chinese sources as a combined-arms, live-firing war game involving over ten different PLAMC branches, this exercise featured state-of-the-art equipment, as observed in official photos released by Chinese media. The exercise was designed to enhance the PLAMC’s ability to operate in a real war situation, under day and night conditions. Besides conventional combat maneuvers against “Blue Force” adversaries, the exercise also included counterterrorism training.   To be certain, these PLAMC winter maneuvers are just one of several such training drills conducted under various climatic conditions. One such instance is Exercise Jungle, whose 2015 iteration was staged in the tropical southwestern province of Yunnan. The varied PLAMC training syllabus can be deemed a natural expansion of its capabilities and missions, considering that it is traditionally tasked to undertake operations against Taiwan in particular.

根据中国信息资源报道，中国人民解放军海军陆战队作为一支联合兵种，实弹射击战争涉及超过十支不同的战队分支，根据中国媒体发布的官方照片观察，此次演习是以先进的军事设备为主要特征。这次演习的开展在于提高人民解放军海军陆战队在实战情况中，在日以继夜作战的条件下的应对能力。除了传统的实战演习作为对抗蓝军的对手，这次训练也包括了反恐训练。确切的来说，这些人民解放军的冬季演习是在多种不同环境下演习的一种。其中就包括了丛林演习，2015年该演习放在了酷热的云南。解放军陆战队多变的训练内容可以看成其能力和任务的自然扩展，因为其传统任务主要是针对台湾。

-------------译者：圣火狼烟-审核者：纳德------------

But there is more to it than that. In recent years the PLAMC is not merely maintaining its readiness to mount an amphibious invasion across the Taiwan Strait (or conduct other operations in the context of the East and South China Sea disputes). Rather, it is bulking up in order to give the Chinese political leadership another flexible tool for responding to contingencies not just within China’s immediate East Asian region, but also beyond.

但是，事情还远不止于此。近几年来，解放军海军陆战队并不仅仅保持了水陆两栖入侵台湾海峡的准备（或者应对与东海和南海冲突），还为给中国政治领导应对东亚敏感地区的突发事件提供灵活的工具而做了扩张


-------------译者：Sinai~希奈-审核者：Sinai~希奈------------

Harry Huntington • a day ago
Why would China want to? The USMC is a second rate light infantry force that is culturally incapable of dealing with the modern world. The USMC has not conducted a successful amphibious assault since WWII. In WWII the USMC amphibious record was inferior to that of the Army. The intellectual failure of the Marine way of war was illustrated at places like Tarawa. No sensible nation has copied the US Marine Corps. The US would be wise to end the Marines. An Army amphibious corps (much like the highly successful Army airborne corps) could handle sea borne stuff.

为什么中国会想复制美国的海军陆战队？美国海军陆战队是一支在文化意义上不能胜任解决现代世界事物的第二等的轻装兵团军种。美国海军陆战队从二战以来已无法指挥一次成功的两栖袭击。在第二次世界大战，美国海军陆战队两栖记录在全军中是差劲的。海军陆战队的战争思路理智上的失误已经在一些地方举例说明到，比如塔拉瓦战役。没有一个明智的国家会复制美国式的海军陆战队。美国海军陆战队的结束将是明智的。一支两栖部队（更多地像非常成功的空降部队）才能解决海上事物。

cherrysan • 3 days ago
"One must also consider that the next time a local ethnic Chinese populace in Southeast Asia gets roughed up, as has happened before (in Indonesia in the late 1990s, and possibly in Malaysia following a recent racial uproar), the PLA might not just watch from a distance. A Chinese ARG/ESG, primed for overseas “gunboat diplomacy” on short notice, is an intimidating prospect."
China will never use the diaspora kinship as an excuse to invade a sovereign country. Many of these diasporas have no connection with China, even despise China,wrongly thinking they are superior.
On the other hand, India is a more dangerous country. She almost invade Mauritius using the diaspora excuse. So watch out Australia and ASEAN countries with plenty of Indians!
India is an extremely THUGGISH country as is evidenced by last year cross border raid into Myanmar.
http://thediplomat.com/2015/08...

下一次东南亚再次发生排华事件时，比如之前发生的（在20世纪90年代中后期的印度尼西亚，以及马来西亚最近发生的种族骚乱），中国人民解放军可能不仅仅在远处看着。主要任务为海外“舰炮外交”的中国两栖戒备大队和远征攻击大队马上可以对类似的种族骚乱作出回应，想想都觉得可怕。
中国从来不会以海外游离华裔同胞亲属关系作为一个借口去入侵一个独立主权国家。许多流散华裔同胞一直没有与中国取得联系，甚至轻视中国，错误地认为他们是优越的。
在另一方面，印度是一个更危险的国家。她总是以流散印裔为理由入侵毛里求斯。所以，澳洲和东盟国家要注意了，这些国家有很多印度人！
印度是一个极其残暴的国家，去年越境突袭缅甸就可以看出这一点。

 -------------译者：Sinai~希奈-审核者：Sinai~希奈------------

Walter Tseng  cherrysan • 3 days ago
Fully agree with you. I once read some 30 years ago(?) that India threatened to send in troops into Fiji when the Indian diaspora there got short-shrift.

