在华外国人怎么看中国：住在中国的外国人，你和我有相似的感觉吗？ [美国媒体]

Foreign people living in China, do you have similar feel with me?

在华外国人怎么看中国：住在中国的外国人，你和我有相似的感觉吗？



SOME RANDOM THOUGHT. Hi, I'm a Chinese. I'm a recent graduate from a US college and work full time at LA now. I see many negative comments toward China in this channel and I feel actually a lot of people giving those comments are living in China and know China very well. what I feel weird is I myself actually run into a opposite direction. I feel Chinese political system represents the future and western democracy is showing its deficiency already and political correctness reaches a absurd level. I wish China to improve on rule of law but don't want China to copy this one man one vote style democracy. generally I'm very missing home and think China overall is doing a good job. Then after I saw comments in this channel I started to think is it possible we are all biased at the same time? being away from the environment we grew up with and most familiar with make us subjectively amplify the good part of it and deny the good part of the environment we currently live in. I have a decent job here in the states and life quality is definitely better than that I have if I went back to China, and I have a lot of Chinese friends here and my coworkers are all friendly. but still I would think China has a more bright future and I'm planning to go back several years later. I remember when I first came to USA I have very neutral view about USA but now I just feel more and more negative about it, but at the same time I know American people are more simple to deal with and have very straight personality. I think In China I would feel 江湖水太深. you see it is a complicated mentality. I'm struggled between good part and downside of each environment and often feel restless. Anyway. just wanted to find a place to dump all those. People who lives in China, what do you feel in China?

这只是我的一些随便的想法。你好，我是一个中国人。我最近刚从美国一所大学毕业，现在在洛杉矶找到了一份全职工作。我在这个频道看到了很多对中国的负面评论，我觉得很多人都是在中国生活，对中国很了解。我感到奇怪的是，我自己的情况实际上与你们正好相反。我觉得中国的政治制度代表着未来，西方民主已经显示了它的缺陷，政治正确已经到了荒谬的程度。我希望中国在法治方面有所进步，但不想让中国复制这种一人一票式的民主。总的来说，我非常想念家乡，认为中国总体上做得很好。在看过这个频道的评论后，我开始思考：我们是否可能同时都怀有偏见呢？远离我们成长的环境，最熟悉的环境，会让我们主观地放大它的优点，否定我们目前所处的环境的好的部分。我在美国有一份体面的工作，生活质量肯定比我回到中国要好，我在这里有很多中国朋友，我的同事都很友好。但我仍然认为中国拥有一个更光明的未来，我打算几年之后再回到中国去。我记得当我第一次来到美国的时候，我对美国的看法是非常中立的，然而现在我对美国的看法越来越消极，不过同时我也知道美国人更容易相处，而且在性格上非常直率。我想，在中国我会觉得江湖水太深。你看，这是一种复杂的心态。我在每个环境的优点和缺点之间挣扎，常常感到不安。不管怎么说，我只是想找个地方表达一下我的想法。住在中国的你们，在中国有什么感觉？


[–]flex1986 173 points 6 days ago*
Don’t want to go in to a discussion of one system vs the other. But I think you are making one very big mistake you are taking the US as the standard for democracy.

不要妄想着展开一个系统与另一个系统的讨论。我认为你犯了一个很大的错误，你把美国当成了民主的标杆。

The US is not the standard for democracy, nor is it the standard for health care, quality of life, education, and the list goes on. Do some research and you will find there are a lot of countries that follow some form of a democracy. Many which are different from US and arguably do better at many of the political aspects.

美国不是民主的标杆，也不是医疗保健、生活质量、教育等方面的标杆。如果去做一些研究，你会发现很多国家都遵循某种形式的民主。许多与美国不同的国家可以说在许多政治方面做得更好。

Does that mean that the “best” democracy is perfect? No, cause nothing is perfect. But I am relatively certain that at this point in time it is the best option.

这是否意味着“最好”的民主是完美的？不是的，因为没有什么是完美的。但我可以肯定的是，在这一点上，它是最好的选择。

Edit: what you describe is very common, people will highlight the good part of what they grew up with and highlight the bad part of what they are not used to. The trick is to realize this and learn how to build your opinions with less or none of such biases.

