沙特王储对神职人员宣战 [美国媒体]

Saudi Arabia's crown prince just declared war on the clerics
.
沙特王储对神职人员宣战



On Tuesday, Saudi Arabia's crown prince declared war on the clerical elite who have long shaped Saudi society.

周二，沙特阿拉伯王储对长期影响沙特社会的神职精英宣战。

The man who will be Saudi Arabia's next king, Mohammed bin Salman, did so by delivering an unequivocal message, "We are returning to what we were before, a country of moderate Islam that is open to all religions and to the world." The crown prince continued, "We will not waste 30 years of our lives wasting time dealing with extremist ideas. We will destroy them today," he said.

将成为沙特下一任国王穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼，传递出一个明确信息，“我们正重回曾经那个国家——一个温和的伊斯兰国家，向所有的宗教和全世界开放。”王储继续说道，“我们不会浪费30年的时间去应付极端主义思想，我们今天就要消灭它们。”

Yet, it isn't just what bin Salman said that matters, but also where and to who he said it.

然而，重要的不仅仅是萨勒曼说了什么，还有他在哪儿说的、说给谁听的。

After all, he said it to an unveiled Fox Business host, Maria Bartiromo, at an event designed to attract foreign entrepreneurial investment. Both those considerations — the unveiled American reporter sharing a royal stage on Saudi soil and the endorsement of capitalist dynamism — are incompatible with the worldview of the Saudi Ulama, or clerical elite.

毕竟，这是他在一个旨在吸引外国企业家投资的活动中，说给《福克斯商业新闻》主持人听的。注意这两点——美国记者登上皇家舞台、支持资本推动力——它们沙特的世界观，或者说神职精英的世界观是不相容的。

By his actions, Mohammed bin Salman isn't just throwing down the gauntlet to the Ulama; he's goading them.

通过他的行动，穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼不仅向阿訇们发起了挑战，他也在刺激他们。

Still, while this is just the latest step in bin Salman's ongoing effort to advance women's rights and economic diversification, his Tuesday appearance was staggering for another reason. Because bin Salman pledged that Saudi Arabia will now build a new mega-city named Neom, stretching onto Egyptian and Jordanian soil. According to bin Salman, Neom "will be backed by more than $500 billion over the coming years by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia ... as well as international investors."

虽然这只是本萨勒曼推动妇女权利和经济多元化的最新举措，但他周二的露面还有一点令人震惊——本·萨勒曼承诺，沙特阿拉伯现在将建造一个名为Neom (暂且音译为尼奥穆，Neo-前缀是“新式”意思，m可能代表muslim，因此可能表达的意思是“新穆斯林”)的巨型城市，将延伸到埃及和约旦国土上。根据萨勒曼的说法，Neom“在未来几年将得到沙特及国际投资者超过5000亿美元的支持。”

We're also told that Neom will adopt "an idyllic lifestyle paired with excellent economic opportunities that surpass that of any other metropolis."
In my opinion, however, this vision for the future is antithetical to that of the Ulama. They believe that Saudi Arabia's future depends on its continued adherence to Wahhabi traditionalism and dominant religious authority over society. Moreover, the clerics have long believed that their position was assured as long as they continued to support the unilateral right of the House of Saud to rule the desert kingdom.

我们还被告知，Neom将拥有“一种田园诗般的生活方式，以及比其它任何大都市都好的经济机会”。
然而，以我来看，这种对未来的构想和阿訇心中的构想是相对立的。他们认为，沙特的未来依赖于它继续坚持瓦哈比传统主义，以及宗教权威支配社会。此外，神职人员长期以来一直相信，只要他们继续支持沙特王室独一无二的统治权，他们的地位就会得到保证。

Mohammed bin Salman just detonated that understanding.

穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼刚刚打破了这一想法。

But now, the hard work begins.

