《三体2：黑暗森林》最新海外书评之三（2016年至今） [美国媒体]

（书名）The Dark Forest (Remembrance of Earth's Past #2)，

《黑暗森林：地球往事三部曲之二》



作者：刘慈欣
译者：Joel Martinsen
平均星数：4.5/5
亚马逊售价：$14.29

【上篇】亚马逊书评部分（取2016年至今）

1、 四星，2018
The second book of the trilogy is alsomidway in its style. Somewhere between the fantastical world-building ofDeath's End and down-to-earth conspiracy/politicizing of The Three BodyProblem.
The book is just as enthralling, and yetsuffers from the same problems as the other books - heavy use of analogies getsa bit tiring, and I personally could not really connect to any one of thecharacter's motives although the attempt to build more rounded characters isnoticable.

三部曲的第二部在风格上也是走中间路线的。介于空想世界建构的《死神永生》，根植于现实的阴谋兼政治性的《三体》之间。
本书和其他两本一样引人入胜，然而也存在着同样的瑕疵，类比运用过度，让人有点厌倦，而且任何一个人物的动机都没法让我感同身受，虽然构建更丰满人物的尝试是显而易见的。



You watch a Hollywood action movie, you canexpect main characters to behave a certain way, events to go a certain way,governments or corporations to act a certain way. It's not the way things go in*real life*, but it's the way things go in a Hollywood movie, we're used to it.

你看一部好莱坞动作片，你会期待主要人物以特定的形式去行事，事件也以特定的形式去发展，政府和公司也会以特定的形式去行动。而这些并不是“现实生活”中事情发生发展的方式，但这是一部好莱坞电影里事情发展的方式，我们习惯了它。

In "The Dark Forest", people andorganizations also do not act the way they do in real life. But it's using adifferent set of conventions and expectations. Lots of things in this book havethe sound of cold-war Communist dialectics, or of Chinese folk tales.Government officials place a top priority on instilling the proper ideologicalzeal in their people. Characters say things in conversation like"Emancipation of human nature inevitably brings with it scientific andtechnological progress." People go on lengthy trips with companions who donot actually exist.

在《黑暗森林》中，人和组织也不以现实生活中的方式去形式。但里面用的是一整套不一样的约定俗成和期待。本书中的很多事情带有冷战中共产主义辩证法的印记，或是中国民间传说的味道。政府官员的首要任务就是在他们的人民中缓步灌输合适的意识形态热情。在对话中人物会说一些像是“人性的解放不可避免地带来了科技进步。”走上漫长旅程的人们，和并不真实存在的伴侣在一起。

The scientific imaginings are a mixed bag -one bit involving some very different kinds of spacecraft (trying to avoidspoilers here) is brilliant, lots of other things are kind of silly, it really dependson how you like your "hard SF".

科学想象是一盘大杂烩，一部分包括了些非常不同类型的太空飞船，这点挺赞的，而许多其他的东西就有点傻兮兮，这真的取决于你有多喜欢“硬科幻”。

Certainly worth reading, at the very leastto see what all the excitement is about and to see some of those very differentways of telling a story.

当然它值得一读，至少去看看所有的兴奋点都是些什么，并去瞧瞧那些非常不同的讲故事方法。

5、三星，2017
I won't engage in any plot spoilers here,but I can broadly tick off some of the things that gnawed away at me. Key plotpoints reveal that Cixin Liu has no idea how the Hubble Space Telescope works.No idea how astronomers study planets around other stars. No idea how an atomicbomb works. No idea how a gun works! The errors are so glaring that at first Itook them for translation glitches, but as the plot progresses it's clear thatthey are the author's own mistakes--mistakes that a half hour of googling couldhave avoided. For me, that laziness eroded a lot of the suspension of disbeliefneeded to soar through a book like this.

我在这里不会剧透任何情节，但我可以宽泛地列举出一些困扰折磨我的东西。关键的情节点透露出刘慈欣并不清楚哈勃太空望远镜是如何运作的。不清楚宇航员是如何研究围绕着其他恒星的行星的。不清楚原子弹是如何工作的。不清楚一把枪是如何运作的！这些错误是如此刺眼，一开始我还以为是因为翻译错误，但随着情节进展，很明显能看出它们就是作者自己的错误，这些错误是Google半小时就能避免的。对我来说，看完这么一本书让我产生了些高涨的怀疑，搁置这些怀疑的动作被前者的那种懒惰破坏了。

There are also several pivotal moments inthe middle section when primary characters (most notably the Wallfacers andWallbreakers) behave in illogical ways that seem entirely out of character, andcounter to human nature. That's a subjective reaction on my part, I realize.Many others clearly felt otherwise.

在书中间的部分也有若干个关键的瞬间，那时主要人物（最显着的是面壁人和破壁人）的行为不合逻辑，看上去完全背离了人物，而且和人性相悖。这是我这边的主观反应，这我意识到了。有很多人的感觉显然是相反的。

What troubled me the most, though, was thewhole concept of "the dark forest." Suffice it to say, if you knowanything about astronomy and SETI efforts, you'll understand that the premiseis wildly, laughably misguided. It relies on a fundamental misunderstanding ofhow scientists locate sources in the sky. The plot could have worked much thesame with a more realistic depiction of the dark-forest concept, but the wayit's explained here is techno-babble of the lowest order.