编辑:你所描述的情况是非常普遍的，人们会强调他们成长过程中所经历的美好部分，还会强调他们所不习惯的缺点。关键是要意识到这一点，并学会如何在较少的偏见或无偏见的基础上形成你的观点。

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[–]nincludEuropean unx 97 points 5 days ago*
Yep like western Europe, which is probably the most democratic place on earth and offers the highest quality of life ( but we pay super-high taxes).

是的，就比如西欧地区，它可能是地球上最民主的地方，为人们提供了最高的生活质量(但是我们要付超高的税)。

China is a terrible kleptocracy and all the problems are hidden bEhind the smokescreen of a massive propaganda and censorship.

中国是一个可怕的盗贼统治国家，所有的问题都隐藏在大规模的宣传和审查的烟幕背后。

Chinese people felt so humiliated by westerners in the past that they are ready to believe in their own government lies to feel better.

过去，中国人遭到了西方人的极大羞辱，以至于他们选择相信自己的政府，从而让自己感觉好一点。

The US are not a perfect nation, most Americans know it and doubt about themselves, but it helps to change, for the better.

美国不是一个完美的国家，大多数美国人都知道这一点，对自己也有怀疑，但这有助于改变的发生，它可以让美国变得更好。

"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski

查尔斯·布考斯基说过：“世界的问题在于，聪明人充满了怀疑，而愚蠢的人则充满了信心。”

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[–]Tom_The_Human 8 points 5 days ago
If money's purpose is to give us a higher standard of living, why should the countries with the highest standard of living be chastised for taxing the population too much?

如果钱的目的是为了让我们过上更好的生活，那么为什么那些生活水平最高的国家会因为过度征税而受到责骂呢？

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[–]marmakoide 28 points 5 days ago
    life quality is definitely better than that I have if I went back to China

“生活质量肯定比我回到中国要好”

    I think In China I would feel 江湖水太深. you see it is a complicated mentality.

“在中国我会觉得江湖水太深。你看，这是一种复杂的心态。”

That's why I left China and went back to Europe :/ When we wanted to have a kid, it was one more reason to leave. In France, I pay more taxes, but the healthcare and kid's education is way cheaper and better on average.

这就是我离开中国回到欧洲的原因。当我们想要一个孩子的时候，这更是一个离开的充分理由了。在法国，我要交更多的税，但医疗保障和孩子教育的成本更低，平均水平也更高。

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[–]slickdaddysouth 81 points 5 days ago
People hold China to a way lower standard, there are tons of issues that people are critical about in the US that are so far down the totem pole that they don't even make the news in China...in fact China doesn't even really have the news...

人们把中国的标准降低到一个较低的水准上，在美国，人们的批评是非常之多的，在各个社会等级都是如此，以至于他们甚至不会关心中国的新闻。事实上，中国甚至连新闻都没有。

The fact you went to a US college and work in the US speaks volumes.

你去美国读大学并在美国工作的事实说明了这一点。

It's true though that there are certain advantageous things about living in China for a lot of people, no one denies that but the same could be said for nearly any country.

诚然，对于许多人来说，在中国生活有一些便利的条件，没有人否认这一点，但对于几乎任何一个国家来说，情况都是如此。

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[–]slappymcnutface 4 points 5 days ago
    It's true though that there are certain advantageous things about living in China

“诚然，在中国生活有一些便利的条件”

Just because China still has more economic growth to do (to catch up to a developed standard), doesn't mean the country is "better".

这只是因为中国还有更多的经济增长空间(来赶上发达国家的标准)，但不意味着中国“更好”。

Any sane person would agree China is a better place to make some cash quickly than the US. There are more opportunities for investments than a country like the US where you're looking at best 3% growth annually.

任何有理智的人都会同意，中国是一个能比美国更快地赚到钱的地方。和美国这样的国家相比，中国的投资机会更多，因为美国每年的经济增长率最高也就3%。

But like you say here, for all of the problems of the US we complain about.. like Trump calling the press the "enemy" of the people.. China is already past that.

但就像你说的，我们都在抱怨美国的各种问题。就像特朗普把媒体称为人民的“敌人”一样。中国已经结束了这种状况。

I think the only real legitimate complaint is that the US is potentially in decline.

我认为，唯一真正合理的抱怨是美国有可能陷入衰退。

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[–]baozitou -6 points 5 days ago*
    The fact you went to a US college and work in the US speaks volumes.

