中国的印度洋计划无疑是对印度的遏制。 [美国媒体]

China’s Indian Ocean plans are decidedly anti-India

中国的印度洋计划无疑是对印度的遏制



ThatEastAfricanguy
It's strange to me that India still hasn't managed to unquestionably dominate the Sub continent.
Why do they even bother with this "contain China" rhetoric when is Pakistan still a problem 70 years later?

我觉得很奇怪，印度直到今天为止都没能成功地掌控南亚次大陆，巴基斯坦对印度来说仍然是一个大问题。
那么印度人为什么还要为“遏制中国”费心费力呢?

AkbarTheKanjar
First of all, it's rather difficult to dominate a region unquestionably. China doesn't dominate its sphere, see Taiwan, Vietnam (and to lesser extent, Bhutan and Nepal). Russia doesn't dominate its sphere unquestionably, see Poland, Finland and Ukraine (hence conflict). US doesn't unquestionably dominate its sphere, see Cuba.

首先，要完全统治一个地区是相当困难的。
中国并不能主宰自己势力范围内的一切，比如台湾、越南(以及不丹和尼泊尔)。
俄罗斯也不能主宰自己势力范围内的一切，比如波兰、芬兰和乌克兰。
美国也不能主宰它势力范围内的一切，比如古巴。

Pretty rare to dominate one's entire region "unquestionably". There's always someone that's a pin in the bum. Militarily, India unquestionably dominates the subcontinent.

想要完全统治一个地区是相当不容易的，因为总有刺头跳出来和你对着干，但如果只是着眼于军事方面，印度毫无疑问统治着南亚次大陆。

Secondly, it's not "contain China", it's "counter China". No one can "contain China", it's not feasible and would be ludicrous. It's to counter it.

其次，印度不是“遏制中国”，只是“针对中国”，没有人能“遏制中国”，这是行不通的，也是可笑的。

Thirdly, Provided the Indian Navy carries on with its modernisation drive, the Indian Ocean Region won't be a problem wrt China. It's a bit difficult to start challenging a nation in their own backyard (tremendous geographic advantage for India). On top of that, they're a tad bit busy with getting boxed in East of the Malacca Straits.

第三，只要印度海军继续推进现代化，就不需要担心中国在印度洋上的影响力。
毕竟中国想要在印度的后院（印度洋）挑战印度还是有些困难的(印度拥有巨大的地理优势)。
最重要的是，马六甲海峡东部已经被（美国）包围了，这才是中国人要应对的问题。

Fourthly, Indians have got this habit that whenever someone sneezes across the border, it's an issue for them AKA "dhoti shivering". Take for example the Maldives, there was real "dhoti shivering" over what was going on in the Maldives, i.e. will there be a naval base against India? Maldives wants India to take their helicopters back! etc. etc. In the end, it came to nothing. Similar with Bhutan, the Chinese Vice FM visits Bhutan for the annual border talks and there is media talk of "Bhutan separating from India" or "Rare visit to Bhutan as China woos the Bhutanese" when in reality? Nothing happened. Same story with Nepal and Sri Lanka. It's the same panicky, inaccurate nonsense.

印度人有这样一个习惯，每当有人在边境打喷嚏时，他们也会跟着打喷嚏，以马尔代夫为例。
印度人害怕中国在马尔代夫建立针对印度的海军基地，而且马尔代夫还要求印度把他们的直升飞机撤走，但最后呢，什么也没发生。
不丹也一样，中国外交部副部长访问不丹，并参加年度边界谈判，印度媒体就开始大肆渲染：“不丹与印度分离”或“中国向不丹人民示好”，但事实并非如此。
尼泊尔和斯里兰卡也是如此，印度媒体总是用不准确的胡言乱语来煽动恐慌。

Ali_Safdari
Nothing came out of it because the Indian-backed candidate won over the China-backed candidate.And if you’re going to imply that New Delhi should ignore major gains in influence by the Chinese within the IOR; you need to reconnect with reality and get off your high horse.

