historum论坛：朝鲜战争时为何不让麦克阿瑟攻入中国？（一） [美国媒体]

General MacArthur was right about China

麦克阿瑟将军对中国的观点是对的




RomanEmperor
From: Roman Empire 来自：罗马帝国
Why did Truman not let him go in to China? We could've eliminated the Communist threats in NK and in China in one swoop, and I think you always trust your Generals on strategic issues like this, especially one of our mostly highly regarded heroes.

为什么杜鲁门不让他攻入中国？我们可以一下子消除掉北韩和中国的共产主义威胁，而且我觉得在这样的战略问题上要信任你的将军，尤其是对一位被我们倍加推崇的英雄。

zincwarrior
From: Texas 来自：德克萨斯州
—Why did Truman not let him go in to China? We could've eliminated the Communist threats in NK and in China in one swoop, .........
Highly regarded by who? He was hated by many, including his troops. 
Don't trust someone who lets their air force get wiped out on Day 2, gets their asses kicked by inferior forces in the Philippines, and again gets surprised and nearly wiped out when the Chinese attacked.
MacArthur was a politically connected fool of the highest order who would have had us in a major war with China and likely the USSR.

—为什么杜鲁门不让他攻入中国？我们可以一下子消除掉北韩和中国的共产主义威胁，我觉得在这样的战略问题上要信任你的将军，尤其
..........
被谁高度推崇？许多人包括他的部队都讨厌他。
不要信任一个在菲律宾两天就葬送了空军，并被垃圾部队狠揍的货色，令人惊讶的是当中国打来时他又是被打的几乎全军覆没。
麦克阿瑟靠的是政治背景，这个顶级蠢货把美中可能还包括苏联都拖进了一场大战。

Quinntan
From: Ireland 来自：爱尔兰
—Why did Truman not let him go in to China? We could've eliminated the Communist threats in NK and in China in one swoop, and ........
Because he was an idiot of the highest order.

—为什么杜鲁门不让他攻入中国？我们可以一下子消除掉北韩和中国的共产主义威胁，我觉得在这样的战略问题上要信任你的将军，尤其是.......
因为他是个顶级白痴。

Viperlord
From: VA 来自：弗吉尼亚州
MacArthur's record in fighting the Chinese definitely inspires confidence in your proposal here.

麦克阿瑟对中国人的战绩肯定鼓舞了你写下这些。

Naomasa298
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire 来自：约克郡人民共和国（英国约克郡一直有独立倾向，是约独吗？）
You mean, you could have eliminated the Communists by being driven all the way back to the 38th parallel by Chinese forces?
And how MacArthur should have been trusted about the number of soldiers the Chinese had on the border and the way he should have been trusted about how the Chinese wouldn't intervene?
And how MacArthur's masterful defence of the Philippines made him a reliable war strategist?

你是说靠着被中国军队一路推回三八线来消灭共产主义者吗？
而且麦克阿瑟是怎么确信边境上中国士兵的数量且断言中国人不会干涉的？
还有麦克阿瑟又是如何吹嘘菲律宾之战来让他变成可靠战略家的？

Frank81
From: Canary Islands-Spain 来自：西班牙加那利群岛
Americans had a hard time not being annihilated in late 1950, and then wrasping what they could of Korea.
The invasion of China was only possible into total and nuclear war, which would lead to WW3.

美国人在1950年底艰难求生，而在之后包装自己在朝鲜的作为。
入侵中国唯一的可能是陷入一场将导致三战的全面核战争。

redcoat
From: Stockport Cheshire UK 来自：英国柴郡斯托克波特
—Why did Truman not let him go in to China?
Because he was sane.

—为什么杜鲁门不让他攻入中国？
因为他脑子是清醒的。

RomanEmperor
From: Roman Empire 来自：罗马帝国
Uh, history recognizes MacArthur as one of our preeminent Generals.
He's the Patton of the East basically..... and even more accomplished since we had him in Korea too. 
lol @ the notion that crappy commie Chinese forces would stand a chance in hell against the US Military

呃，历史会证明麦克阿瑟是我们最杰出将军中的一员
他基本上就是东方巴顿.....而到朝鲜后他甚至有所超出
哈哈，那些蹩脚的T·G军队倒是有机会在地狱里对抗美国军队。

Viperlord
From: VA 来自:弗吉尼亚州
I am actually laughing out loud right now. 
—lol @ the notion that crappy commie Chinese forces would stand a chance in hell against the US Military
You do actually know that those crappy commie Chinese forces routed MacArthur all the way back to the 38th parallel because of his own incompetence right?