“你去美国读大学并在美国工作的事实说明了这一点”

That's because the U.S. has much better high education and academy and potential better paying jobs. Nothing to do with the political system.

这是因为美国有更好的高等教育水平、学校，可以找到潜高薪工作。这与政治制度无关。

Does the fact that English teachers in this sub choose to work China speak volumes?

这个频道中的英语老师选择去中国工作这一事实难道不能说明说明这一点吗？

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[–]slickdaddysouth 3 points 5 days ago*
You said overall China is doing a very good job, yet you jumped through all the hoops to attend University in the west and got a graduate job there. This is a very common occurrence for Chinese...I wonder why?

你认为中国总体上做得很好，但你却克服了各种障碍去了西方的大学，并在毕业之后在那里找到了一份工作。这对中国人来说是很普遍的情况。我想知道为什么？

Most English teachers don't work in China? Most westerners teaching English in China aren't even qualified teachers...which does say a lot about the place yes.

大多数英语老师在中国都不工作吗？在中国教英语的大多数西方人甚至都不是合格的教师。这确实反映了这个地方的很多问题。

Also something like rule of law has a major influence on all aspects of a country, the fact that China struggles in this area isn't something to be taken lightly. Political correctness is getting played up a lot but most Americans couldn't even comprehend the kind of rule of law you see in China...which is infinitely a bigger problem.

此外，法治对一个国家的各个方面都有着重大影响，而中国在这方面的努力并不是非常轻易的。政治正确经常被夸大，但大多数美国人甚至无法理解中国的法治。这绝对是一个更大的问题。

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[–]MOOC0WMOO 24 points 5 days ago
it's the opposite feeling for me. i spent a few years building fintech teams at two different companies in shanghai. to me america's problems are out in the open for everyone in the world to see, and its economy entices anyone in the world to come fix them. in contrast china has a lot of problems that run deep but are constantly being suppressed by a paranoid state and conservative and superstitious culture. the deepest problem is that china has blossomed in a world defined by liberalism, but has no intent of fostering liberalism to keep the growth up. other deep problems are that the chinese have been less fertile than americans for more than 30 years now, do not integrate foreigners quickly or well, have very strange cultural norms from a global perspective, and have housing that is valued way too high. i think people severely undervalue the size of these problems because they are not out in the open everyday, which they should be if china actually wanted to solve them.

我的感觉正好相反。我花了几年时间在上海的两家不同的公司中建立金融科技团队。对我来说，美国的问题是公开的，世界上的每一个人都能看到，而且它的经济优势可以诱使世界上的任何一个人来解决这些问题。相比之下，中国有很多问题，但却一直被这个偏执的国家和保守、迷信的文化所压制。最深层的问题是：中国是在一个由自由主义所定义的世界里蓬勃发展的，但却无意于推动自由主义来维持经济增长。还有一些深层次的问题，比如中国人在从现在开始的30多年时间里将没有美国人那么高的生育率，也不会迅速或较好地融合外国人，从全球角度来看，他们有着非常奇怪的文化范式，而且他们的房屋估值也太高了。我认为人们严重低估了这些问题的规模，因为它们不是每天都会被公开的，如果中国真的想要解决这些问题，他们应该这样做。

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[–]mrgoodkat1707European unx 63 points 5 days ago
No, I don't. I have been here for some 10 odd years, living in a T1 city. While the hardware has improved a lot, the software hasn't. Less and less freedoms, more protectionist (our company imports stuff and that get's more difficult every year), most young people have been getting more and more entitled and lazy. Seems people are eating up the "China Numba 1, we are the future. China is the new center of the world" crap and assume they don't have to work for it anymore. The PC thing you are mentioning is pretty much the same extreme here as it is in the USA, just in a different direction. In the US you can't call someone a nigger without repercussions in China you can't call someone "steamed bun Xi" without repercussions. Po-tay-to Po-tah-to. Overall I guess the thought police is more active here than in the US, never stayed there long enough to comment on it though. Yes, China has a bright future. I am just not sure whether it is a) as bright as most Chinese think, b) brighter than the US' or Europe's future and c) will still include a bright future for us foreigners. I am still making money so I will stay here a while longer.

