为什么每个人都因为一场战争而称法国为一群懦夫？ [美国媒体]

Why does everyone call France a bunch of cowards because of one war?

为什么每个人都因为一场战争而称法国为一群懦夫？



Kevin Adams, French, Hungarian Expat, thinker, and drinker
It is nice to see the high quality of many of the responses.
I’d like to point out a few things.
1.“Everyone” has no place in this insulting question. The OP does not represent “everyone”, has not spoken to “everyone”, and has not presented any corroboration with “anyone” else at all, much less “everyone”.
2.The impression that the French military is sub-par is only held by a minority of uneducated military non-professionals, mostly residing in the USA. The Americans are renowned for conveniently forgetting facts, or believing in “alternate facts”. They forget quickly that it was the French who supported and defended them in the Revolutionary War establishing their country. They forget the gifts, such as the Statue of Liberty, that France has given the US in appreciation of this shared history and sense of liberty, equality, and brotherhood. But certainly not everyone forgets this as seen in many of the answers here.
3.Historically, the French have one of the most illustrious military records of all time. If we were to uate the French military through semi-recent events, then please include the many successful campaigns, such as the French effort during the Suez War, and much more recently, the French military intervention in Mali.
4.By comparison, if we were to uate the American military in events post-WW2…. (not a complete list, just some examples)
a.Korean War — lost
b.Vietnam War — lost
c.Afghanistan — arguably lost; situation very unclear
d.Iraq — arguably lost; situation very unclear
e.Military events where America interfered leading to poor results:
i.Chile — poor situation for decades
ii.Libya — intervention in disarray; situation very unclear
iii.Syria — intervention in disarray; situation very unclear
No one would argue that the American military is ineffective or comprised of cowards, despite the less than glowing recent history of American armed interventions. History demonstrates time and again that both the French and American militaries are extremely effective when led by both capable generals and politicians. Militaries often do not get that luxury however.

很高兴看到很多高质量的回复。
我想指出几点。
1.在这个侮辱性的问题中，所谓的“每个人”并没有足够的论据支持。帖主自己并不代表“每个人”，也没有与“每个人”交谈过，也没有与“任何人”有任何佐证，更不用说“每个人”了。
2.法国军队低标准的印象只有少数未受过教育的军事非专业人员持有，他们大多居住在美国。美国人以容易忘记事实或相信“交替事实”而闻名。他们很快就忘记了，是法国人在他们的革命战争中支持和捍卫了他们的国家。他们忘记了法国送给美国的礼物，比如自由女神像，以及法国和他们分享的历史和自由、平等和兄弟情谊。但当然，并不是每个人都会忘记这一点，在这里的许多答案中都可以看到这一点。



Roger H Werner, former Geoarchaeologist, cartographer, historian at Self-Employment (1979-2015)
It’s called ethnocentrism. But not everyone calls French people a bunch of cowards. After two catastrophic world wars and two catastrophic colonial wars (Indochina and Algeria), France unlike the US actually learned something. No one really wins a war. There are only degrees of loss. Some people get rich off war but it’s questionably whether they actually won anything.
In WWI at the Battle of Verdun lasting 10 months in 1916, France the French had about 500,000 casualties including 160,000 dead. At the Second Battle of Ypres, the French lost 87,000 killed in 3 weeks. How catastrophic were the losses? Essentially an entire generation of men died or suffered crippling injuries.
In WWII, I dare anyone to tell someone who fought for the Underground they were cowards. In the Indochina War the French Army lost 77,000 killed in 8 years. The number of deaths in Algeria were horrific. And don’t even discuss cowardice when discussing the French Foreign Legion. This is one of the most elite forces in the world comparable to US Army Rangers. In 1863 in Mexico 65 legionairs faced an army of over 3,000 Mexicans. With 6 men left and no ammunition, the French commander ordered a bayonet attack. Three men survived. The Mexicans were s astounded by their bravery, they let the 3 return to French lines with a Mexican honor guard carrying the body of the French commander. French are no more cowardly than any other country. They have suffered from war more then most. French history is blood soaked.

