美国是否偷窃了印第安人的土地？《终》 [美国媒体]

Did America steal its land from the Native Americans?

美国是否偷窃了印第安人的土地？《终》

Laura Cody
It's wrapped up in four key items.
#1 Christianity and its theology of the inheritance from the Jews of being God's Chosen people. With this in mind Christians supported excursion into lands peopled with "heathens". I don't know if the Church supported this with money but Monks and Priests were right behind them ready to covert the indigenous to Christ.
As the years roll on, these two ideas became Manifest Destiny.

回答十一：
这个问题包含四个关键的因素：
第一：
基督教及其神学是源自犹太人，把自己当做上帝的选民.
考虑到这一点，基督徒们被鼓励到“异教徒”的地方远足

我不知道教会是否用金钱来支持奔赴远方的基督信徒，但是，我知道僧侣和牧师就跟随在他们的身后，准备让土着人皈依基督.
随着岁月的流逝，这两种思想成为了天命.



4. The Native Americans did not think they could own land, it was for them to live off of. That said, over the Centuries the boundaries of the area of the tribes became close to carved in stone. So where they still didn't own the land, they did consider it as theirs to use. Originally the Natives assumed that these tribes of Europeans would treat the land as they did.
Not happening.

第四：
印第安人认为自己不能拥有土地，他们只能依靠土地生活.
也就是说，几个世纪以来，部落地区的边界基本上都是被刻在石头上.

对于边界之外的土地，他们确实认为它也是可以使用的.
一开始，印第安人以为欧洲来的白人也会像他们那样做，像他们那样对待这块土地.
然而，土着们的想法错了！

So we have Europeans who once upon a time treated the land pretty much like the indigenous of North America. And lets not forget Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel, and Manifest Destiny and the Church with its insatiable appetite to convert the world all converging on the new American continent.So did Americans steal the land? Not from the prevailing worldview of the time. Most of the land looked available to them.From the Native-American view, not exactly. Now as the Natives got squeezed I suspect they quickly adopted the land ownership idea, but by then there millions fewer.So its not so cut and dried, but regardless of all the forces and cultures that formed us, our ancestors did a lot of damage to a lot of people and we need to own it and remember it every time we get an idea to invade someone else's land.

所以有些欧洲人，他们以前对待这块土地就像对待北美的土着一样——抬出了枪炮、细菌和钢铁. 以及天命和教会，以及他们永不满足的欲望，要把世界变成一个新的美洲大陆的欲望！
让我们永远记住贾里德·戴蒙德的枪炮、细菌和钢铁！

那么，美国人“偷窃”了这块土地了吗？
当时流行的世界观来看: NO ! 当时，在他们看来，大部分土地都是可以得到的.

从美州土着人的观点来看的话，那些白人移民也不完全是“偷窃”土地.
当今，土着人受到挤压，我觉得他们很快就接受了土地所有权的想法，但是他们的人口已经少了几百万了.

所以“土地所有权的概念”不是一成不变的，但是，不管我们的文化和内在是如何形成的，不管我们的祖先伤害了多少人，我们都不能擦除掉这些历史，我们还要时刻警示，特别是当我们升起入侵他们土地的念头的时候.



Uri Shtand
Stealing is a concept that happens between individual people. Not between nations.When the state takes tax from you, does it steal? What if it uses an eminent domain rule (practically take your property)? What about jail? Does it steal your years? When two armies clash, is it murder?Was the system against Native Americans? Sure. Was it just? Certainly not. Was it “stealing”? No.There was an abundance of cases where individuals and groups in America took land from the native Americans. That was stealing.Ownership laws are not universal - even today. They are created and maintained by the country or power that currently holds the area in question.The British and other colonial forces invaded America, and took over it. The same happened all over the world, over and over again (whole populations were erased or swallowed all the time).Nations don’t work by the same rules as men do. Not even modern ones.

回答十三：
“偷窃”是一个发生在个人之间的概念. 不适用于国与国之间.
当国家向你征收税款时，它是偷窃吗?
如果国家使用土地征用规则(实际上是没收你的财产)怎么办 ?
监狱呢 ? 它是否偷走了你的年华? 当两军交战时，那是谋杀吗?