不，我不喜欢中国。我在这里住了十多年，住在一个一线城市里。虽然这里的硬件设施已经有了很大的改善，但软件方面却没有什么进步。自由越来越少，贸易保护主义越来越强烈(我们的公司每年都要进口一些东西，但是每年都会变得更加困难)，大多数年轻人越来越自以为是和懒惰。似乎人们很吃“中国是世界第一，我们才是未来，中国是世界的新中心”这一套废话，并且认为他们不必再为之奋斗了。你提到的政治正确在这里表现得和在美国一样极端，只是方向不同。在美国，你不能把某人称为“黑鬼”，这在中国没有什么，但是你就不能叫****。总的来说，我认为这里的思想警察要比美国的更活跃，但是我没有在美国呆过太长时间，无法对它进行评价。是的，中国有一个光明的未来。我只是不确定它是不是：a)像大多数中国人认为的那样明亮；b)比美国或欧洲的未来更光明；c)仍然会为我们这些外国人提供一个光明的未来。我还在赚钱，所以我还会在这里多呆一段时间。

Also you should note that most people who are posting negative comments here have been in China for ages, are mostly running businesses and probably speak better Chinese than all the ABCs who are masturbating to China's rise on reddit. It's not that we don't like China, it's that the negative things are kinda in important areas and shouldn't be glossed over for "PC" reasons.

此外，你应该注意到，在这里发表负面评论的大多数人已经在中国待了很长时间了，他们大多是在经营企业，可能要比那些在reddit上意淫中国崛起的香蕉人的中文更好。这并不是说我们不喜欢中国，而是负面的评价是重要的，不应该因为“政治正确”的缘故而被掩盖。

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[–]nincludEuropean unx 42 points 5 days ago*
After 10 years in China I feel so happy to be back in Europe.

在中国待了10年之后，我很高兴能回到欧洲。

In 2007 I was a young dude and was fed up about European taxes and bureaucracy.

2007年，我还是个年轻的小伙子，对欧洲的税收和官僚主义感到厌倦。

In 2017, I'm now a dad and all I care for my family is a stable place, with a proper healthcare and education system.

到了2017年，我已经是一个父亲了，我所关心的是我的家庭身处一个稳定的地方，有不错的医疗和教育体系。

I don't want my kids to adopt chinese values, such as cheating, lack of creativity ,materialism, and superficiality.

我不希望我的孩子们接受中国的价值观，比如欺骗、缺乏创造力、物质主义和肤浅。

People complain about the refugees, but if they came here, it's because we can offer a better future to everyone.

人们抱怨难民问题，但如果他们来到了这里，那也是因为我们可以为每个人提供一个更好的未来。

We're not perfect, but we're sincere, and most importantly, social justice is part of our project of society, no special privileges to anyone.

我们不是完美的，但我们真诚，最重要的是，社会公正是我们社会的一部分，没有任何的特权。

China is corrupt to the core, and it would take decades to solve that problem if they had a proper leadership, which is not the case with the CCP...

中国则腐败到骨子里去了，要解决这个问题需要花上几十年的时间，如果他们有一个合适的领导阶层的话，这就没CCP什么事了。

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[–]ShishiooSweden 1 point 3 days ago
I don’t understand why so many Americans in r/worldnews and r/china is pro China. Makes me fucking rage, people get 80-150k USD entry level salaries in CS in USA, in other fields as well. This entry level salary is waaaaay more than any ESL teacher makes in China. I graduated from a top uni in Sweden with a CS degree and got a 16k rmb salary after taxes in a place where rent is equal to Seattle almost. Hell I would thank god every day if I was born in USA, meanwhile trying to get a h1b visa is impossible almost unless you are indian and gaming the quota system. Until I can move to USA I will continue to inhale pollution and save money, better than paying 70% taxes back home if I’m single at least.

我不明白为什么那么多的美国人在世界新闻频道和中国频道支持中国。让我愤怒的是，在美国，计算机专业人员刚入职的薪水在8万到15万美元左右，在其他领域也差不多。这个刚入职的工资水平比任何非母语英语课程教师在中国的工资都要高得多。我毕业于瑞典的一所顶级大学，获得了计算机科学学位，在一个租金几乎和西雅图差不多的地方，税后工资却只有1万6000人民币。如果我出生在美国，我会每天都感谢上帝的，然而除非你是印度人，并且在配额制度范围内，否则几乎不可能获得h1b签证。在我搬到美国之前，我还要继续呼吸受污染的空气，继续存钱，如果我是单身的话，还可以免去向家里上缴70%的工资。

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[–]KandisKoolAidWeave 9 points 5 days ago
I find it odd that you think political correctness is an issue for "western democracy" when there are substantive issues in China that either cannot be discussed or can only be discussed if you toe the official line on them. That form of political correctness is far more dangerous than not being allowed to wear blackface or whatever it is you think has a corrosive effect on the West's future.

