小麦什么时候传播到古代中国并开始广泛传播？ [美国媒体]

When wheat arrived and became widespread inpremodern China?

小麦什么时候传播到古代中国并开始广泛传播？



robto
We all know that wheat is the main cropproduced in Northern China and wheat products have an ubiquitous presence inNorthern Chinese dishes and it forms the main staple, but it was not like thisin the past.

我们都知道小麦是中国北方生产的主要农作物。小麦产品在中国北方菜肴中无处不在，它是主要北方人的主食，但在过去却不是这样。

The main crop that was grown in the earlyhistory of the Chinese civilisation was millet - mainly the "foxtailmillet" type. Wheat is without a doubt a middle eastern crop in its originthat was imported to China somewhere along history.
By saying that, I want to know when wheatfirst arrived in China and particularly when it turned out as the main staplein Northern China.

中国文明发展早期的主要农作物是小米，主要是“狐尾小米”。毫无疑问小麦是一种中东作物，它起源在历史上中东的某个地方。说到这里我想知道小麦是什么时候第一次来到中国，特别是它在何时成为中国北方主食。

stevapalooza
I think it depends on the area. In someplaces in the north wheat has been grown for thousands of years. I've read thatwheat farming actually predates millet in some areas. In other areas it wasintroduced later. The Sung expanded winter wheat farming further south into theYangtze delta, according to Needham.

我认为这取决于种植面积。在北方一些地方小麦已经种植了数千年。我读到过某些地区小麦的种植实际上比小米早。在其他领域小麦则是后来被引入的。李约瑟说过宋朝官方将冬小麦种植地进一步向南延伸到了长江三角洲。



mnsr
Aupmanyav said:
Interesting question for India too. Thelocal grain was rice. What the Aryans knew was barley. So, wheat came frommiddle-east. The question is when?
It started spreading out of FertileCrescent around 8000 BC. Reached India around 6500 BC. And very likely reachedChina during the Longshan culture

大约在公元前8000年左右小麦开始从肥沃的新月沃地蔓延开来。大约在公元前6500年被传播到印度。很有可能在龙山文化期间被传播到中国

stevapalooza
Needham, again, mentions the time of thefirst arrival of wheat in China as being between 3000 BCE and 2000 BCE. It'smentioned as being grown by the Longshan culture of the Yellow river, whichexisted during that time. That might be the oldest evidence of it.
Edit: Mnsr beat me to it!

李约瑟也提到过公元前3000年到公元前2000年小麦首次到达中国。它被认为是由黄河流域的龙山文化首先种植，在那个时期开始扩散。这可能是最古老的关于小麦在中国传播的证据。

mnsr
^^^ Hahaha.. we can consider it as a drawmatch

哈哈. .我们可以把它看作打了一场平局

stevapalooza
Well it must be the right answer if twodifferent people said it

如果两个不同的人说了同一个答案，那肯定是正确答案



The old and now partially discounted theorywas that wheat arrived with migrations of peoples along the old Silk road or aslightly further north entrance than via Tibetan plateau and I've seen there isnow some more slight evidence of this as well but the main conclusion is thatwheat almost definitely entered China via more than 1 route but was adoptedfirst and most widely where it met the needs of the people best/and or it wasnew settlers who already had wheat growing culture they brought with them.

通过前后被发现的小麦遗留得出的理论是：小麦随着旧丝绸之路或比青藏高原更北的通道被移民传播到中国。我一直看到很多可以证明这一理论的证据，由此得出结论：小麦通过不止一条途径进入中国，它被当地人种植后就广受欢迎。因为它能最高限度地满足古代人的饮食需要。小麦食用文化也被移民带到各地。

Aupmanyav
That would perhaps mean that when theAryans came to India (probably 2,000-1,500 BC), Indians were familiar withwheat.

