白人自由主义者是否会在意白人在他们国家成为少数族裔？ [美国媒体]

Would white liberals care if the whites in their country became a minority?

白人自由主义者是否在意白人在他们国家成为少数族裔？




Susan James
Black woman: “I don't think this country gives me a fair shake because I’m a minority here.”
White man: “What are you talking about? This country gives everyone the greatest opportunity to develop themselves despite any race, creed, national origin, gender, whatever. It doesn't matter if you are black, white, brown, purple or green. You should be grateful you live in this country.”
Black woman: “Uh, ok, if you say so.”
Ten years later.
White man: “Doesn't anyone care if whites in their country become a minority?”
Black woman: “Wait, I thought you said that race didn't matter. What about all that black, white, purple, green stuff? Why aren't you grateful to live in this country now?”
White man: “Well, I've become more articulate in the past few years. What I meant to say is that you black, purple, green people should be grateful to live in a country that white males have built for you. We made this country great and if we lose control then all the greatness will disappear. Make America greatly white again!”
Black woman: “I don't think this country gives me a fair shake because I’m a minority here.”
White male: “I’m starting to understand what you mean.”

黑人妇女：“我不认为这个国家给了我一个均等的机会，因为我在这儿是少数族裔。”
白人：“你在说什么？这个国家不管你是任何种族、信仰、民族出身、性别等等，都给了最大的机会让你去发展自己。不管你是黑色，白色，棕色，绿色或紫色。你应该感谢你生活在这个国家。”
黑人妇女：“呃，好吧，如果你这么说。”

十年后

白人：“没有任何人在意白人在“他们”的国家正在成为少数吗？”
黑人妇女：“等等，我记得你说过种族是无关紧要的。所谓的黑色，白色，紫色，绿色又怎么样？你现在为什么不对生活在这个国家感到感恩？”
白人：“好吧，在过去的几年里我已经想通了。我之前说的意思是，你们黑色，紫色，绿色的人应该感激生活在一个白人为你建造的国家里。是我们使这个国家伟大，如果我们失去对这个国家的控制，那么所有的伟大就会消失。让美国再次变白！”
黑人妇女：“我不认为这个国家给了我一个均等的机会，因为我在这儿是少数族裔。”
白人男性：“我开始明白你的意思了。”

Gareth Jones
Whites have become a minority (less than 50% of the population) in the city that I live in, Vancouver B.C. This fact has not changed the quality of life in the city, which was ranked the third most livable city in the world in 2016. It used to be first, but Melbourne is doing very well. Our system of governance is unchanged. Newcomers spend time and money mastering the English language and Western culture. Their efforts have provided me with a living. So, no, far from feeling threatened, I feel happy that my own culture is both welcoming and resilient.

在我所居住的城市温哥华，白人已经成为少数了（低于总人口的50%）。这一事实并没有改变城市的生活质量，这个城市在2016被列为世界第三大宜居城市。这是第一次，但是墨尔本做得也很好。我们的管理体系并没有改变。新居民花钱花时间来掌握英语和西方文化。他们的努力是我谋生的手段。所以，不，我远没有受到威胁的感觉，而是为自己的文化有弹性和受欢迎而感到高兴。

Fred Diaz
That is amazing. I visited Vancouver in around 1970 and it was virtually all White, with the odd Korean shop here and there.

这很惊人。我在1970年左右访问温哥华的时候几乎所有都是白人，而且到处都是奇怪的韩国商店。

Judi Golden
No, because whiteness doesn’t exist. It’s a construct. It basically just means that my ancestors were born in a place with less sunlight. I have less melanin in my skin, so what? My ancestral heritage is mostly German, but I don’t celebrate Oktoberfest or any other German tradition. It isn’t a loss to me.
The “white race” is a meaningless concept and only used tofor the purpose of division and preservation of a certain status that has been historial given to us melanin deficient folk.