我觉得奇怪的是，当你认为政治正确是“西方民主”所存在的问题的时候，其实中国已经存在着一些实质性的问题了，这些问题要么不能讨论，要么只能在官方层面上加以讨论。这种政治正确的形式远比不允许扮演黑人或任何你认为对西方的未来有腐蚀作用的东西要危险得多。

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[–]deaduntil 40 points 5 days ago
Are you familiar with the concept of revealed preferences? There's a reason you went to school in the U.S. & now work in the U.S.

你是否熟悉“显示性偏好”的概念？这就是你去美国上学以及现在在美国工作的原因。

There's no doubt the zeitgeist favors China at the moment: all Xi has to do to get good press is not be Trump. So ask yourself: what is better, consolidating all power & authority in a single individual, or not? If you really think dictatorship and cheating business partners is the way, you definitely should move back to China.

毫无疑问，目前的时代思潮对中国有利：中国领导人所必须做的就是要利用好媒体，而不是像特朗普那样。所以，问问你自己：把所有的权力和权威集中在一个人身上好，还是反其道行之好？如果你真的认为独裁和欺骗商业伙伴的做法是一种不错的方式，那么你绝对应该回到中国来。

For myself, I see in China a government, leadership, and economy fatally unable to course-correct. Doubling down on oppression, control, and authoritarianism. Doubling down on piling up debt. But maybe this is a new era. Maybe this time will be different.

在我看来，中国的政府、领导阶层和经济都不可避免地无法走上正确的道路。它们会让压迫、控制和独裁主义加倍，会让债务加倍。但也许这就是一个新的时代。也许这次会有所不同。

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[–]ser_drake 28 points 5 days ago
AQI 500+. I'm not so sure people will see this as a good argument to embrace Chinese dictatorship. The incredible ruination of your country in the pursuit of profits for some mega rich has likely damned your future.

我不太确定人们会认为这是一个支持中国独裁统治的好理由。你的国家在追求利润和巨额财富的过程中会被不可思议地毁灭掉的，这很可能会让你的未来变得糟透了。

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[–]piscator111 38 points 6 days ago
    i feel the chinese political system represents the future

“我觉得中国的政治体系代表着未来”

Yeah that's what a lot of people felt about the soviet unx back in the late 60s early 70s.

是的，这也是很多人在60年代末和70年代初对苏联的感觉。

Even xi himself doesnt feel that way that's why he's dead serious about "comprehensive reform", that is, reforming the political system too.

就连中国领导人自己也不这么认为，这也是他对“全面改革”持严肃的态度，这也是改革政治体制的原因。

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[–]bodangren2 17 points 5 days ago
I have one of the top positions in my medium-sized (300 workers) company, yet I am amazed to have a mid-range apartment without a dishwasher, a dryer, or decent fixtures, not to mention the washing machine being outside, the hot water tank hanging in the guest bathroom, the ebikes parked in the lobby, and everything else working 75%. The only reason I'm amazed is that this is China and I see where all the other people live.

我是我那个中等规模的公司(300人)的高层管理人员之一，但是让我惊讶的是，我所居住的中档公寓中没有洗碗机、烘干机或其他体面的设施、更不用说洗衣机放在了外面，热水器挂在客用浴室里、电动自行车要停在大堂里，所有东西都只能发挥75%的效能。我感到惊讶的唯一原因是：这里是中国，我发现其他所有人都是这样生活的。

I'm also afraid to drink the water, concerned about adulterated food, would rather fly to Thailand for medical care (let that one sink in...), don't have any trust in my worker's rights under labor law, and don't have any faith that vehicles on the street will follow traffic laws or even attempt not to run pedestrians over (and I would never think of driving). I also have to be careful about what I say about rich or influential people, even if absolutely true, not because they will make my life difficult, but because I will legally be in the wrong. Ooh, yeah, and I have to break the law on internet access to do things like access foreign bank accounts and will have to launder money I legally earned in order to take it out of the country. Oh, and the racism. To hear Chinese people hit America over racism makes me want to scream.

