中国人能接受象棋其实不是中国发明的，而是源自印度的这个事吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Do the Chinese people accept that Xiangqi wasn't invented by them but came from India?

中国人能接受象棋其实不是中国发明的，而是源自印度的这个事吗？



-------------译者：棕榈猫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]mister_shamrock 4 指标 6小时前 
who invented shitting in the streets both china and india love doing that

谁发明的在街头拉屎，中国人和印度人都喜欢那样做。

[–]phatriceUnited States 2 指标 7小时前 
Not according to Wiki so you need to cite your sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangqi?wprov=sfti1

不是根据维基百科得到的内容，你得标明引用来源。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
so how do you explain the similarities between xiangqi and the chess from India?

那么你如何解释中国象棋和起源于印度的国际象棋之间的相似之处？

[–]chinaxiha 2 指标 6小时前 
so you have no sources but only facially looked at both games and say they are similar and therefore china copied india.

你没有任何可靠来源，你不过是比较了下两个棋种的外观，就觉得它们之间有相似之处，因此得出了中国抄袭印度的结论。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前
so you believe that both originated independently?

所以你是认为两者的起源不同？

[–]chinaxiha 1 指标 6小时前 
i have no idea. i'm open to xiangqi being from india. i would love to have some source.

我不知道。我对中国象棋起源于印度的说法持开放态度。但我希望有确凿的消息来源。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
look at the moves of the elephant/bishop the knight and the rook and their positions.
no way they originated independently

看看象与主教，骑士与车的移动方式和位置。它们的起源不可能不是一家。

[–]RedditIsBreaddit 2 指标 6小时前 
Cite your sources please!

请注明你的消息来源出处！

[–]gereedf[S] 0 指标 6小时前 
how about you give me an explanation?!

要不你先给我个解释？！

-------------译者：棕榈猫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]phatriceUnited States 1 指标 6小时前 
According to wiki Indian chess is much more similar to Western chess than Xiangqi are you talking about something else?

根据维基百科，相比于中国象棋，印度象棋和西洋棋更相似，你还有别的可说吗？

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
I'm not talking about Western why is Xiangqi so similar to the Indian Chess? how do you explain that?

我没说西洋棋，我是问为什么中国象棋和印度象棋这么像？这你该如何解释？

[–]phatriceUnited States 1 指标 4小时前 
How is this:
https://pic.wumaow.org/d/file/p/201806/12101405_f520.jpg
Similar to xiangqi? It's far more similar to the western chess



这个（如图）跟中国象棋哪里像了？和西洋棋更像好不好。

[–]gereedf[S] 1 指标 4小时前 
dude I wasn't talking about Western.
but if you've played the Indian or Western variants you know there's no way them and xiangqi don't have a common origin.

哥们，我没在说西洋棋啊。但如果你玩过印度或西洋棋的各种变体，你会意识到它们三个肯定有共同起源。

[–]chinaxiha 0 指标 6小时前 
jesus christ this thread is like a hindu nationalist shitshow.

我的天啊，这个帖子就像个印度民族主义者的垃圾个人秀。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 5小时前 
but you are a Chinese nationalist in denial

那你就是个拒绝接受事实真相的中华MZ主义者。

[–]gereedf[S] 1 指标 6小时前 
but it's a fact

但这是事实。

[–]kongfu_xiongmao 1 指标 6小时前 
If you believe it’s a fact. It has to be a fact.

如果你“觉得”这是个事实。那它就是事实。

[–]chinaxiha 0 指标 6小时前 
i will gladly say this is a fact if you show me some source.
you can't come here and say because they look the same so it came from A.

如果你能拿出引用来源证明你的观点，那我会欣然接受这个事实。你不能来这儿张口就瞎说，仅因为它们看起来像，所以它们都源于A。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
then what they both originated independently?

那又怎样，难道他们都是单独起源的？

[–]chinaxiha 1 指标 7小时前 
source on xiangqi not invented by Chinese? You mean Chess or Xiangqi?

请你给出象棋不是中国人发明的出处。你指的是中国象棋还是国际象棋啊？

-------------译者：棕榈猫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]gereedf[S] 1 指标 5小时前 
well xiangqi is a type of chess

中国象棋只是国际象棋的一种类型。

[–]gereedf[S] 0 指标 7小时前 
the concept of chess which xiangqi comes from did not start with the Chinese but with Indians.

中国象棋源自于国际象棋，象棋的概念不是从中国来的，而是印度。

[–]chinaxiha 0 指标 6小时前 
source?
cause my source:
Xiangqi dates back to the Warring States period; according to the first-century-BC text Shuo yuan (说苑/说苑) it was one of Lord Mengchang of Qi's interests.[10] Emperor Wu of Northern Zhou wrote a book in AD 569 called Xiang Jing. It described the rules of an astronomically themed game called xiangqi or xiangxi (象戏/象戏). The word xiàngqí 象棋 is usually translated as "elephant game" or "figure game" because the Chinese character 象 means "elephant" and "figure"; it originated as a stylized drawing of an elephant and was used to write a word meaning "figure" likely because the two words were pronounced the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangqi#History

麻烦给个来源？
因为根据我的来源：
象棋的历史可以追溯到战国时期；根据公元前一世纪的文字资料说苑，下象棋是齐国孟尝君的兴趣之一。[10]公元569年，北周武帝邕编写了一本名为《象经》的书。该书记录了一种以天相为规则的，叫做象棋或象戏的游戏。 xiàngqí这个词通常写作“象棋”或“相棋”，因为中文中“象”的意思是“象”和“相”；它起源于大象的标准化形象，并常写作“相”，因为两个字的发音相同。

[–]gereedf[S] 0 指标 6小时前 
but that game by the name of xiangqi was not a form a chess.
when chess came from India to China Chinese chess adopted the name of the older game.

