我在中国工作，为什么受过高等教育的中国人如此轻蔑和蔑视俄罗斯？ [美国媒体]

I work in China. Why are highly educated Chinese so contemptuous and dismissive of Russia?

我在中国工作，为什么受过高等教育的中国人如此轻蔑和蔑视俄罗斯？

Pablo Djankowicz Ruizinowitz, Have lived in China and am interested in its history

帕布罗 · 詹科维奇 · 鲁伊兹诺维茨，在中国生活过，我对中国的历史很感兴趣

Highly educated Chinese are contemptuous and dismissive of Russia because Russia suffered a fate that China was very, very afraid of suffering—total collapse and humiliation. (Since the Chinese had already suffered this fate in the 1800s and early 1900s and they don’t want to go back to those bad times again.)
This happened when the Soviet Union became weak in comparison to the U.S. in the 1980s, and then reformed radically under Mikhail Gorbachev under perestroika and glasnost after 1985. Then Russia totally fell apart politically and unwound in 1991, when the Soviet Union ceased to exist and all its constituent nations declared independence with nary a shot fired by Moscow and the Red Army.

受过高等教育的中国人对俄罗斯嗤之以鼻，因为俄罗斯遭遇了中国非常害怕的命运——彻底的崩溃和屈辱。( 由于中国人早在19世纪和20世纪初就遭受过这种命运，他们不想再回到那个糟糕的时代。)

20世纪80年代，苏联与美国相比变得更加虚弱，1985年之后，在米哈伊尔戈尔巴乔夫的领导下，苏联实施改革和开放政策，对国家进行了彻底的改革，1991年，苏联解体，所有成员国都宣布独立，最后莫斯科和红军连一枪都没开。

Then after 1991, Russian society and economy collapsed completely—average incomes plummeted, poverty increased into unheard of levels, criminal activity and horrendous corruption shot up, and Russia became so poor that she could not even keep her army and navy, once the envies of the world, barely functioning. And the humiliation came when NATO expanded to the borders of Russia (and even incorporated parts of the old Soviet Union in 2004 with the inclusion of the small Baltic nations), and the U.S., Western Europe and Japan started treating Russia like a dysfunctional third-world country and not like the respected, feared nation it was under the Soviet Union.
In Chinese culture teachers are highly revered and respected. Under Confucianism the teacher is one of the four pillars of society, along with the king, the father and the older brother. So Chinese are trained to really look up and follow to the letter what a teacher says and does.
From the 1920s through the 1960s, Russia was the teacher to China’s present leadership, the Chinese Communist Party. The Chinese looked up to the Russians as a result, like revered teachers, and tried to emulate everything the Russians did. The Russians blew up the first atom bomb in Eurasia, so the Chinese tried hard to catch up. The Russians sent the first satellite, the first animal, the first man, and the first woman to space, so the Chinese tried everything they could to follow in their steps. The Russians had built a powerful and respected nation under the Communist system, so the Chinese wanted and tried to do the same, especially under Mao.

1991年后，俄罗斯的社会和经济彻底崩溃——平均收入骤降，贫困上升到前所未闻的水平，犯罪活动和骇人听闻的腐败急剧增加，俄罗斯一度是全世界羡慕的对象，但现在俄罗斯变得如此贫穷，她甚至无法维持其陆军和海军的正常运转。当北约扩张到俄罗斯的边界 ( 甚至在2004年把原属前苏联的一部分波罗的海小国纳入北约 )，这一耻辱就来了。而美国、西欧和日本开始把俄罗斯当作一个功能失调的第三世界国家，而不是苏联统治下的那个受人尊敬的、令人畏惧的国家。

在中国文化中，教师受到高度的尊重和尊敬。在儒家思想下，教师是社会的四大支柱之一，与君王、父亲和兄弟一样（译注：天地君亲师），因此，中国人被训练成要抬起头向上看，遵训老师所说的话和所做的事情。

从20世纪20年代到60年代，俄罗斯是中国的老师，中国人就像尊敬的老师一样尊敬俄国人，并试图模仿俄国人所做的一切。
俄国人在欧亚大陆引爆了第一颗原子弹，所以中国人努力追赶。俄国人把第一颗卫星、第一只动物、第一个男人和第一个女人送上了太空，所以中国人想尽一切办法来跟随他们的脚步。
俄罗斯人在GCZY制度下建立了一个强大而受人尊敬的国家，所以中国人也希望并试图这样做，特别是在毛泽东时代。

Thus when the Russians did a radical 180 degree turn in the late 1980s by freeing up their economy and their political system, and then collapsed suddenly like they did without even a fight, the Chinese suddenly saw the teacher as someone not worthy of respect. And that is one of the cardinal sins in Chinese society: “losing face” and being humiliated in front of the public, especially as a teacher. Russia “lost face” in front of the whole world, and the Chinese were shocked and appalled. As a result they lost all respect for Russia.
Now the Chinese are trying to emulate the U.S., Western Europe and Japan, like they tried to before they became Communist. Russia sort of betrayed China’s trust, and to the Chinese that is also unforgivable.