我也不敢喝这里的水，担心假冒伪劣食品，我宁愿飞到泰国去接受治疗，我对劳动法所保障的工人权利没有任何信心，我也不相信街上的车辆会遵循交通法规，甚至不相信它们会不走人行道(而我也决不想在这里开车)。我也要对自己发表的关于富人或有影响力的人的看法慎之又慎，即使它是绝对正确的，这不是因为他们会让我的生活变得艰难，而是因为我这么做将是违法的。哦，是的，我必须互联网上做一些违反当地法律的事情，比如登录外国银行账户，还必须把我合法赚来的钱洗一遍，这样才能转出这个国家。哦，还有种族主义。听到中国人对美国种族主义的抨击，我简直要尖叫了。

And none of these problems touches on issues like political rights or freedom of speech, which I am not crazy enough to discuss on an open forum. Yeah. Chilling manifested.

这些问题都没有触及到政治权利或言论自由等问题，我还没有疯狂到要在一个开放的论坛上讨论这些问题。是的，这很令人心寒。

So to summarize: China's middle class doesn't have a third of the quality of life the middle class of America does. The poor in China are poorer. The rich in China aren't quite as rich. And any individual in these groups can be disappeared at any time with no official or unofficial investigation allowed.

我在这里总结一下：中国中产阶级的生活质量还没有达到美国中产阶级三分之一的水准。中国的穷人更穷。中国的富人也没有那么富裕。任何人都有可能在任何情况下、在任何时候消失，不会有任何官方或非官方的调查。

There's really no place that China wins in these comparisons except safety from random crime on the streets. Taiwan was equally safe while I was there, though. There are probably several countries in Western Europe that have that stat going for them.

在这些比较中，除了街上的犯罪行为，中国是没有任何地方能胜出的。不过，我在台湾的时候，发现那里也同样安全。西欧可能只有几个国家有这样的统计数据。

I'll get responses from/r/china telling me to go back to the US. I'm here because the work I'm doing is interesting to me. When it stops being interesting, I'll absolutely leave. Because although I'm basically forced to say "China is great. I love being here" to everyone except my closest friends, I really don't love it at all. Unless the OP loves work in the US, I suggest they do the same and return home.

我知道会在中国频道收到回复，告诉我回美国去。我在这里是因为我所做的工作对我来说很有趣。当它不再有趣时，我绝对会离开。因为尽管我得被迫对除最亲密的朋友之外的人说“中国很伟大，我喜欢待在这里”的话，但我真的一点都不喜欢这么做。除非这些中国人喜欢在美国工作，否则我建议他们也和我一样做事，然后回家。

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[–]hollandog 16 points 5 days ago*
looks like the brainwash from all those years worked.


看来这些年的洗脑有所成效。

I'm in similar situation as you but I've been here for 20yrs since my family immigrated. I see both countries have their strong and weak side but china is a freedom shit hole. censorship is one of the thing I can't get over with. I can't imagine living in china now after years of internet freedom.

我和你的处境一样，但自从我的家人移民过来之后，我已经在这里住了20年了。我认为这两个国家都有其强大和弱小的一面，但中国对自由来说是一个很糟糕的地方。审查是我无法忍受的一件事。我无法想象在享受了数年的互联网自由之后，回到中国去生活。

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[–]CyngulateCortex 8 points 5 days ago
I also live in SoCal, I'm assuming if you went to a US college and can afford to live in LA your family in China is at least upper middle class. I previously lived in China about 5 years ago, and the thing that struck me the most was the difference in lifestyle/quality of life between rich and poor. We have similar issues in America, but not the extent I saw in China. I tend to judge a government by it's poorest citizens, and the poverty of the poorest is living in shanties in the woods, and the main problem is, that vast number of Chinese people live in poverty.

