中国聘用英语老师应基于其教学技能而不是出生地 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



China should choose English teachers based on skill not birthplace

中国聘用英语老师应基于其教学技能而不是出生地


-------------译者：风起云团-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]ipostwatches 
If you want skills you must pay $.
To a "qualified" English teacher China is already a worse place to go than Japan or Korea. Those that decide to go to China for the experience or culture decide to earn less money.

如果想要技术型人才是需要真金白银的。对于“有资质的”英语教师而言，中国是比日本或韩国更糟糕的地方。那些决定去中国发展的人是为了经验和体验文化，才会接受更少的薪水。

If you raise the standards say goodbye to all the teachers. Because no fully-qualified (as in could work as a teacher in the west) will work for $1000 a month.
"English is nobody’s native tongue."
Incredibly non nonsensical statement.

如果你要提高教师的标准，就要解雇所有的老师了。因为任何拥有完全资质的教师（指可以在西方国家工作的教师）都不会接受月薪1000美元的工作。
“没有任何人的母语是英语”——真是毫无意义的荒谬言论。

[–]SharpyShuffle
You're comparing apples and oranges here though: of course unqualified teachers make less money than qualified ones. "Fully qualified licensed teachers" from an English-speaking country can make far more than 21k a month in China.

你这根本就是拿苹果跟橘子比：无资质的老师挣的钱肯定是比有资质的老师少的。对于那些来自英语国家且拥有“全资质及教师执照”的人来说，在中国一个月可以挣到2万1甚至更多。

[–]HautamakiCanada 
So? I made 35-40k per month in China. If you are qualified and know how to actually talk to schools and parents about your qualifications you can make good money in China. The only real salary gap in China is if you never bother to learn the language. If you learn Chinese you can cut out the middlemen and make money as good or better than almost anywhere else on Earth.

所以嘞？我在中国一个月挣3万5到4万。如果你有资质并且知道该怎么向学校和家长介绍你的资历及情况，那你在中国可以获得不错的报酬。在中国唯一决定你薪资差距的因素是你不去学习（当地的）语言。如果你中文不错，那你可以直接跳过中介（来找工作），并且挣的钱可能比世界上任何地方都好。

[–]JustInChina88  
Was this before or after all the under the table teaching?

这些指的是正式上课还是课外私下授课？

[–]HautamakiCanada  
After of course. Not even in Shanghai can you make 40k over the table and I was in Harbin. If you aren't going to be comfortable working under the table I would not recommend you come to China at all as at least 70% of the money made here is made under the table in some way regardless of what industry or sector you work in.

当然是私下的。我是在哈尔滨（工作），要是在上海课外辅导你可以挣到4万以上。要是你不太喜欢私下授课，那我劝你还是别来中国为好，在这里无论你在哪里或从事什么工作，至少70%的钱来自于私底下进行的活动。

-------------译者：风起云团-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]Dorigoon
Completely agree - the real money is in organizing your own private work directly with parents.

正解——真正挣钱的方法是直接与（学生）父母联系来进行私人辅导。

[–]ipostwatches 
But the article is talking about raising the skill requirement. So if they raise the skill requirement to want fully qualified and licensed teachers only every school would need to start paying 21k or more.
People are getting what they pay for. Instead of blaming the lack of qualified teachers on the teachers themselves they should be blaming people not paying enough to attract qualified teachers.

但文章的主题是对技能需求的增长。所以如果（中国方面）提升要求，只要拥有全资质和教师执照的人，那每个学校提供的薪水都必须是2万1起步了。人们得到的和付出的成正比。所以他们应该反思为什么没能提供足够的薪水来吸引有能力的全资质教师，而不是抱怨缺乏全资质教师人员。

[–]HautamakiCanada 
Parents in China pay plenty. The problem is in parents having no idea how to uate what they are paying for and foreign teachers not being able to actually talk to the parents because they don't bother to learn Chinese. The result is that unscrupulous Chinese middlemen can charge 10k tuition per month and pay the teacher 150 rmb per class keeping 95% of the profits.

中国家长是很慷慨的。但问题是那些家长并不了解他们雇佣的那些外国教师的情况，他们之间几乎没有实际交谈过，因为（那些外国老师）并不想学中文。结果就是那些无节操的中国中介一个月从中收取1万的费用，只付给老师每节课150元，他们自己拿走剩下95%的利润。

[–]kulio_forever 
no the issue would be which particular qualifications and licenses would be sufficient

不，问题在于究竟什么样才算是拥有“全资质及教师执照”。

[–]TheDark1 
The correct way to use foreign teachers is as a supplement to speakers of the students' native language. For this reason foreign teachers should be judged primarily on their speaking ability.