因此，当俄罗斯人在20世纪80年代末通过解放他们的经济和改变政治制度使俄罗斯来了一个180度的大转弯，然后他们不战而倒，突然崩溃时，中国人把这位老师视为不值得尊敬的人。这是中国社会的一大罪过：“丢脸”，在公众面前受辱，尤其是作为一名老师，俄罗斯在全世界面前“丢脸”，中国人感到震惊和惊讶，因此，他们对俄罗斯失去了所有的尊重。

如今，中国正试图效仿美国、西欧和日本，就像他们在成为T·G之前所做的那样。
俄罗斯在某种程度上背叛了中国的信任，而对中国人来说，这也是不可原谅的。

—————————2——————————

Benson Liu
No, they aren’t.
Most Chinese do have high respect on Russia. Russia is favorable among Chinese.
As for favorable rate of Russia, China is the second in Asia, and third in the world in this poll.
2. It is true that, you may hear a Chinese say “The time for Russia has gone”. When a Chinese says this, he has a very, very complicated and mixed feeling, but NOT contempt.
The first, he feels pity that the red giant USSR is gone. USSR once was a pole of the entire world, the “Big Brother” of China, the good teacher and best “comrade” of China, but it has gone.
Then, he feels relief. Because there were military conflicts between USSR and China in the border, China was even well-prepared to face a war. But as USSR collapsed, the Chinese feel a huge sense of safety and relief.
Next, he is proud of what China has accomplished in the last few decades, especially in economic field. The Chinese realized that China is no longer the “follower” of USSR, but China is becoming even better than Russia in many ways. This brings the Chinese much confidence.
So the conclusion is, Russia is favorable and respected among Chinese, but as USSR collapsed and China keeps growing, and with Russian-Chinese historical reason, Chinese tends to have very mixed feeling towards Russia.

不，他们没有。

 

1、大多数中国人对俄罗斯抱有很高的敬意，俄罗斯在中国中是受欢迎的。
从对俄罗斯喜爱程度上看，这个民意调查显示，中国在亚洲排名第二，在世界排名第三。

2、的确，你可能会听到一个中国人说“俄罗斯的时代已经过去了”，当一个中国人这么说，他有一种非常，非常复杂和纠结的情感，但不是蔑视。

首先，他（中国人）对苏联的解体感到遗憾，苏联曾经是世界的两极之一，是中国的“老大哥”，是中国的良师，是中国最好的“同志”，但它已经不复存在了。

其次，他感到如释重负。由于苏联和中国在边境上发生过军事冲突，中国甚至做好了全面战争的准备，但随着苏联解体，中国人获得了巨大的安全感和解脱感。

最后，他为中国在过去几十年中所取得的成就感到骄傲，特别是在经济领域。中国人意识到中国不再是苏联的“追随者”，中国在许多方面正变得比俄罗斯更好，这给中国人带来了极大的信心。

由此得出的结论是，俄罗斯在中国人中是受欢迎和被尊重的，但随着苏联解体和中国经济的不断发展，由于俄中历史的原因，中国人对俄罗斯的感情往往是非常复杂的。

—————————3——————————

Daniel Cohort, Big Data Director in China
丹尼尔 · 科霍特，中国大数据总监

China fared better than Russia after cold war. Russia was considered teacher and for a time-being the model example for China to follow. Then suddenly after Sino-Soviet split-up in the 1960’s. Soviet Union turned enemy with China. The Chinese feeling of envy, betrayal and fear eventually transformed to a sense of superiority after having seen Russia’s decline in the 1990’s with comparison to China’s rapid rise.
China has more economic power than Russia. GDP per capita per se, Russia is still ahead of China , but when it comes to the total economic volume Russia is only a tiny fraction of China (1/11). Chinese people are very proud of their light industries because they provided much more affluent life for them. We remember very vividly, at least in our textbooks, that in the 1960’s because Russia cut off aids to us, we lost tens of millions of lives in one of the biggest famines in Chinese history.
China is more culturally acceptable in many regions of the world . The Sinosphere still exists in modern day Asia , but communist Russian’s influence is not acceptable by most of its neighbors. When Chinese talk about Russians, we refer to them as the fighting people. The positive connotation is they are persistent , hardship enduring and aggressive. The negative meaning is they constantly resort to aggressive measures without smarter and softer tactics, which is held in higher esteem in traditional Chinese culture.