我也住在南加州，我猜测，如果你去了一所美国的大学，并且能够负担得起住在洛杉矶的费用，你的家庭至少算得上是上层中产阶级了。五年前我曾经在中国生活过，最让我震惊的是富人和穷人在生活方式和生活质量上的差异。我们在美国也碰到了类似的问题，但我在中国所看到的差异程度却不一样。我倾向于通过最贫穷的公民来评判一个政府，最贫穷的人生活在森林的棚屋里，而主要问题是：大量的中国人生活在贫困之中。

So your quality of life in China will be great when you go back, but remember that's NOT how most Chinese people live.

所以当你回去的时候，你在中国会过得很好，但是你要记住，这不是大多数中国人的生存状态。

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[–]Yuanlairuci 13 points 5 days ago
Nah brah. Sure, things in China are improving materialistically, but the government is shit, the economy is inflated, and nobody is allowed to make real improvements because saying anything negative about the CCP in a public setting will get you silenced one way or another. The US is fucked in plenty of ways, I get it, but the fundamentals are way better than in China. I like living in China because of the ability I have to work from home, save a decent amount of money,speak Chinese every day, and not have to deal with American pop culture, but if we're talking about general quality of life for the majority of people, you can't make an honest argument that China is or will be in the near future better than the US. If something drastic happens and the political system opens up to new ideas, people stop being so goddamned nationalistic and ignorant, and the wealth gap narrows, then sure China might overtake the US in terms of quality of life, but I'm not holding my breath.

不。当然了，中国的情况正在改善，但政府太垃圾，经济方面一直在通货膨胀，没有人获准进行真正的改进，因为在公共场合说任何批评CCP的负面言论都会让你因为某些原因而陷入沉默当中。我明白美国在很多方面都是有问题的，但它的基本面比中国好得多。我喜欢生活在中国，因为我有离开自己的家乡来这里工作的能力，我可以存下一大笔钱，每天都说汉语，而不必与美国流行文化打交道，但是如果我们谈论的是普罗大众的生活水平，你就不能做出在不久的将来中国或将比美国更好的诚实论断。如果发生了什么重大的事情，政治制度开始欢迎新思维，人们不再那么民族主义和无知，贫富差距开始缩小，那么中国才可能会在生活质量方面超越美国，但我对此不抱太大期望。

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[–]Monkeyfeng 10 points 5 days ago*
The fact that you have the right or privilege to criticize the US democratic system without consequences shows you are benefiting from the democratic system. You can't so the same in China without running into trouble and that is something more than just rule of law.

你有权批评美国的民主制度而不会招致任何后果这一事实就表明你正在从民主制度中受益。而在中国，你不可能不会因此陷入麻烦，这是不可能的，而这不仅仅是法治的问题。

*sorry, I don't know why my keyboard autocorrected to fuck when I wanted to say fact.. My apologies.

抱歉，我不知道为什么我的键盘在我想说出事实的时候自动进行更正。我很抱歉。

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[–]DangerWildpants 5 points 5 days ago
China is okay. I just hate big cities. If you ask me, the most toxic thing about China is the lack of common sense, decency, and how there is a lot of selfishness.

中国是不错的。我只是讨厌大城市。如果你问我中国最可怕的事情是什么，我认为是缺乏常识和礼貌，以及他们所表现出的自私的程度。

As for selfishness the older generation will shove their way onto trains, into lines, because they only think about themselves and their own immediate family (sometimes not even that far). You can even see them cut infront of ONLY YOU as your lined up in 7/11. Parents see their kids as "Investments" expecting money in exchange for just raising their kid. (My girlfriends father beat her for a huge portion of her life and he expects she pays him back for the "care" he provided.) People will fake accidents and blame others in order to get money under the table.

说到自私，中国老一辈的人会挤进列车里，会挤进排队队伍里，因为他们只考虑自己和自己的直系亲属(有时甚至不会考虑这么远)。在711买东西排队的时候，你甚至可以看到他们就直接插到你前面去。父母把他们的孩子当成一种“投资”，期待着他们的孩子会回报他们金钱。(我女朋友的父亲在她生命的大部分时间里都打她，并希望她为他所提供的“关怀”回报他。)人们会假装遭遇事故，然后指责别人，希望借此讹到钱。

As for common sense, parents putting their young kids in Mobikes baskets, always letting their kids play with dangerous things or in dangerous areas. People driving insanely. And i just find a lot of people lack the idea of safety. They think nothing bad can happen.