 充分同意你的观点。我30年前曾阅读过一些，当印裔人在当地受到冷遇时，印度威胁要向斐济派遣军队。
 
DON HUANG  cherrysan • 3 days ago
India, with a population of 1,200 billion people, seriously believes that she is the anointed regional super power in the Indian sub-continent which gives her the rights to interfere in their neighbors’ internal affairs. Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Maldives, Bangladesh and Myanmar are all wary of India’s Big Boy mentality. Pakistan has serious unresolved territorial dispute with India over Muslim Kashmir. China, too, has territorial disputes with India; these protagonists are not likely to settle their territorial disputes anytime soon.

印度，一个人口达12亿的国家，认真地相信她是南亚次大陆受膏（宗教仪式）地区的强权，这给于她权利去干涉她的邻居的内部事务。尼泊尔、斯里兰卡、不丹、马尔代夫和孟加拉国全都恐惧印度的大男孩心态。巴基斯坦在穆斯林克什米尔和印度有严重的领土争端。中国，跟印度也有领土争端；这些当事国不太可能在近期内解决领土争端。

-------------译者：clear-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

cherrysan  DON HUANG • 3 days ago
India is actually a pariah nation run buy a bunch of Elites. I think all over the world in many countries, they have this elite group about 5% with money, connections, religious and politics, business, they make the rules while the rest of the population suffer. We see this in US, China, Japan, Philippines, Malaysia, India which I suspect is the Brahmin class with religious connections and wealthy.
So the majority of Indians 95% are Victims of this 5%. RSS, BJP Modi's party if we analyse deeper have this characteristics. They see themselves as Hindu Religion Crusaders much like Christianity crusaders and Islamists who colonized India for centuries. These Hindu nationalists think it is their turn to colonized their neighborhood and they have swallow all the neighboring states since independence.
Now the world should Continually Be Reminded India is The Mother Of All Thieves and will try to take over some ASEAN country, even establish an enclave like Goa in Australia a century from now under 'diaspora' excuse. These Indian monkeys have no business behaving like the Indian Ocean belongs to them.
There is one interesting article I saw in Newsweek which May explain why they are so jittery. There is a Nuclear Enrichment Facility there which India want to prevent the world from learning and Obama give India a pass last Jan. Rotten Obama going to put Asia into flames!
http://www.newsweek.com/india-...

印度实际上是一个由一群精英统治的贱民国家。我想这世界上的许多国家，它们都是由5%的精英集团控制着金钱，关系，宗教信仰和政治以及商业，他们制定规则，其他剩下的人们则要承受这些规则。我们可以看到在美国，中国，日本，菲律宾，马来西亚，印度的精英应该是拥有宗教联系和财富的婆罗门种姓。
所以说大多数印度人（95%）是这些5%的受害者。如果我们深入分析一下右翼党，莫迪的印度教国族主义的政党就会发现这些特点。他们视自己为印度教十字军，和基督教十字军和伊斯兰教徒有点像，后者们殖民了印度几个世纪。这些印度教国家主义者们想是时候轮到他们殖民他们的邻居，并且他们从独立开始起就吞并所有邻国的土地。
现在世界应当继续牢记印度是所有小偷之母，它会试图接管一些东盟国家，甚至以”移民社群“的理由建立起领土之内的领土，如澳大利亚的果阿社群。这些印度猴们的行为体现印度洋属于他们的一样。
在新闻周刊上看过一篇有趣的文章可能可以解释为何他们如此紧张不安。印度试图不让世界知道的核浓缩设施存在着，并且奥巴马上年1月点头同意了。恶毒的奥黑想把亚洲架在火上烤！http://www.newsweek.com/india-...（网站来源）

 -------------译者：z8975623-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

DON HUANG  cherrysan • 2 days ago
India is a big country relative to the other countries in the subcontinent and the geo-political instinct / postures is to behave like a Big Brother in the region. I can understand and accept India’s political idiosyncrasies as long as she confines her hegemony in the Indian subcontinent; any military / political pivot outside her ‘sphere of influences’ would tantamount to aggressive threat to countries like South East Asia, Australia and China.
 