这个系统（白人夺地）是针对美国土着人的吗? 是的.
那么，这样做公正吗？ 肯定不.
那么，这样做事“偷窃”吗？ 不.
在美国有很多个人和团体从美洲原住民手中夺取土地的案例，这无疑是偷窃.

即使在今天，领土的所有权法也不是普遍适用的.
它是由目前控制该地区的国家或势力来创造、维持的.
英国和其他殖民势力入侵北美并接管了美州，这种事情全世界都发生，一遍又一遍地发生(当地所有的人都被抹杀或吞掉了).
即使是现代的国家，它的运行规则与个人也是不同的.

James Nelson
It was stealing, and if you’re going to split hairs over the legal definition of same, then shame on you.

评论1：
这就是“偷窃”. 如果你要扛精于法律术语的定义，你就是无耻.

Uri Shtand
Its not about legal definitions. Its about the idea that taking an action such as stealing and applying that to countries (all of them) doesn't work. You just end up calling all the countries thieves.If a law (real or moral or religious) is broken by everyone, than it becomes meaningless. Since we don't want stealing to become meaningless, we don't apply it to countries.Instead we can talk about equality, and historical rights and so on. We can and should use different terms to paint the evils done by countries. Not those defined by the countries themselves.

评论2：
这与法律定义无关.
这是谈论某个“行为”，比如偷窃这个行为，它无法适用于国家.
你是把所有的国家称为“窃贼”.

如果某个法律(真实的、道德的或宗教的)被所有人都违反了，那么这个法律就变得毫无意义. 既然我们不想让“偷窃”是个法律变得毫无意义，我们就不把它应用于国家.
相反，我们可以谈论平等，历史权利等等.
我们可以也应该用不同的术语来描述国家所做的坏事. 这些术语不能是国家自己定义的.

Carlyle Brady
Have you not read any of your elementary school history? The answer is yes. But I must add that many of the Indians were nomadic meaning they never stayed in one area for long. They did not mine for minerals or cut vast amounts of trees down. They were also way behind the Europeans in technology. So it was a no brainer that a vastly more advanced society would come along and put down some rules as to the use of the land. First things, the Indians can do what the want as long as the Europeans are not near them yet. If they decide they want to stay then they will have to abide by the same rules as the Europeans. That means you live on the same land that you now own and you are free to cultivate it and to raise animals like anyone else. But guess what? Through prejudice and wars the Indians were forcibly removed from thier property before they knew of it’s worth and for the first 2–300 years of European settlements the Indians were moved further and further west.

回答十四：
你们没有读过小学历史吗 ? 题主的答案是：是的，偷窃了！
但是，我必须补充一点，许多印第安人是游牧民族，这意味着他们从来没有在一个地区呆过很长时间.

他们没有开采矿物，也没有砍伐大量的树木.
他们在技术上也远远落后于欧洲人.
因此，一个更加先进的社会出现并制定一些关于土地使用的规则是显而易见的.

没有欧洲人靠近的时候，印第安人是可以为所欲为的.
如果印第安人决定定居下来，那么他们将不得不遵守与欧洲人相同的规则.
这意味着你生活在你现在拥有的土地上，你可以像其他人一样自由地耕种和饲养动物.

但你们猜猜后来怎么着 ?
由于偏见和战争，印第安人在知道土地的价值之前就被强行赶出了他们的领土，
在欧洲殖民的头2-300年里，印第安人被不断地向西迁移.


或者其他美国人在他们生活中做的任何事情.

我不相信我们在美国的其他种族中也会（像印第安人）那么做，为什么印第安人就例外呢?
这些印第安保留区是对我们丑陋的过去历史的公开伤害，它只会进一步将这些人与美国社会隔离开来.
如果印第安人因为那些保留区曾经是整个美国剩下的属于印第安人的土地而要坚持居住在里面（不出来融入美国社会）的话，那很好。
但是，（现在的社会已经发展到了）他们必须对他们的生活做出选择的时候了.

