中国鬼城仅仅是西方的政治宣传吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：戈登·弗里曼-审核者：capsclock------------

(If you could add some photos too that would be lovely. I just love photos of the Chinese Ghost Cities <3)

（如果你能上个图的话会很不错。我只是很喜欢中国鬼城的照片 <3 ）


-------------译者：wljzjy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Johan Dahlberg works at Fritidsresor
Written Jul 27 2016
Partly yes. Not propaganda but certainly exaggerations for effect.

部分是吧。不是刻意的政治宣传但为了新闻效果还是有特意的夸大。

There are some great answers here explaining how these ghost cities came to be and they are very much a real thing but it is also very exaggerated in Western media. I visited Ordos one of the most famous of these cities I'm 2014.

这有一些很好的答案解释了这些鬼城如何形成的，鬼城的确是真实存在的事情但西方媒体也夸大了它的严重程度。2014年我去参观了最出名的鬼城之一 鄂尔多斯。

Now to be fair this was five+ years after they were real ghost cities so a lot could have changed but it was around the time that mainstream media articles about them were popular. It was like every travel website wrote about them though no one had even been there to confirm. In the media Ordos for example was claimed to be built to house a million but now stood completely empty except for a few government people.

现在平心而论，在它们变成真正的鬼城之后已经过去了5年所以很多事情已经改变了，但在当时主流媒体上报道鬼城的文章是很火的。就像每个旅游网站都会提到它们但从没有人去那儿验证过。举个例子，媒体报道鄂尔多斯想要建一座能容纳百万人生活的城市但现在除了少数政府人物在那生活外整座城是空的。

-------------译者：wljzjy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

A few signs that they were exaggerating:

这有一些证据证明它是被夸大了：

1) Ordos is actually a very large and populated city. It's only a part of that city the Kangbashi district that is considered a ghost city. That district was PLANNED to house a million but only housing for a couple of hundred thousand was actually built. Pretty much every article I read in advance failed to mention this claiming it was an empty one million plus ghost city.

1）鄂尔多斯的确是一个面积广大人口密集的城市。这个城市只有一部分也就是康巴什区才被叫做鬼城。这个区域曾被计划要建造能居住百万人的新区而实际上最后只建造了能居住几十万人的住房。而之前几乎我读过的每一篇文章都没提过这一点，都在强调这是一个能容纳一百多万人口的空无一人的鬼城。

2) Around 100 000 people actually lived there (might even be more now). This number was probably lower originally but many of the articles were new and used old figures because it sounded better. Compared to the planned 1 000 000 people that's a big difference and a whole lot of empty but 100 000 still means a lot of activity. The city center is beautiful with a lot of art. The museum was open and had a few good exhibitions.

2）大约有十万人住在这儿（可能现在更多了）。原先可能还没有这么多人但一些新文章仍使用旧数据因为那样听起来更耸人听闻。十万人和计划的一百万人相比区别很大而且会显得城市很空旷，但有十万人居住仍然意味着城市里会有许多活动。城市中心摆放着许多艺术品，装饰的十分漂亮。博物馆也开着里面充满了漂亮的展品。

-------------译者：wljzjy-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

3) There's even a busy McDonald's in Kangbashi. NO ONE mentioned that because that would completely destroy the illusion of a ghost city.

3）康巴什区甚至有个很忙碌的麦当劳店。也从没有人提及这个因为这会彻底摧毁这是座鬼城的幻觉。

4) When I booked the train ticket from Beijing with the help of a Chinese friend she asked why on earth would I want to go there? I explained the appeal. She didn't see it. To her it was just a regular city no special tourist attractions to see there.

4）当我在中国友人的帮助下订了一张从北京出发的火车票时，她问我究竟为什么一定要去鄂尔多斯。我向她解释了鬼城对我的吸引力而她完全不能理解。在她看来这只是一个十分普通的中国城市并没有什么值得游客去的特别景点。

To summarise yes these cities are vast and lonely but they are not empty. You can walk in the middle of multi lane streets with low traffic but not no trwffic. A car will occasionally pass you and you might have to wait to get that deserted street photo. Most of the city center blocks are full of people. Outskirt blocks have maybe one or two out of 20 apartments occupied. So the apartment blocks are lonely but not empty.