正确使用外教的方式是将其作为学生自身母语的口语补充。基于这点，聘请外教首先要判断他们的口语能力。

Unfortunately the entire English teaching industry is designed simply to make money not to provide a high quality education. There are some people (myself included) striving to change this but the mega schools have such deep pockets that it is very hard to actually change anything. The parents fall for the megaschools marketing tricks because they know no better. The megaschools choose foreign teachers based on their marketing needs not their teaching needs.
Every foreign teacher has been in this position at least once: they are pushed into a classroom with kids they've never met with no teaching plan or materials and told "just talk to them."

可惜的是，整个英语教育产业都以赚钱为目的，而非提供更高质量的教育。有些人（包括我自己）试图改变这一点，但是这些大规模学校财力雄厚，所以很难做出大的改变。学生家长们则完全掉进了学校的商业陷阱，因为他们对此不甚了解。而学校选择老师则基于其市场需求，而不是教学需求。这种情况几乎每个外教都至少遇到过一次：他们被推进一间教室，里面全是他们从没见过的学生，没有任何教学计划或教具，他们被告知“只要跟学生们讲话就行了”。

Don't blame the deficiencies of the industry on the quality of the foreign teachers blame it on the quality of the administrators.

不要把整个行业的问题归咎于教师队伍的素质了，真正的责任落在管理层上。

-------------译者：谑E-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]TeeribleMureal 
"The correct way to use foreign teachers is as a supplement to speakers of the students' native language. For this reason foreign teachers should be judged primarily on their speaking ability."
While there is truth in this and this is probably correct for the most part there are some of us who have been teaching here for many years and who are confident in our ability to teach every aspect of the language using translations when necessary.

”正确使用外教的方式是将其作为学生自身母语的口语补充。基于这点，聘请外教首先要判断他们的口语能力。“
这段话说明了一个事实，且内容大部分都是正确的，我们中的一些人在（中国）教学多年且对自己语言的各方面教学能力有自信，在必要时也会使用翻译。

[–]TheDark1 
"While there is truth in this and this is probably correct for the most part there are some of us who have been teaching here for many years and who are confident in our ability to teach every aspect of the language using translations when necessary."
I also count myself in that number but like you say you've been here for many years.... it's simply impossible to source a large number of foreign teachers who have this skill set.

”这段话说明了一个事实，且内容大部分都是正确的，我们中的一些人在（中国）教学多年且对自己语言的各方面教学能力有自信，在必要时也会使用翻译。“
我同样也算是在这一部分人中，但就像你说的，你已经在这待了许多年了....要想找到大量有此技能组合的外教是不可能的。

[–]TeeribleMureal 
Agreed.

赞同

[–]HautamakiCanada 
It would be easy if they didn't treat the people that come here like shit. Like TheDark1 says use the fresh off the boat foreign teachers as TAs--glorified tape players-- for a year or two while the foreign teacher learns oral Chinese to the point that they can run a class on their own. At that point they are ready to be real teachers (assuming they came over with proper training and qualification to teach EFL) and they ought to be able to command real teacher money. As the teacher gains experience and more proficiency in Chinese they can teach larger and younger groups of students and make commensurately more money.
That is the track that foreign teachers should be on but so very few actually are and those that do go that route tended to sort of luck into it. There isn't a consciousness of how best to develop and use the abilities of foreign teachers either on the part of Chinese schools/agencies or on the part of new teachers themselves. It was pure luck on my part that I ended up on that route and as a result I did very well. Most of the other teachers I knew didn't do the same thing and had a much harder time as a result.

如果他们能对来这里（教学）的人好点的话，（找大量外教）这事就会容易些了。就像TheDark1说的，雇用初来乍到的外教作为助教——说好听点是（助教），其实是被当成“录音机”了——直到一两年后，外教他们会说点汉语了才可以独立上课。到那时，他们才算是真正的教师（假设他们来中国前已受过相关的培训且获得了教EFL的教学资格），那时他们也应该得到真正的教师薪酬。当教师不断增强汉语上的经验和熟练程度，他们可以教授一批更多且更小年纪的学生，相应得赚取更多的钱。这就是一条外教应走的路，但是仅仅只有一小部分人能做到，而走上这条路的那些人往往都是有些运气的成分在内。大家都没有意识该怎样去发展和利用外籍教师的能力，不论是中国的学校/机构还是教师自己。就我来说我是十分幸运的，因为我最终走上了那条路，而且我做的很不错。我所认识的大部分其他教师没能做到且过得更艰难。
（译者注：EFL=English as a Foreign Language：作为外语的英语教学，非母语的英语教学）

