李丽娜：作为一个囚犯我在朝鲜学到了什么 [美国媒体]

About the talk:
In March 2009, North Korean soldiers captured journalist Euna Lee and her colleague Laura Ling while they were shooting a documentary on the border with China. The courts sentenced them to 12 years of hard labor, but American diplomats eventually negotiated their release. In this surprising, deeply human talk, Lee shares her experience living as the enemy in a detention center for 140 days -- and the tiny gestures of humanity from her guards that sustained her.
This talk was presented to a local audience at TEDxIndianaUniversity, an independent event. TED editors featured it among our selections on the home page.

演讲相关：
2009年3月，当李丽娜及同事凌志美在中朝边境拍摄一部纪录片时，被朝鲜军人发现并抓捕。朝鲜法院判处她们12年的劳改，但美国外交官最终还是通过协商使她们获得了释放。在这个令人惊讶的、深入人性的演讲中，李分享了她的经历：她被当作敌人在一个拘留中心关了140天，是她的守卫做出的那人性化的小举动让她得以坚持了下来。
这次演讲是在TEDx印第安纳大学的一个独立活动上向当地听众展示的。TED的编辑们把它放在主页上供大家选择。



【演讲正文】
I recently read about what the young generation of workers want in Harvard Business Review. One thing that stuck out to me was: don't just talk about impact, but make an impact. I'm a little bit older than you, maybe much older than you, but this is exactly the same goal that I had when I was in college. I wanted to make my own impact for those who live under injustice; it's the reason that I became a documentary journalist, the reason I became a prisoner in North Korea for 140 days.

最近我在哈佛商业评论中读到关于年轻一代的工作者想要什么。对于我来说，有一件事很重要:不要仅仅谈论影响，而是要去产生影响。我比你们大一点，可能还比你们大很多，但这和我上大学时的目标是一致的。我希望自己能影响到那些生活在不公正环境里的人儿;这就是我成为一个纪录片记者的原因，也因此我在朝鲜当了140天的囚犯。

It was March 17, 2009. It is St. Patrick's Day for all of you, but it was the day that turned my life upside down. My team and I were making a documentary about North Korean refugees living below human life in China. We were at the border. It was our last day of filming. There was no wire fence or bars or sign to show that it is the border, but this is a place that a lot of North Korean defectors use as an escape route. It was still winter, and the river was frozen. When we were in the middle of the frozen river, we were filming about the condition of the cold weather and the environment that North Koreans had to deal with when they seek their freedom. And suddenly, one of my team members shouted,"Soldiers!" So I looked back, and there were two small soldiers in green uniforms with rifles, chasing after us. We all ran as fast as we could. I prayed that, please don't let them shoot my head. And I was thinking that, if my feet are on Chinese soil, I'll be safe. And I made it to Chinese soil. Then I saw my colleague Laura Ling fall on her knees. I didn't know what to do at that short moment, but I knew that I could not leave her alone there when she said, "Euna, I can't feel my legs."

那是2009年3月17日。对于你们来说，这一天是圣特帕里克节，但正是这一天让我的生活天翻地覆。我和我的团队正在制作一部纪录片，讲述的是朝鲜难民在中国的悲惨生活。我们在边境，这是我们的最后一天拍摄。这里没有铁丝网或栅栏，也没有迹象表明它是边境，但这恰是许多朝鲜叛逃者用来逃跑的地方。当时是冬天，河水已经结冰了。我们来到冻结的河流中间，拍摄寒冷的天气环境，这正是寻求自由的朝鲜人所必须应对的环境。突然，我的一个同事喊道:“有士兵！“我回头看了看，有两名身穿绿色制服的小个子军人拿着步枪跑了过来。我们赶紧用尽全力逃跑，我一边跑一边祈祷——请不要让他们射我的头。我当时在想，如果我踏上了中国的土地，我就安全了。我成功的到达了中国境内。然后我看到我的同事凌志美跪在地上。在那短暂的瞬间，我不知道该做什么，但当她说道:“丽娜，我感觉不到我的腿了“。我知道，我不能把她独自留在那里。

In a flash, we were surrounded by these two Korean soldiers. They were not much bigger than us, but they were determined to take us to their army base. I begged and yelled for any kind of help, hoping that someone would show up from China. Here I was, being stubborn towards a trained soldier with a gun. I looked at his eyes. He was just a boy. At that moment, he raised his rifle to hit me, but I saw that he was hesitating. His eyes were shaking, and his rifle was still up in the air. So I shouted at him, "OK, OK, I'll walk with you." And I got up.