这叫做种族中心主义。但并不是每个人都说法国人是一群懦夫。在经历了两次灾难性的世界大战和两次灾难性的殖民战争(印度支那和阿尔及利亚)之后，法国与美国不同，它实际上学到了一些东西。战争没有真正的赢家。只有损失的程度。有些人从战争中致富，但他们是否真的赢得了任何东西，这是有疑问的。

在1916年持续10个月的第一次世界大战中，法国约有50万人伤亡，其中16万人死亡。在印度支那（注：这是一个地理名词，我们国家也使用这个说法）战争中，法国军队在8年中损失了77，000人。法国在阿尔及利亚的死亡人数令人震惊。还有，不要在讨论法国外籍军团时谈论懦弱。这是世界上最精锐的部队之一，可与美国陆军突击队员相媲美。1863年，在墨西哥，65名军团战士面对抗着着3000多名墨西哥人的军队。在剩下6人、弹尽粮绝时，法国指挥官还下令上刺刀冲锋。最后只有三个人活了下来。墨西哥人对他们的勇敢感到震惊，他们让3人带着法国指挥官的遗体返回法国前线。法国人并不比其他国家的人更懦弱。他们受战争之苦比大多数人还多。法国历史都是被鲜血浸透了的。

Alexandre Ncz, lives in France
Nathaniel Gousset answered it well. It’s sometime hard as a French with a bit of interest in military History not replying stupid comments online but it’s basically a common stereotype shared in the Usa. (Spread after French president Chirac’s refusal to fight in Irak ).
If you think that:
“French are coward fighters with baguettes ”
then I highly suggest to switch off the Superbowl and to open an History book at least once in your life. (Not the one with the American presidents).
Same thing with,
“Do French tanks have 3 reverse gear?”
Actually the Renault FT was the first sucessful and efficient tank on the battlefield, without FT, no Patton training, no Abrams, end of the story.
I know the principle of a joke but I will go with my stereotypes too; we never know if the Americans really think what they say. I find some jokes really funny but it’s worrying if it becomes a common perception.
Moreover, our current army is’t one of the most active in foreign missions and very efficient when you realize the amount of budget they have. Basically, we control Africa.
France 1 : Usa 0
But I agree with them, because dishonour is the price of too much pride. We were beaten during the first part of WWII against Germans, the same way Englishs beated us in 1415 at Azincourt, beated by our blinded confidence.
What makes strong is determination and to think new strategies, new possibilities again and again adapted to the context and new weapons.


最后，我想为美法军队那些笑话正名，历史上所有为国家牺牲的法国人，从瓦尔米到凡尔登，从比尔·哈凯姆到马里。顺便说一句，如果你们当时在印度支那能够帮助我们，而不仅仅是在飞机上说声“你好”，你可能就不会在越南遭受严重的伤亡了。
结论：法国1：1美国

Greg King, studied at Jean Monnet University
Americans tend to ignore that the very first encounter with the Germans in WW2 they threw down their arms abandoned their heavy equipment ran until they could find British units to hide behind.
The French like the rest of the world was in a deep depression and simply did not have the funds to rebuild their army. The French army was poorly equipped against easily the best army in the world equipped with excellent and innovative weapons, that no other army could match. The world was in a deep depression and no one, other than Germany, the USA included, did not have the funds to have a war ready standing army. At the beginning of WW2 the USA had WW1 weapons, training and equipment, the American army at the beginning of the war was vastly different from the American military at the end of the war.
The British had been rolled back to Calais and only evacuated with the help of the French. The French also made some catastrophic strategic decisions that in hindsight were terrible . Namely the Maginot Line would protect France and that large scale troop movements could not be made through the Ardenne .
If American forces had been in France at the start of WW2 the Germans would have walked right over the top of them. The Americans did not have the best weapons through most of the war and the excellent ones were not developed until the end of the war. The vastly inferior Sherman tank was successful because the Americans could bring huge quantities to the battlefield however that production capacity wasnt available at the beginning of the war. The Germans had the most recent battle experience in Spain of the combatants. To suggest that American forces would have stopped the Germans as the French didnt is a pure fantasy

美国人往往忽视了二战中当他们第一次遇到德国人时，他们放下了武器，放弃了重型装备，直到他们找到英国部队并躲在其后面。
和世界其他国家一样，当时的法国人也陷入了严重的萧条之中，他们根本没有足够的资金来重建他们的军队。法国军队的装备很差，对上配备着任何其他军队都比不上的优秀和创新的武器的世界上最好的军队，当然一碰即溃。世界正处于深度萧条之中，除了德国(包括美国)以外，没有人没有足够的资金来组建一支随时准备好的常备军。二战伊始，美国军队用的也是第一次世界大战的武器、训练和装备，但战争开始时的美军与战争结束时的美军已经大不相同。