1、冷战结束后，中国的情况比俄罗斯好，俄罗斯一度被认为是中国的榜样，上世纪60年代中苏分道扬镳之后，苏联成为中国的敌人，中国人的嫉妒、被背叛和恐惧最终转变成了一种优越感，上世纪90年代，与中国的迅速崛起相比，俄罗斯的衰落普遍让中国人感到了一种优越感。

2、中国拥有比俄罗斯更强大的经济实力。就人均GDP而言，俄罗斯仍领先于中国，但就经济总量而言，俄罗斯只占中国的一小部分( 1/11 )。中国人为他们的轻工业感到骄傲，因为他们提供了更富裕的生活，我们非常清楚地记得，至少在我们的教科书中，在20世纪60年代，由于俄罗斯切断了对我们的援助，我们在一场中国历史上最大的饥荒之一中失去了数千万人的生命。

3、中国在文化上更能为世界许多地区所接受。中华文化圈在现代亚洲仍然存在，但GCZY俄罗斯的影响是它的大多数邻国所不能接受的。当中国人谈论俄国人时，我们称他们为“ 战斗民族 ”，积极的内涵是他们坚韧不拔，吃苦耐劳，咄咄逼人，消极的含义是，他们在没有更聪明和更软的策略（这在中国传统文化中受到更高的尊重）的情况下不断采取侵略行动。

—————————5——————————

Lihong Yuan, works at Guizhou
Lihong Yuan, 在贵州工作

Hmm…
Highly educated Chinese this phrase stands for a large number of people.
I don’t know what is your job and who you meet. . . . .
But I am sure it is not a good idea to take their opinions too seriously.
I assure you that these people could be quite ignorant on Russia, nor do they really care. They are just repeating some popular, ear-catching and in some aspects self-satisfying words floating around him/her. Russia is not more important than a cup of tea in his/her life. So it is very likely that they don’t even bother to think about it, or spend(waste) some time to learn about the country.
Ignorant “highly educated” people are everywhere in this modern world. Not just in China. They are only experts in their fields. They are comfortable to be ignorant aside from their little little world.
I know it.
Because I am one of them.
I am well educated in some aspects, but I deeply realize that I am hopelessly ignorant on so many subjects….0v0……=_=…….^o^……Ort…..

恩 。。。。。
“ 受过高等教育的中国人”这句话代表着很多人。
我不知道你的工作是什么，也不知道你遇到了谁。。。。。
不过，我相信过于重视他们的意见并不是一个好主意。
我向你们保证，这些人可能对俄罗斯相当无知，他们也不在乎。他们只是在重复一些流行的、吸引人眼球的话，在某些方面，他/她周围的人也在说一些自我满足的话。在他/她的生活中，俄罗斯并不比一杯茶更重要，因此，很可能他们甚至都不会费心去思考，或者花( 浪费 )一些时间去了解这个国家。
现代世界到处都是无知的“高学历”的人，不仅仅只有中国，他们只是各自领域的专家，除了他们这个小小的世界，他们对自己的无知感到自在。
我知道这一点
因为我是他们中的一员。
我在某些方面受过良好的教育，但我深深地意识到，我对许多事情都无知得无可救药。
.0v0……=_=…….^o^……Ort…..

Of course I am not contemptuous and dismissive of Russia!
I was a fan of Павел Корчагин in my girlhood. He is still my hero. If he were still alive, I think I would not be so afraid of the cold of Russia.I mean I would consider a trip to the country seriously. (He is a novel character, I know it.)
Russia is a great country.
It is a truth.
Nobody can really deny it.
Personally, I have always been in awe of her.
Anybody who really knows something about the country can not miss the power hidden deep in the heart of the country.
Russia will be great again.
I don’t know how they will do it or when they will succeed in doing so.
But I know this day will come.