片刻，我们就被这两名韩国士兵包围了。他们并不比我们大，但他们决定把我们带到他们的军事基地。我乞求并大声喊叫，寻求任何可能的帮助，希望有人能从中国那边过来。我坐在那里，固执的面对着一名训练有素的持枪军人。我看着他的眼睛，他还只是个小男孩。当时，他举起了他的步枪作势要打我，但我看到他在犹豫。他的眼睛在颤抖，他的步枪僵在半空中。于是我只能站起来对他喊道:“好吧，好吧，我和你一起走”。

When we arrived at their army base, my head was spinning with these worst-case scenarios, and my colleague's statement wasn't helping. She said, "We are the enemy." She was right: we were the enemy. And I was supposed to be frightened, too. But I kept having these odd experiences. This time, an officer brought me his coat to keep me warm, because I lost my coat on the frozen river while battling with one of these soldiers.

当我们到达他们的军事基地时，我的脑子里想着最坏的情况，我的同事的讲述没有任何帮助。她说:“我们是敌人。”她说得对:我们是敌人。我当时应该是被吓坏了。但我一直记得一些奇怪的经历。当时，一名军官给我拿来了他的外套，让我暖和起来，因为我在冻结的河面上与一名士兵对峙时丢了外套。

I will tell you what I mean by these odd experiences. I grew up in South Korea. To us, North Korea was always the enemy, even before I was born. South and North have been under armistice for 63 years,since the end of the Korean War. And growing up in the South in the '80s and '90s, we were taught propaganda about North Korea. And we heard so many graphic stories, such as, a little young boy being brutally killed by North Korean spies just because he said, "I don't like communists." Or, I watched this cartoon series about a young South Korean boy defeating these fat, big, red pig, which represented the North Koreans' first leader at the time. And the effect of hearing these horrible stories over and over instilled one word in a young mind: "enemy." And I think at some point, I dehumanized them, and the people of North Korea became equated with the North Korean government.

我会告诉你们这些奇怪的经历是什么意思。我是在韩国长大的，对于我们来说，在我出生之前，朝鲜就一直是敌人了。自朝鲜战争结束以来，南北韩已经休战63年。在韩国，80年代和90年代间长大的我们，被灌输了关于朝鲜的各种宣传。我们听到了很多生动的故事，比如一个小男孩被朝鲜间谍残忍杀害，就因为他说:“我不喜欢共产主义者”；我看过一部动画片，讲述了一个年轻的韩国男孩打败了一头肥胖、巨大、红色的猪，这被用来代表朝鲜的第一任领导人。这些可怕的故事不断洗脑，在年轻一代的脑海里灌输了“敌人”这个词。“我认为在某种程度上，我忽略了朝鲜人的人性，而把朝鲜人民等同于了朝鲜政府。”

Now, back to my detention. It was the second day of being in a cell. I had not slept since I was out at the border. This young guard came to my cell and offered me this small boiled egg and said, "This will give you strength to keep going." Do you know what it is like, receiving a small kindness in the enemy's hand? Whenever they were kind to me, I thought the worst case was waiting for me after the kindness. One officer noticed my nervousness. He said, "Did you think we were all these red pigs?"referring to the cartoon that I just showed you. Every day was like a psychological battle. The interrogator had me sit at a table six days a week and had me writing down about my journey, my work, over and over until I wrote down the confession that they wanted to hear.

现在，回到我被拘留这个话题上。那是在牢房里的第二天，自从我被抓过来，我就没有睡过。一个年轻的看守来到我的牢房，给了我一个煮熟的鸡蛋，然后说:“这将给你坚持下去的力量。” 在敌人的手中得到一份小小的善意，你知道那是什么感受吗？每当他们对我友善的时候，我就觉得在仁慈之后会有最糟糕的事情等待着我。一个守卫注意到了我的紧张，他宽慰说，“你以为我们都是红猪吗?”指的是我刚才给你们看的那幅漫画。每一天都像一场心理上的战斗。每周有六天，审讯者让我坐在桌子前写下我的旅程，我的工作，一遍又一遍，直到我写下他们想要听到的坦白。

After about three months of detention, the North Korean court sentenced me to 12 years in a labor camp. So I was just sitting in my room to be transferred. At that time, I really had nothing else to do, so I paid attention to these two female guards and listened to what they were talking about. Guard A was older, and she studied English. She seemed like she came from an affluent family. She often showed up with these colorful dresses, and then loved to show off. And Guard B was the younger one, and she was a really good singer. She loved to sing Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On" -- sometimes too much. She knew just how to torture me without knowing.
(Laughter)

