跨文化情感交往 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：roroho-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



OhmicPantograph 
Not trolling but trying to understand and didn't know where else to ask this...

不是为了挑事，而是想试着去理解且不知道还能去哪里问这个问题........

After another odd experience spending time with a white male/Chinese female couple my husband and I were wondering about the nature of the cross cultural relationships that we see here.

在又一段与白人男性/中国女性夫妇的奇特经历之后，我和丈夫开始思考我们在这里看到的跨文化关系的本质。

We're both western and during our 5 years in China we've spent time with other foreigners and their Chinese partners. Almost all of these relationships seem to be characterized by both parties adopting these strange roles where the guy is almost paternal in the way he speaks to his girlfriend/wife. Talking down to her in an infantalizing way with the tone of a father or at least how an adult would speak to a child.

我们俩都是西方人，在中国的5年里，我们常和其他外国人以及他们的中国伴侣聚在一起玩。在这些关系中双方都表现出了奇怪的角色设定，男性对他的女朋友/妻子说话的方式几乎就像是父亲一样。以一种对待幼儿的父亲般的口吻跟她说话，或者至少是成年人对小孩子的那种说话方式。

The girls play this obedient role and play up the whole 撒娇 thing. Western men often seem to speak for their partners or cajole them into saying something (or even eating/drinking something if we're in that kind of setting). Again like a parent telling their child to speak up or eat their dinner/make sure they have something to drink.

女性们扮演的是顺从听话的角色，还常常玩玩撒娇的把戏。西方男人通常会替他们的伴侣说或者哄着她们来说某些事情（在那种情况下甚至是吃东西或喝东西这种事也要这样做）。再次重申，就像老爸老妈叫他们的孩子大声说话或把晚饭吃了/确保他们有喝的东西。

Additionally this is often coupled the with man being really touchy-feely with quite possessive touching and body language. It's quite uncomfortable for me to witness at times.

而且在这些夫妇/伴侣中通常都是男方非常腻腻歪歪的，且占有欲很强通过肢体语言宣誓所有权。有的时候亲眼目睹这些会让我觉得很不舒服。

This doesn't seem to change if the guy is fresh off the boat or if he's been here for many years. One western colleague grew up here and we thought that might result in a different dynamic but he and his wife are exactly the same. It actually makes us feel uncomfortable spending time with them.

不管男方是初来乍到中国还是已经在中国待了很多年，这种（腻歪的现象）丝毫不见改变。我有一位西方同事是在这里（中国）长大的，然后我们就想这应该会有些不一样吧，结果他和他的妻子也完全是这种情况。跟他们聚在一起时这真的是让我们觉得很不舒服。

These often seem like really imbalanced frankly unfulfilling relationships. Nobody seems particularly happy or in love in the way that perhaps couples in our home country do. Is it purely a physical thing for most couples? Is that enough?

这些通常看起来像是不平衡的关系，坦白讲是不令人称心满意的关系。看起来似乎没有哪一方会特别幸福，也没有人会像我们祖国的夫妻那样相爱。对大多数夫妻来说，这纯粹只是生理上的问题吗？那样（的关系）就足够了吗？


-------------译者：Mmememe-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]Natethegreat13
Cross-cultural relationships have a unique element that same-culture relationships don't. They aren't based on sharing similar cultural references and jokes nods to old activities and shared experiences. They are more based on breaking through the differences in culture and finding a middle ground on which to stand and build from. They build from nothing instead of from a common foundation.

跨文化的感情交往有一个同文化交往没有的独特因素，因为这种跨文化的交往不是建立在相似的文化参照、可以共同理解的笑话、共有的经历和活动上的，他们（跨文化交往）更多是建立在打破文化中的差异之后找到两个文化相容相通的地方上的，立足于这种求同存异并将这种跨文化关系发展壮大。这种关系的基础不是来自彼此的共通之处，而是从虚无创造出来的。

For example in Chinese culture the women don't talk when men are talking at a gathering. Men sit around the table smoking drinking and conversing and women typically play with their phones or break off into their own conversation. In the West everyone's opinion and voice is treated equally. So in these situations when the company is mostly Western (I'm assuming).. the man takes more of a role of fostering the woman into the conversation and speaking for her (if her English isn't good enough to cut into a conversation) and making sure she is comfortable (as she is probably way out of her comfort zone)
Another thing to realize is that their relationship is probably NOTHING LIKE what you see in public. When two people have the privacy of their own home the whole dynamic can change.