但这个名为象棋的游戏用的不是国际象棋的形式。当象棋从印度传入中国的时候，中国象棋则采用了老游戏的名字。

[–]chinaxiha 1 指标 6小时前 
source?

来源依据呢？

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
how do you explain the similarities between xiangqi and the chess from India?

你怎么解释中国象棋和源自印度的国际象棋之间的相似之处？

[–]Jman-laowai -1 指标 6小时前 
Yeah but they just copied it of the Indians. "Chess with Chinese characteristics" basically.

是的，但他们只是复制了印度象棋。基本上就是“中国特色象棋”。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaturanga



-------------译者：棕榈猫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]chinaxiha 2 指标 6小时前 
er.. isn't chaturanga international chess? Xiangqi is different?
Is there a cannon in xiangqi?

呃……不是“恰图兰卡”国际象棋吗？与中国象棋不一样不是吗？中国象棋里有炮吗？

[–]Jman-laowai 0 指标 6小时前 
From the article:
" is an ancient Indian strategy game which is commonly theorized to be the common ancestor of the board games chess shogi sittuyin makruk xiangqi and"

文章里说：“理论上说，通常认为古印度策略型游戏，是棋盘类游戏的祖先，如日本将棋、缅甸象棋，泰国象棋，中国象棋......”

[–]chinaxiha 1 指标 6小时前 
there's literally a "citation needed" to where you cited that source. Nice of you to ignore that.

很明显，你所引用的资料来源本身就“需要引证”。我欣然看你忽视了这一点。

[–]Jman-laowai 1 指标 6小时前 
You're just butt hurt because your ancestors weren't smart enough to invent chess (or xiangqi AKA inferior chess copy)

你不过是感到丢脸，因为你的祖先不够聪明，发明不了象棋（或者中国象棋，也被称为山寨劣质象棋）。

[–]chinaxiha 1 指标 6小时前 
ah finally. the true purpose of this thread.
to show indians are smarter than chinese. lol.
dude come back in 50 years when india has actually made some real achievements. I believe india is a great country and will be great but not now. come back then.

啊，终于来了。这篇帖子的真正目的。就是想显示印度人比中国人聪明。呵呵。伙计，等50年后，印度真的做出很多实质性的成果后你再来辩吧。我相信印度将是个伟大的国家，但不是现在。等（你们真正强大的）那个时候再回来吧。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
we're not talking about today but about something that happened hundreds of years ago.
look at Europeans. they are proud and racist but even they cannot deny that they didn't invent Chess.

我们谈论的不是现在，而是几百年前发生的事情。看看欧洲人。他们自大且种族歧视，但甚至是他们也不会否认自己没有发明象棋的这个事实。

[–]Jman-laowai 2 指标 5小时前 
Wow that really would have hurt my feelings if I was actually Indian. I just enjoy watching ethno-Nationalists getting in butthurt arguments about who invented some shit 3000 years ago that no-one outside those countries cares where it originated from.

哇，如果我是印度人，这真可能会伤到我的心。我仅仅是喜欢在一旁看戏，看民族主义者争论谁在3千年前发明了这些狗屁玩意，这是个除了你们这些国家之外没有人关心的傻问题。

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 1 指标 7小时前 
Chinese chess isn’t from China? Is Japanese chess also not from Japan?

中国象棋不来自中国？那日本象棋也不来自日本吗？

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
the idea of chess came from india

象棋的理念来源于印度。

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 1 指标 5小时前 
And?

然后呢？

-------------译者：棕榈猫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]gereedf[S] 1 指标 5小时前 
so I'm asking whether most Chinese people accept that

所以我问大部分中国人能否接受（象棋不是中国发明的这个事实）。

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 3 指标 5小时前 
The idea of India came from the British. Does India have its origins in England?

印度这个国家的概念源自英国。所以印度是起源于英格兰吗？

[–]gereedf[S] 1 指标 5小时前 
before the British there were the Mughals and the Maurya.
you believe that the Indians copied the Chinese? nonsense.

在英国来之前，古印度有莫卧儿王朝和孔雀王朝。你相信印度抄袭中国？说什么傻话，真是天真。

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 7小时前 
it certainly originated from India and was brought to China

毫无疑问它起源于印度，并且被传入中国。

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 5 指标 7小时前 
So since Indo-European languages originated in Caucasia English originated in Armenia?

既然印欧语系起源于高加索语系，所以英语起源于亚美尼亚语？

[–]gereedf[S] 2 指标 6小时前 
lol. the idea of chess different types of pieces a king to defend a grid and rows of opposing forces did not spring from the brain of a Chinese man but from an Indian.
Xiangqi came about when the Chinese first encountered the Indian invention.

哈哈，象棋的玩法中，不同的棋子中，国王用于防守，棋盘布局和一组对手，这并不是中国人的灵感，而是印度人的。当中国人第一次见到印度发明的这个游戏时，象棋就出现了。

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 1 指标 6小时前 
Ok cool. TIL English is Armenian.

好啊，不错，今天我知道了英语原来源自亚美尼亚语。

[–]gereedf[S] 1 指标 6小时前 
English and Armenian are like European chess and Chinese chess.

英语和亚美尼亚语就好比西洋棋和中国象棋。