英国人被推回加莱，只有在法国人的帮助下才撤离。法国也做出了一些灾难性的战略决定，事后看来是可怕的。那就是认为马奇诺防线将保护法国，敌方的大规模军队调动是无法通过阿登山脉的。
如果美军在二战伊始就驻扎在法国，那他们也不是德军的对手。在战争的大部分时间里，美国人都没有最好的武器，而优秀的武器直到战争结束才得到发展。不怎么样的谢尔曼坦克是成功的，因为美国人可以把其大量带到战场上，然而，在战争开始的时候，根本没有那么大的生产力。德国一直打到了西班牙。说美国军队不会像法国人那样，会阻止德国人是纯粹的幻想

Alexey Tereshchenko, loves France and knows it wel
Because most people (it is an exaggeration to say everyone) have short memory. People just don’t remember what was there before the World War 2.
For centuries and centuries, France had been the leading power in Europe. It had been the strongest in 1245 under Saint Louis, in 1345 under John the Good, in 1445 under Charles VII, in 1545 under Francis I, in 1645 under Mazarini, in 1745 under Louis XV, in 1845 under Louis Philippe. But most people remember only 1945.
Of course, France had its portion of defeats - Crécy in 1346, Poitiers in 1356, Azincourt in 1415, Pavia in 1525, Waterloo in 1815, Sedan in 1870 to name just a few most famous. But these defeats became that famous exactly because defeating the French was considered very difficult if not impossible. Of course, France would sometimes lose its dominant place to England, Spain or Burgundy, but only to rise from the ashes in new glory, similarly to the phoenix bird.
By the way, prior to German reunification most people (I would not say everyone) believed that while French are great warriors, Germany is a land of weird philosophers and musicians, the kindest people in the world (according to the British author Jerome K. Jerome), totally incapable of real warfare. To put it in the words of one Leo Tolstoy’s character:


波拿巴出生时嘴里就叼着一把银匙。他有着优秀的士兵。此外，他开始攻打德国人——只有最游手好闲的人才打不过德国人。自从世界开始，每个人都打败过德国人。而德国人他们谁也不打——除了彼此。而他（波拿巴），却以与他们（德国人）作斗争而享有盛誉。

Nathaniel Gousset, Frenchman, graduated in history and geography.
Because it is easy when you have a sea or ocean to protect you from invasion to laugh at people that are making peace after being beaten on the field then seeing their territory occupied, their towns bombed and their famillies sent into exodus.
France win some wars and lost somes. Our history is full on near constant warfare against our european neighbourgh, losing a war is not something we never faced. Having our national territory invaded and occupied too.
France was quickly beaten in WW2 but it fight valiantly even in defeat and suffer tremendous losses both civilians and military before asking for a truce.
France didn’t act cowardly during WW2, it acted foolishly and it paid the price for the allies bad battle plan. UK managed to flee and withdrawn its troops and planes. France stand and tried to fight but was defeated and occupied.
UK and USA like to laugth at France performance because they aren’t too proud of their own actions in that period. Without the Channel, Great Britain would have been conquered as fast as France was and would have had to conclude the same humiliating peace. US performance during the initial stage of WW2 was abysmal and very often in Italy, French troups outperformed US one. And they got caught their pants down at Pearl Harbour in one of the most humiliating battle in naval war history.

因为当你有海洋来保护你不被入侵时，你就很容易嘲笑那些经历过在战场上被殴打、然后看着他们的领土被占领、他们的城镇遭到轰炸、他们的家人大批逃亡之后正在维护和平的人。
法国赢得过一些战争，也输掉过一些。我们的历史充满了对我们欧洲邻国的几乎持续不断的战争，输掉一场战争不是我们从未面对过的。更别说我们的领土也被侵占过。

法国在第二次世界大战中被迅速击败，但是，即使在失败的情况下，它也勇敢地战斗，在要求休战之前，它的平民和军队都遭受了巨大的损失。二战期间，法国并没有懦弱，而是愚蠢地行动，为盟军糟糕的作战计划付出了代价。英国设法逃离并撤出了其部队和飞机。法国挺身而出，试图战斗，但被打败和占领。