在印度次大陆上，印度相对于其它国家来说是一个大国，所以其地缘政治本能/姿态是在此地区扮演大哥哥的角色。我可以理解并且接受印度的政治特性，只要印度她在印度次大陆上遏制自己的霸权主义思想；如果印度将自己的政治军事轴心转移到自己的“势力范围”之外，那就相当于对东南亚，澳洲和中国造成了侵略性的威胁。
 
Fatfreddy • 2 days ago
Traditionally the Chinese don't consider the overseas Chinese as their own and ironically used to sneer at them. Thats why occasional massacres in Indonesia got no press. The massacres of Chinese in Philippines got no response either despite appeals for intervention. But Western Press is trying hard to conjure up the evil Chinese hegemony so as to get the South East Asian countries to think about allying with the US to defend themselves from these potential "threats". Ironically they might just do that because of being unable to acknowledge their past guilt. Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia for example have made any reference to racial incidents that included massacres of Chinese through the centuries. Ironically again, China might take up this bait as an excuse to utilise their newfound military strength although its very much against history.

传统上来说，中国人并不把海外华人当作是他们自己人，而且过去还经常对他们冷嘲热讽。这就是为什么在印度尼西亚时不时对华人的大屠杀并没有受到什么压力。中国对菲律宾的华人大屠杀也没有什么回应，即使菲律宾华人呼吁中国进行干预。但是欧美的媒体新闻是多么不遗余力地渲染邪恶中国霸权主义啊，然后让东南亚国家考虑和美国结盟以堤防这些潜在的“威胁”。讽刺的是，这些国家这么做的原因可能是因为他们无法承认他们过去所犯下的罪行。举个例子，印度尼西亚，菲律宾，马来西亚，有出过任何有关于贯穿了几个世纪对华人的种族屠杀事件的文献书籍吗？再次讽刺的是，中国或许会利用这个钓饵作为借口来使用其新生成的军力，尽管这不符合中国的一贯做法。（我猜此作者是老一辈华裔的后代）

-------------译者：z8975623-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

castlerock58 • 2 days ago
They won't even have to translate "gung ho".
 
他们甚至不需要翻译“gung ho”。（gung ho，此英文来自中文，意思为“齐心协力”，最早出现在美国海军陆战队里）
 
TDog • 3 days ago
A pretty cool article. The author certainly put a lot of thought into it and presented a very rational, reasonable analysis of what a more capable PLAMC means for not only China, but also for various regions of the world. I think, however, that the PLA Marine Corps would probably be more active in Africa and the Middle East than South Asia or the Mediterranean. Most of China's business activities are centered around the former rather than the latter and the need to maintain a presence in the IOR can be done easily and more cheaply by regular naval patrols.
Great article, though.
 
一篇十分精彩的文章。作者一定对此思考了很久并且作出了一个十分理性，合理的关于中国人民解放军海军陆战队战斗力的加强对世界各个地区、不仅是对中国本国的意义的分析。然而，我想，中国人民解放军海军陆战队或许会相较于南亚或地中海地区而在非洲和中东更加活跃。中国大多数的生意活动都是在非洲和中东展开，而不是南亚或地中海地区，而且通过常态化的海军巡逻，中国在环印度洋保持自身存在感的需求也能够更容易满足。
 
Jennifer Katona • 3 days ago
Let's hope the Chinese do it right and do not allow homosexuals and women into their corps.
 
让我们祈祷中国人把这件事做好吧而且不要允许同性恋者和女人进入他们的海军陆战队。
 
hhour  Jennifer Katona • 3 days ago
USMC is not an elite force as a whole ( about 200,000 of them elite?). According to the DoD, the dropout rate at the boot camp is only 11.7%. It means almost anybody can be a U.S. marine. Only such marine units as MARSOC, Force Recon , etc are considered elite

（回LS）美国海军陆战队整体上而言并不是一个精英部队（难道有大约20万的精英这么多？）根据美国国防部的数据，海军新兵训练营的淘汰率只有11.7%，这意味着几乎所有人都可以成为美国海军陆战队。只有类似像特种部队，美军陆战队强侦连这样的海军陆战队才能称为精英。

-------------译者：z8975623-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Anthony Blackburn  hhour • 2 days ago
They're considered elite relative to the other armed forces. The dropout rate is low due to the nature of the training. You don't just washout and go home, you get recycled. If they allowed people to just quit, the dropout rate would skyrocket.
With that said, boot isn't the hard part unless you end up in wing or fssg. It's nothing compared to MarDiv (where the combat units are). If anything, boot doesn't do enough to prepare you for the 6-10 mile "fun" runs, 8 mile force marches, and 20+ mile humps with full loadouts.
 