不会，因为所谓的“白人”是不存在的。这只是一种身体构造。它只是意味着我的祖先出生在一个地方不太有阳光的地方。我的皮肤很少黑色素，那又怎么样？我的祖先是德国人，但我不庆祝啤酒节或任何其他的德国传统。这不是我的损失。
“白种人”是一个毫无意义的概念，只用于划分和保留我们这些缺乏和色素民族之间的区别。

Andy Waddell
See this guy? He moved here as a little boy from Mexico. He spoke no English. Was he white? Is he white now?
I am a high school teacher in a very racially diverse school so the concept of race comes up frequently. Students often make comments about my being white, or themselves not being white. Many times, I have laid my arm down on their desks, beside their own arms, to show that my skin is darker than theirs. This usually elicits a nervous chuckle, but it begs an important question: what is the definition of “White”?
At various times in our history, the following people have not been considered white: Jews (still a point of contention among the “alt-right”), Irish (and others of the “Celtic Race”), Slavic people (including Poles, Czechs and Slovaks, Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Macedonians, Slovenes, and Bulgarians), Southern Europeans (including Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, etc.)
On the other hand, people from India (the original Aryans) have been considered white, Asian, and sometimes in their own category. Likewise, North Africans have been considered white in some censuses, and not in others.
So how will we adapt to the new reality of the white minority? My guess is we’ll redefine whiteness.
As to how liberals feel about it, it makes no difference. Change is coming and we will adapt.



看到这个家伙了吗？当他还是个小男孩的时候就从墨西哥搬到了这里。他不会说英语。他以前是白人吗？他现在是白人吗？
我是一个种族非常多元化的高中学校里的一名老师，所以种族的概念经常会出现。学生经常就我是白人或者他们自己不是白人发表评论。很多时候，我把胳膊放在他们的桌子上，在他们的胳膊旁边，以表明我的皮肤比他们的黑。这通常会引起一种紧张的咯咯笑声，但这也回避了一个重要的问题：“白人”的定义是什么？

在我们历史上的不同时期，以下的人并不被认为是白人：犹太人（在“另类右翼”里仍是一个争论的焦点），爱尔兰人（以及凯尔特人的其他种族），斯拉夫人（包括波兰，捷克和斯洛伐克，俄罗斯、白俄罗斯、塞尔维亚、克罗地亚，乌克兰，波斯尼亚，马其顿人，斯洛维尼亚和保加利亚人），南欧人（包括意大利人、西班牙人、葡萄牙人，希腊人，等）
另一方面，有时在亚洲自己的范围内，印度人（原始雅利安人）被认为是白人。同样的，北非人在一些统计中被认为是白人，而不是其他的。

那么，我们如何去适应白种人成为少数的新现实？我的猜想是我们将会重新定义白种人。
至于自由主义者对这种现实的感受如何，没有什么不同。变化正在到来，而我们将适应它。

Shaun Lawson
The problem for me is not so much whether American whites like me become racial minorities as whether America can assimilate its immigrants well, which it has and likely will continue to do, and get a consensus of white people to allow them to assimilate, which we have generally done better than Europe but still not to a sustainable degree.
Terrorism is not a statistically significant threat, though it is an eye-catching and vote-shifting one. Immigrant crime is rarely as common as it’s depicted; at least in America the crime rate is higher among native-born citizens than immigrants.
Catholics weren’t white, for most of our history.
For a time in the colonial period, the French weren’t white. They fit in by becoming English and they did it without us noticing: Gillette, Chevrolet, Juilliard, Du Pont.
Jews weren’t white.
Italians, Poles, eastern and southern Europeans, weren’t white.
The Irish weren’t really white.
This is why people get fucking upset when people compare things like BLM to the KKK. They’re not saying “only black lives matter” or “only our religion/race/group matters,” they’re saying “it’s not okay to beat us up and persecute us and ban us from public life or treat us as a bunch of thugs to be shot at whim with no consequences because we’re different.” They don’t want the privilege of living the way “real” whites did in the 1800s. They want the privilege of living the way we do, now.
No, becoming a minority doesn’t make me afraid. I think if you get threatened by the idea “What if minorities gain control and treat us the way we’ve been treating them?” then there are deeper problems at stake.
But I am scared by the fact that some people’s fear of the unfamiliar and ignorance of the past or others’ perspectives can be used against them by political agents for political means.
I’m scared that people are willing to vote for racism and nativism, and support and foster it within an extremely dominant political party, for the sake of lower tax rates and slashed regulation and welfare.
In 2014, 1.3 million people from other countries immigrated to the United States. I almost put the word “foreign” in that sentence, but it’s not even a suitable adjective for describing potential future citizens. People that make us stronger and richer and our way of life more secure. Not all of them stayed. Many others left. But many will stay, and if they didn’t come here we’d have a shrinking population. They were not all Mexican or Latino: Indians comprised about 150,000, Chinese and Mexicans about 130,000 each, and then Canada and the Philippines at about 40k each. 
If we cut these numbers off or severely reduce them, we will have severe economic and much deeper ideological and identity issues to face.
If we don’t cut them off, eventually America’s color palette is going to get a lot more brown. You know, the color that America’s white people go to tanning salons to become.
The issues that are traditionally associated with minorities I don’t see as fundamentally being about minorities.
-Minorities are a drain on the welfare state: they’re a much bigger boost to the economy, and the welfare state is just what we find politically necessary to fill in the gaps of a flawed economy. The real problem is the flawed economy, which needs a focus on growth, on nationwide entrepreneurship, on technical training in white- and blue-collar fields, and a general change in incentives.
-Minorities are criminals: um, not especially, but to the extent that the events these people cite are not caused by economic, social, or urban factors, there will always be a group of people attempting to stand outside mainstream society and rebel against things like paying taxes and a police state. Those are literally the things people died for at Lexington and Concord. It’s our responsibility to give them carrots as well as sticks, encouraging them to assimilate and giving them a path to a normal life.
On illegal immigrants: An unstoppable, though to a degree controllable, flow of illegal immigration across the Mexican border and the Gulf is also a fact of geography and economics. We kind of need to resign ourselves to the fact that people will come here, that most of them will get jobs as fruit pickers and retail workers and waiters and cooks and raise decent American children, and we need to focus on assimilating, employing, and helping the rest adapt and behave, because the alternative (which we have) is a secret police state that produces massive tax expenses and endless personal tragedy.

