为什么中印增长如此快速？国家投资 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：布拉格鸽子蛋-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



BEIJING — The world’s two fastest growing major economies are China and India.

北京--世界上增长最快的两大经济体是中国和印度。

Both countries demonstrate a common pattern of development different from that of the slowly growing West. Rapidly growing state investment plays a significant role in China and India’s economic expansion while private investment is either growing very slowly or declining. In contrast the slowly growing Western economies rely on private investment with no rapid growth of state investment.

这两个国家展示了一种不同于缓慢增长的西方国家的共通发展模式。在中国和印度的经济扩张中，快速增长的国家投资起到了重要的作用，而私人投资则增长缓慢或下降。相反，缓慢增长的西方经济体主要依靠私人投资，缺乏快速增长的国家投资。

-------------译者：布拉格鸽子蛋-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

This economic reality is crucial for China’s practical economic policy as the country seeks to achieve its goal of a “moderately prosperous society“ by 2020 and a “high income economy” by World Bank standards shortly thereafter.

这一经济现实对中国的经济政策至关重要，因为中国致力于实现她的目标：在2020年达到“小康社会”和不久后达到世界银行标准的“高收入经济体”。

But the facts of this global economic trend are also crucial for economic theory and analysis. According to the dogmas of “neo-liberalism” and the “Washington Consensus” private investment is supposed to be “good” while state investment is supposed to be “bad.” The facts show the exact opposite trend is occurring.

但这一全球经济趋势的事实对经济理论和分析来说也是至关重要的。根据“新自由主义”和“华盛顿共识”的信条，私人投资被认为是“好的”，而国家投资被认为是“坏的”。但事与愿违。


-------------译者：生活中的化学-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Alan Smithee R26; Aug 29 2016 9:07pm 
Private interests that want to make money from the US government prevents state investment. It has nothing to do with which way is better. When I was a kid and watch movies and TV shows about the military the soldiers took care of themselves. They cooked and cleaned for themselves because that was suppose to build character. Not today. Private corporations like Haliburton do all that now because they lobbied the US government to privatize it just so they can make big money for huge contracts by hiring minimum wage workers to do all the work.

私人只对从美国政府那挣钱感兴趣，阻挠了国家投资。这和哪一种方式更好无关。当我还是一名孩子，我看有关军队的电影和电视节目，里面的士兵都是自己照顾自己。他们自己烧饭、打扫卫生，因为那是在塑造性格。不像今天。民营企业如哈里伯顿公司现在做所有的事情因为他们游说美国政府私有化它正是如此他们可以通过雇用最低工资的工人来做所有的工作，为大合同赚大钱。

Ash Bhaga R26; Chicago Illinois R26; Aug 29 2016 9:54pm
Thats an apples and oranges comparison. India and China still have a long way to go in revamping their infrastructure to match Western levels so they're still at the point where improving tracks of infrastructure legitamitely facilitate increased movement of goods and people.

那是一个苹果和橙子的比较。印度和中国仍然有很长的一段路来更新他们的基础设施使之与西方水平相同所以他们仍处于合理地改善基础设施的路线这一点来帮助增加的货物与人们的移动

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Sherm Chiu R26; CEO at Alpha Bay Builders R26; Aug 29 2016 10:48pm 
Have you been to China? In many ways infrastructure in China is ahead of Western countries including US.

你去过中国吗？中国的基础设施在许多方面都比西方国家强，包括美国。

Sherm Chiu R26; CEO at Alpha Bay Builders R26; Aug 29 2016 10:54pm 
Just take a look at the photo above. You won't see that in US for another 20 or 40 years.

看看文章中所附的照片。在未来20年或者40年内美国都无法取得那样的成就。

Ash Bhaga R26; Chicago Illinois R26; Aug 29 2016 11:13pm 
Sherm Chiu I do agree with you China's rail and and highways are impressive and massive but there are still sections of China That can benefit from more and that don't have advanced infrastructure investing in those areas will still get you more returns. The West for the most part needs to repair ailing infrastructure not build new all together except in a few key areas.