比如说，在中国的文化中，在聚会中男士讲话的时候女士不可以讲话。男士围坐在桌子吸烟、喝酒、交谈，而女士则更倾向于玩手机或是和其他女士讨论自己的话题。在西方，每个人的意见和想法都被很平等地对待。所以说在这种情形下，当跨文化的另一方大多数是西方人的时候（我假设），男士们则更多地在谈话中护着女士，或者是替她们讲话（如果她的英语还没有好到能够加入他们的交谈的地步），并且要保证女士们处于一种舒服的状态（因为她明显不在自己熟悉的舒适区里）。另一点需要注意的是，他们之间的关系和你们在公共场合上看到的状态完全不同。当他们两个人私下在家的时候，整个互动方式会发生变化。

I'm sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable but I imagine if the roles were reversed it might be something along the same lines. You would be fostered into conversation because your Chinese isn't quite good enough and they would take care to make sure you aren't put on the spot or embarrassed in front of company.

我很抱歉，他们的这种相处模式让你觉得不是很舒服，但是在我看来如果男女双方角色互换的话，情况也是类似的。你将在交谈的过程中被照顾，因为你的中文还不是很好，而他们要保证你没有被为难感到尴尬或者是在另一半面前丢脸。

To you it might not seem "fulfilling" but I guarantee you many people are fulfilled by the seemingly "cutesy" "撒娇“ type of attitude.
Different strokes for different folks.

在你看来，这可能不是一段“令人满意”的关系，但是我向你保证，很多人都很满足于（女方）这种看似撒娇的态度。

(Also aside from everything I've said. Some men are just dicks. They are control freaks who treat their girlfriends like a toy and laugh and patronize them every chance they get. They feel like because they don't share a first language they can take advantage of them and humiliate them in public for their own gain. Fuck those people)

（除了我说的这些，还有一点就是可能有些男的是渣男。他们是控制狂，他们把自己的女友当玩具一样对待，他们抓住每一个能够嘲笑或者傲视自己伴侣的机会。他们觉得因为他们没有共同的母语，所以他们可以借机利用这点，并在公共场合当众羞辱另一半以获得自己的利益。去他们的这些人！）

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]bigbagofdumb 
Yeah I remember when I asked my buddy if his girlfriend was alright because she never spoke when we were out. But he pointed out that when they go out with her friends he's the quiet one.

是的，我记得我问我的哥们他女朋友没事吧，因为我们出去的时候她从没说过话。但他指出，当他们和她的朋友一起出来玩时，他反倒是那个安静的人。

[–]ponyplopGreat Britain 
'Talking down' could just be your interpretation of them negotiating the language barrier- unless I know I'm talking to a native or 100% fluent speaker I slow down my speaking and simplify my sentences for most people that I meet here.
As for touchy-feely I don't know I don't really subscribe to PDA but each to their own.

以居高临下的口气说话” 可能只是你单方面对他们沟通中出现的语言障碍的解释—除非我知道自己是在和一个母语者或说（某种语言）100%流利的人说话，否则我会放慢我的语速，对这里遇见的大多数人我会简化自己的用句。至于腻歪的情感表现，我不太清楚，我是不太赞成秀恩爱行为，但还是看个人喜欢吧。

(译者注：PDA = Public Display of Affection）
I've never had a relationship with a Chinese woman but I dated a Thai woman for almost fourteen years and I spoke almost fluent Thai before we ever met. The gender roles are somewhat similar so I'll put my two cents in.

我从没和中国女人谈过恋爱，但我和一个泰国女人约会了将近14年，在我们见面之前，我泰语基本上就说的很流利了。我们之间的性别角色模式与这类似，所以我就发表一些个人的微薄看法。
（译者注：put my two cents in是美语中表达自己意见的习惯开场白）

I was the first westerner she'd dated. She was a very traditional Thai woman so she didn't want to wash her underwear with mine wanted to put her head below mine as she walked by and wouldn't step across me to save her life. "Docile." Yet she was the pick of the litter when it came to standing up for herself. I tried dating done others and they were all much more docile than she was.