对我来说，问题不在于美国像我这样的白人是否会成为少数民族，而在于美国是否能很好地吸收移民，这种吸收之前一直存在并可能持续下去，让移民获得白人的共识，使他们能够被同化，在这方面我们通常做得比欧洲更好，但仍然没有达到可持续的程度。

恐怖主义不是一个显着的威胁，虽然它很引人注目且能左右选票。移民的犯罪并不像描述的那么普遍；至少在美国，本地人的犯罪率高于移民。
我们历史上的大部分时间里，天主教徒都不是白人。
在殖民时期，法国不是白人的。
他们通过英语融入我们的社会，并且在我们没有察觉到的情况下做到了：吉列、雪佛兰、茱莉亚，杜邦。
犹太人不是白人。
意大利、波兰、东欧和南欧的人都不是白人。
爱尔兰人并不是真的白人。

这就是为什么当人们把“黑命贵”组织和三K党拿来比较时会感到非常不安，因为黑命贵组织不是说“只要黑人才命贵”或者“只有我们的宗教/种族/团体才是重要的”，他们说的是“毒打我们、压迫我们、禁止我们的公众生活或者只因为我们是不同的，就可以把我们当作一群暴徒随意射击，而不用承担任何后果，这些都是不对的。”他们不想要美国19世纪“真正”的白人享有的那种特权，他们只是想要我们现在生活所享有的权利。
不，成为少数不会让我感到害怕。我想如果你是这么想的“要是少数族裔不断增长控制了国家，然后像我们曾经对待他们那样对待我们怎么办？”那你的这个想法就很危险。
但我害怕的是有些人会由于对陌生的恐惧和对过去的无知或者其他人的观点，会被一些政客利用，用政治手段来对他们（黑人、少数族裔）。

我害怕人们会因为降低税率和削减规章和福利而愿意投票给一个种族主义和排外主义的政党，支持它并且巩固它的地位。
在2014年，有130万人来自其他国家的人移民到美国。我几乎把“外国”这个词放在那个句子里，但它不是一个用来形容未来潜在公民的合适的形容词。这些人使我们更强大、更富有，使我们的生活方式更安全。并不是所有的人都留下来，有很多人离开。但也有很多会留下，如果他们不来这里，我们的人口就会不断萎缩。他们不全是墨西哥人或拉丁美洲人：印度人约占150000人，中国人和墨西哥人每个占130000人左右，然后加拿大和菲律宾每个大概有400000人。
如果我们大幅度减少这个数字，我们将面临严峻的经济和更深刻的意识形态和身份问题。
如果我们不减少这个数字，最终美国的调色板将会变得更加棕色。你懂的，这是美国白人去日光浴沙龙晒出来的颜色。
传统上被认为与少数族裔有关的问题，我认为根本不是少数族裔的问题。