Lee McAuliffe Rambo, Writer, editor, writing coach
I’m a francophile, but I well understand this misperception.
The Second World War was not a trivial conflict, as your “one war” characterization implies. It was the deadliest military conflict in history in absolute terms of total casualties. Over 60 million people were killed — about three percent of the 1940 world population, an estimated 2.3 billion.
The invasion of Normandy was the first successful opposed landing across the Channel in 800 years. It led to the loss of the German position in most of France and shortened the conflict between the Germans and the Soviets on the Eastern Front. This came at a cost of over 8,000 Allied casualties.
There were, of course, many legitimate, complex and strategic reasons for France’s capitulation to the Germans. Unfortunately, to the multitudes touched by the Allies’ courage and sacrifice, these reasons often smack of Continental intellectualizing and paralysis by analysis.
The U.S., of course, has the opposite problem. Chacun a son gout.

我是个讲法语的人，但我很理解这种误解。第二次世界大战并不是一场琐碎的冲突，正如你的“一战”特征所暗示的那样。这是历史上伤亡人数最多的军事冲突。超过6000万人丧生，约占1940年世界大约23亿人口的3%。
诺曼底登陆是800年来第一次成功地越过英吉利海峡的登陆。这导致了德国在法国大部分地区的地位丧失，并缩短了德国和苏联在东部前线的冲突。这是以8 000多名盟军伤亡为代价的。



George Géal-Killy
It's not everyone. It's basically a made in USA narrative that spreads in English speaking countries.
You know how good the Americans are at History and Geography right? They are already struggling with their own. You know their love for black or white oversimplification? You are with us or against us. You know how attached to facts they are? They invented anti intellectualism, things like Creationism and the other one stipulating that a civilisation is living in the center of the Earth (sorry I forgot the name) are legal, even in schools. So yeah, the French are cowards because they lost WWII.
The real question would be, how many countries in this world still got a caricatural, romanticized image of war?

不是每个人。这种印象基本上是美国制造的，在英语国家流传开来。你知道美国人在历史和地理方面有多“好”，对吗？他们都已经开始内斗了。你知道他们有多喜欢把一个问题非黑即白简单化吧？“你要么支持我们要么就是反对我们。”你知道他们有多执着于事实吧？他们发明了反智主义，像造物论和另一个规定文明生活在地球中心的东西(抱歉我忘了名字)在他们那里是合法的，甚至在学校里教学也是合法的。所以是的，“法国人是懦夫，因为他们输了第二次世界大战”。

Anonymous
Not just one war, there was also Algeria and Vietnam.
Assuming the “one war” refers to WWII, France was probably the biggest underachiever. It had received large reparations from Germany due to the Treaty of Versailles and was better equipped yet lost in lopsided fashion along with British troops leading to what’s considered the most successful British/French operation, an evacuation at Dunkirk.
Before that, two of the most famous French military commanders are Napoleon Bonaparte, an Italian immigrant, and Joan of Arc, a teenage girl who’s part legend. One might need to go back to Charlesmagne for the next accomplished French commander.

不仅仅是一场战争，还有阿尔及利亚和越南。
假设“一次战争”指的是第二次世界大战，法国也可能是世界军事史上最差的差生。由于“凡尔赛条约”，它得到了德国的大量赔偿，装备也更好。然而除了由英国主导的被称为最成功的英法行动的敦刻尔克大撤退，法军彻底迷失了方向。
在此之前，法国最着名的两名军事指挥官是意大利移民拿破仑·波拿巴和传奇人物少女圣女贞德。再往上追溯可能就要追溯到查理曼大帝了（查理曼大帝(742-814，世称 Charles the Great或Charles I, 768-814为法兰克王，800-814为西罗马帝国皇帝）。

Gérard Briais, Americanophile but the French way
Do not waste your time answering for the French.
The real basis of our thinking is this :
Two thousand years of incessant wars have taught us that it is better to send the others to get killed in your place.
To be treated as cowards by fools is a refined pleasure…

不要浪费时间为法国人说话。
我们思想的基础是：
两千年不断的战争告诉我们，最好派其他人代替你去死。
被傻瓜们看作是懦夫是一种优雅的快乐…



Nikita Rogozin, Analyst at Information Security
It is just a joke, really. Everybody knows that the French are one of the best fighters in Europe historically.

这只是个玩笑，真的。每个人都知道法国人是欧洲历史上最好的战士之一。