在被关押了大约三个月后，朝鲜法院判处我12年劳改。然后我只能呆在我的囚室里等待被转移到其他地方。那时候，我真的没有别的事可做，所以我仔细观察那里的两位女看守，听她们在说些什么。守卫A年纪较大，她学过英语，似乎是来自一个富裕的家庭。她经常穿着五颜六色的衣服，喜欢炫耀。而守卫B则更年轻些，她歌唱得不错，她最喜欢唱席琳·迪翁的“我心永恒”——有时候唱得太多了。她知道该怎么折磨我。
(笑声)

And this girl spent a lot of time in the morning to put on makeup, like you can see in any young girl's life. And they loved to watch this Chinese drama, a better quality production. I remember Guard B said, "I can no longer watch our TV shows after watching this." She got scolded for degrading her own country's produced TV shows. Guard B had more of a free mind than Guard A, and she often got scolded by Guard A whenever she expressed herself.

这个女孩在早上花很多时间化妆，就像你可以在任何年轻女孩的身上中看到的一样。她们喜欢看中国电视，一些质量更好的作品。我记得守卫B说:“看完之后，我再也不想看我们的电视节目了。”她因贬低自己国家制作的电视节目而受到责骂。守卫B的思想比守卫A更开放，每当她表达自己的想法时候，总是受到守卫A的批评。

One day, they invited all these female colleagues -- I don't know where they came from -- to where I was held, and they invited me to their guard room and asked if one-night stands really happen in the US.
(Laughter)

有一天，她们邀请了所有的女同事——我不知道她们是从哪里来的——到我被关押的地方，她们邀请我去她们的守卫室，问我在美国是否真的有一夜情什么的。
(笑声)

This is the country where young couples are not even allowed to hold hands in public. I had no idea where they had gotten this information, but they were shy and giggly even before I said anything. I think we all forgot that I was their prisoner, and it was like going back to my high school classroom again. And I learned that these girls also grew up watching a similar cartoon, but just propaganda towards South Korea and the US. I started to understand where these people's anger was coming from. If these girls grew up learning that we are enemies, it was just natural that they would hate usjust as I feared them. But at that moment, we were all just girls who shared the same interests,beyond our ideologies that separated us.

在这个国家，年轻夫妇甚至不允许在公共场合牵手。我不知道她们在哪里得到了这些信息，但她们都很害羞，我还没和她们细说她们自己就咯咯地笑了起来。我想我们都忘记了我是她们的囚犯，那感觉就像回到了我的高中教室一样。我意识到，这些女孩也是看着我小时候看的类似的动画片长大的，只不过是对韩国和美国的宣传而已。我开始理解这些人的愤怒是从哪里来的。如果这些女孩长大后知道了我们是敌人，她们就会像我害怕他们的那样憎恨我们，这是很自然的。但在那一刻，我们都是女孩，她们有着共同的兴趣，超越了我们的意识形态。

I shared these stories with my boss at Current TV at the time after I came home. His first reaction was, "Euna, have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome?" Yes, and I clearly remember the feeling of fearand being threatened, and tension rising up between me and the interrogator when we talked about politics. There definitely was a wall that we couldn't climb over. But we were able to see each other as human beings when we talked about family, everyday life, the importance of the future for our children.

在我回家后，我在潮流电视台与我的老板分享了这些故事。他的第一反应是，“丽娜，你听说过斯德哥尔摩综合症吗?”是的，我清楚地记得恐惧和受到威胁的感觉，当我们谈论政治时，我和审讯者之间的紧张关系不断上升。在这方面，我们之间有一条难以逾越的鸿沟。但是当我们谈到家庭、日常生活、我们孩子的未来时，我们能够将彼此视为人类。

It was about a month before I came home. I got really sick. Guard B stopped by my room to say goodbye, because she was leaving the detention center. She made sure that no one watched us, no one heard us, and quietly said, "I hope you get better and go back to your family soon." It is these people -- the officer who brought me his coat, the guard who offered me a boiled egg, these female guards who asked me about dating life in the US -- they are the ones that I remember of North Korea:humans just like us. North Koreans and I were not ambassadors of our countries, but I believe that we were representing the human race.

这之后我又被关了一个月。我生病了。守卫B在我的囚室前停下来，跟我说再见，因为她要离开拘留中心了。她确保没有人看着我们，没有人听到我们的声音，然后悄悄地说:“我希望你能早日康复，回到你的家庭。”正是这些人——给我带来外套的军官，为我提供煮鸡蛋的守卫，问我在美国的约会生活的女守卫——他们让我懂得朝鲜人也和我们一样是人类。朝鲜人和我不是我们国家的大使，但我相信我们同为人类。

Now I'm back home and back to my life. The memory of these people has blurred as time has passed.And I'm in this place where I read and hear about North Korea provoking the US. I realized how easy it is to see them as an enemy again. But I have to keep reminding myself that when I was over there, I was able to see humanity over hatred in my enemy's eyes.
Thank you.