现在我正放声大笑。
—哈哈，那些蹩脚的T·G军队倒是有机会在地狱里对抗美国军队
你真的知道因为麦克阿瑟本身的无能他被这些蹩脚的T·G军队一路吊打回38线吗？

aggienation
From: USA 来自：美国
—Because he was sane.
Truman didn't want to escalate a war against communists in Korea, but he had no problems at all fighting it as a limited action resulting in great loss of lives. The US had downsized its military to an incredible amount after WWII, courtesy of Truman, while investing heavily in atomic bombs. MacArthur wanted to use those nukes to remove CCP from controlling China, which would have turned back the Domino effect that was proved to be correct, whereby China caused a large part of Asia fall to communism, resulting in the deaths of tens of millions. 
The only real issue that Truman faced that MacArthur didn't consider was that by 1950-51, the Soviets had also gotten the bomb (helped by the US government having been infiltrated by communist agents). So attacking China with atomic weapons might have caused the Soviets to team up with the Chinese and retaliate (though at the time they really didn't have the capability yet of hitting the US). Essentially, Mac's idea would have started WWIII, which considering how the Cold War turned out in total deaths (like preventing the Cultural Revolution from happening, preventing the wars in Vietnam, preventing the Khmer Rouge massacres, etc.).

—因为他脑子是清醒的。
杜鲁门不想升级这场在朝鲜爆发的旨在反共的战争，但他在这场死伤惨重的有限战争中没有犯错。在二战后美国把它的军队大砍特砍，而杜鲁门同时也在核弹上大量投资。麦克阿瑟想用核弹消灭控制中国的共党，现在看来多米诺骨牌效应是对的，中国让亚洲一大部分都落入共党手中并导致数千万人死亡。
在1950-51年杜鲁门对麦克阿瑟唯一的失误是没有考虑到苏联也获得了核弹（靠渗透进美国政府的共党特务帮忙）。所以用核弹攻击中国可能会导致中苏联手报复（虽然那时候他们还没能力打到美国）。根本上说麦克阿瑟的主意会开启三战，想想冷战的总伤亡（像是阻止了文革，越战，红色高棉屠杀等发生）。

Quinntan
From: Ireland 来自：爱尔兰
—Uh, history recognizes MacArthur as one of our preeminent Generals.
One would hope not.
—He's the Patton of the East basically.....
What, massively overrated?
—and even more accomplished since we had him in Korea too.
...well I guess Inchon was good, but when even Winston Churchill is saying stop and you want to go further on? Yeah, you're making a big mistake.
—lol @ the notion that crappy commie Chinese forces would stand a chance in hell against the US Military
You mean like how "crappy commie Chinese forces" drove the US and allies back to the 38th parallel?

—呃，历史会证明麦克阿瑟是我们最杰出将军中的一员
没人希望如此。
—他基本上就是东方巴顿。
太高估他了。
—而到朝鲜后他甚至有所超出。
好吧我认为仁川登陆不错，但甚至连温斯顿丘吉尔都说要停下时你还想前进吗？好吧你犯了个大错。
—哈哈，那些蹩脚的T·G军队倒是有机会在地狱里对抗美国军队。
你是说像“蹩脚的T·G共军队”是如何把美国和其盟友推回38线之类的吗？

RomanEmperor
From: Roman Empire 来自：罗马帝国
The commie Chinese were helping the commie Koreans, so basically they were fighting a war against us. We could've won.
The only war the US ever lost was arguably a draw anyway, Vietnam, and it's because it was JUNGLE where guerrilla warfare was the norm, not so in Korea.

T·G是在帮朝鲜共党，所以从根本上来说是他们一起对抗我们而我们赢了。
美国唯一输了或者说平局的是越南战争而不是朝鲜战争，这是因为那里是适合游击战的雨林，而朝鲜并非如此。

Quinntan
From: Ireland 来自：爱尔兰
—The commie Chinese were helping the commie Koreans, so basically they were fighting a war against us. We could've won.
No, not really. 
—The only war the US ever lost was arguably a draw anyway, Vietnam, and it's because it was JUNGLE where guerrilla warfare was the norm, not so in Korea.
I count 1812 as a loss but the UK didn't want to be all that harsh to ye.