但现在，困难才刚刚开始。

Facing inevitable pushback from the clerics, bin Salman will have to prepare for civil instability and a possible rising tide of terrorism. Still, aside from countering those actually involved in violent conspiracies, bin Salman shouldn't overreact to his public critics. Instead, the crown prince should focus on displacing the Ulama's power by empowering young Saudis (well more than 50 percent of the Saudi population is under 30 years old) in the knowledge that his plans will improve their lives.

面对来自神职人员必然的阻力，本·萨勒曼将不得不为国内的不稳定和潜在的恐怖主义浪潮做好准备。尽管如此，除了打击那些真正涉及暴力阴谋的人，萨勒曼不应该对公众的批评反应过度。相反，王储应该着重通过赋予沙特年轻人权力的方式来取代阿訇的势力(沙特30岁以下人口超过50%)——因为年轻人知道他的计划将改善他们的生活。

Regardless, this is good news for the United States. Unless Saudi Arabia's leaders pursue bold reforms, declining oil prices and a young population will mean a cauldron of terrorism.

无论如何，对美国来说这是个好消息。因为除非沙特领导人推行大胆的改革，油价下跌和年轻人口相当于恐怖主义的温床。



[–]travyhaagyCO 5602分 8小时前 
I hope this guy has extremely solid security around him at all times.

我希望这家伙拥有24小时的严密安保。

[–]kingopoutine 797分 8小时前 
I have a strong feeling there are gonna be quite a few assassination attempts

我有种强烈的预感，会有相当多的刺杀企图。

[–]nestorm1 381分 7小时前 
attempts
I think a radical muslim extemist would pretty much just go ahead and use a suicide vest. Idk how they get their hands on so many

我觉得伊斯兰极端分子不会搞那么复杂，一个自杀式炸弹背心就够了。我不知道他们怎么弄到那么多炸弹的。

[–]Otherwiseclueless 214分 7小时前 
Countries like Saudi, Iran, and Qatar pay for them.

像沙特、伊朗、卡塔尔这样的国家给他们买的。

[–]OG_SMOrc 146分 7小时前 
You forgot the USA.

你忘了美国了。

[–]Mike_S_ 117分 7小时前 
The Prince is just going take ISIS off the Gov payroll

这个王子打算把ISIS从政府预算里删掉。

[–]The_Bucket_Of_Truth 154分 7小时前 
Yeah seems like a weird thing to say in advance rather than just having power and making it happen at the time.

还没大权在握就这么高调，不太合适吧？

[–]xorbe 106分 7小时前 
Yup, he messed up by declaring his goals publicly. Not gonna hold my breath for this one.

没错，他公开目标会搞砸一切的，我对此不抱希望。

[–]wildadult 359分 7小时前 
It's widely accepted that he's the one behind his father's move to allow women to drive cars in SA. He is extremely moderate compared to what you consider typical in SA. There is an extremely high probability that he follows through with his words. His power is so great that he got the former successor to the throne to abdicate. I really hate when people mouth off about foreign politicians without knowing a thing about them. If you're in college, go take a course on the modern middle east. If you're out of college, go do some scholarly reading in either history or political science.

普遍认为，他是他父亲发起的允许女性开车运动的背后支持者之一，相比典型的沙特人，他是非常温和主义的。他贯彻计划的可能性相当的高。他的权势是如此之大，甚至把前任继承人都搞下来了。我真的很讨厌人们在对外国政治家一无所知的情况下在那儿BB。如果你在上大学，那就去上一门现代中东学的课，要么就读点相关学术读物。

[–]HappyGoUnlucky 287分 7小时前 
Radical Saudis are crazy but not assassination crazy
The extremists are bunch of cowards
Source: am saudi and live in the heart of radical thinking islamisis (think the Texas of Saudi Arabia). No one around seems to be too bothered by this

沙特极端分子是疯狂，但并不疯狂于刺杀。
极端分子是一群懦夫。
我就是沙特人，而且生活在伊斯兰极端思想的中心地带(你可以理解为沙特的德州)。我周围的人好像没人对刺杀感兴趣。

(德州是美国保守主义思想最浓厚的地区，民风彪悍)

[–]Hippaforalkus4strat 146分 7小时前 
I’m thinking dudes in robes and stetsons and it is glorious.