Prasanth Akurathi
The native Americans n australian aborginees were still tribes, while rest of world was Nationalistic. The Europeans were resource thristy and never cared if they were stepping into Human occupied territory n to respect their natural environmental integrity.This issue is just like evacuation of tribals or deforestration or animal hunting from their natural reserves in any of rest of world countries to extract resources from their habitats. Humans are not plants n animals not to be considered as theft.

回答十五：
美洲土着和澳大利亚土着仍然是部落，而世界其他地方则是国家.
欧洲人是贪婪资源的，他们从不关心自己是否踏进了其他人类已经占领了的领土，也不尊重他人的自然环境的完整性. 这就像从世界其他任何国家的自然保护区中驱逐、猎杀动物，从它们的栖息地中提取资源.
人类不是植物，不是动物，不能视为可随意盗窃的对象.

The modern world should have educated n civilized people in America to form their own nation.. But as u know so much friendship is impossible.. Its a dog eat dog world in civilization who are busy making their own profits.. Even kingdoms n highly nationalisitc civilizations were plundered n looted by colonial European powers..what will unprotected native Americans who not even aware of concepts of nation n resources protect their propety n lands n resources. They werent just thiefs..but Europeans behaved as bandits n dacoits n raped n murdered them brutally n it was much more horrible than deforestration or hunting.. Highly heinous things happened that never have happened in history of mankind.Finally American countries have built thier fortresses on pile of sins of human torture n distress..on their graveyards.. The cries of the souls still echo through the land n the Europeans settled their will face consequences of their conscious robbery n looting of others property of unclaimed lands.

现代世界应该教育、教化美国土着人，让他们建立自己的国家.
但是，大家也都知道，世界上不可能有这么多好心的国家的.
在人类文明中，一个狗咬狗的世界，大家都忙着为自己谋利.
甚至那些国家程度化极高的王国文明也被欧洲殖民列强掠夺.

（在这样一个若肉强食）的丛林世界里，
甚至国家和资源的概念都没有的宛如赤裸的印第安人怎能幸免（于欧洲白人）的荼毒？
欧洲白人不只是小偷。他们的行为是土匪、强盗，强奸、残忍地杀害印第安人，这比驱逐和狩猎动物还更可怕. 这是人类有史以来发生过的令人发指的事情.

最后，美利坚在人类饱受折磨和苦难的罪恶中，在充满亡灵冤魂之地建立了他们的堡垒.
（印第安的）亡魂嚎哭仍然回荡在这片大地上空，
欧洲人，请做好准备迎接你们有意识的抢劫、掠夺无人认领的土地的后果吧.

Bible clearly states “Never lust of what is not yours..”
Native Americans might not have knowledge of Nations n sense of possesion of their resources, but Europeans have that knowledge right? Dont they have any shame? Dont they know they shouldnt touch what is not theirs.. Why did they lust for sinful possession of others properties n resources?Americans and Europeans are now befouled n guilty with possession and enjoyment of looted property.. Like possessing a cursed treasure..growing n eating poisonous fruits. They are soon to face plagues as second coming of Jesus/ Descend of Kalki occurs..Even after being quoted about Egyptian Paroahs , so clearly, n pre-informed about the result - Biblical plagues of Egypt, How could Europeans resort to colonial rules n slave trades?? After discovery of Americas, they should have helped Native Americans learn Nationalism n possession , n done fair trade with them to use their resources..but they still love to loot others (Iraq) n enslave Native Americans in their own land .. Till date there is no Red Indian as President of USA.. SUCH A SHAME !

圣经清楚地说过:“不要贪恋不属于你的…”
美洲原住民占有国家和资源概念，但欧洲人，他们知道，对吧?
他们难道不感到羞耻吗 ?
他们难道不知道应该别碰他人的东西吗？
他们为什么罪恶地贪婪占有别人的财产和资源?

