未来伊斯兰有可能主宰中日韩吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：大汉故土-审核者：假的------------



Will Islam ever dominate there?

伊斯兰会主宰这些地方吗？


-------------译者：大汉故土-审核者：假的------------

Nan Zhang A Touhou Fan and a nobody
Written Nov 4
First let me begin with Japan.
I would say that Islam has zero chance to dominate Japan.
Reasons are:
Islam has no market in Japan.Religion in Japan - Wikipedia Generally speaking Shinto and Buddhism are the big boss. Most Japanese muslims are immigrants which means most japanese muslims are not ethnicaly Japanese.
Historically speaking the power holders of Japan did not tolerate any religion who wanted to take the charge of regime at all. Several supresses or we say slaughters clearly show that it seems not possible for muslims to turn Japan into a unworldliness country. Supresses: 越前一向一揆 - Wikipedia Amakusa Shirō - Wikipedia
Immigration policy. Japan is not a nation of immigrants.

首先，让我从日本开始谈起：
我想说，伊斯兰没有任何机会主宰日本。
原因如下：
伊斯兰在日本没有市场，日本主要信仰神道教和佛教，日本的穆斯林绝大多数是外面移民进来的，也就意味着日本的大多数穆斯林并非土着。从日本的历史来看，日本的统治者也绝对不会容忍任何威胁到统治权的宗教的存在。数次对宗教（人士）的压制或者说屠杀明显证明，穆斯林不太可能把日本变成一个超尘脱俗的国家。
移民政策：日本根本就不是一个移民国家。

Then let me talk about China.
As a Chinese myself I have to say that it depends on goverment. If the government continue to conduct appeasement policy against Chinese musilims I would say anythings is possible. Chinese is a magic realism coutry where the majority is exactly the vulnerable group.
Once Chinese muslims wanted to take over the regime and eliminate Han people Dungan Revolt (1862–77) - Wikipediawikipedia.org They failed anyway but it seems that they never give up.

接下来说中国：作为一个中国人，我必须得说，这要取决于中国政府怎么搞。如果政府继续对境内的穆斯林采取目前的这种绥靖政策，我想说，（中国成为一个绿绿国家）是有可能的。中国是一个神奇的国度，主体民族反而成了弱势族群。曾经，中国的回回想夺取政权进而灭绝汉人。同治回乱（1862-1877维基百科）虽然他们失败了，但是好像他们从没放弃过（夺权、灭汉）。 （译注：为这位兄台默哀，我放佛已经看到一顶皇汉的帽子在半空中熠熠生辉）

Finally it comes to Korea.
No offense but Korea suffers from political chaos these days. Some korean people even think their government has already been controlled by some evil religion. Hope things can become good again soon.

最后说说韩国：无意冒犯，但韩国最近好像政局混乱。一些韩国人甚至认为他们的政府已经被某些邪恶的宗教所控制。希望情况会有所好转。

-------------译者：mifantasy-审核者：唯Sue------------

Jamal Bradley5 votes Show
The entire context of the question is wrong. For one Islam is not some entity that has a mind and can seek to “dominate” any person or entity. Now if one were to construct the question of “Can Islam become the main religion in Japan or China?” then I’d say yes. But it would initially have to be because the people of these places have encountered decent practicing Muslims absent of cultural leanings which have nothing to do with Islam and such people when encountering the religion can see value and benefit.

这个问题的整个语境都是错误的。就说一点伊斯兰教并不是某个拥有主体思想并寻求控制任何人的实体。如果某个人构思的问题是：伊斯兰教是否可以成为日本或者中国的主要宗教吗？ 那我会回答yes。就最初来说是有这个趋势的，因为这些地方的人遇到了不少举止得体的穆斯林，跨越了文化的沟壑——这些沟壑对伊斯兰教传播和这些人民是没有好处的，读懂了伊斯兰教的价值观和益处。

The overwhelming majority of Muslim nations of today were not “conquered” by war or fighting. Quite simply there were people who were good and well intentioned Muslims the non-Muslim people observed their actions and wanted to learn more. In turn they decided to become Muslim. Thus examples such as Indonesia Malaysia Bangladesh Pakistan and other regions of Asia with large populations of people who at some point in history became Muslim absent of any violent encounters.