然而最让我抓狂的是“黑暗森林”这一整个概念。无需多言，如果你了解任何天文学和搜寻地外文明计划（SETI）领域的的努力，你就会明白这个假设疯狂误导人到了可笑的地步。它建立在对科学家如何在天上定位源头的根本性误解之上。如果对黑暗森林概念的描写来得更加现实主义一些，情节本也同样可以说得通，但本书中它解释它的方式是最低阶的高科技胡言乱语。

All of which is a shame, because many ofthe characters are beautifully drawn, the plotting is again blazingly creative,and some of the insights into mass psychology are sensitive and surprising.There's so much to love about this book. I just wish the good didn't comeweighted with such a lodestone of simplistic goofs.

所有的这些可谓憾事，因为有许多人物描摹地很漂亮，又一次，阴谋极富创造性，而且部分对大众心理的洞见敏察而又让人惊叹。本书有太多让人钟爱之处。我只是希望这些闪光点不要被那些低级错误祸害了。

【下篇】Goodreads书评部分
1、四星，2018
Book 1: 4*
Book 2: 4.5*
第一部：4星
第二部：4.5星



3、两星，2016
Minute Physics did a video a while backabout why we might, statistically, be looking for life in the wrong places. Thearguments outlined in that video, while not the same as what Luo discusses inthis book, make similar claims about the way we can use statistics toextrapolate about life in the cosmos. I am somewhat sympathetic to this pointof view. Both arguments sound sensible, and if Luo’s “dark forest” is chilling,that doesn’t make it any less likely. However, I always get wary when peoplestart invoking the law of large numbers. There are a lot of assumptions toLuo’s cosmic sociology, and if even one of them is off, it could have a hugeimpact on his hypothesis. (I guess that’s why he performs his test first, somaybe I should give him some credit for being more scientific about it thansome.)

《一分钟物理》栏目不久前出过一个视频，是关于从统计学角度来看，为什么我们可能是在错误的地方寻找生命。那个视频中概述的论证，虽然和罗辑在本书中讨论的不是一回事，但对于我们可以使用统计学来推断宇宙中的生命给出了相似的论断。这种观点让我产生了些共鸣。两种论证听起来都合乎情理，而就算罗辑的“黑暗森林”让人胆寒，也不会使它的可能性更低。然而，当人们开始求助于大数法则的时候，我总会谨慎视之。罗辑的宇宙社会学中存在许多假设，而只要有其中一个站不住脚，就会对他的假说产生重大冲击。（我猜这就是为什么他先做了实验，所以也许我还是应该肯定他，因为他比一些人更讲究科学）
（译注：在随机事件的大量重复出现中，往往呈现几乎必然的规律，这个规律就是大数定律。通俗地说，这个定理就是，在试验不变的条件下，重复试验多次，随机事件的频率近似于它的概率。偶然中包含着某种必然；“做了实验”指罗辑在对决三体人前用“咒语”摧毁了一个星系以验证黑暗森林法则的真确）

Things might have been different I had beenable to identify with any of the characters. The closest thing we get to a maincharacter is Luo Ji, but even he is a bit flat. I’m not surprised by this afterreading The Three-Body Problem, but it doesn’t help given the otherwise dry andphilosophical narrative. Even when the action really picks up in the final act,I just felt myself shrugging. There is too much Big Picture here. It might workas a Hollywood sci-fi blockbuster—but they would gut the philosophy from it andrecast everyone as American. (It would have just as few women as the bookthough!)

如果我本可以认同任何一个人物，情况也许会有所不同。最能让我们摸得着的主要人物是罗辑，但就算是他也有点扁平。在读过《三体》后这个问题已经不让我惊讶了，但鉴于其枯燥和哲学化的叙事，并不能带来什么帮助。甚至当动作场景在最后一幕真的变好了，我也只是感觉自己耸了耸肩而已。这里面有太多的全局思考了。这在好莱坞科幻大片中可能会管用，但美国人会摘除其中的哲学部分，并且会把演员阵容全换成美国人。（然而出现的女性会和书中一样少！）

The Dark Forest is every bit as stimulatingand thought-provoking as science fiction should be. It’s not especiallycaptivating a story—even though the stakes are literally existential. This isan example of how attempts at ultra-realistic science fiction will often fallflat simple because the long timeline and utter unforgiving nature of spacetravel robs a great deal of the sense of urgency and forward motion we need inour narratives. Perhaps this is a human failing. Perhaps there is a species ofslower-living aliens whose thought processes are ideal for stories aboutspaceflight. Maybe they will emerge victorious as the best hunters in the darkforest….