我在想象一个家伙身穿穆斯林白袍、头戴牛仔帽……亮瞎我的眼。

[–]NiceWorkMcGarnigle 12.6k分 10小时前 
I hope he makes good on his promise.

我希望他实现诺言。

[–]Gunzby 3941分 8小时前 
Nice knowing you Prince of Reason

很高兴得知他是一个理性的王子。

[–]Aumuss 3115分 7小时前 
In totally unrelated news next week "prince dies in tragic accident".

下周会有一条与此事完全不相干的新闻——“王子死于不幸的事故”

[–]tmhoc 979分 7小时前 
Next up, renewable energy! Wind power and how it can moderate your Islam

接下来我们要讲的是，可再生能源——风能以及它将如何使得伊斯兰温和化

[–]apophis-pegasus 118分 7小时前 
Would Wahhabists be able to get away with that though?

他说要消灭极端主义，那瓦哈比派能躲过一劫吗？

[–]ArmaniDiamonds 207分 7小时前* 
Yeah they would. The government is scared of their people. A lot of the elites are western born so they tend to lean more progressive. Their followers... Not so much.

他们会的，政府害怕瓦哈比派，许多精英都出生在西方，因此他们偏向于进步的、开放的。不过下面的人……可就没那么进步了。

[–]Canyon2river 149分 7小时前 
The royal family funds the wahabbi mosques as a form of tribal appeasement. Who in turn are taught to hate excess in wealth and pretty much anything Saudi royal family Like digging your own grave.

皇室资助瓦哈比派的清真寺，以作为一种部落绥靖政策。

[–]patb2015 30分 6小时前 
much like the Reaganites funding the Salafist Muslims to fight the Russians in Afghanistan?

就像里根政府资助阿富汗的萨拉菲派穆斯林以对抗俄国人？

[–]Troppin 13分 3小时前 
Don't worry, the Russians are funding the Taliban now to fight NATO.

别担心，俄国人现在正资助塔利班以对抗北约。

[–]BiZzles14 136分 7小时前 
If you want to see Saudi Princes mysteriously dying, look at post 9/11 investigations. You had 3 die in one week, one in a car accident that never actually happened and another of "thirst". They were men accused by the US of being supporters of AQ, not pushing against religious values.

如果你想了解沙特王子的神秘死亡的话，那就看看911之后的调查吧。一周之内死了3个，一个死于不存在的车祸，一个被“渴死”，他们被美国指控为基地组织的支持者。

[–]Korashy 135分 6小时前 
To be fair there also over ten thousand Saudi princes. It's not like that there is just 7 and 3 mysteriously died.

不过讲道理，有超过1万名沙特王子，离奇死亡的不会就那么几个人。

[–]BiZzles14 69分 6小时前 
True, but a nephew of the King is different then a poor bloke whose 9000th from the throne.

没错，但是国王的侄子重要性非同一般啊。可不是什么野种能比的。

[–]wwaxwork 65分 6小时前 
Princes are their main export after oil.

除了石油，王子是他们最主要的出口品。

[–]Wonderbeastt 93分 7小时前 
Prince dies in drone helicopter taxi crash.

王子死于无人出租直升机坠落。

[–]Aoae 112分 7小时前 
Prince found dead after falling off of bed and suffering seven traumatic head wounds during the fall

王子被发现死于从床上掉下来，在掉落过程中头上受了7处伤。

[–]SpiritofTwinings 77分 7小时前 
Run over by a woman driver.

被一个女司机碾死了。

[–]9e7b96475 967分 7小时前 
He was the one who who pushed for allowing women to drive. Bloomberg recently wrote a profile about him, and there is also an interview from last year. It seems like he has a fairly Western perspective on things, and I am willing to believe that he is serious about changing the country.

他是推动女性开车权的一员，彭博社最近介绍过他，去年还有一篇采访。似乎他的观点是相当西方化的。我愿意相信他想改变国家是严肃认真的。

[–]DuntadaMan 517分 7小时前 
I honestly have to wonder how this guy is still alive.