今天主要的穆斯林主体国家在历史上并非是用战争或者争斗实现的，很简单的是有很多心地非常善良的穆斯林帮助过别人，非穆斯林人民看到了他们的行动并且想要学习更多，结果他们就决定成为穆斯林。这样的例子很多，比如印尼，马来西亚，孟加拉国，巴基斯坦以及历史上出现过大批人口成为穆斯林的亚洲国家，这样的情况无一例外都是无冲突背景下实现的。

-------------译者：珂求一生-审核者：lucky06688------------

Nan Zhang
      你说的很有道理. 我同意你的大部分意见.
      但是正如我先前在我的回答中提到过的，关于中国穆斯林的问题，我认为把它作为一个宗教问题或者称之为“征服”是不恰当的，我认为它是一个民族问题。
      另外，我不觉得题主和其他答主把伊斯兰教视为靠战争和征服来扩张的宗教。如果伊斯兰教开始在东亚国家展示它的魅力从而使这些国家的人们信仰伊斯兰教，那么这也可以说是一种支配。我认为人并不是天生好战的物种。若有冒犯敬请谅解。

Jamal Bradley
      一点也没有冒犯. 我只是想通过这些描述把这个问题讲清楚，因为在一些媒体和文章中，伊斯兰教经常以“靠武力传播”的形象出现。
      感谢与您的交流，期待有更多的提问。

 -------------译者：mifantasy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Girish K6 votes Show
Over 80 million Hindus Sikhs Buddhists died in present day India Pakistan and Afghanistan at the hands of mughals. They fought against forcible conversion ruthless rapists sex slavery and cruel tax laws on non Muslims as much as they could before falling and most of them either converting through force or because of no choice. And that was ‘peaceful’ conversion huh? Present day Pakistan has conducted clinical oppression against Hindus and Sikhs since the country broke from India.

超过8000万的印度教徒、锡克教徒、佛教徒死在今天的印度、巴基斯坦和阿富汗权贵手上。他们反抗统治者下台前对非穆斯林人民实施的暴力统治：强制性的皈依以及毫无人性的强奸行为、将他们作为性奴，以及严苛的征税条例。大部分的人转变为穆斯林是因为强制性或者没有选择，你认为这些都是“和平转化”吗？自从巴基斯坦从印度分离出来后，现在的巴基斯坦政府对印度教徒、西克教徒进行了诸多没有人性的镇压行动。

Abdullah2 votes Show
That is non-sense. Islam is a religion which spread by conquests and all the countries you mentioned were islamized by conquests at some point. That is why Pakistan is one of the most intolerant regimes in the world. And as a religion islam is hellbent on global domination. Muslims see that as their mission and Gods promise to them.

你说的都是屁话，伊斯兰教的传播都是通过征服的手段实现的，你上面提到的伊斯兰化的几个国家都是通过历史上某个时间段的征伐达成的。那就是为什么巴基斯坦是世界上最不宽容的几个国家政权之一的原因。作为一个宗教而言伊斯兰教总是对统治全球特别热衷。穆斯林把征讨世界视为他们的使命和上帝对他们的承诺。

-------------译者：邺水沐夏-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Ferry Fernandez Wijaya
I would suggest that you upxe your knowledge. I’m a non-Muslim Indonesian I was taught Indonesian history since late primary school. And I can tell you that Islam first spread here thanks to Arabic merchant class that mingled and sometimes settled in the archipelago. The majority religion in the archipelago Hindu-Buddhism was completely shifted to Islam in a relatively short time in part because it was spread peacefully and that it’s more inclusive towards the low caste population. If anything Christianity is the one more viewed as the “evil” religion because it’s the religion of the Europeans the conqueror of the archipelago who undoubtedly employed violence in their conquest.

我建议你更新下你的知识。我是一个非穆斯林印度尼西亚人，从我小学后期我就开始学习我们国家的历史。伊斯兰教在我的过国家传播最初是由于在这片群岛贸易和歇脚的阿拉伯商人阶级。我们国家的主导宗教很快就和平得从印度教佛教转变成了伊斯兰教，因为它对低种姓的人民更包容。基督教被认为是邪恶的宗教，因为它是欧洲征服者的宗教，他们在征服的过程中无疑使用了暴力。

Jamal Bradley
I just looked at your profile and every single question comment and answer you’ve provided shows you are a bigot and have some kind of hatred towards Muslims and Islam. Granted everyone may not agree with all people or ideas but you seem to be bent on spreading pure hatred and ignorance.

我看了你的简介、每一个评论和答案。它们证明了你是一个偏执顽固的人并且对于伊斯兰教和穆斯林有着某种敌意。虽然人们都不可能同意所有的主意，但你看起来专心致力于散播纯粹的仇恨和愚昧。

-------------译者：magicqueen99-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Abdullah
If I were a bigot I would probably stay as a muslim who hates non-muslims gays seculars and anybody who is not a muslim of my taste and dream of forcefully converting them one day. I have hatred towards Islam because it is a hatefull bigoted sexist religion which is oppressing people all around the world. So that is called self-defence. Just like I hate Nazism I hate Islam. That is all. And no I am not a hateful person. I am hateful against ideologies and people who have intolerant supremecsist oppresive mindset. That is probably because I have grown up in pure hatred in an islamic environment. If you really want to see hatred and bigotry all you have to do is visit and see a muslim country. I am not spreading ignorance as well. I am spreading reality. If you do not like what I said then you should probably not peep into Islam anymore. Because there is a lot of that in islam.