我肯定是不会轻蔑和蔑视俄罗斯的！
我小时候是 ПавелКорчагин 的粉丝，他仍然是我的英雄，如果他还活着，我想我就不会那么害怕俄罗斯的寒冷了，我是说，我会认真考虑去乡下旅行的。( 我知道他是个小说人物 )
俄罗斯是一个伟大的国家。
这是事实。
没人能真的否认。
就我个人而言，我一直很敬畏她。
任何真正了解这个国家的人都不会错过隐藏在这个国家心脏深处的力量。
俄罗斯将再次成为伟大的国家。
我不知道他们将如何做到这一点，也不知道何时才能成功。
但我知道这一天会到来的。

—————————6——————————

Eamon Dan, a native Beijinger   一个北京人

That is totally not true. Generally we feel sorry and relieved because the Soviet Union was so powerful in the past, and she was our bordering country. This feeling reflects that Chinese take Russia very serious. We RESPECT Russia, even fear for its gigantic nuclear arsenals. Every educated people in China understands how much contribution and sacrifices that the USSR gave during the anti-fascism war, aka the WWII. We are so familiar with how Russians fought Napoleon, Hitler, Kwantung Army, every kid in middle school learns Tolstoy, Pushkin, Repin, Kandinsky, Tchaikovsky; every young student in college studying in science and technology does its homework from Gimidovic. We understand that Russia is just temporarily weak at the moment, during its history, this nation was never lack of talents and brave people. They were great at literature, painting art, music, mathematics, science, they will rise again when they are prepared.
Based on my personal experience, I'd like to summarize the popular impression towards Russia in different ranges of age amongst ordinary Chinese below:
the Twenties: a badass nation with a badass leader who doesn't give a shit to the united States
the Thirties: Russians drink vodka like water, when they get drunk, they fight polar bears for fun.
the Forties: one thing that CCP did right is that we treated our Reformation in very cautious way.
the Fifties: the big brother who betrayed us when we were fighting the great natural disasters.
the Sixties: the Soviets were our comrades, I'd like to sing “Вечер на окраине Москвы” with them and let them taste Chinese baijiu.

这完全不是真的。总的来说，我们感到遗憾和解脱，因为苏联在过去是如此强大，她是我们的邻国。这种感觉反映出中国人对俄罗斯非常重视，我们尊重俄罗斯，甚至对其庞大的核武库感到恐惧。

中国每一个受过教育的人都知道苏联在反法西斯战争，也就是二战期间作出了多大的贡献和牺牲。
我们非常熟悉俄罗斯人是如何与拿破仑、希特勒、关东军作战的，每个中学生都学习托尔斯泰、普希金、列宾、康定斯基、柴可夫斯基，每个在大学学习科学技术的年轻学生都做吉米多维奇作业（注：吉米多维奇数学分析习题集）。
我们知道，俄罗斯目前只是暂时的虚弱，在其历史上，这个国家从来不缺乏人才和勇敢的人民，他们擅长文学、绘画、艺术、音乐、数学、科学，当他们准备好的时候，他们会再次崛起。

根据我个人的经验，我想总结一下普通中国人在不同年龄阶段对俄罗斯的普遍印象：

二十世纪二十年代：一个牛逼的国家，有一个不甩起美国的牛逼领导人。
三十年代：俄罗斯人喝伏特加像水一样，当他们喝醉了，与北极熊战斗是他们的乐趣。
四十年代：中国所做的一件事是，我们以非常谨慎的方式对待我们的改革。
五十年代：我们在与大自然灾害作斗争时我们的老大哥背叛了我们。
六十年代：苏联人是我们的同志，我想和他们一起唱“Вечер на окраине Москвы”（莫斯科郊外的晚上），让他们尝尝中国白酒。

—————————7——————————

Alex Shi
Intellectuals in China feel sorry of the mighty Soviet collapsing like an avalanche, and being fooled and humiliated by the west. This serves a good lesson to CCP that ideological competition still exists between socialist countries and the west capitalist camp, so the CCP can never loose the education on geopolitics and the nature of the current level of capitalism-imperialism.
The Chinese people don't look down on Russia; to the contrary, they have great respect for Russia and the Soviet for military, science andmathematics education, literature and arts, and so on. Besides, most Chinese people still feel grateful for Soviet’s sincere help in China’s early industrialization, even though later the relationship went sour and the once comrades+brothers become hostile to each other. Well-educated Chinese have great sympathy for what Russia has suffered in the past 20+ years. Many stories happened on Russia remind China how untrustworthy the west is.
The only thing China feels a little bit annoyed about Russia is Russia seemed to have no respect for contracts, but this is totally understandable: They just want to maximize their benefits in business, and they have a bad habit of doing business.