说实话我很好奇他为啥能活到现在。

[–]HuckFinn69 511分 7小时前 
Because he is one of the richest and most powerful men in the world. His level of wealth affords a very high level of protection and isolation.

因为他是这个世界上最有钱、最有权的男人之一，他的财富可以支付得起高水平的保护和隔离。

[–]PlasticTurd 346分 6小时前 
which makes his progressive mindset all the more impressive. he could just as easily have continued to exploit.

这就让他的进步心态更显得难能可贵了，因为他本可以像前任一样继续剥削的。

[–]LateralEntry 48分 5小时前 
He is not a good guy. But hopefully he achieves some good

他算不上好人，但希望他能办点好事儿。

[–]HaplessMagician 189分 5小时前 
People who make radical changes will always have a complicated story. For example, Washington was a slave owning traitor that went to war with his own countrymen and got tons of people who lived in North America killed in the process. But counting a country and taking a huge step towards liberating people from what they felt were unreasonable leadership painted him as a hero.
The prince might not be a great guy and may do a lot of bad things. But if he can make major social changes that advance a country that has been stuck in the past, it will likely overshadow the negatives.

带来翻天覆地的变化的人物永远是复杂的。举例来说，华盛顿是一个奴隶主、叛徒，与同胞开战，造成了大量的美国北方人死亡。然而凭着解放人民、开创一个国家，他又可以被描绘为一个英雄。
这个王子也许不是一个伟大的人，可能做了许多坏事。但假如他能够推动重大的社会变革，将沙特从过去的泥沼中拉出来，那么相比之下负面就可以忽略不计了。

[–]MuddyFilter 38分 3小时前 
This is very important and something i think alot of people miss. Some of the greatest good in history was accomplished by morally ambiguous or even bad people. I think LBJ is a good example of this.
And yes, the founding fathers are a great example as well. Men who set the foundations for the most liberal nation in the world at the time, yet had this glaring moral blind spot that was slavery.

这是非常重要、也是我觉得许多人都忽略了的一点。历史上许多最伟大的人在道德上都是有争议的，甚至是坏人。

[–]shrlytmpl 56分 6小时前 
Could very well be that he's finding new ways to exploit. Perhaps he saw they had a PR problem and it was no longer more profitable to continue in the direction they were going. Not saying that it's impossible to just want to do the right thing, but at that level the only language that people listen to is money.

但也很有可能他只是找到了剥削的新方式。也许他只是看到了他们面临的公共关系问题，认为当前的前进方向已经无利可图了。
我不是说理想主义不存在，但是身处那个级别的人，只会听钱的话。

[–]apartment1400 44分 6小时前 
Or, just maybe, he realized that he's rich as fuck and incredibly powerful so he decided he could a little something to make the world a better place?

或者，也许，他发现自己太他妈的有钱有权了，所以他决定为一个更美好的世界稍微做点贡献？

[–]BobXCIV 96分 7小时前 
Just curious, why exactly are his views considered Western, instead of progressive?
Not trying to argue, but just curious about the difference.

仅仅出于好奇，为什么他的观点被认为是“西式的”，而不是“进步的”？
我不想争论，只是好奇这两者间的区别。

[–]Mart-n 39分 8小时前 
Progressive to us means making progress towards western ideals. To say his ideals are progressive implies that his ideals are western anyway.

对我们来说，“进步的”意味着像西方理念靠拢，所以说他的理念是进步的，也就暗示了他的理念是西式的。

[–]SpikeReynolds 68分 7小时前 
Because Reddit is mostly a western/american website, so people already tend to view the western ideals as the most progressive. By this I mean, most Europeans and Americans would view Western Ideals and Progressive ideals as interchangeable terms or equal terms.
Even though some western ideals aren't really the most progressive ones, in my personal opinion.