如果我是一个偏执狂，那我可能就会继续当一个穆斯林：仇恨非穆斯林，仇恨同性恋，仇恨世俗化的人，仇恨不是合乎我口味的穆斯林的任何人，并且梦想总有一天强力让他们皈依。我痛恨伊斯兰教，因为这是一种可恶的偏执的性别歧视的宗教，压迫所有的人。这就是所谓的自卫。就像我恨纳粹一样，我恨伊斯兰教。就这样。我不是一个可恶的人。我讨厌意识形态，讨厌心胸狭窄的极端的心态压抑的人。这可能是因为我在一个伊斯兰教的纯粹是仇恨的环境下长大的缘故。如果你真的想看到仇恨和偏执，只要去一个 穆斯林国家看看就知道了。我也不是在散播无知。我只是告诉你现实。如果你不喜欢我说的，你就不应该再瞄一眼伊斯兰教了。因为在伊斯兰教里有很多的仇恨与偏执。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Jamal Bradley
I’m Muslim born and raised in America and living in a Muslim country. You’re confusing culture with religion. An individual can point to America itself and the European conquest of the Americas and suggest that it has something to do with Christianity but that would be wrong.
Similarly one can look at the Mongols who conquered much of Asia and killed millions of people and suggest that it has something to do with Buddhism or Shamanism and that would be wrong.
Can anyone suggest that the Japanese invasion enslavement and murder of millions of people in China and the Philippines have to do with Shintoism of course not.
People are oppressing others all over the world from Latin America (Catholic) Myanmar (Buddhist) Syria (Islam) and even in the United States (Christianity).
But the fact that you apparently make it a point to attack Islam in numerous other posts according to your profile is what makes you a bigot. And if you claim to have grown up in an environment it wasn’t Islamic. Sadly it appears it was a culture that mixes outdated social norms a lack of education oppression of woman and other backwards notions and because the people are so-uneducated when someone says “This is Islam” the people don’t know any better because they’re not learned and don’t know any better.
But such acts have nothing to do with any religion and to suggest so and then spread it makes one an accessory to spreading hatred.

我是个穆斯林，出生和长大在美国，现在居住在一个穆斯林国家。你混淆了宗教和文化。任何人都可以指向美国以及欧洲对美洲的征服，然后称这与基督教有关，但这种说法是错误的。
看看蒙古人就知道了，他们征服亚洲并杀死无数人，而如果你说这与佛教或者萨满教有关，那么你就是错的。
日本人侵略和杀死无数的中国人和菲律宾人，你能说这与日本的神道教有关吗，当然不能。
全世界都存在人镇压人的现象，拉丁美洲（天主教），缅甸（佛教），叙利亚（伊斯兰教），甚至在美国（基督教）。
但是你在其他的帖子中都有意攻击伊斯兰教，所以你是个偏执的人。你说你生长在一个伊斯兰的环境中，其实那并非伊斯兰。那其实是过时的社会规范，教育缺乏，镇压女性以及其他落后观点而组成的文化导致的，而由于人们没受什么教育，所以当有人说“这就是伊斯兰”时，人们就真的相信了，因为他们不了解真相。
但是这样的行为和任何宗教都没有关系，而你却持这种看法并进行散播，所以这这种行为就是在散播仇恨。

-------------译者：izzmo-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Abdullah
Well religions are perfect ideologies for empire building that is a fact. Be it Christianity or Islam. I have not lived in any Christian coutry so I can not comment on them but for once Christians moved on Muslims did not. Most Christian nations have secular regimes with freedom of religion and expression where as Muslims still have draconian laws which dictates you a religion based mentality starting from early age. They brainwash you into being a hatefull bigoted person who sees the world as muslims vs. kuffar.
I can attack Islam that is my freedom of religion and expression. But I do not want to kill muslims while most muslims would want to kill me for being an apostate. That is the difference and that is what makes muslims bigoted and hatefull not me.
I grew up in a perfectly islamic environment. I have at least 5 friends from elementary school who joined ISIS and fought in Syria. If I were not an irreligious person maybe I could be one of them. I started memorizing qu’ran at age 6 and have a hafiz certificate and spent 15 years of my life in religious schools.
And sadly your distinciton between culture and islam does not make sense. Because without islamic input my culture has nothing to do with that. We were used to be one of the most egelitarian societies on Earth before accepting islam.