总结一下 这些城市是很广阔荒凉但它并不是空无一人的。走在多车道的街道上车流量会很少但不是没有，一辆辆车会不时经过你可能得等待一会儿才能拍下像是被废弃的街道的照片。大多数城市中心区挤满了人，郊区地带20座公寓里可能有一两座是有人的，所以公寓大楼很荒凉但不是一个人也没有。

What struck me most with my visit though was all the art. Beautiful art! Huge parks and squares but only a disproportionate few people in them to enjoy it. A bizarre experience to say the least but not more bizarre than it was for my local taxi driver (plenty of taxis in Kangbashi) who saw white people for probably the first time of her life :)

在旅行中最让我印象深刻的就是艺术品，美妙的艺术！巨大的公园和广场只有很少的人在欣赏使用它们，和它们的面积相比显得有些不太均衡。这对我来说是一次奇异的体验但至少不会比载我的当地出租车司机（康巴什区有许多出租车）还要难以想象，这可能是她有生以来第一次看到外国人 :)

 -------------译者：capsclock-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Sthitapragnya Deshpande worked at China
Written Aug 5 2016
While their existence is not propaganda (there are a few of them) their exaggerated importance is western propaganda.

虽然它们的存在不是政治宣传（其中小部分是），但是它们夸张的重要性却是西方的政治宣传。

It would be akin to other nations highlighting gun crime in America to say that USA is an unsafe country.

这就像是其他国家强调美国的枪支犯罪以表明美国是一个不安全的国家。

For every one ghost city there are at least 10 similar cities that have done very well and perhaps 20 more that have done well. It is just that the scale at which such things are done in China is staggering to the western observer where even a small set of 25 story buildings coming up post 2008 is considered unique. As I write I can see at least ten fifty story buildings 9apartment complexes) being constructed from my window.

每一个鬼城都对应着10多个甚至20多个与其类似但建设的非常好的城市。只不过中国这些鬼城的规模令西方观察家感到吃惊，因为2008年之后的西方国家即便是修建一小群25层的建筑也被认为是一件稀罕事。写下这些文字时，我向窗外看去，至少有十栋五十层的公寓楼正在修建中。

-------------译者：柿子先生-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

I know that many will get sold many wont and some will actually be lived in. But I also know that hundreds of labourers and others got jobs because of these. And the people how invested int he building have so much money that a non-sale is not going to reduce them to paupers. Unlike what would happen if a similar occurence were to happen in another country. hence I say that their exaggerated importance appears to be western propaganda.

我知道有的地块将会被出售有的不会，而一些地方将会住人。但我也知道许多许多劳动力因为这里得以维生。虽然人们在建筑设施的大量投资，但是即便不出售也不会沦为穷人，不像类似现象发生在其它国家的那样。因此那些夸大其词都是西方的政治宣传。

And since you like photos here is one in a pretty remote part of China - Inner Mongolia (I know that people will be living here in ten or twenty years - I have seen these dramatic changes in other Chinese cities too that had empty sky scrapers ten years ago but are now full of people)

其中一张照片是中国极偏远的地区--内蒙古（我知道人们在十年或二十年后将会生活在这里-我曾经在中国的其它城市见到过天翻地覆的变化，摩天大楼里从十年前的空无一人到现在的熙熙攘攘）



Kangbashi new Area Ordos Inner Mongolia - Looks more like Canary wharf at night time to me!

内蒙古鄂尔多斯新区康巴什--夜幕看起来更像是伦敦金融区！



Yujiapu outside Tianjin

天津于家堡

Sources of Images -

图片来源

1) Wired - The Unreal Eerie Emptiness of China’s ‘Ghost Cities’

1）连线--中国鬼城的虚幻和诡秘

2) Forbes - China's Largest Ghost City Is Now Almost Completely Full - But There's A Twist

2）福布斯--中国最大鬼城已经满员？不，现实不是这样的

-------------译者：高辛琅华-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Desmond Ng A Chinese by birth a Chinese by upbringing.
upxed Dec 5
Sadly no. The Chinese Ghost Cities are far from Western propaganda they are very real.

非常遗憾的说，不是。中国鬼城远非西方宣传，而是真实存在的。

A photo taken of one such city.

一张鬼城照片

Chinese Ghost Cities are the unofficial names of cities that were built to harbor millions of residents but have been left empty. This mostly came about as a combination of three factors.

鬼城是那些本来给上百万人住但最后变成空城的城市非官方说法。产生原因有三:

1) Many were built during the Chinese economic boom of the early 2000s. They were meant to house the millions of Chinese who were rapidly becoming affluent enough to move to more lavish areas. But then the economic slowdown of 2008 happened. Many Chinese deemed it too risky to just uproot everything and move; and so stayed put.

其一，许多建于2000s华夏经济爆发。他们的意义就是表明数百万的中国人迅速致富，可以搬到更好的区域。但是2008年经济增速减缓，许多人认为抛弃一切搬迁太冒险，所以留着不走。

2) A large majority of these houses were never going to be lived in by their owners. Many were using this as an investment by buying them when housing prices were at an all time low they would then sell them later for large profits. But then a combination of factors meant that an estimated 20% of flats in these ghost towns are owned by people refusing to move into them or sell them.