美国人和欧洲人现在因占有、享受被掠夺来的财产而有罪. 就像占有被诅咒的宝藏…吃有毒的水果. 当耶稣第二次降临、卡尔基降临时，他们很快就会面临灾难.
即使是在圣经如此清晰、如此先知地预告埃及法老、预告埃及瘟疫之后，
（熟知圣经警示）的欧洲人怎么还能（无耻地）殖民美洲、贩卖奴隶？

在发现美洲大陆后，他们本来应该帮助美洲原住民学习成立国家，学习保护财产，并与他们进行公平贸易以使用他们的资源.
但是他们仍然喜欢掠夺别人(伊拉克)，在原住民的土地上奴役印第安人.
到目前为止，美国总统还没有轮到印第安人. 无耻！



Stefan Hill
The Chinese did expell native peoples while expanding to the east find to the south

评论1：
中国向东、向南扩张的同时也驱逐当地人.

Ben Austin
Oh, I’m sure. That was just the only culture I could think of who has resided in roughly the same area since before recorded history. Everyone else pretty took their land from someone else, Native Americans included.

评论2：
哦，确实.
中国是有记载史以来我唯一能想到的一个人们都居在大致相同的地区的文明.
几乎所有其他的人都是从他人手中掠夺了土地，包括美州原住民.

Stefan Hill
Scandinavians did not!The ice withdraw and the first one to enter the land was a Scandinavian. Never conquered! Still here.

评论3：
斯堪的纳维亚人没有!
冰雪融化之后，第一个进入陆地的是斯堪的纳维亚人. 他们从未被征服过，还居住在这里..



Just b/c someone claims a parcel of land, doesn’t make it theirs. CLAIMS? Some of the tribes were benevolent with the Europeans. The Jews showed up & well you’ll have to research the liquor refineries they opened & sold to the American Indian.The Anglo Saxons didn’t do anything the American Indians were doing. We just did it better & had more people.If the American Indian had come together as one? Things may have turned out very differently. The Anglo brought to this nation. Created from nothing.No white people, Europeans, did NOT steal anything. They white Euro’s were constantly under attack by certain tribes, & was forced to fight at times.They were murdered, kidnapped, ransomed, etc…There was a lot of blood shed during the building of America. Be proud of who you are, if your family came here in the 1600’s as mine did.

某人仅仅声明一块土地属于他，并不意味着这块土地就是他的.
声明？ 一些部落对欧洲人很仁慈. 犹太人来了，恩，你得调查调查犹太人开的酒厂、卖给土着人的行径.

盎格鲁撒克逊人没有做任何美洲印第安人正在做的事情.
我们只是做得更好，生更多的人.
如果印第安人团结一致? 事情的结果可能截然不同.
盎格鲁人给这个国家带来了创造. 从无到有.

欧洲白人没有偷过任何东西. 相反，欧洲白人还经常被某些土着人攻击. 有时被迫自卫. 欧洲白人被谋杀、绑架、赎回等等……
在建设美国的过程中，有许多人流血牺牲.
如果你的家人像我一样在17世纪初来到这里，你应该为自己感到骄傲.

Corey Newman, CEO (2017-present)
An actual Native American here.The answer is Yes.I could go into much greater detail about the US forcibly breaking Native treaties with England, the US breaking its own treaties with EVERY tribe, President Jackson ignoring the US Supreme Court and forcibly removing an untold number of Natives from their previously renegotiated lands, manifest destiny, the US government paying a bounty for Native scalps in an effort to depopulate through murder, smallpox blankets, etc., but the answer is yes, no matter what anyone else says. Any would-be denier would call it theft if it happened to them, so spare me any hypocrisy.Thanks for your question. Carry on.

回答十八：
货真价实的北美印第安人在此.
答案是： Yes.
我可以详细地列出美国强行撕毁印第安人与英格兰签订的条约.
美国撕毁了与印第安部落签订的所有条约.

杰克逊总统无视美国最高法院的判决，
强行把无数的印第安人从他们先前与政府重新谈判确定下来的居住地上铲除掉.
是谓——昭昭天命.
美国政府为了灭绝印度安人，就散布天花病毒，使用屠杀的手段来对付印第安人.
印第安人的头皮可以用来向政府领赏.

不管别人怎么说，美国是否偷窃土地的答案都是：Yes.
任何想要否认的人，如果这种事发生在他们身上，他们铁定称它为偷窃，所以，
请不要虚伪.
谢谢你的提问，加油.