—T·G是在帮朝鲜共党，所以从根本上来说是他们一起对抗我们而我们赢了。
不，并非如此。
—美国唯一输了或者说平局的是越南战争而不是朝鲜战争，这是因为那里是适合游击战的雨林，而朝鲜并非如此。
我把1812（第二次英美战争）视作一场战败但是英国并不想对你们下死手。

译者注：第二次英美战争（1812-1815），也叫美国第二次独立战争，1812年战争。

Mouselord
From: Just outside the Rust Belt 来自：就在衰退工业区外面。
—No, not really. 
I count 1812 as a loss but the UK didn't want to be all that harsh to ye.
It was more of a tie if we're being frank. Especially if you consider New Orleans.

—不，并非如此。
我把1812（第二次英美战争）视作一场战败但是英国并不想对你们下死手。
如果我们坦率点它更像是一次平局，特别是考虑到新奥尔良的情况下。

译者注：此处指1815年1月美军取得的新奥尔良大捷。

Belgarion
From: Australia 来自：澳大利亚
I can't decide of the OP is deliberately trolling or is simply immature.

我不确定题主是故意钓鱼或只是太幼稚（NAIVE！）了

Scaeva
The commie Chinese were helping the commie Koreans, so basically they were fighting a war against us. We could've won.
The only war the US ever lost was arguably a draw anyway, Vietnam, and it's because it was JUNGLE where guerrilla warfare was the norm, not so in Korea.
Vietnam was an outright defeat. 
It would have been a draw if South Vietnam survived. It did not. The U.S. went to war to preserve South Vietnam, and failed.

—T·G是在帮朝鲜共党，所以从根本上来说是他们一起对抗我们而我们赢了。
美国唯一输了或者说平局的是越南战争而不是朝鲜战争，这是因为那里是适合游击战的雨林，而朝鲜并非如此。
越南战争是一场彻底的败局。
如果南越幸存下来那还是个平局，但它没有。美国参战是为了保护南越而且失败了。

Naomasa298
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire 来自：约克郡人民共和国
—The commie Chinese were helping the commie Koreans, so basically they were fighting a war against us. We could've won.
So you wanna explain how the UN forces were driven all the way south from the Yalu river to the 38th parallel by those crappy commie Chinese forces that you could have won against then?
How they caused the US 8th Army to carry the longest retreat in their history?

—T·G是在帮朝鲜共党，所以从根本上来说是他们一起对抗我们而我们赢了。
所以你想解释下联合国军在打败T·G军队后是如何被这些蹩脚的家伙从鸭绿江一路赶回38线的？
而他们又是如何让美国第八集团军进行他们历史上最长的撤退的？

Scaeva
MacArthur was getting reports from men in the field that they were encountering Chinese soldiers, and he hand-waived it away as isolated cases of volunteers with the North Koreans, because it conflicted with what he wanted to believe.
He was an egotistical jackass that was as prone to disastrous blunders as he was to strokes of brilliance. 
His successor, General Ridgway, was more competent.

麦克阿瑟从战场部队那里收到了遭遇中国士兵的报告，但他不屑一顾并以为只是来帮北朝鲜的零星志愿者，因为这和他想要相信的不符。
他是个习惯犯下灾难性错误的蠢驴尽管也有过一些辉煌事迹。
他的继任者李奇微将军比他强多了。

MJuingong
From: Queens, NYC 来自：纽约皇后区
Russia had nuclear bombs and an apparent capability to at hit U.S. troops with them; perhaps the U.S. itself.
Further pressing the Chinese ran the risk the Russians might come in; thus the risk of nuclear war. Truman-and the Joint Chiefs of Staffs-didn't think this was worth risking.
Any predictions MacArthur might make were impeached by his past record.

俄罗斯拥有核武器且明显有能力和美军一战或袭击美国。
进一步对中国人施压可能会把俄罗斯人也卷进来，有爆发核战的风险。杜鲁门和联合参议会不认为这值得冒险。
按麦克阿瑟过去的履历来看无论怎么预测他也会被弹劾。

dagul
From: In the bag of ecstatic squirt
Everyone was just tired of war so MacArthur's idea was not entertained, but it would be viable.