在这里常常可以看到父母把孩子放到摩拜单车的车篮里，总是让他们的孩子玩一些危险的东西，或者在危险的地方玩耍。人们开车很疯狂。我发现很多人都缺乏安全意识。他们认为不会有什么坏事会发生。

There are so many examples i see everyday that just is too much for me. It's honestly toxic. The younger generation is much better (Maybe because they have it easier?) and I'm sure Chinese will continue to evolve their character.

这样的例子我每天看到的太多了，对我来说真是够了。这是真的太糟糕了。年轻一代的表现会好一些(也许是因为他们获得东西更容易)，我相信中国人会继续发展他们的这种特性。

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[–]NinthPool 9 points 5 days ago*
Let's admit it. You can say America is not doing great jobs for years. But that's not the fault of democracy. Similarly, CCP's dictatorship should not get all the credits for the economy growth. Because if China had a more open and transparent market under a democratic and less corrupt government earlier than 1992, Chinese could have achieved way more than this. Noticing that all the Chinese people now are money-driven and don't dare to care a damn about public issues, I find it super hard for me to say China will have a brighter future in terms of people's living standard and happiness, unless the CCP is gone.

我们得承认这一点。你可以说美国多年来都表现得不好。但这不是民主制度的错。同样的，经济增长也不应归功于CCP的独裁统治。因为，如果中国在1992年之前通过一个民主的、更为廉洁的政府来实现市场的开放与透明化，那么中国就可能取得比现在更大的成就。

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[–]Benchen70 40 points 5 days ago
I am Asian, living in Australia, but Australia allows me to complain about Australia. I am allowed to join one of the major political parties, and complain about the party, which brings everyone together to debate. Is this right, is that right... etc. Sometimes I am wrong, because I fail to see all the issues, but sometimes I win, and help to improve the political rules. A tiny step for myself, but a big step for a foreigner in Australia.

我是亚洲人，现在住在澳大利亚，澳大利亚允许我抱怨澳大利亚。我可以加入一个主要的政党，并且批评这个政党，这让大家都聚在一起辩论。人们会认为这是正确的，或者那是正确的，等等。有时候我错了，因为我没有看到所有的问题，但有时我获得了胜利，并帮助改进了政治规则。对我来说这是一小步，但对一个身处澳大利亚的外国人来说，这却是一大步。

I think I have said enough.

我想我说的已经够多的了。

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[–]DiscoTut 7 points 5 days ago
If China's political system was the way of the future, you'd have westerners emigrating. There are hundreds of thousands of Chinese that emigrate to democratic countries every year. The amount of westerners that try for Chinese citizenship can be counted on one hand.

如果中国的政治制度是未来的发展方向，你就会有西方人移民流入。每年有成千上万的中国人移民到民主国家。试图获得中国公民身份的西方人的数量可以用一只手算出来。

China has nothing, nothing to offer the developed world.

中国没有什么可以提供给发达国家的。

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[–]gaoshanUnited States 2 points 5 days ago
I understand how you feel but I think your opinion of the U.S. is probably more accurate than your assessment of your own. The thing about the deficiencies you see in western democracy (as you experience it in the U.S.) is that these very weaknesses are in fact one of the things that make it strong. The highs may not be as high as you would expect but conversely the lows will not be as low as you imagine. Our system is messy and very far from perfect but it is resilient and flexible. China is ascendent right now. On it's way up and up. Things are new and growing and it feels good. However, I see the Chinese system as inflexible and not resilient. When things are going well, it works. I fear, though (and I am very fond of my Chinese friends and family so I do not want them to suffer) that when things go bad they will go very bad indeed.

我理解你的感受，但我认为你对美国的看法可能比你对自己国家的评价更准确。你在西方民主国家看到的不足之处(正如你在美国所经历的)实际上正是使它变得强大的原因之一。它最好的地方可能没有你所想象的那么好，但反过来，它最差的地方也不会像你想象的那么差。我们的系统很混乱，离完美状态还很远，但它具有弹性和灵活性。中国现在正在崛起。它在不断向上发展。事物都是新的、不断发展的，所以感觉很好。然而，我认为中国的体制是僵化的，没有弹性的。当一切顺利时，它会起作用。但我感到害怕，（虽然我非常喜欢我的中国朋友和家人所以我不想让他们受苦），因为当事情变得糟糕时，情况会变得非常糟糕。