Sherm Chiu我同意你关于中国的铁路的观点，并且高速公路（也）令人印象深刻的巨大，但是中国还有些地方没有这些先进的基建设施，所以在这些领域投资将带来更多的收益。西方的大部分地区需要去修复衰败的基础设施，而不是同时建立新的（基础设施），除了一些关键领域。

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Ash Bhaga R26; Chicago Illinois R26; Aug 30 2016 7:22am
Sherm Chiu
My main point is infrastructure[微软用户1]  connecting Shanghai to Beijing is gonna be worth it connecting village x to y in the western provinces will probably not be worth it. The key area of infrastructure America should Upgrade I believe is internet infrastructure. Imagine every household getting 1gbps internet and 5g rolling around
 
我主要的看法是，连接上海与北京的基础设施是值得的，连接西部省份的某两个村的基础设施可能就不值得。在美国的基础设施中，应该升级的关键领域，我认为是网络设施。想象一下，每个家庭都有1gbps和5g左右滚动的网络。
 
Cornell Hessing R26; President at Axis Consulting Group R26; Aug 30 2016 10:33am 
Economic growth begats[微软用户2]  economic opportunity. Opportunity begats infrastructure growth. Change is coming...rapidly. Particularly looking at India's progress since independance the road ahead is far less challenging than it would appear to most.

经济增长产生经济机会，经济机会导致基础设施增长。改变，会来得很快。尤其是看印度自独立以来的进步，其前进道路的挑战难度远比看上去的低。
（begats?=begets; independance?=independence）
 
Ash Bhaga R26; Chicago Illinois R26; Aug 30 2016 11:04am 
Cornell Hessing
I agree life is definitely not as hard as my parent's generation is. Everything is improving literacy[微软用户3]  sanitation[微软用户4]  infrastructure and technology each improvement in one area improves the ability to improve the other.

我认同，生活绝对没有我们父辈时艰难。所有事物都在进步，文盲程度、环境卫生、基础设施和科技。在单一领域的每个进步都提高了其他领域进步的可能性。
 
Kevin Walker R26; Vancouver British Columbia R26; Aug 30 2016 1:37pm 
Sherm Chiu you will never see it in the US because it has never been nor will ever be worth the investment.

Sherm Chiu你永远不会在美国看到它，因为这从来不曾是亦永远不会是值得投资的。

-------------译者：生活中的化学-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Ds Mond R26; Aug 29 2016 10:12pm 
The best way to stimulate economic growth according to a country wishes is to ignore the advices of western economists especially the US. China has been consistently ignoring US advices in the last 30 - 40 years thats why its so strong now in almost every aspects of its economy and technological achievements except political rights of course. Western experts worry wasps and economic doomsayers have been predicting the downfall of China ever since. Simply because Chinese do not have the kind of freedom of expresiion the West have and therefore China is doomed. All of us knows that this is nonsense but they are still at it even though China had ploughed far ahead. For instance China had leapfrogged plastic money 3G communication systems and many others .. to create an advance service economy yet these were only recently reported in the media - how backdated the latter are ?? India is a strong democracy and started following the achiements of China only recently hence the strong economic growth figures from a much smaller base. In less than one generation from now and so long India and China do not destabilize each other or be destabilized by US they will be the future economic pillars of the world.

最好的方法来根据一个国家的愿望刺激经济增长是忽略西方经济学家们的建议，特别是美国。中国在过去30-40年里持续忽视美国建议，所以她现在在她几乎所有经济和科技成就领域除了政治权利外这么的强大。西方专家担心美国主流阶层和经济预言者自那以后一直在预测中国的没落。仅仅是因为中国没有西方的那种自由的表达，因此中国难逃一死。我们都知道这是无稽之谈，但他们仍然干个不停即使中国已经破浪前行且遥遥领先。例如中国已经越过信用卡、3G通信系统和许多其他的事物...来创建一个先进服务型经济但是这些只是最近被媒体报道——后者是多么的后知后觉啊？？印度是一个强大的民主国家并最近才开始跟随中国的成就因此强劲的经济增长指数是从一个更小的基础算的。从现在不到一代人的时间里只要印度和中国不破坏对方或是被美国破坏政府的稳定，他们将成为世界未来的经济支柱。

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Klevis Ymeri R26; Jacobs University Bremen R26; Aug 30 2016 2:33pm
Ignore the advice of Western economists? Lol. Do you have economists that believe in non free market economy? Ou you tried that. It didn't go so well until you tried a little bit of capitalism. The Chinese economy is not at an advanced enough level where it can compare to the Western rate of growth. Western European countries Japan South Korea Singapore etc have experienced growth rates of 8-10% after WW2 until they caught up. It is a very uninformed opinion to compare growth rates of economies in different stages of developement. I have a sheep. Next year this sheep will give birth to a lamb. Wow. I achieved a 100% growth rate. Beat that!