大家只是已厌倦战争所以麦克阿瑟的主意不受欢迎，但它是有可行性的。

phil1904
From: new caledonia 来自：新喀里多尼亚（法国海外属地）
—Uh, history recognizes MacArthur as one of our preeminent Generals.
He's the Patton of the East basically..... and even more accomplished since we had him in Korea too. 
lol @ the notion that crappy commie Chinese forces would stand a chance in hell against the US Military
"The Patton of the east basically"
What do you mean by .....basically.
On 15 october 1950 president Truman and "the Patton of the east" ("basically") met on Wake island. Mac artur speculated there was little risk of a chinese intervention in Korea, and that Popular Republic Chinese Army's opportunity for aiding Korean Popular Army had lapsed.
Therefore a short recall of military operations between mid-october and mid december 1950 in North Korea.
-First chinese crossing of the Yalu river on 19 october.
-First phase offensive on 25 october, attack of the advancing U.N forces.
-1st november,after decimating the ROK II corps (South Korean army) at the battle of Onjong, the U.S 8th cavalry regiment was encircled and attacked from the north, Northwest and west. U.S defensive position flanks were overrun in the battle of Unsan.
-On 24 november the UN command were inconvinced of a chinese attack cause a chinese withdrawal after their first succeses.
Then UN headquarter decided to continue to advance in North korea and launched the...."home by Christmas offensive".
-Chinese were waiting in ambush with their second phase offensive.
On 25 november at the Korean western front the 13th PVA's army group attacked and overran again the ROK II corps (battle of Ch'ong'an river) and decimated the U.S 2d infantery division.
Headquarter ordered the general retreat.
-On 27 november on the eastern korean front, the 7th infantery division regimental combat team and the 1st Marines division were encircled and almost anihilated (15 000 casualties) by PVA's 9th army group at the battle of Chosin reservoir.
-By 30 November the 13th PVA's army group managed to expell the 8th Army from northwest Korea.
-Retreating from the north faster than they had counter-invaded the Eight Army crossed the 38th parallel border in mid-december.
How can you imagine that UN army could crossed the Yalu river and swept away chinese army, it would has been a massacre?

—呃，历史会证明麦克阿瑟是我们最杰出将军中的一员
他基本上就是东方巴顿.....而到朝鲜后他甚至有所超出
哈哈，那些蹩脚的T·G军队倒是有机会在地狱里对抗美国军队。
“他基本上就是东方巴顿”
你在说什么鬼...还基本上。
1950年10月杜鲁门总统和“东方巴顿”（“基本上是”）在威克岛会面。麦克阿瑟预测中国介入朝鲜局势的风险很小，而且中国军队已失去帮助朝鲜军队的合适时机。
所以稍微回忆下1950年10月中旬至12月中旬在北朝鲜的军事行动吧。
—10月19日中国人渡过鸭绿江
—10月25日发起对靠前的联合国军的第一阶段攻势
—11月1日，在温井里战场击溃韩国第二军后（南朝鲜部队），美国第八骑兵团（骑一师所属）已陷入包围并遭受到来自北部，西北和西部的进攻。在云山战役美军防御阵地的侧翼已经不堪重负。
—11月24日，联军总部判断中国人在取得首次战役胜利后会选择撤退，然后决定继续在北朝鲜地区推进并发起了“圣诞节回家攻势”。
—而中国人则在他们的第二阶段攻势里等待着埋伏（联军）。
11月25日，在朝鲜西线战场志愿军第十三集团军发起进攻再次击溃了韩国第二军（清川江战役）并重创美国第二步兵师。
司令部命令全军撤退。
—11月27日，在东线战场美国第七步兵师的团级部队和海陆一师在长津湖被志愿军第九集团军包围并几近全军覆没（15000人伤亡）。
—11月30日志愿军第十三集团军设法将第八集团军赶出了朝鲜西北部。
—12月中旬第八集团军从北面撤退的速度可比他们越过三八线反击的速度快多了。
—所以你是如何想象出联合国军可以越过鸭绿江并扫平中国军队的，（如果这样做）那（联军）将遭遇一场大屠杀。

Scaeva
—On 27 november on the eastern korean front, the 7th infantery division regimental combat team and the 1st Marines division were encircled and almost anihilated (15 000 casualties) by PVA's 9th army group at the battle of Chosin reservoir.
This bit as a little misleading.
Chosin Reservoir was mostly a disaster for the Chinese. They failed to destroy the 1st Marine division, the objective for the battle, despite having surrounded it with several divisions. The 1st Marine Division successfully broke out of the encirclement and fought it's way south, leaving in it's wake two Chinese divisions so badly mauled that they ceased to exist. They were quite literally annihilated.
The 58th and 60th divisions of the PVA had only 200 effectives combined(!) left at battle's end. A single company could have been formed from the men of those two divisions who were not killed or wounded during the breakout, while the 1st Marine Division remained in action til war's end. Song Shi-Lun, the commanding general of the PLA's 9th Army Group (the army which had surrounded the 1st Marine Division), offered Mao his resignation in the aftermath.
Of course, that's all despite MacArthur. It was his blundering that put the 1st Marine Division in a position to be encircled in the first place, and it was only the skill and tenacity of the men, and leadership at the battalion, regimental, and division levels that saved it.