因为Reddit基本上是一个西方/美国网站，所以人们将西方理念默认为最进步的，所以在绝大部分欧洲人和美国人心中，“西方思想”和“进步思想”是等价的。

[–]PurestVideos 75分 6小时前 
I think alot of Europeans see Americans as a bit more backward than them

我觉得许多欧洲人认为美国思想比他们落后。

[–]SolarTsunami 33分 5小时前 
Barbaric American here to remind you that the word "alot" is actually two separate, totally different words!

来自美国的野蛮人提醒您一下，“alot(许多)”实际上是分开的，两个词！
(讽刺楼上拼写错误)

[–]zorak1 [得分隐藏] 2小时前 
Back to your cave, you!

回到你的洞穴里去！

[–]gaslightjoe 143分 7小时前 
We’re going to return to being moderates, right after we finish this genocide in Yemen

是啊，我们打算重回温和主义——等我们完成也门大灭绝之后。

[–]april9th 56分 6小时前 
Saudis have been hand-in-glove with Wahhabis for centuries. Saudis were, in the 1700s, raiding Ottoman Mecca and smashing millennium old shrines.
Saud family are the political arm and Al ash-Sheikh are the spiritual. They legitimise one another. There is not one without the other. There is no 'return'. Absolute BS statement which revolves around wanting to turn Saudi islands into tourist areas and knowing westerners only go to SA for the wages and not the good times.

沙特已经和瓦哈比派亲热了几个世纪了，18世纪，沙特突袭了麦加，毁灭了上千年的古老圣殿。
不存在所谓的“重回”，全都是屁话。他们想把沙特半岛塑造成一个旅游地，因为现在西方人都是冲着薪水去沙特的，没人去那儿旅游。

[–]barbadillo 122分 8小时前 
I doubt it, those sheiks turn faster than women driving in their country.

我很怀疑，这些酋长变脸比他们国家女人开车都快。

[–]an32786 106分 8小时前 
Or they could just as easily replace him as they did with the last heir a few months ago

或者他们可以轻易取代他，就像几个月前那样(指几个月前沙特前任王储被废黜)

[–]TooShiftyForYou 7419分 9小时前 
He made these comments on stage to an unveiled female American reporter too. Hope they hold him to his comments and he can back it up.

他的这些言论还是对一个美国女记者说的，希望他能够得到支持。

[–]DudeWithLube[S] 4295分 9小时前 
Yeah he's also planning to build a giant city for 500 billion dollars that's 100% clean energy

是啊，他还打算花5000亿建造一个100%清洁能源的巨型城市呢。

[–]elxchapo69 2375分 8小时前 
I wonder if they'll use slave labor like dubai

我好奇他们是否会像迪拜一样使用奴隶劳工。

[–]magnora7 76分 7小时前 
100% clean slave labor. They get fed in sunlight, and paid in wind

100%清洁的奴隶劳工。他们的食物是阳光，薪水是大风。

[–]predictingzepast 1294分 9小时前 
Oh good, I'm sure that's exactly what the radical clerics are afraid of, a holy war..

哦太棒了，我确信这正是激进派神职人员害怕的——一场圣战(讽刺)。

[–]OneADayFlintstones 434分 7小时前 
Unification of the moderates is exactly what we need because we will continue outnumber the radicals which they fear but do not want us to realize. They want to break us apart, distract us from the real problem that is radicalization.

这正是我们需要的——联合起来所有温和派，这样我们就会逐渐在人数上压制激进派，他们害怕这一点，他们试图离间我们，将我们的注意力从激进主义这个真正的问题上转移开。

[–]lancewilliams 302分 6小时前 
Radicalization isn't just happening in Muslim countries, it is a prevailing issue happening with young men all around the world.
No one who was radicalized had a large group of friends, family, and so on, there is a giant trend that was even spoken about by the Surgeon General in a statement a few years ago, that the biggest rising public mental health crisis is not necessarily depression, but social isolation.
What we have been seeing, consistently, from suicide bombers, mass shooters and terrorists, is people who are social isolated and WELL off. This is especially true for suicide bombers and mass shooters; They come from the middle class, well off, but have barely any friends, and barely any family outside of their wives.
Men need to raise awareness of this, and have more interpersonal relationships.