马尔代夫之所以什么事也没有发生，那是因为印度支持的候选人战胜了中国支持的候选人，中国人在印度洋地区的影响力正在大幅度提升，你需要放下架子，重新认清现实。

LordBlimblah
Because China helped Pakistan get nuclear weapons. The same way they helped North Korea get nuclear weapons. This is Chinas go to strategy. If a country that China considers an adversary gets split into 2 countries, China will arm the weaker of the two to prevent the original country from ever reforming.This is exactly why we need to arm Taiwan with nuclear

中国帮助巴基斯坦获得核武器。就像他们帮助朝鲜获得核武器一样。这是中国的战略。
如果一个被中国视为敌人的国家分裂成两个国家，中国将武装这两个国家中较弱的一个。这也正是我们需要用核武器武装台湾的原因

sexy_balloon
Not sure what kind of fantasy land you live in to think that anyone (much less India) can supply Taiwan with nukes.
US would never allow it. Back when there were more hostilities between Taiwan and china in the 70s, Taiwan seriously looked into nuclear research. US all but forbade it because it didn't want to escalate the tension with china
china has already publicly stated that doing so is a cause for war

你真是张口就来，以为什么阿猫阿狗(更不用说印度)都能向台湾提供核武器，就算你想提供，美国也会站出来坚决反对。
70年代，当台湾和中国大陆之间的敌对状态加剧时，台湾曾认真进行过核研究，但最后被美国制止了，因为美国不想加剧与中国的紧张关系。
而且中国已经公开表示，给台湾提供核武器就是宣战行为。

Taiwanese people don't want it because most of them have no desire to antagonize china (as reinforced by recent municipal election results)
Taiwanese technology is leaps and bounds above India, if they actually wanted it they could've manufactured it themselves probably in months

台湾人也不希望有核武器，因为他们大多数人不想与大陆对抗(最近台湾的市级选举结果更是强化了这一点)
台湾的技术已经远远超过了印度，如果他们真的想要核武器的话，他们可以在几个月内自己制造出来

BeforeAfterDawn
Prove China armed Pakistan and North Korea. Definitively, not circumstantial and not anyone's opinion. Has the US said anything, what about UN? Or any major powers in the world.
No one can debate based on what you believe in, what we can do is argue facts, and none of what you said is based on it.

请拿出证据证明中国给朝鲜和巴基斯坦提供了核武器，如果中国真的提供了，为什么美国不吭声，联合国不吭声，世界上任何一个国家都没有提起这件事？
我们要根据事实进行辩论，而你所说的一切并不基于事实。

i_already_forgot
The Indians have said publicly they pursued nuclear weapons because the Chinese got nuclear weapons. Of course, that probably wasn't the real reason.
But nevertheless, an opportunity to arose from that to pin down India using Pakistan as a proxy, so they took it.

印度曾公开表示，他们追求核武器是因为中国拥有核武器。当然，这可能只是一个借口。
话虽如此，但中国人还是抓住了一个机会，利用巴基斯坦作为代理人来压制印度，所以他们成功了。

fekahua
Given that the nuclear weapons program started after the loss of the 1962 war - I think Indians have a fair bit of paranoia about China. If Pakistan had mobilized and joined the fray in that conflict - India would likely not exist as the same country - China was unwilling to lodge a full-scale invasion into India, but Pakistan could have probably defeated the Indian army in Kashmir and cut off the north-east of India via the Doklam Chicken's Neck.

鉴于印度的核武器项目是在1962年，中印战争失败后启动的，我认为印度人对中国有点偏执。
如果当时巴基斯坦也加入了战局,那么印度今天什么样就难说了。
虽然中国不会全面入侵印度,但巴基斯坦有可能会攻占克什米尔地区并掐断印度东北邦的狭窄通道。

-ilm-
Several countries were involved in some way in the program including Niger, Libya and Saudi Arabia. Shows Pakistan would have obtained a bomb with or without China.

一些国家以某种方式参与了巴基斯坦的核计划，包括尼日尔、利比亚和沙特阿拉伯。这表明无论有没有中国，巴基斯坦都能获得核弹。

1by1is3
Because India does not want to settle the Kashmir dispute with Pakistan and establish peaceful relations. The bad blood of partition on ideological grounds is such that it would be political suicide for any Indian government to resolve the issue, so they would rather keep hundreds of thousands of troops to subjugate the local population that mostly either wants independence or want to join Pakistan.