——少数族裔是国家福利的无底洞：他们对经济是一个更大的推动力，而福利国家正是我们在政治上有必要填补的一个有缺陷的经济的空白。真正的问题在于，这个有缺陷的经济需要把焦点集中到经济增长、全国性的创业、对白领和蓝领专门的技术训练以及激励机制的改变上。
——少数族裔犯罪：嗯，这个没什么特别的，但这些人所提到的事件并不是由经济、社会或城市因素造成的，总会有一群人试图站在主流社会之外，反抗纳税和警察政权。这些东西事实上也是死在莱克星顿和康科德的人所争取的。给他们萝卜加大棒、鼓励他们融入社会以及给一条路让他们回到正常的生活是我们的责任。
非法移民：这个无法阻挡，虽然在一定程度上是可控的，但墨西哥边境和墨西哥湾的非法移民流动也是地理学和经济学的一个事实。我们稍微需要让自己认清非法移民一定会存在的这个事实，他们中的大多数将获得的就业机会为水果采摘工人、零售业工人、服务员、厨师和当体面的美国孩子的保姆，我们需要把重点放在吸收、利用，并帮助剩下的人去适应和表现上，因为替代（我们）的是一个产生大量的税收费用和无休止的个人悲剧的警察国家。

Franklin Veaux
I’m a white liberal. Speaking only for myself, no, I don’t care. I don’t care if the people around me look like me or not; I care what people do, not what they look like.
I just moved from Portland, Oregon, where white people are a solid majority, to Vancouver, Canada, where white people make up a minority. It has not harmed me in the slightest.

我是白人自由主义者。我仅代表我自己：不，我不关心。我不关心我周围的人看起来像不像我。我在乎的是他们会做什么，而不是看起来像什么。
我刚从白人占绝大多数的俄勒冈波特兰搬到了白人是少数的加拿大温哥华。这对我没有丝毫的伤害。

Marcus Geduld
For someone to care, I’d guess he’d have to feel some sort of kinship with other caucasians. If he was in a room with three strangers, and two of them were white, he’d have to feel as if he was somehow in the same tribe as them—even though he’d never met any of them.
I don’t feel that. The fact that I’m white and you’re white means nothing to me. I’m not claiming to be colorblind. I just don’t feel kinship to people with roughly my color of skin.
Many black American cultures (Asian American cultures, etc.) are alien to me, but so are lots of white American cultures, such as hockey-fan culture and white-Southern culture.
So, no, I don’t care which skin colors are in the majority and which are in the minority.
I’ve lived in places, such as Indiana, where almost everyone looked like me and other places, such as neighborhoods in Brooklyn, New York, where almost no one did—where I was the only white person in the grocery store. My life was pretty much the same in both sorts of places. So … shrug.
I’m not convinced that this has anything to do with my politics. Maybe, as people often do, I’ll get more conservative as I age. This has already happened to some extent. I was almost socialist in my 20s; I’m more center-ist, now. But my feelings about race haven’t changed. Racial purity is an issue for some conservatives; not all.
Incidentally, I now live in Atlanta, Georgia:
Black - 54%
White - 38.4%
White non-Hispanic - 33.3%

如果有人对此很关心，我想他一定会感到和其他白种人有某种血缘关系。如果他在一个有三个陌生人的房间里，其中两个是白人，他就得感觉自己和他们是同一个阵营的——即使他从来没见过他们中任何一个人。
我没有这种感觉。我是白人和你是白人这件事对我来说没有任何意义。我不是说我是色盲。我只是对肤色和我差不多的人没有亲近感。

对我来说，许多美国黑人文化（美国亚洲文化，等等）都是陌生的，但我同样对很多白人文化如曲棍球迷文化和白人南方文化感到陌生。

所以，不，我不在乎哪种肤色会是多数，哪种肤色会是少数。
我住的地方，如印第安娜，那里几乎每个人都和我一样。还有其他地方，比如纽约的布鲁克林区，几乎没人和我一样——在杂货店里我是唯一的白人。我的生活和这两类地方非常像。所以......无所谓。
我不认为这会和我的政治观点扯上关系。也许我也会像其他人一样，随着年龄的增长的越来越保守。这在某种程度上已经发生了，我20多岁的时候几乎是个社会主义者；我现在变得更加中庸了。但我对于种族的感受还没有改变。保持种族纯洁对“一些”保守派来说是个问题，但不是全部。