—11月27日，在东线战场美国第七步兵师的团级部队和海陆一师在长津湖被志愿军第九集团军包围并几近全军覆没（15000人伤亡）。
此处有点误导性。
长津湖主要对于中国人是一场大败。尽管用几个师包围但他们没能完成消灭陆战一师这个战役目标。陆战一师成功打破了包围圈并一路向南打，被它甩在后面的两个中国师伤亡惨重可以说是全军覆没。
战斗结束后志愿军第五十八和六十师只剩200可战之兵！陆战一师直到战役结束才停止战斗，而完成突围后这两个师（志愿军第58,60师）完好无损的男人们只够组成一个连。而解放军第九集团军（包围陆战一师的部队）司令宋时轮在这场战役后向毛提出了辞呈。
当然这都是因为麦克阿瑟。他的浮躁使得陆战一师在开始时就被包围，而这个男人和各级指挥官的才干和坚韧最终拯救了陆战一师。

Arminius
From: Birmingham, UK 来自：英国伯明翰
I have wondered a couple of times recently, if there was a western General who was a more unpopular figure amongst historians than McArtthur. almost nobody has much good to say about him.

我近来好奇是否有比麦克阿瑟还要受历史学家讨厌的西方将领。基本没人会说他的好话。

Arminius
From: Birmingham, UK 来自：英国伯明翰
mentions of Chosin reservoir made me realise I have never read anything on that battle
is this book any good, does anyone know, or could anyone recommend one for me?

说到长津湖我意识到我对这场战斗一无所知
链接略过
有谁知道这本书好不好？或者给我推荐一本。

zincwarrior
From: Texas 来自：德克萨斯州
—Uh, history recognizes MacArthur as one of our preeminent Generals.
He's the Patton of the East basically..... and even more accomplished since we had him in Korea too. 
lol @ the notion that crappy commie Chinese forces would stand a chance in hell against the US Military
No MacArthur recognized himself as one of the pre-eminent generals. His family connections kept him from being cashiered out of the army post Phillipines.
His one smooth move was Inchon, and that was a Navy/Marines operation.

—呃，历史会证明麦克阿瑟是我们最杰出将军中的一员。
他基本上就是东方巴顿.....而到朝鲜后他甚至有所超出
哈哈，那些蹩脚的T·G军队倒是有机会在地狱里对抗美国军队。
麦克阿瑟没有承认自己是最杰出将领中的一员。在菲律宾之战后他靠着家庭背景才免遭革职。
他在仁川的登录倒是行云流水，但那是海军和海陆的功劳。

zincwarrior
From: Texas 来自：德克萨斯州
—No, not really. 
I count 1812 as a loss but the UK didn't want to be all that harsh to ye.
1812 was a loss until my relatives decided to win it in Louisiana. 

—不，并非如此。
我把1812（第二次英美战争）视作一场战败但是英国并不想对你们下死手。
1812年战争在我的亲人们决定在路易斯安那取得胜利后就不算失败了。

Domnall Ballach
From: United Kingdom 来自：联合王国
The US thinking it could just roll in to China is akin to Churchill plotting to attack the USSR in Operation Unthinkable. In both cases, jubilant leaders unaffected by their decisions felt their nations' capacities to be far greater than they were. Just think of Vietnam, twenty years later. It's clear what would've happened in China.
—The only war the US ever lost was arguably a draw anyway, Vietnam, and it's because it was JUNGLE where guerrilla warfare was the norm, not so in Korea
The US has rarely lost a war, because a first-rate industrial power fighting primitive tribes and sugar islands rarely does. But, it's hard not to be moved to admit its record against insurgency is hit-and-miss, and as an occupying force the extent of Communist China would be well beyond its capacity. Don't take that as criticism: it's more a testament to China's size and thorniness. But either way, the US wouldn't have the men nor the funds to do that. It's an awful lot of ground to cover, far away and far inland.