印度不想与巴基斯坦解决克什米尔争端，建立和平关系。
因为和平解决争端意味着印巴分治克什米尔地区，这对任何一个印度政府来说都是政治自杀，所以他们宁愿保留数十万军队来镇压当地民众，这些民众大多要么希望独立，要么希望加入巴基斯坦。

fekahua
Disputes are resolved between friendly nations, not enemy states. Enmity converts it into an issue of national pride and neither side can be seen conceding to an enemy state. Pakistan has constantly neglected attempting friendly relations with India as a path to resolve Kashmir until the last 3 months of 2018, and has attempted to take it by force - what 4 times now?, that's without counting the likely hundreds of cross border incursions since the 80s.
Even when they claim to want peace they keep blabbering about Kashmir instead of actually offering India anything valuable in return.

只有友好国家之间才能解决争端，敌对国家会在争端中加入民族自豪感的因素，使得任何一方都不能向敌国妥协。
直到2018年最后3个月，巴基斯坦一直忽视试图与印度建立友好关系，并试图以武力解决克什米尔问题——好像光军事行动就已经四次了?这还不包括自80年代以来可能发生的数百起越境入侵事件。
即使巴基斯坦声称想要和平，但他们仍然喋喋不休地谈论克什米尔问题，而不是向印度提供任何有价值的信息。

1by1is3
Doesn't matter, Pakistan has nukes and the ability to deliver them resulting in total annihilation of both countries so military imbalance does not matter. The only option IS peace and the negotiating table, otherwise the alternative is that Pakistan starts funding Kashmiri separatists again after Afghanistan is dealt with, resulting in a slow bleed for India. And there is very little India could do about it given that China is also involved on the Pakistani side now.

没关系，巴基斯坦有核武器，有能力发射核武器，最终的结局一定是两败俱伤，所以军事平不平衡不重要。
印巴唯一的选择是和平与谈判，巴基斯坦可以在解决阿富汗问题后，再次开始资助克什米尔分裂分子，导致印度慢慢流血。
考虑到中国现在也站在巴基斯坦一边，印度对此无能为力。

Ali_Safdari
After the Doklam incident, the Indian administration has made significant efforts to reset their relationship with Beijing.
China isn’t “reciprocating India’s gestures”of goodwill.
Despite this, it would seem that China hasn’t eased up it’s stance on Indian issues and has continued to deepen it’s military ties with Islamabad which it sees as “balancer against India”; highlighted by the frigates being made for the Pakistani Navy in China.

在洞朗问题发生后，印度政府为重启与北京的关系做出了重大努力，而中国没有回应印度的善意姿态。
中国似乎也没有放松对印度的立场，而是继续深化巴基斯坦的军事关系，并将巴基斯坦视为“制衡印度的力量”;特别是中国还为巴基斯坦海军制造护卫舰。

BeforeAfterDawn
China has its own interests, it is not going to be held hostage to good will gestures that effectively amount to just talk.
China is a major military equipment supplier, for decades now. China doesn't export to spite or contain India, but rather these deals stand on its own.

中国有自己的利益，他不会因为别人说了两句好话，就被道德挟持。因为其他国家口头上的善意实际上毫无价值。
几十年来，中国一直是世界上主要的军事装备供应国。中国出口武器并不针对印度，也不是为了遏制印度，中国只是做买卖罢了。

Any "good will" here is more the immaturity of the Indian military industrial complex than any substantial gesture. It is further evident that India has partaken in many tenders but have walked away with no orders of note.
So I ask you, what concrete good will gesture has India actually given, other than rhetoric and more rhetoric.Pakistan helped China in 72 to make sure the Nixon visit happened, so what, Pakistan is China's ally

印度之所以对中国释放“善意”，更多的是源于印度对自身不成熟的军事工业的无奈，更不要说印度并没有给予中国任何实质上的东西。
1972年，巴基斯坦帮助中国确保尼克松访华，所以，巴基斯坦是中国的盟友
生活中，很多印度商人拿到投标后，在没有任何留言的情况下就（卷款）跑路了
所以我问你，除了花言巧语和更多的花言巧语之外，印度还做出了什么具体的善意姿态。

ItsYourScarf
The Chinese frigates for Pakistan Navy are likely just a pre-emptive defensive move to protect its economic interests, particularly Gwadar as its primary trade hub with Africa via the CPEC corridor.

中国为巴基斯坦海军建造护卫舰，可能只是为了保护其经济利益而采取的先发制人的防御行动，尤其是保护中巴经济走廊与非洲贸易枢纽——瓜达尔港