科幻小说可以给出的刺激性和创见，《黑暗森林》给到了极致。它不是一个特别迷人的故事，尽管不夸张地说，赌注关乎存亡。这是一个例子，即尝试超写实科幻小说往往会陷入干瘪，仅仅是因为漫长的时间线加上极端无情的太空旅行的本质，夺走了很大一部分在我们的叙事中需要的紧迫感和前进的动能。也许这是人类的一个弱点。也许存在一个慢节奏生活的外星种族，其思维进程针对太空飞行类的故事是很理想的。也许他们可以作为黑暗森林中最好的猎手无往而不胜。

4、三星，2016
this is engineering fiction written byengineers for engineers. beware readers who are not sf readers already. bewarereaders who want things like rounded characters or human relationships orvaried attitudes and other messy human qualities...

这是由工程师写给工程师的工程小说。那些不是科幻小说读者的读者要当心了。那些想要丰满的人物、人际关系、或是各色心态乃至乱纷纷人类特质的读者要当心了...

things have to happen so many thingshappen. characters are more viewpoints who are conveniently central to plot,whose individual psychology is not much more relevant than that of entirerather homogenous future human society. there is some sense of history, sometech, some magic- but the nature of this work reminds me more of midcenturyAmerican Golden Age sf and not so much AC Clarke or Olaf Stapledon. sense ofwonder and technofetishism is in full. human society and being istechnologically overdetermined. human history is summed up after the fact. arethere women of consequence, not really- make that. not. at. all. this is sf asboys' club. this is slightly over half humanity that is more or less invisibleand inconsequential. as well, it seems that there is not much populace exceptnameless crowded background to the ideas and actions of our central viewpoints.mass psychology is perhaps more plausible or interesting if less fantasticallyspeculative than say the foundation series, but not by much. the answers areconsistent with the questions. there is the conceptual shared ground of sciencewith the aliens. there is extension of sortof platonic presumed essential humanthought to share with the aliens...

一些事一定会发生，如此多的事情交相迭至。人物多呈现为观点和看法，他们很容易地就在情节中居于枢要，而他们的个体心理，并不比未来相当同质化的整个人类社会的个体心理更为重要。里头有一些历史感，一些技术感，一些魔幻感，但该作品的本质更多让我想到的是上世纪中叶美国科幻小说的黄金时代，倒没有很多克拉克或奥拉夫·斯塔普雷顿的味道。满是奇迹和技术崇拜的感觉。人类社会和其中之人被技术上的诸多因素决定。人类的历史是以客观事实来总结的。存不存在重要的女性，并不会真的肇生什么改变，完全不会。这是形同男生俱乐部的科幻小说。这可是略微过半的人，或多或少都不可见乃至无关紧要。同样地，貌似针对核心观点的主意和行动中，除去那些无名的攒动人头构成的背景，也没有太多庸众。如果比《基地》系列少一些空想的推测（虽然《基地》系列也远远不够），书中论及的大众心理可能会更可信、更有趣。答案与问题相合。与外星人有着科学领域共同的概念性基础。外星人也同样具备柏拉图式的预设中会有的基本人类思想的延伸...
（译注：奥拉夫·斯塔普雷顿(1886-1950) ，英国哲学家、科幻作家，有《最后和最先的人》（1930）、《造星者》（1937）和《天狼星》（1944）等传世。其作品影响了亚瑟·查理斯·克拉克等许多科幻作家。其作品预告了超人类主义的到来）

5、五星，2017
I am highly inclined to tag this one as‘The Empire Strikes Back‘ of series, notwithstanding the fact that the thirdbook is yet to be covered. And Liu’s ultra-pragmatic Dark Forest deterrencetheory, among many other things, blew me away to such an extent that I mightnot look the Fermi Paradox, the same way ever again.

我特别想把本书标签为《帝国反击战》系列，但这经不住我还没读过第三部这个事实。大刘那极其求真务实的黑暗森林威慑理论，连同很多别的要素，把我给震惊了，已经到了我可能不会再以同样的眼光看待费米悖伦的地步了。

In my opinion Three Body Problem was a bitdemanding, with its groundwork in remote history and near future scientificprinciples; The Dark Forest on the other hand, felt more accessible, as anextended reaction towards the First Contact story line. Also, Liu’s inoculationof scientific ideas made me think in a discursive course during the read thanbeing intuitive about the plot. As a reader, I never felt under equipped tounderstand the rocket science; for the author has been, subtly, instilling therequired science and philosophy, without them ever appearing like expositions.I found this treatment very restorative.



I’ve been keeping myself off from readingfor a few days, after finishing the book, just to extend the unalteredexcitement little more, and to perhaps, formulate an unbiased opinion. Onemight nit-pick on pace, narratives and characters; but, to me, they wereperception checks to appreciate the genius of Liu. For, over the grand scale ofstory, The Dark Forest felt like the work of a higher being like Trisolran thana normal human in creativity.

我在看完本书后，已经好几天不让自己去阅读了，只是为了多疏散一点那不曾变化的兴奋劲儿，而且可能的话，去酝酿出一个不抱偏见的观点。有人也许会在节奏、叙事和人物方面吹毛求疵，但对我来说，他们这是为了欣赏大刘的天才而去核查自己的知觉。对于这个故事宏大到出离的尺度而言，《黑暗森林》在创造力方面，感觉像是更高等生命的作品，比如三体人，而不是一个正常人类所为。