（回LS）美国海军陆战队他们之所以被称为精英是相较于其它武装部队而言的。而淘汰率之所以低是因为其训练的性质。你不必只因淘汰而打包回家，而是得到循环训练。如果他们允许那些新兵就这样被淘汰，那么淘汰率将会一飞冲天。
说了这么多，除非你加入了空军（？）或部队勤务支援大队 ，否则新兵训练营的培训并不是最艰难的部分。和陆战师比起来真是微不足道。新兵训练营并没有让你准备好面对：6-10英里的“欢乐”跑，8英里的强行军（force marches），以及20多英里全副武装的急行军（20 mile humps with full loadouts）的训练。
 
hhour  Anthony Blackburn • 2 days ago
I don't think the usmc is any more elite than the other branches. Yes, your MARSOC and Force Recon are elite. The 82nd Airborne infantry paratroopers also do a lot of forced march with full loads also run everyday. The physical training is utmost important to the paratroopers because they have to be ready to jump into anywhere in the world within 18 hours of notification and be able to carry everything on their backs after hitting the drop zone. Also many of the 82nd Airborne infantry guys have a lot of specialized training such as very tough Ranger, Pathfinder, air assault, long range recon, survival, jungle and many more.

（回LS）我并不认为美国海军陆战队比之其它部队有哪些出彩的地方。是的，你的美军陆战队特种部队以及美军陆战队强侦连的确是精英。第82美军空降步兵团的空降兵也同样做了很多全副武装急行军的训练，也同样每天都跑步。体能训练对于空降兵而言是极为重要的，因为他们必须在经过通知后的18小时之内准备好空降在世界上的任何一个地方，而且在落在空降区域后有能力携带任何他们背包上的东西。而且许多第82美军空降步兵团的汉子们还有做大量的专业训练，诸如什么十分艰难的游骑兵训练，探路训练，空袭训练，远程侦查训练，生存训练，丛林战斗训练，还有很多。

-------------译者：z8975623-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Anthony Blackburn  hhour • 2 days ago
Sure they are. The reason behind the "elite" descriptor for the Marines is actually due to how the Marines operates. Semper Gumby, always flexible. Unlike other branches, the Marines has this habit of forming these things called expeditionary units. These tend to be specialized units that either perform very specialized tasks or are designed to be a 'one unit army' of sorts. To accomplish this, they constantly put Marines through various forms of combat training. One week you'll be doing advanced water survival, the next you'll be doing infiltration, the next detainment and interrogation training. It just depends on the potential missions (example, I went through NBC Defense school, SLAM, etc. The result was getting attached to the CBIRF under 4th MEB, which was a fast reaction NBC anti-terrorism team, in other words, we stopped bad guys with chemical bombs and operated on the battlefield if they dropped them, fortunately, they didn't, so all we did was train).
What this means is that sure, your training could be limited to basic weapons and MCMAP, which is nothing special, or you could have enough training and experience to put Rambo to shame. Since we don't have badges and certificates for everything, there really isn't a way to tell.
What I will say is that you're far less likely to find a Marine with advanced and specialized training outside of MarDIv. For that reason, there's actually a divide within the Corps that's probably bigger than the divide between Rangers and the regular Army.

（回LS）那些空降兵你说的没错。“精英”，这个描述美国海军陆战队的词，之所以这样描述它，实际上是由于美国海军陆战队是如何运转的。Semper Gumby，意思是：随机应变。不像其它部队，美国海军陆战队拥有组建为远征部队这些“随机应变”的传统。而这些传统使得美国海军陆战队变成一个特殊的部队，不管是执行特殊任务抑或是被用来组建为一个系统军队里面的其中一支部队。为了让美国海军陆战队实现这些功能，美国不断地将海军陆战队置于各式各类的战斗训练。某一周你会在进行先进的水中生存训练，而下一周你将会进行渗透训练，而下下周又会进行羁押以及审讯训练。而这些训练仅仅是取决于潜在的任务类型（举个例子，我接受过核生化三防教育和SLAM等等。结果就是进入了第四远征旅的化学生物事故应变部队，这是一支快速反应的核生化反恐部队），换句话说，我们是阻止坏人放置化学定时炸弹，如果已经安置了，就负责解除定时炸弹，幸运的是，并没有发生此类事件，所以我们所做的全是训练。）
我上面所说的呢，意思是，你说的那些空降兵训练有可能只会局限于使用基本武器以及海军陆战队格斗术（MCMAP），这很正常；或者你可能经受了足够多的训练和经历，连Rambo（第一滴血的男主角）都大呼不可敌。但是由于在训练上没有提供徽章或证书，所有真的很难说谁是精英。
我要说的是，在训练上，陆战队其他部门和陆战师完全没法比。正出于此，陆战队内部的各个部分的实力是存在差别的，这样的差距可能比突击队与常规部队之间的差距还要大。