其二，大部分房子业主不住。许多用来投资，低入高出，等待涨房价获利。但是，结合实际，大概百分之20的鬼城公寓在那些不愿入住或者卖掉它们的人手里。

-------------译者：capsclock-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

3) In 2010 there were over a dozen identified ghost cities in China. The most populated had 40000 people in it but the city was meant to hold 30 million [upxe: really 3 million; see below]. This lead to few companies and shop owners setting up shop there due to little profit margin so even fewer people wanted to move further contributing to the empty cities.

3）2010年，中国有十几个被确认的鬼城。人口数量最多的为40000人，但这座城市原本可容纳3000万人[注意：实际为300万，见下文]。这就导致几乎没有公司或商人去哪开设店铺，因为利润率太低了。这样一来，更没有人愿意搬到那里去，这进一步导致了城市空置。

EDIT: I did some further research. Apparently the 30 million people city I mentioned now has a population of 2.71 million so it’s no longer considered a ghost city. But as of 2015 there are now 16 ghost cities despite 4 cities being booted off the list.

编辑：我做了一些深入研究。显然，我上面提到的3000万人口的城市，现在的人口为271万，所以它不再是一个鬼城了。但截止2015年，仍然存在16座鬼城，尽管有4座城市已经从名单上剔除。

EDIT 2: So apparently the sources that I consulted were badly translated and the 30 million people city is actually meant for 3 million people.

编辑 2：显然，我所参考的原始资料翻译的很拙劣，那座3000万人口的城市实际上是300万人。

-------------译者：wg138940-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Ray Comeau A decade in China interest in geopolitics
Written Jul 17 2016
A2A
Are their cities that are largely vacant in China? Yes there are. The most famous is Ordos in Inner Mongolia. Been reported on in western media about every other year since 2008.

中国有大部分空置的城市吗？确实有的。最出名的是内蒙古的鄂尔多斯市，从2008年开始，每隔一年都会被西方媒体报道。

Ordos has the old city close to coal mines and the gov’t there decided to build a new clean city further away. Sold a lot of land to land developers.

鄂尔多斯市的老城区靠近煤田，于是当地政府决定在远处建造一座新城，就售卖了很多土地给开发商们。

Chinese developments take many years to complete and they do things on a huge scale. Nothing like ever done in the West. A typical housing complex can hold 30 highrise buildings each 30+ stories high. It can take 5 or more years to complete a housing complex. No one is allowed to move in until the whole complex is completed.

中国的建设花费了很多年来完成，而且规模庞大，这种事请是在西方从未有过的。典型的住宅区里，可以容纳30栋30层以上的高楼，它至少要5年才能完工。整个住宅区在完工之前不能有人搬进去住。

Is Ordos sill empty? No. Some people have moved into the new town but others find the prices too high and too far from work. Just wait another 5 years or so and see what happens

鄂尔多斯依旧是一座空城吗？并不是。一些人已经搬进了新的城镇，但是其他人发现价格太高或里工作地太远。再等上5年，看看会发生什么。

Why was this built? The Inner Mongolian gov’t get’s it’s revenue from mining and sales of real estate. In this case the local gov’t gambled the people would relocate and mining jobs would expand.

为什么要建造这座新城？因为内蒙古政府会从矿业和房地产销售中收益。在这种情况下政府打赌人们会搬到新城，同时扩大采矿规模。

Are there many ghost cities. Only a few I know of and again Ordos the poster child for the worse case.

中国有很多鬼城吗？我只听说过几座，而鄂尔多斯是其中最坏情况的代表。

-------------译者：capsclock-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

In the last 30 years China has been urbanizing. People moving out of the country into the cities for work. It has been urbanizing at a rate of roughly 1% per year. Question —- How many is that? Lets round it out to 13 million people a year (or say 1 million people a month).

在过去30年中，中国一直在城市化。人们离开乡村进入到城市工作。每年的城市化率约为1%。
问题 —— 到底有多少人？我们取一个整数1300万人每年（或者说100万人每月）

How are you going to have enough place to house 1000000 people per month moving into cities if the housing is not already built and ready for occupancy? It all has to be pre-built including new infrastructure - water sewer electricity roads. This has been gong on for 30 years.

如果房屋没有建好或是不能入住，你怎么能有足够的地方去容纳每月进入城市的1000000人？所以必须事先建好，包括新的基础设施 —— 排水设施、电力设施和道路。这已经持续了30年。

So Ordos missed the boat to this point and not many people want to go up north to work in the mines.

不过鄂尔多斯错过了时机，而且没有多少人愿意去北方的矿场里工作。

Where I live we grow by roughly 400000 people per year (or 1000+ people per day every day). So maybe you can imagine how many years in advance developers need to build to accommodate the people arriving.

我所在的地方，人口每年约增加400000人（或者1000+人每天）。所以你应该能想象，为了安置到来的人，开发商们需要提前多少年来建设？

Hope this helps understand the situation.

希望有助于理解这一状况。