-------------译者：chengsuo-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]imanimmigrant
Sure.
The only reason apart from skill to choose a foreign English teacher is that a native speaker will be usually be a better model for natural sounding English than a non Native speaker.
Ideally there should be a mix of native speakers and local Chinese English teachers. I don't know what that ratio should be.
As for non Native speakers there is a place for you and I'm sure you're really nice but you are in competition with the local teachers and there is no inherent advantage in having you

当然该如此。不从技能考虑选择英语外教的原因只有一个，那就是母语为英语的教学者通常比非母语教学者能更好地示范出自然的英语发音。理想的状态应该是母语外教和当地英语老师都要有。当然我不知道这个两者的比例应该取多少。至于非母语的教学者，你能有这份岗位说明你还是很出色的，但是和你竞争的是英语为母语的当地教师，你缺少那种与生俱来的优势。

[–]HaggisDumplings  
"in competition with the local teachers...no inherent advantage"
Outside of tier 1 many Chinese teachers of English actually have pretty poor English. Like IELTS 5 or so. It gets worse the further out into the provinces or into the countryside you go. Public school teaching is not an especially well paid job in China. People with very good English skills tend to get into something else. Philippines is way above China in English proficiency as are several East European countries.
http://www.ef.edu/epi/

“但是要和当地的教师竞争的话.....你没什么与生俱来的优势。”
除了一线城市，很多中国英语老师英语都很差劲的。差不多雅思5分或类似的水平。省外或农村乡下的英语老师，其教学水平就更糟了。在中国公立学校任教的工作薪酬并不是很高。那些英语技能很好的人一般会另谋生路。菲律宾的英语掌握程度比中国高多了，和东欧的一些国家差不多。

[–]kulio_forever
I agree completely a lot of people in Philippines have great English of course slightly accented but far far above say 80% of Chinese teachers of English being charitable

完全同意这点，菲律宾的许多人英语的确都很不错，当然或多或少会有点口音，但是比中国80％的英语老师还是好多了，这数字我还算是说得低了呢。
 
–]kvothe_q 
Anyone who defends the inherent superiority of native English speakers as teachers has already fallen to prey  the illusion sold on China. It's comfortable to think that we are useful by virtue of our mother tongues but Scandinavians have been learning English incredibly well with well-trained non-native teachers for years. Sure there may be a point where you'll need one in order to go that one extra mile to really sounding native but that's irrelevant to most school kids. Unless people are a match in teaching skills and experience and you need a tie breaker I just don't see why e.g. a Brit should be chosen over a well-trained German by virtue of their mother tongue.

任何一个辩护说英语为母语的人有天然优势的人，都被中国营造的假象给骗了。认为我们的母语口音很有用，想想当然很美好。但是斯堪的纳维亚人在没有所谓英语母语外教的教学下，已经非常好的掌握英语很多年了。当然，确实有些时候你需要加把劲让口音听起来更地道，但是这和绝大多数学校的孩子没什么关系。除非在教学技能和教学经验上你和对手水平相当，否则我不明白为什么别人不选一个训练良好的德国人仅仅因为英语不是他的母语。

-------------译者：花开花落花满天-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]TeeribleMureal 
Because a well educated Brit will have a larger vocabulary range and a better understanding of confusing and commonly misused grammar points. To think otherwise is folly. Even for simple everyday nouns there are many times when a German etc. will not know the word for that particular item.

因为受过良好教育的英国人拥有更大的词汇量，能够更好的理解混乱和普遍被误用的语法点。对此有其他想法的人太愚蠢了。即使是简单的日常名词，很多时候也可能是德国等（其他国的人）不知道的特定项目的单词。

[–]kvothe_q 
I'd rather go for a German with a more limited vocab who knows how to teach than a random Brit without any teaching experience. In the end students will benefit more from actually understanding the underlying grammar than knowing that they can say "imbibe" instead of "drink".

我宁愿选择一个词汇量有限的德国人，也不选择一个没有任何教学经验的随机英国人。最后，学生们能真正理解从基本语法中获益，而不单单是会用高级词汇，如用“imbibe（喝）”而不用“drink”这个基本词汇。

[–]TeeribleMureal
I completely agree with you on that there is no substitute for experience.

我完全同意你的观点，没有什么可以代替经验。

[–]kvothe_q 
Yeah that's what I meant above - experience should be the primary deciding factor but language background can obviously be the tie breaker if teachers are tied on experience and skill.