我是她约会的第一个西方人。她是一个非常传统的泰国女人，所以她不想一起混着洗我和她的内裤，当她走过的时候，她想把她的小脑袋放在我的头上，她不会为了保住自己的性命而置我于不顾。是个“温顺听话”的女人。然而，当她该挺身而出为自己辩护的时候，她却成了废物。我试着和别人约会过，她们都比她更温顺。

When we met she knew written but not spoken English and most of our interaction was in Thai. When we rarely met foreign friends I needed to help her along and make sure she understood what was going on and either straight translate for her if I didn't care about including the others or speak in slow simple phrases of I need the other English speakers to know what was going on.

当我们见面时，她会书写英语但不会说英语，所以我们大部分的交流都是用泰语进行的。当我们遇到少数外国朋友时，我需要帮她（翻译）以确保她理解发生了什么事，如果我不关心其他人（的回复时），我会直接翻译给她听，或者当我需要其他讲英语的人知道发生了什么事时，我会语速放慢以简单的短语告诉她。

That was all true while we stayed in Thailand even after years. It wasn't until she started living abroad with me that she felt she could step out of the traditional Thai woman's role. Over the next few years she became an expat in several countries keeping what she liked about her culture and adopting things she liked from others. Her media input moved from mostly Thai to mostly American.

我说的这一切都是真的，即使我们在泰国待了几年后都是如此。直到她开始和我住在国外，她才觉得自己可以走出传统泰国女人的角色。在接下来的几年里，她成为了几个国家的外籍人士，保留着泰国文化中她喜欢的部分，并接纳融合了（其他文化中）她喜欢的东西。她的媒体输入（自身的思维意识）从基本上都是泰国文化的到基本上都是美国文化的。

Within a few years she was an awesomely sassy woman who wouldn't take shit from anyone.

几年之内，她就变成一个非常时髦的女人，不再受任何人欺负。

So my takeaway from this is that like many expats she couldn't break free of the parts of her culture that she didn't agree with until she was outside her culture and even then it took years to unlearn those bits. All the time I supported her psychologically (possibly babying her in OP's eyes) because that transition is hard. I wanted her to follow me less but you can't just dump someone in the deep end of the pool and tell them to swim.
And in the end there were parts of her culture that she loved and didn't want to give up. And reverse culture shock was a bitch when we went back to live in Thailand. So much so that I think it was a major factor in our breakup.

因此，我的结论是，像许多外籍人士一样，身处自己国家的文化氛围时她无法摆脱掉其中自己不认同的部分，直到她身处异国文化时（才能得以解脱），甚至需要耗费多年才能洗涤忘却掉那些陈腐文化的烙印。一直以来，我都是在心理上支持她(可能是以观察者的角度照看她)，因为这种（心境的）转变很艰难。我希望她能别老跟着我，但对她一个初来乍到全新陌生环境的无助的人来说，我不能弃她于不顾让她自己一个人去适应这陌生的国度。
到了最后，她自己的文化中有些部分是她深爱的不想放弃掉的。当我们重回泰国生活时，逆反文化冲击（一个在海外生活过的人返回本国后所经历的文化震动）简直是个祸害。甚至我认为这是我们分手的一个主要原因。

-------------译者：竹笋煮鹤2017-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]OhmicPantograph[S]
I thought about this but my colleague for example grew up here and his Chinese is at a native level but the roles still persist. It was actually having dinner with him and his wife last night that prompted this post as we presumed that their relationship would be different due to there being no language barrier. Also language fluency doesn't seem to correlate with my other experiences of this.

我也有想过这一点，但就好比在中国长大的我的同事，他的中文达到中文母语者程度，但这性别角色相处模式依然存在。事实上，是昨晚和他及其他妻子共进晚餐时（的发现）引起了我们的这个猜测，即他们之间的情感关系会因有无语言沟通障碍而不同。另外，语言流畅性似乎与我的其他经历无关。

[–]buz1984
It's more relevant whether she's native level English.
I've also observed this but it's not just couples. I think some people have a subconscious shift in attitude when they know they need to speak clearly.
Maybe these peopleare more likely to end up with a partner who speaks another language ("he's always so helpful and easy to understand")

更重要的是女方的英语水平是否达到英语母语者程度。
我也观察到了这一点，但这不只发生在夫妻之间。我认为，有些人意识到他们需要清楚说话时，会下意识地改变态度。也许这类人更可能会和说另一种语言的人结成伴侣。(“他总是那么乐于助人，很容易理解”)

[–]ratsta 
I lived in a small town so there weren't too many foreigners but the four WMAF couples that I knew behaved just like couples back home. The guys treated their wives as equals and there was no sajiao'ing that I noticed. Similarly with the AMAF couples.
I lived about 3 hrs south of Shanghai where the men tend towards be handbags rather than boorish. Maybe that affected it?