忽略西方经济学家的建议？哈哈，你们有信奉非自由市场经济的经济学家么？哦你试过了。它运行得不太灵光，直到你尝试了一丁点资本主义。中国现在还不是发达经济体，所以中国在经济增长率上和西方没有可比性。二战后，西欧国家、日本、韩国、新加坡等都经历了增长率8-10%的时代，直到他们迎头赶上。拿不同发展阶段的经济增长率来比较，是一个非常无知的做法。我有一只羊。明年这只羊要生一只羊羔。哇，我实现了100%的增长率。屌爆了！

-------------译者：hommechinois-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Erik Dravnieks R26; Ottawa Ontario R26; Aug 31 2016 7:31am
Kevin Walker : Yah and guess who has a "hugest" debt the US of A... China is 11th has 1/17th the debt of the US of A and India is ranked 22nd... hmm yah debt debt debt indeed...

@Kevin walker: 嗯，猜猜谁是美狗最大债主。。。中国排在11名，占1/17，印度排22名。。。嗯，确实好多债呵呵


Sherm Chiu R26; CEO at Alpha Bay Builders R26; Aug 29 2016 10:52pm 
Why do people group China and India tegother? China is way ahead and the gap is growing wider. Much of India's GDP growth can be attributed to population growth.

胃肾把中印搅一起？兔子摇摇领先，且事业线还不断胀大中。阿三鸡的屁增长很大部分龟公于其人口增长。

Ryan Purvis R26; Aug 30 2016 10:30am 
The gap between rich and poor is greater in China than it is in India. India is the only BRIC nation currently doing well.

兔子贫富差比三锅多老多了。三锅是现在是块最牛逼的砖。

Shi Wei R26; Aug 30 2016 2:50pm
Ryan Purvis Indian's billion dollar house (with closer to 400 house keepers) fit for a man is right next to slum.

@R：三锅亿万豪宅（养着400家奴）隔壁就是贫民哭。

-------------译者：mifantasy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Mark Nishihama R26; CMCC R26; Aug 29 2016 11:05pm 
John Ross the writer of this article failed to note that private investment is STILL good. American companies are still doing well and they are still investing. However they are investing overseas - they are setting up shop in third world countries and not back home. Sure China and India are doing "well" via state investment. But the problem here is that private investments in those countries are low as stated by John. With labor being so cheap there private investments should be booming. If they are not booming now then they definitely will not be when labor costs start to rise and when state investments start to shrink. When that happens both China and India will be in deep trouble. Maybe Protectionism which is perceived to be a taboo is a good idea to try and see if it can reverse the economic decline? Until we try no one can be sure of the outcome. Look at the Brexit. People predicted major fallouts but Britain is actually doing well.

这篇文章的作者John Ross似乎忘了应该提一下私人投资依然很热。美国企业的表现依然很好而且他们仍在坚持投资。不过他们只投资海外市场，他们不断的在第三世界开设新的商店而不是回自己的国家。依靠国家投资，中国和印度起码在表面上是表现很不错的。但是现在问题是在那些国家，私人投资的量就像John提到的那样低。按理说劳动成本这么低的条件下私人投资应该是爆炸式增长的，如果他们现在没有增长，当劳动成本上升或者国家投资缩减后私人投资就更不可能繁荣起来。当那些情况发生后中国和印度都将会有大麻烦。也许原先被认为是禁忌的保护主义可以试一下，也许它能扭转经济衰退局面呢？如果我们不试一试没人可以知道结果会怎样。看看英国脱欧吧，人们都预测英国会有大麻烦，但是现在看来他们表现的还不赖。

-------------译者：mifantasy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Winston Hale R26; Vanderbilt University R26; Aug 29 2016 11:12pm 
The US only has state owned banks in North Dakota. We don't have much state investment because we don't have many state-owned banks. Until the US has a nationwide public banking system and issues its money debt free without borrowing from private banks we won't have as fast economic development. We're too busy supporting a Wall Street tapeworm.

整个美国只有在北达科他州有几个国有银行，我们之所以没有太多政府投资是因为我们没有很多国有银行。直到美国拥有了一个全国范围内的公立银行体系并且声明它的贷款是完全免息并且不需要从私有银行借钱，我们的经济增长才会提速。我们的政府整天忙着支持华尔街的蛀虫。

Oliver Lu R26; New York New York R26; Aug 30 2016 5:00am 
Yes I think this might be the only way to really improve the financial structure of U.S. society is this (destroy the oligopoly on credit held by big banks).

同意，我认为这是唯一的方法来真正提高美国的金融结构（摧毁大型银行的信贷垄断体系）

Mark McNeal R26; University of Waterloo R26; Aug 31 2016 7:20am
Very good analogy it seems that every time a brave new president tries to rid the US of the Federal Reserve they end up dead. Start with getting rid of the lobbiests and influences from big business. Then you might have a more democratic government but I truly think it's almost too late.