是的，这就是我上述的观点——经验应该是主要的决定因素，但是非英语母语教师和英语母语教师两者在教学经验和技能上旗鼓相当，那么决定胜负的因素则是有无英语语言背景。

[–]TeeribleMureal  
Exactly. And if they are still tied then it should come down to personality not looks but most Chinese operated shitty training centres seem to think that looks are the most important factor (god I hate those places).

完全正确。如果这样他们还不能分出胜负，那就应该从教师的个性考虑而不是外表，但大多数中国人经营的垃圾培训中心似乎认为外表才是最重要的因素(上帝，我超讨厌那些地方)。

[–]kvothe_q 
Yeah I think we can all agree that the status quo right now is far from optimal :/

是的，我认为我们都挺满意目前的现状，但这远不是最理想的。 :/

-------------译者：别管我是谁-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]TeeribleMureal 
Absolutely there are so many myths ingrained into Chinese parents concerning foreign English teachers that it can be a constant struggle for those of us who have been doing it for years and have decided to make a business/career out of it. For example foreigners can't teach grammar Chinese English teachers love telling parents this (inexperienced teachers can't teach grammar because of their inexperience and also because of their lack of Chinese). American and British English are two different languages and it is more useful to learn American English (again a lot of Chinese English teachers still tell parents this crap which says a lot about their knowledge of the subject they are paid to teach). The best way to use a foreign teacher is simply to get them to speak to your kid (no idiot the best way to use any teacher is to find a good experienced one and get them to instruct your kid properly utilizing a tried and tested program of study). You will always need a Chinese teacher because foreigners learn differently and don't understand the Chinese way etc. etc. etc..

毫无疑问，很多中国父母对英语外教存有很多奇怪的误解和担忧，以至于让我们这些从事多年的英语外教并决定将其作为一项生意/事业的人（为打破这种错误的认知）不断地斗争。比如：中国的英语老师们很喜欢告诉学生家长老外教不了语法（因为外教他们经验不足且中文太差，所以教不了语法）；美式英语和英式英语是两种不同的语言，而学美式的更有用（许多中国英语老师再一次同家长们讲了这种废话，从他们对这个课程方面的了解和他们教该课程是有报酬的方面劝告家长）；使用外教最好的办法就是让他们和你的孩子说说话（不是这样的，蠢货，最好的办法应该是找个经验丰富的好老师，然后让他们遵循一套恰当可靠的、试过确实有效的学习程序来教导你的孩子）；还有什么你永远应该找中国人教孩子英语，因为老外的学习方法和中国人不同且他们不理解中国人的思维方式，等等...等等...诸如此类的废话。

The fact that most places are filled with inexperienced (bad) teachers only exacerbates these myths but that is to be expected because China will never be a good career choice for most serious teachers for a host of reasons. Therefor they have to use people who either come here to teach after graduation for a year or two before they go back to enter the real world or people who are sick of their career path back home and want to try something different.

事实上许多地方都充斥着没经验的（糟糕）老师，而这加剧了这些错误的认知，不过这在意料之中，因为对真正严肃的好老师来说由于诸多原因中国永远不会是一个好的职业选择地。因此他们不得不用那些刚毕业一两年还没回国了解现实世界（的残酷）就来这儿教书的老外，或是那些厌倦了在自己国家内的职业生涯想要尝试不同事物的人。

[–]HaggisDumplings
So true.
"foreigners can't teach grammar"
A Chinese English teacher said something like this in a group conversation I was involved in once (knowing full well that I am a professionally qualified career teacher).
I blurted out "but you can't say a single sentence without making a grammar mistake!".
She was really upset, haha.

没错。
“老外不会教语法”
在某次我参加的小组讨论中，一个中国英语老师就说了句像这样的话（在很清楚我是一名专业的很有资历的职业英语教师的情况下）。
我脱口而出，“但你连简单的一句不带语法错误的句子都说不出！”
她瞬间难过了。哈哈。

-------------译者：竹笋煮鹤2017-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]blerg232324
The problem is just raw corruption in the schools
I have been auditing a series of American university's that have opened campuses in china to maintain there accreditation over the past year- the person who had my job before me had been doing it for 10 years and no previous knowledge of china its schools or its culture he just went in observed a class or two and reviewed the syllabi and resumes given.

学校里的腐败现象才是难题。 我审计了一系列去年在中国开设了分校以维持资格认证的美国大学——在我之前做这份工作（审计）的人已经做了10年之久，对中国的学校或其文化丝毫不了解，他只是走进校园，旁听了一两门课，评估了下学校给出的教学大纲和简历。

I however have a family member who is a nut job who went full sex pat and ran off to china 6 years ago to be tefl idiot- i know every detail about how fake these schools operate.