好吧，宗教是君主制的最佳意识形态，这是事实。无论是基督教还是伊斯兰。我从来没有在基督教国家生活过，所以我不能评论他们，但是有一点，基督徒进步了，穆斯林没有。大多数基督教国家有世俗化的政体、宗教和言论自由，而穆斯林仍有着严苛的法律，从小根据宗教指导你精神世界。把你洗脑成心里充满仇恨的宗教极端分子，把这个世界看成穆斯林和咖啡乐（异教徒）的对抗。
我可以攻击伊斯兰教，这是我的宗教和言论自由。但是我不想杀穆斯林，很多穆斯林却想杀我，因为我叛教。这就是区别，这就是为什么穆斯林极端，充满仇恨，而我不。
我在完全的伊斯兰环境成长。至少5位我小学朋友加入了ISIS，参加叙利亚战争。如果我有宗教信仰，我可能也是他们中的一员。我六岁背记古兰经，有哈菲兹证书，在宗教学校呆了15年。可悲的是，区分文化和伊斯兰没有意义。因为我的文化除了伊斯兰一无所有。在接受伊斯兰之前，我们曾是最平等的社会。

-------------译者：izzmo-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Pratik M1 vote by Mercedes Krupp
I mean the situation in SK is quite awful at the moment. It does look like their government is a secret plutocracy as more and more revelations come out.

 我是说，现在韩国的情况很不好。更多真相曝光之后，他们的政府就像个秘密财阀统治的。

Shane Towe1 vote by Abdullah
Islam have spread around mostly in Asia (India Indonesia) because those people never knew how to fight they always think these are new group of people come to assimilate. Mostly it started with sword but slowly it change to other mean. Its hard in China because communist party is ruthless Japanese pride their culture (another word they are not hindus who’ll easily convert).
I think best bait Islam have right now is Europe and US or wherever leader cant speak rather they try to be politically correct.

伊斯兰在亚洲大部分地区广泛传播（印度，印尼），因为那些人不知道怎么反抗，他们总是被这些新来的人同化。一开始大多是用武力传播伊斯兰，后来变成其他方式。在中国这很难，因为tg冷酷无情，日本以他们的文化为傲（换言之，他们不像印度人那么容易转变）
我认为现在最受伊斯兰垂涎的是欧洲和美国，因为领导者都要政治正确而不能发声。

-------------译者：izzmo-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Kalyan Mannava1 vote by Girish K
aah…the dangers of half baked knowledge littered with bias!
First of all Indians don’t know how to fight? A simple search in Wikipedia should enlighten you of our history. High tolerance to assimilation is NOT unwillingness to fight.
< another word they are not Hindus who’ll easily convert>
Of almost all the countries Islam went to (Arabs/Turks) in Asia and Africa Pretty much Hindus (and Sikhs) are the only ones that not only resisted complete conversion but pretty much remained the MAJORITY. And this is after repeated attacks for 1000 years. The percentage of Muslims during partition was 25% no where near your imagination of 50.
And regarding your BS about Rajputs and Marathas so many brave clans throughout the country fought against the invaders. We are thankful to ALL of them. You claimed to have learnt a lot about our “beautiful country’- do us a favor and learn its history first.

呵呵……灌着偏见的半瓶水最危险!
首先，印度人不知道怎么反抗？维基百科简单搜一下你就会知道我们的历史。对于同化的高度忍耐不是不愿意去反抗。
<换言之，他们不像印度人那么容易转变>
在几乎所有深受伊斯兰影响的亚非国家（阿拉伯/土耳其），印度（和锡金）是唯一反对完全转变，并且（反对者）还保持多数的。在持续千年的攻击之后。穆斯林的比例依然是25%，完全不是你想象的50%。
回敬你的狗屁，拉其普特人和马拉地人有许许多多的勇敢的部落遍布祖国大地，反击侵略者。我们感谢他们所有人。你声称对我们美丽的国家很了解——拜托先了解她的历史吧

 -------------译者：布拉格鸽子蛋-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Divjot Jolly
Shows how illiterate you are in history and as a person

充分表明了你作为一个人，对历史有多无知。

Benjamin Marr1 vote by Dandilion
I don't think Chinese government will allow any religion to become dominant in China Maoism itself is to some extend a religion provocated by Chinese government so they won't allow anything else to replace Maoism.

我不认为中国政府会允许任何宗教成为中国的主导宗教，毛主义某种程度上就是中国政府所鼓吹的宗教，所以他们不会让任何宗教取代毛主义。

Kervin Jacque
So it's more likely for Islam to have a chance in China due to how tolerant China is compared to her neighbors Korea and Japan right?.

所以伊斯兰教在中国绿化的机会更大，只因为中国比她的邻居日韩更具有包容性，对吗？