这可能意味着当雅利安人来到印度（大概2000-1500年）时，印度人已经对小麦很熟悉了。

robto
chon said:
Two most common theories I've seen is firstthat wheat spread rapidly to Tibetan plateau from the Eurasian steppes becauseof the benefits of wheat in colder climes and was adopted more slowly fromthere as wheat processing is different and there wasn't as obvious advantagesof wheat over millet without the cooler and shorter growing season on theplateau.
Evidence shows millet was grownconcurrently with wheat for millenia afterwards in northern China though wheatgradually displaced millet in most area. I think the earliest evidence placeswheat in Tibet around 4,800 BCE.
The second theory is that wheat spreadrapidly from the Indus valley along coasts and rivers of southern Asia reachingChina from sea trade as many early remains of wheat are in Shandong which leapsover some area assuming only a northern route.
Probably wheat had more than one avenue ofarrival to China because it does seem to suddenly appear in a wide area in thehistorical records and archaeology is discovering new evidence of wheat nearlyevery year at various dig sites.
The old and now partially discounted theorywas that wheat arrived with migrations of peoples along the old Silk road or aslightly further north entrance than via Tibetan plateau and I've seen there isnow some more slight evidence of this as well but the main conclusion is that wheatalmost definitely entered China via more than 1 route but was adopted first andmost widely where it met the needs of the people best/and or it was newsettlers who already had wheat growing culture they brought with them.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information you put here. Itseems there are a lot of possible explanations regarding the arrival of wheatin China (or East Asia to be exact).
But when the presence of wheat becameubiquitous in Northern China?

谢谢你提供的信息。关于小麦到达中国（确切地说是东亚）的时间似乎有很多种可能的解释。但是什么时候小麦在中国北方变得无处不在？

Ichon
robto said:
But when the presence of wheat becameubiquitous in Northern China?
That is much more difficult to answer anddepends alot on how you understand agriculture but mono crops are much morecommon now than in the past where barely and wheat were common winter crops butnot the only crops. I've read some theories that wheat wasn't widespread until400 BCE and other people who say that is far too late and most inhabitants ofnorthern China would have been familiar with wheat as a crop by 3000 BCE evenif not growing it in wide areas.
To read more-
http://www.kaogu.cn/uploads/soft/Ch...Wheatinto China –New Data and New Issues.pdf

这就更难回答了，而且很大程度上取决于你如何理解农业。现在单粒作物比过去更常见。小麦也只是普通的冬季作物，而不是唯一被种植的作物。我读过的一些理论认为小麦直到公元前400年才被广泛传播，还有一些人认为这时间太迟了。中国北方大多数居民在公元前3000年就对小麦很熟悉，即使不是在小麦普遍被种植地区。

robto
Thanks for the link ;-)

感谢链接

mnsr
Just found this another research paper onthis subject as well.
The origins of wheat in China and potentialpathways for its introduction: A review

刚刚发现了另一篇关于这个主题的研究论文。
回顾：中国小麦的起源以及它的引入途径



The second model, the routethroughXinjiang, is supported by the presence of cultivated breadwheat on the westernfringes of the mountains bordering Xinjiang bythe 6th millennium BP, but lacksclear evidence thus far for 5th mil-lennium BP wheat cultivation withinXinjiang itself. However, withtime both models can be tested and a clearerpicture may emerg

第二种模式，即“新疆途径”。在与新疆接壤的山区西部边缘地带有种植的面包小麦遗存，但迄今为止在新疆境内缺乏明确的第5谱系米兰尼姆小麦的种植证据。然而，
随着时间的推移，这两种模型都会得到验证，更清晰的图景也可能会被揭示。

chornedsnorkack
Also notice: just because wheat wasfamiliar does not mean it was prent. For example, in Europe, the balance betweenwheat, barley and rye changed over centuries with evolution of plant varieties.

还要注意：仅仅因为你对小麦很熟悉并不意味着它很普遍。例如在欧洲随着植物品种的进化，小麦、大麦和黑麦之间的种植平衡在几个世纪被发生过巨大变化。