然而，我有个家庭成员，他是个疯子，6年前为了成为外教那个白痴跑到中国去了——所以我知道这些虚假学校是如何暗箱操作的。

understand i am not auditing little happy giraffe fake schools I am reviewing the qualifications and backgrounds of AMERICAN university operating inside china with the goal that they can then transfer credits to other american university.

请理解，我不是在审核快乐的长颈鹿这个虚假学校，我正在审查的是美国大学在中国境内运作的资格和背景，他们的目标是他们可以转学分至其他美国大学。

NOT ONE CAMPUS I HAVE SEEN HAS BEEN LEGITIMATE

我审核的每一个学校都不合法。

Every school employed fake teachers with fake degrees with fake references they didn't have real textbooks no one was certified in the teaching area they where teaching- it was all lies.

每一所学校都雇用持造假学位的老师，参考书也是假的，他们并没有真正的教科书，没有人在教学领域得到认证——所有的一切都是谎言。

As far as I can tell- if it is not math or science something with obxtive fact based learning that can be memorized and reported back to the teacher typically on video- the chinese education model simply can't do it- they just do not have the structure because of the enormous and non stop corruption

据我所知——如果不是数学、科学或是以客观事实为基础的这种可以录下来并反馈给老师的学习课程——这种中国教育模式是行不通的——因越发严重的且永无止尽的腐败现象，他们完全就没有教学建构。

-------------译者：寻数控5轴加工-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]DiebytheSword666[🍰] 
My school tends to hire illegal part-time teachers. At the moment there's this musclebound mofo from Mother Russia and his fellow comrade - a girl who looks like Audrey Hepburn-ovich.

我在的学校往往倾向于雇佣非法的兼职老师。那时有个从俄罗斯来的浑身肌肉的家伙和他的伙伴——一个长得像奥黛丽·赫本维奇的女孩。

They both have thick accents. And when we're preparing I have to bite my lip when they ask me vocabulary from the lessons. "Vas is dis vord? I have no experience vis deez vocabularies."
Are the students angry? Hell no these two are attractive and can speak some Chinese so they're good as gold.

他们俩都有非常重的口音。当他们准备课件问我课本里的单词时，我常一言不发咬着嘴唇。“Vas is dis vord?（What is this word?”这个单词是什么？）这些单词（vis deez=with these)我没什么经验。学生们对此生气吗？当然不生气，那两位很有吸引力还能讲一些中文，所以学生们把他们当金元宝一样。

[–]ribeye789United States
I am American and my English is much better than almost all non-native speakers. Oh sorry! But it's true.
China needs native speakers to fix the errors taught by the low-cost non-native speakers. I am so tired of fixing all the Chinglish errors and the additional errors and plainly bad pronunciation and speech taught by the non-natives. God the writing. Sometimes unintelligible. The students' listening suffers because they do not recognize the proper pronunciation of even some common words.

我是美国人，我的英语比那些非英语母语者的好太多了。哦，不好意思，但这是真的。中国需要英语母语者去纠正那些廉价非英语母语者留下的错误。那些非英语母语者教的中式英语的错误以及明显的错误发音和口语表达，我已经纠正到不胜其烦了。天啊，还有习作。写的东西简直不知所云。学生们听力糟糕就在于他们不能辨识出哪怕是常用词的正确发音。

Non-natives ensure that the Chinese students will forever struggle to score higher than 5.0 on the IELTS but the schools save money hiring non-natives and actually ensure a steady stream of revenue with IELTS/TOEFL courses to pretend to fix the students' flawed speech.
But hey some Russian girls are hot! In my Tier88 the non-natives demand equal pay or more for their teaching. I just laugh.
Yes some non-natives are qualified but certainly not most.

非英语母语者确保中国的学生会永远为在雅思考试中取得超过5.0的高分而努力，而学校通过雇佣了廉价的非英语母语者假装纠正了学生的错误口语来确保雅思/托福课程的稳定收益。但是，嘿，一些俄罗斯妞真的很火辣哦！在我呆的小城里，非英语母语者竟然要求同等薪酬或者更多，对此我呵呵笑。当然，有些非英语母语者是合格的，但是肯定不多。

[–]razorl 
but those parents are not pay for education they are pay for the satisfaction of seeing a white teaching their child.

那些父母不是为了教育花钱，是在为满意于看见一个白人教师教他们的孩子而花钱。