美国认为它可以席卷中国但却判断类似的丘吉尔意图进攻苏联的计划是无稽之谈。在这两种情况中，洋洋自得的领导人们一点也不觉得他们的决定所需的国力远超现实。想想20年后的越战吧，很明显这就将会是在中国发生的情况。
—美国唯一输了或者说平局的是越南战争而不是朝鲜战争，这是因为那里是适合游击战的雨林，而朝鲜并非如此。
美国很少打败仗，因为一个一流的工业国很少会（像它那样）去打原始部落和小岛。它的平叛记录都是靠碰运气，而想要占领广阔的共产中国是痴人说梦。不要辩解：中国的规模和棘手程度明显超出它的能力。但无论哪种方法美国都没有（足够的）人力和资金完成这点。有太多的地区要占领，遥远而深入内陆这极为可怕。

phil1904
From: new caledonia 来自：新喀里多尼亚（法国海外属地）
—mentions of Chosin reservoir made me realise I have never read anything on that battle
is this book any good, does anyone know, or could anyone recommend one for me?
Here is a complete and interesting wikipedia.
Battle is considered like a "chinese pyrric victory" with heavy casualties which enabled UN forces to maintain a foothold in Korea. 
It was a close shave for UN troops that had also, heavy looses.

—提到长津湖我意识到我对这场战斗一无所知
链接略过
有谁知道这本书好不好？或者给我推荐一本。
这有一个详细而有趣的维基链接。
链接略过
这场战斗被认为是一场伴随着重大伤亡的“中国人得不偿失的胜利”，也导致了联军得以在朝鲜立足。
联军也是在伤亡惨重后侥幸逃出生天。

phil1904
From: new caledonia 来自：新喀里多尼亚（法国海外属地）
—This bit as a little misleading.
Chosin Reservoir was mostly a disaster for the Chinese. They failed to destroy the 1st Marine division, the objective for the battle, despite having surrounded it with several divisions. The 1st Marine Division successfully broke out of the encirclement and fought it's way south, leaving in it's wake two Chinese divisions so badly mauled that they ceased to exist. They were quite literally annihilated.
The 58th and 60th divisions of the PVA had only 200 effectives combined(!) left at battle's end. A single company could have been formed from the men of those two divisions who were not killed or wounded during the breakout, while the 1st Marine Division remained in action til war's end. Song Shi-Lun, the commanding general of the PLA's 9th Army Group (the army which had surrounded the 1st Marine Division), offered Mao his resignation in the aftermath.
Of course, that's all despite MacArthur. It was his blundering that put the 1st Marine Division in a position to be encircled in the first place, and it was only the skill and tenacity of the men, and leadership at the battalion, regimental, and division levels that saved it.
This bit as a little misleading to claim that "Chosin Reservoir was mostly a disaster for chinese".
They encircled Un troops, tried to anihilated them,failed to do it and had heavy casualties but it was a victory.
UN troops were encircled, they resisted in a desperate situation,they broke encirclement and retreated as fast as they could under a big Air force protection up to the Harbour of Hungham where they were evacuated, it was a defeat.
Casualties were heavy for UN units too.
Actually it was mostly a disaster for UN army and not for chinese.
Please read souce above mentionned, that's a good and complete one.

—此处有点误导性。
长津湖主要对于中国人是一场大败。尽管用几个师包围但他们没能完成消灭陆战一师这个战役目标。陆战一师成功打破了包围群并一路向南打，被它甩在后面的两个中国师伤亡惨重可以说全军覆没。
.........
断言“长津湖主要对于中国人是一场大败”才是有误导性的。
他们包围联军并试图消灭他们，虽然失败了且伤亡惨重但仍是一次胜利。
联军被包围了并在绝境中反击，他们打破了包围圈然后在强大空军的掩护下尽可能快的逃到兴南港撤离，这是一次失败。
联合国军也同样伤亡惨重。
事实上这主要对于联军是场惨败而不是对中国人。
请读一下上面提到的链接，说得很好也很详细。

scgrimsley
From: GB 来自：大不列颠
—1812 was a loss until my relatives decided to win it in Louisiana.
The result of the 1812 war was a draw at the least,remember we burnt your capital forcing the President to run,admittedly the American navy had some success but nothing was gained by either side tbf.

—1812年战争在我的亲人们决定在路易斯安那取得胜利后就不算失败了。
1812年战争至少也是个平局，别忘了我们烧了你们的首都逼得你们的总统逃跑，当然美国海军确实有些胜仗但两边都没占到什么便宜。

Naomasa298（这位是版主）
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire 来自：约克郡人民共和国
If this turns into nationalist tub-thumping, I'm going to get very annoyed. Just so you all know.

如果本帖变成了狂热民族主义宣传，我会很不爽的。你们知道这点。