顺便说一句，我现在住在亚特兰大佐治亚州：
黑人——54%
白人——38.4
非西班牙裔白人- 33.3%

Jim Lloyd
I like diversity. Since your question is about skin pigmentation and the cultural notion of race, I’ll focus my answer on that attribute, but I prefer diversity for other attributes of human anatomy and culture too.
If I was suddenly put into a community where everyone had classic african pigmentation, or classic asian pigmentation, and I was the only person with “white”pigmentation, I’d almost certainly feel very awkward. But the reason for this would be the lack of diversity.
If instead I was put in a community with a spectrum of skin tones, but my white skin tone was less that 50%, I’d probably not even notice.
By the way, have you ever noticed how beautiful people can be with skin tones radically different from yours? If you haven’t, then I feel sorry for you.

我喜欢多样性。因为你的问题是关于皮肤色素沉着和种族文化观，我将把我的答案集中在那个属性上，但我更喜欢人类的解析和文化中其他更多样性的属性。如果我突然被放进了一个社区，其中每个人都有着典型的非洲或亚洲的肤色，我是唯一的白人，我肯定会觉得很尴尬。但造成这种情况的原因是缺乏多样性。
如果我被放在一个肤色不同的社区，而且白人的比率低于50%，那我可能甚至不会注意到。
顺便问一下，你有没有注意到和你肤色不同的人们的美丽？如果你没有，那么我为你感到难过。

Harry Wolfman
I’m white and Liberal. I live in London and in my borough (Tower Hamlets) ‘White British’ people are a minority (I believe we make up about 30% of the populace, compared with roughly 80% across the whole of the UK). The largest ethnic group are the Bangladeshis, but in general, it is a very diverse borough with a huge swathe of varying ethnicities and nationalities… And therefore cultures.
In terms of religion - Muslims make up the largest troupe at roughly 35%, Christians at roughly 27% and a good 21% identify themselves as having ‘no religion’ (here’s me). Of course we also have Sikhs, Hindis, Jews, Buddhists and others I’m sure!
I spend a lot of time in my area. I love it. I love the melting pot environment this diversity creates. We’re lucky enough to have places like Brick Lane… one of the best Sundays out London has to offer (in my opinion) - go check out the latest exhibition at one of the several galleries, pick up some vintage clothes, maybe a record or two, enjoy live music or other street performances of various kinds, grab a pint at Vibe Bar then a curry or hit the food market：
So no, I definitely do not care about my local living situation… I personally find most of the ‘non white British’ a lot friendlier… generally speaking. I have never felt intimidated or ‘isolated’ in my community. People are welcoming, even in the very densely populated Bangladeshi and Muslim areas (Whitechapel/Bethnal Green for example). Everybody speaks good English.
I don’t have my head in the sand though… there have been instances of tensions. One example I can think of was off the back of the Charlie Hedbo attack - there were instances of anger and intimidation toward shop owners with ‘Je Suis Charlie’ in their windows. Very isolated though and no violence. This sort of issue is a much wider one, and I don’t think isolationism would help… it would only fan the flame.
Would I be happy for my local living situation to be scaled up nationally? Sure, I don’t see why not. We still have plenty of traditional pubs and the like in my London Borough… it is still a thoroughly British place. A lack of diversity would be boring.