我住在一个小镇上，所以没有太多的外国人，但我认识的四对白男亚女夫妇就像普通的夫妇一样。男人们都平等地对待他们的妻子，我没有注意到他们之间有什么撒娇的行为。就跟亚男亚女夫妇一样。我住在上海以南大约需要3小时（车程）的地方，那里的男人倾向于（帮女生拿）手提包，而不是举止粗鲁毫无绅士风度。这可能是造成（撒娇现象）的原因？

[–]rogerwilco42
Many Chinese women have told me that they are seeking a man that treats them like a daughter or at least how they think a father should treat a daughter.
Spoil them do everything for them love them unconditionally etc.

许多中国女性告诉我，她们在找一个对待她们像疼爱女儿一样的男人，或者她们认为至少是像一个父亲疼爱女儿的那样。溺爱她们、为她们做任何事情、无条件地爱他们等等。

My guess is that many Chinese women have unfulfilling or disappointing relationships with their own father so they are seeking a substitute.

我的猜测是，许多中国女性与自己的父亲关系不佳或令人失望，所以她们在寻找替代品。

Guys that have dated Shanghainese women have probably encountered women that expect them to do everything for them. Cooking cleaning washing etc. Her expectation is that her "job" will be shopping.
Probably not the PDA but if you spend time around Chinese-Chinese couples then you may have seen the same expectations that the man treat the woman like a princess.

那些和上海女人约会过的男人很可能会遇到过那些期待男人为她们做一切事情的女人。例如做饭、打扫、洗衣服等等。她的期望是她的“工作”只是购购物就好了。这可能不是秀恩爱行为，但如果你花时间去了解中国情侣，你可能会见证到同样的期望，那就是男人对待女人就像对待公主一样。

Many Chinese women may appear submissive in public but they can be real ball-breakers in private don't let stereotypes cloud your thinking.

许多中国女性在公共场合可能会显得顺从，但她们在私下里却可能是母老虎，不要让成见蒙蔽了你的思维。

-------------译者：roroho-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]Wusuowhey 
Probably just your looking glass perspective. There's also the possibility that these couples have found what is suitable for them in each other. Or maybe theyve developed their own cute habits. Regardless its impossible for anybody who'snot them to know the important details.

可能只是你自己观察角度的问题。也有可能是这些夫妇找到了适合他们对方的角色相处模式。或者可能只是他们已经养成了他们独有的可爱习惯。不管怎样，水暖自知，没有任何人比自己更了解自己，外人要知道那些重要细节是不可能的。

I dislike touchy feeliness especially in public. I find the Europreans much more open in this regard. Anyway theres a lot that goes into a relationship. The couple as described seem to have mor of a Chinese style relationship if you ask me nothing to do with intercultural.

我不喜欢亲亲我我的感觉，尤其是在公共场合。在这方面，我发现欧洲人更加开放。不管怎样，一段感情当中是会有很多故事的。如果你问我，前面描述的这对夫妇看起来似乎更像中国式的感情关系，这与跨文化无关。

[–]oneLpUnited States 
Nobody seems particularly happy or in love

没有人看起来是特别的幸福或相爱的。

I think it's a mistake to judge the relationships of others from your own perspective of happiness. Everyone has different needs and desires and your definition of a fulfilling relationship doesn't work for everyone.

我认为用你自己对幸福的定义角度来判断别人的关系是错误的。每个人都有不同的需求和欲望，而且你对令人满意的感情关系的定义并不适用于所有人。

But it's also possible you are hanging out with shitty people.

但也有可能只是你和一些令人讨厌的人一起玩。

[–]Sasselhoff 
I've got a Chinese fiancee and we act just like any other western couple back home act. Can't really say I've noticed it being any different with the other FM/CF couples I've known.

我未婚妻是中国人，我们的相处模式就跟其他西方夫妇是一样的。我真的没有注意到我认识的其他外国男人 / 中国女人组成的夫妇有什么不同。

Maybe it's just access to a small sample size (though after five years one would think that you would have had enough contact by now)?

也许这只是一个小样本量的问题（尽管你会认为自己已经待在中国五年了，接触过的夫妇数量已经够多了）?

[–]worldcitizen 
If they're both happy whatever.