现在我回到了家，回到了我的生活。随着时间的流逝，关于这些人的记忆模糊了许多。我最近读到许多有关朝鲜挑衅美国的消息。我意识到，再次把他们视为敌人是多么简单。但我必须不断提醒自己，当我在那里的时候，我能够看到这些敌人眼中超出憎恨的人性光芒。
谢谢大家！

【评论】
Tom Brückner
Thanks a lot for sharing this!

非常感谢你能给我们分享这个！

Seong-Jae Paek
I think that it is very very impressive.

这可真是令人印象深刻啊。

Nanyin Zheng
Ms.Lee represented what she felt neutrally in North Korea beyond govenment-made ideological difference. I guess I can understand this feeling during my stay in Europe as a Chinese exchange student. I am from socilism country but almost all my good friends are from Europe, luckily all of us are not extremists or crazy about politics. We talk just like normal friends talk, share stories just like any friends do. We treat each other as an independent human rather than a person from a specific country. 
Yeah sure one time I had a dabate with a friend about Tibet sovereignty issue, though with nothing personal I can still strongly feel how western media are against China and even about our human rights. I am quite clear that China is always accused of its human right issue at international platform, I don't want to dabate or have a fight with anyone in reality and even online, I just get one question to the people who feel superior when talking about Chinese human rights, Have you ever been to China and lived in China? Do you really know how Chinese people feel about their lives and their government? if the answer is no, then you actually don't have the reasonable argument to talk about Chinese human rights. Okeeee, this is a little bit far but what I want to express are two main points: 
1.When we try to make a friend, focus on his/her personality, don't judge any person out of our stereotype on his/her country or race or ridiculuos propaganda. 
2.When we talk about political issue, if we want to be rational, don't choose a side before we truly understand what is going on in these countries. We could support Capitalism or Socialism or whatever we want, but don't judge other ideology until we truly know it.

李女士客观的表达了她在朝鲜的感受，超出了政府塑造的意识形态之外。我想，作为一名中国留学生，在欧洲逗留期间，我能体会这种感觉。我来自社会主义国家，但我几乎所有的好朋友都来自欧洲，幸运的是，我们所有人都不是极端分子或热衷于政治的人。我们就像普通的朋友一样聊天，和朋友一样分享故事。我们把对方看作是一个独立的人，而不是一个来自某个国家的人。
当然，有次我还是和一个朋友就西藏主权问题进行了一次大范围的讨论，我能强烈感受到西方媒体对中国的反对，甚至是对我们人权的侵犯。我很清楚,国际上总是指责中国的人权问题,我不想在线上或者现实中与任何人争论这个或者打一架,我只是有一个问题：那些在谈到中国人权时感到优越的人,你去过中国,在中国居住过吗?你真的知道中国人对自己的生活和政府的感受吗?如果答案是否定的，那么你就没有理由去讨论中国的人权问题了。好吧，这有点离题了，但我想表达的是两个观点:
1。当我们想要交朋友时，关注他/她的个性，不要因他/她的国家或种族或那些荒谬的宣传而有成见。
2。当我们谈论政治问题时，如果我们想要理性，不要在我们真正了解这些国家发生的事情之前选择立场。我们可以支持资本主义或社会主义或任何我们想要的东西，但除非我们真正了解它，否则不要评判其他的意识形态。

Diarmid Freemantle
This talk expresses exactly the problem that leads us to international conflict. We hear the rhetoric and propaganda, and slowly the other side of the current conflict is changed in our minds from humans into The Enemy. Thinking about what we have in common, rather than what about us is different is what makes it possible for all seven billion of us to actually live together (mostly) without killing each other.

这一演讲准确地表达了导致我们走向国际冲突的原因。我们听到的是修饰过的宣传，慢慢地，与我们有冲突的其他文化在我们脑海里从人类变成了敌人。想想我们有什么共同之处，而不是我们有什么不同之处，这才能让我们所有的70亿人和平共处而不是互相残杀。

Matt Henry
If only the xenophobic dotard in the US understood this.

如果美国那些排外的蠢货能理解这一点就好了。

【译注1】这是最近一个韩裔美国人的演讲，她在拍摄一部脱北者纪录片时被抓了，一同被抓的凌志美是一名华裔。
【译注2】黑人的命也是命，朝鲜的人也是人。/滑稽
【译注3】不知道翻啥，大家有什么建议在评论@我或私我。