这是非常好的比喻。似乎每一任总共上任时都会尝试摆脱美联储但是都失败了。现在行动起来摆脱说客和大公司的控制，然后你就可以拥有一个更民主的政府了，但是（即使这样）我认为现在已经有点晚了。

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John Deckenbach R26; Owner at Self-Employed R26; Aug 30 2016 1:01am 
Thats socialism...we cant do that or Karl Marx will join with satan and make us all athiests!

那是社会主义。我们不能那么干，不然Karl Marx会和撒旦结合，把我们都变成无神论者。

Cornell Hessing R26; President at Axis Consulting Group R26; Aug 30 2016 10:42am
Are you implying that Marx would take issue with such socialist policies?

你是在暗示马克思会不认同这些社会主义政策吗？

Michael Rowles R26; Aug 30 2016 2:58am
Could it be that the interest rates are too low in the US? Why would people invest with only a 3.8%gain when they can spend money on other things and make more. Also their population density is much higher so it's cheaper to effect more people at once.

是不是因为美国银行业的存款利率太低了呢？如果其他投资方式可以赚更多钱，那人们为什么要将钱投在银行只赚3.8%呢？而且他们的人口密度比我们的高度哦了，他们可以用更低的成本影响更多的人。

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Marie Arouet R26; Houston Texas R26; Aug 30 2016 5:51am
The best managed and the worst managed states all lumped up in one statement agian.

世界上管理得最好的国家（中国）和管理得最糟的国家（印度）又被塞进同一个句子里了。

Michael Lim R26; Metuchen New Jersey R26; Aug 30 2016 6:08am
A fiscally responsible government is able to spur the country's growth through state investment. China is decades ahead of the likes of the US Canada and the UK in doing that. That is mainly because we all know that the US Canada and the UK spend frivolously rather than "invest" in their respective countries.

一个财政上负责任的政府能够通过国家投资来刺激本国的经济增长。在这些举措上，中国要比美国、加拿大和英国之流领先数十年。美国、加拿大和英国把开支浪费在无谓的事物上，而不是用于各自国内的投资。

Doug Hooper R26; SAIT R26; Aug 30 2016 7:41am 
I thought it was cheap labour combined with poor labour laws and a dismissing the environment. Those countries may be growing fast but who wants to live there?

我认为中印经济的快速增长是缘于他们廉价的劳动力、不完善的劳工法和对环境保护的漠视。他们的经济也许会快速发展，但是有谁会想要住在那些国家呢？

-------------译者：mifantasy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Ryan Purvis R26; Aug 30 2016 10:28am 
2 Billion people want to live there.

20亿的人想要到那里生活

Cornell Hessing R26; President at Axis Consulting Group R26; Aug 30 2016 10:40am 
Ummm..you realize half the world's population live in those two countries right? And the more money you have the more you would prefer to live there than in North America. I happen to know several extremely well-educated white CDN women that quit their jobs and moved to India for work. They find a spiritual balance there that they simply can't find in say Saskatchewan for example. 
Also worth noting that it was western influences that kept labour and environmental regulations from evolving. As their dependance on the west deteriorates you'll see these issues resolved. 
Guess it's time you learned to speak Mandarin or Hindi brother!

恩，你意识到几乎世界上一半的人口住在那两个国家了？越有钱你就会越想生活在那里而不是留在北美。我偶然得知有几个受过非常好教育的加拿大白人女性辞掉了原来的工作办到印度去工作。他们找到了心灵的平衡，这是他们在Saskatchewan体会不到的感觉。
值得注意的是是西方的影响导致他们的劳动和环境法规得不到改善。随着他们对西方世界的依赖性逐步消除，这些问题都会迎刃而解。
我想现在是你学习普通话或者印度语的时候了，兄弟。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Cornell Hessing R26; President at Axis Consulting Group R26; Aug 30 2016 10:02am
Why are these two economies growing so rapidly? Well...it isn't easy for the west to marginalize and control eastern societies anymore and with that loss in power comes the inability to manipulate global markets for personal gain. That's basically about it.

为什么这两个经济体增长得如此迅速？好吧……对于西方来说，边缘化和控制东方社会不再那么容易了，随着力量的减少，


Ryan Purvis R26; Aug 30 2016 10:32am 
China will never be truly prosperous until there is political reform.

中国不进行政治改革，将永远达不到真正的繁荣。