只要他们都高兴，随便他们啊。

Just because it isn't your idea (or mine just so you know) of a relationship doesn't mean it's not fulfilling.

不能仅仅因为这不是你对情感交往关系的看法（或是我的看法，就跟你说下），就意味着它是段令人不满意毫无意义的（感情关系）。

[–]marmakoide 
I should introduce you to my wife she's Chinese and she definitely does not take well being talked to like a child. She's the Chinese version of Linda in Bob's Burger with a Nanjing accent. Some of her friends are also married with Westerners and same pattern. Honestly I didn't see the docile wife cliche very much. Maybe it's a generational thing ? People I know are in their late twenties to early forties.

我应该把我的妻子介绍给你认识，她是中国人，她肯定不喜欢别人用对待孩子的方式跟她讲话。她就是《开心汉堡店》里带着南京口音的中国版琳达。她的一些朋友也嫁给了西方人，也出现过同样的角色相处模式。老实说，（他们当中）我并看到他们的老婆很顺从。也许这是与代俱存的关系？我认识的都是快到三十到四十出头的人。
（译者注：开心汉堡店，是指在Fox新动画剧《开心汉堡店》（Bob's Burgers）中，Bob Belcher在妻子和三个孩子的帮助下经营的家族餐馆（鲍勃汉堡店）。）

[–]WhiteZhengChengGongIsrael 
Yeah dude WMAF are the worst.

是的，伙计，西方男人和亚洲女人的夫妇组合是最糟糕的。

[–]MGTOWManofMystery 
Can't say I ever noticed any of that in several decades in Greater China.

我不能说自己在大中国待了几十年却从没注意到这点。

 -------------译者：风起云团-审核者：天河云------------

[–]xiefeilaga 
I'll share something from our relationship. My wife is very outgoing and doesn't fit the daintsy girly stereotype of Chinese girls at all. But when we first started visiting my friends and family in the states she suddenly adopted this cutesy deer-in-the-headlights persona around them. Part of it was being out of her element (and not speaking English well) the rest I don't know. It gave them a very different first impression of her. I think they're still trying to wrap their heads around the woman they're getting to know now.

我将分享一些关于我（和我妻子）如何相处的经验。跟传统印象中娇柔内向的中国女性不同，我的妻子十分的外向。但是在我们第一次回国探望我的父母及朋友时，突然间她在那些人身边时就变得像车灯前的的小鹿那样手足无措。（deer-in-the-headlights：车灯前的小鹿，指一种焦虑、害怕、紧张的心情）一部分原因是因为这些超出了她的预想范围（以及她的英语不怎么样），但其他的原因我就不知道了。这使得我的父母及朋友对她的第一印象（和实际）有所不同。我觉得他们现在仍然很头疼要怎样跟这个女人相处。

[–]Playapan 
It's not cross cultural. It's that the white male wanna show 'dominance' and expect Chinese female to be 'submissive.'

这跟所谓的跨文化无关。这其实就是白人男性想要展现“支配权”并且希望中国女性“服从”。

[–]rogerwilco42
China is the last place I would go if I were seeking a submissive woman.

如果我要寻找（对我）服服帖帖的女人的话，中国肯定是最后一个选择。

[–]JustInChina88
This post is hilarious. Loving people assuming things about other relationships when they can't even attempt to consider different cultures means different relationship dynamics.

这个帖子真是搞笑。就算是相爱的两人，如果他们不能考虑到甚至尝试去解决不同文化之间所带来的相处难题，那这份关系就会变味。

[–]rongamutt 
Well yeah this is what happens when the loser back home finds a woman desperate enough for him.

没错，这就像一个屌丝回家后发现女人已经对他失望透顶（而他自己却不知道这是为什么）。

[–]fleetwoodd 
What you’re seeing isn’t a product of “cross culture” but simply a guy finding a downtrodden woman with a lack of confidence because he’s domineering and perhaps a bit of a cunt. I’ve seen plenty of white couples like this.

你所说的并不是所谓“跨文化”的产物，这只是单纯的一个男人因为自己盛气凌人且有点喜欢侮辱支配别人就去欺负一个可怜的傻女人的故事。我见过很多白人夫妻都是这样的。

[–]rogerwilco42
Maybe you spend too much time around dumbass teens or college students.
I have not noticed that among most adults.

也许你花太多时间跟一些傻逼青年或者大学生相处了。我注意到很多大人之间的感情相处就不是那样的。