中国的知识分子对强大的苏联如雪崩般崩塌、被西方愚弄和羞辱感到遗憾。这对中国来说是一个很好的教训：社会主义国家和西方资本主义阵营之间的意识形态竞争仍然存在，因此，中国绝不能放松地缘政治教育和错判当前资本主义—帝国主义水平的性质。

中国人民不轻视俄罗斯，相反，他们非常尊重俄罗斯和苏联的军事、科学和数学教育、文学艺术成就。
此外，大多数中国人仍然感激苏联对中国早期工业化的真诚帮助，尽管后来关系恶化，曾经的同志+兄弟最后相互敌视，受过良好教育的中国人对俄罗斯在过去20多年里遭受的苦难深表同情，许多发生在俄罗斯的故事提醒中国，西方是多么不值得信任。

中国对俄罗斯唯一感到有点恼火的是，俄罗斯似乎不尊重契约或合同，但这是完全可以理解的：他们只是想在商业上获得最大的利益，而且他们做生意有不良习惯。

—————————8——————————

Lim Liu, studied at Tongji University
Lim Liu，在同济大学学习

That’s only your words.Care to provide some evidences to back it up?
Comtemptuous and dismissive of Russia among highly educated Chinese people?That’s something I almost never heard of.If anything,maybe the opposite.
My friends and I always admire Russia’s contribution to World War 2 ,science and art. And Russian people’s intelligence,creativity and persistence.

这只是你的一面之辞，介意提供一些证据来支持它吗？
在受过高等教育的中国人中，对俄罗斯轻蔑和不屑一顾？这是我几乎从未听说过的，如果说有什么不同的话，也许正好相反。
我和我的朋友们一直钦佩俄罗斯对第二次世界大战、科学和艺术的贡献，以及俄罗斯人民的智慧、创造力和毅力。

—————————9——————————

Xu Cheng, lived in China (1988-2012)
Xu Cheng，生活在中国（1988-2012）

Because you happen to meet some people that are contemptuous and dismissive of Russia.
Your teacher at your elementary school should have taught you that you shouldn’t generalize your observations in this way.
After reading other answers, I find it is quite interesting that people in Quora can explain everything, even if they are not true.
Why don’t you try asking “I work in China. Why do highly educated Chinese seem to admire Russia?”

因为你碰巧遇到一些轻蔑和蔑视俄罗斯的人。
你小学的老师应该教过你，不应该用这种方式概括你的观察。
在读了其他的答案后，我发现很有趣的是，Quora上的人可以解释一切，即使它们不是真的。
你为什么不试着问“  我在中国工作，为什么受过高等教育的中国人似乎很崇拜俄罗斯？ “

—————————10——————————

Alex Liu, Editor at For Freedom (2013-present)
亚历克斯 · 刘，《为自由而战》编辑 ( 2013年至今 )

One reason maybe is the highly educated Chinese may have better understanding about the the advantages of western systems comparing with Russian’s.
Actually, except for the CCP, almost all of the Chinese people prefer the USA system than others.
One of the reason that the CCP achieved the support from Chinese people, especially, from the Chinese intelligentsia , before 1949 is Mao used to promise to Chinese people to establish a system just like USA which let the people to vote to choose their government leaders, and to form the government which is of the people, for the people, and by the people.
It looks after 68 years governance of dictatorship of CCP, until now, the dream of Chinese people is still not faded.

其中一个原因可能是受过高等教育的中国人可能比俄罗斯人更了解西方制度的优势。
事实上，除了中国之外，几乎所有的中国人都喜欢美国的制度。
中国在1949年以前得到中国人民特别是中国知识分子的支持的原因之一是，毛泽东向中国人民承诺要建立一个像美国一样的制度，让人民投票选举他们的政府领导人，组成为人民服务的、人民的政府。
中国经过了68年的独裁统治，直到现在，中国人民的梦想还没有破灭。

—————————11——————————

Yen Tseng
No contemptuous~
No dismissive~
There is a word in China“怒其不争”——mean：Because you don't work hard enough, I'm very angry！

“Big brother” should get more, not the present state in the world
~~~~~~~~
Let's recollect our friendship,that throw away race, color, religion。

没有轻蔑~
没有不屑~
在中国有一个词“怒其不争”，意思是：因为你工作不够努力，我很生气！
“老大哥”应该得到更多，而不是现在的世界。
~~~
让我们抛开种族、肤色、宗教之争，回忆一下我们的友谊。