激进化不仅仅发生在穆斯林国家，这是全世界各个国家年轻群体中的普遍问题。
激进分子大多没有许多朋友、家人等等，几年前，卫生局长曾谈过这一趋势，那即是我们面临的最大的公众心理健康危机并不一定是抑郁，而是社会孤立。
我们不断看到，自杀炸弹、大规模射击、恐怖分子都是被社会孤立的，而且“生活富足”。尤其是自杀式炸弹袭击者和大规模射击杀手——他们来自中产阶级，生活富足，但几乎没有任何朋友，除了妻子几乎没有任何家人。
人们应该增强这方面的意识，拥有更多的人际关系。

[–]Reutermo 215分 8小时前 
I am not an expert on Saudi history, when was they a country of moderate Islam? Havn't Wahhabism been the norm there for more than a century atleast.

我不是沙特历史专家，但这个国家什么时候是温和伊斯兰主义？几个世纪来瓦哈比主义不才是常态吗？

[–]OphioukhosUnbound 565分 8小时前* 
(Edit: I moved the focus from Saudi Arabia in question to Middle East in general. Lunch level skim read focus, sorry. So my response, while I think independently interesting, is perhaps a bit off topic.)
The Radical Islamization of the Middle East in general is fairly recent.
Arab culture (especially in cities and politics) was very secular 50-60 years ago. A lot of the cultural-religious aesthetics we now associate with the Middle East (e.g. hijab, thick beards) were rare.
What changed is complicated and I don’t pretend to fully understand. Part of it was funding and arming of extremist groups to combat communism. Part of it was religion and extremism joining forces with (and then later destroying) intellectual society to overthrow corrupt regimes (e.g. Persia—>Iran pre vs post ‘79 revolution Iran). Part of it was religion becoming a group identifier and source of pride when secular pan-Arab and nationalist impulses dwindled (again, probably largely due to the pressures of being Cold War pawns and sometimes battlegrounds).
But not long ago (e.g. 50s) a lot of middle eastern areas were considered incredibly progressive and up and coming members of global society.
Makes the current state all that much more tragic.
Here’s an article discussing some stuff: (Didn’t easily find a more concise or formal source in an off-hand search.

中东的伊斯兰激进化普遍来说是相当近期的事情。
50~60年前，阿拉伯文化(尤其是在城市里和政治圈)是相当世俗的。许多我们今天与中东联系起来的文化—宗教审美观(例如面纱、大胡子)在当时都是十分罕见的。
改变的原因是复杂的，我不想不懂装懂，但是部分原因是为了对抗共产主义而资助、武装极端组织；部分原因是为了推翻腐败的政权，宗教和极端主义与知识分子联合在了一起(后来他们毁灭了知识分子阶级)，例如1979年伊朗伊斯兰革命；部分原因是随着世俗泛阿拉伯主义和国家主义的式微，宗教取代国家变成了一种群体识别符号和自豪感的来源。(同样，这一点可能很大程度上是由于冷战压力)
但不久之前(例如50年代)，中东地区被认为是非常进步的、即将加入全球社会。
这些历史，让王子的发言(重回温和主义)更显得令人悲哀。

[–]MasterEnequator 153分 7小时前 
There are pictures of this mystical land where Islam isn't radical, Iran in the early 50s to be precise, they had a beautiful and unique civilization with great infrastructure before all the destruction. Lebanon in particular lost a lot :(

有许多老照片描绘了极端化之前的伊斯兰世界，50年代的伊朗很有代表性，在被毁灭之前，他们拥有漂亮的、独特的文明，基建良好。黎巴嫩失去的尤其多。

[–]Coal_Morgan 20分 7小时前 
Same with Afghanistan. Seeing women in short skirts and shirts walking down the streets of Kabul 50 years ago is jarring.

阿富汗也一样，看到50年前穿着短裙和衬衫女人走在喀布尔(阿富汗首都)街头的照片非常令人震惊。