我是白人和自由主义者。我住在伦敦，在我的选区（陶尔哈姆莱茨）里，“英国白人”是少数（我相信我们占人口的30%，与之相比，整个英国白人的比率是80%左右）。最大的族群是孟加拉人，但总的来说，这是一个非常多样化的自治市镇，拥有着大量不同的种族和民族以及文化。

就宗教而言—穆斯林是最大的团体，占35%左右，基督徒大约占27%以及21%的人确定自己“没有宗教信仰”（包括我）。当然，我确信还有锡克教徒、犹太教徒、印度教徒和佛教徒。

我在这呆了很久，我爱这里。我爱创造了这种多样性的熔炉环境。能拥有像布里克巷这样的地方是我们的幸运...伦敦所提供的周末是最好的之一（在我看来）——去看看几家画廊的最新展览，挑选一些老式服装，也许再挑一两张唱片，欣赏现场音乐或其他各种街头表演，在酒吧喝一品脱的酒，然后去吃咖喱或者逛个小吃街。



所以，不，我完全不关系我在当地的生活状况...我个人认为大多数的非白人英国人都很友好...普遍来说。在我的社区我从来没有感觉到害怕或者“孤立”。人们都很殷勤好客，即使在孟加拉穆斯林非常密集的地区（比如怀特查佩尔/贝思纳尔格林）也是如此。每个人都能说一口流利的英语。

不过我也没有把头埋在沙子里...这里“曾经”有过紧张的局势。我能想到的一个例子是在查理周刊袭击事件后——有人对窗口贴着“我是查利”的店主十分愤怒和进行了恐吓。当时双方非常隔离但没有暴力发生。这类问题是一个更广泛的问题，我不认为孤立主义会有帮助…这只会火上浇油。

我会为我在当地的生活状况在全国范围内扩大感到高兴吗？当然啦，我不明白为什么不。我们仍然有许多传统的酒吧，就像在我生活的伦敦的自治市里一样...它仍然是一个完全英国的地方。缺乏多样性是令人厌烦的。

James Martin
I'm white, male, and liberal. I don't worry about the racial demographics of the US, where I live.
I do worry about regressive beliefs and systems of the same. So I worry about the racism and xenophobia that is currently on the rise in the US and in parts of Western Europe. I also worry about Islamism (not Islam in general, but the fundamentalist, pro-jihadist, intolerant branches of it). I worry about religious fundamentalism in general, because it is destructive and at odds with liberal, democratic, pluralistic values.
And I worry that we won't take climate change seriously until it’s too late to matter. But that is just one instance of a wider concern about anti-science and anti-intellectual movements, like Trumpism, which are currently ascendant here.
But skin color? Doesn't bother me.

我是一个白人，男性以及自由主义者。我不担心美国——这个我居住的地方的种族人口。
我担心的是信仰和体制的退化。因此，我担心美国和西欧部分地区正在上升的种族主义和仇外心理。我也担心伊斯兰教（不是一般的伊斯兰教，而是原教旨主义者，支持圣战，缺乏宽容的分支）。我担心一般的宗教原教旨主义，因为它是破坏性的，与自由，民主，多元化的价值观不符。
我还担心我们要到不可挽回的时候才去关心气候问题。但这只是对反科学和反智运动更广泛关注的一个例子，比如特朗普主义，目前在美国的势头正在上升。
至于皮肤的颜色？它对我毫无困扰。

Viktor T. Toth,
I am white.
I didn’t used to think of myself as a liberal, but I guess that was back in more innocent times, before simply not being a xenophobic, racist misogynist was enough to get you labeled as a liberal.
I honestly don’t care, nor do I keep track of, which “race” is a majority in my country or neighborhood. I do care about “liberal” values: the rejection of xenophobia, racial discrimination, equal treatment of people regardless of their gender, color of their skin, country of birth or religion (or lack thereof.)

我是白人。
我不认为我是个自由主义者，但我认为它回到了天真的时代，在以前，对排外、种族主义的厌恶根本不足以让你标记自己为自由主义者。
老实说我不关心，也不知道，在我的国家或地区，哪个“种族”占多数。我只关心“自由”的价值观：反对仇外心理、种族歧视、不论其性别、肤色、出生国或宗教（或者无信仰）都平等对待他们。

Glenn Rocess
Why? It's going to happen - barring nationwide catastrophe or civil war, we white will be a minority in a decade or two - the different birth rates make it all but a certainty. So if it will happen anyway, why stress about it? Besides, it's about time that those of us whites who can't see past the color of a person’s skin learned to judge by the content of character rather than the color of the skin.

为什么？这正在发生——除非发生全国性的灾难或战争，不然我们白人将在十年或二十年内成为少数——这是由不同的出生率决定的。所以如果这无论如何都会发生，为什么还要强调它呢？此外，是时候让我们那些除了肤色什么也看不见的白人去学习根据品格而不是肤色来评价一个人了。