【 Quora 】:为什么土耳其认为库尔德人不配独立？ [美国媒体]

Why does Turkey believe that Kurds do not deserve to have their own independent country?

【 Quora 】:为什么土耳其认为库尔德人不配独立？





Iraq was created by foreign “intervention” in the last century.
In that same century of their “creation”, they were supplied with weapons to fight their neighbor state Iran(which was also targeted by a coup admittedly initiated by CIA in 53) in a reckless war of attrition by those same foreign “interventions” while arms were being supplied to their enemy(Iran) as well.
All before being throughly wrecked by those same “interventions” in the beginning of this century. That turned the nation into a breeding ground of uneducated suicide bombers that seek heaven by blowing themselves up to smithereens. Not to mention being crypticaly supported by western backdoors as revealed by recent Wikileaks revelations.

伊拉克是上个世纪由外国“干预”创造的。
在他们“创造”的这个世纪里，他们被供应武器，以打击邻国伊朗（这也是中央情报局53号发动的一次政变的目标），在消耗战中武器也同样被提供给他们的敌人（一样被外国干预的伊朗）。
在本世纪初，所有这些“干预”都被彻底破坏了。这使得这个国家变成了没有教养的自杀式袭击的滋生地，他们通过自嘲的方式寻求天堂。更不用提最近维基百科隐晦揭露的西方支持的神秘机构。

Talking about so called lies while we have the admitted atrocities(lies) of “incubator babies” and “weapons of mass destruction” is hypocrisy to a tee.
The same pattern of geopolitical conduct is to expected for the future. And it is nothing but self preservation logic that the majority of Turkish populous approaches these prospects with sceptism.
I have to be blunt. Sorry but no sorry. The so called minorities that are approached by those moral concerns of western “good will” are nothing but cannon fodder to be sacrificed. Just as the Armenians as mentioned in the comments in one of the answers here. Spewing from nothing but colonial ambitions.

谈到所谓的谎言，必须承认“孵化宝宝”和“大规模杀伤性武器”的暴行（谎言）是虚假的。
他们对未来的地缘政治行为预言也是假的。而绝大多数土耳其人都是用自己的保守逻辑来守护团结的。
我必须强硬。对不起，对不起。西方“善意”的道德关怀的少数民族，只不过是政治炮灰的牺牲品罢了。正如亚美尼亚人在评论中提到的其中一个答案一样。除了殖民者的雄心壮志外，一无所有。

--------

The West has done a tremendous job of making the world believe the Kurds are a nice group of people in the Middle East who deserve their own independence. You could see countless news articles and documentaries promulgating Kurdish struggle, but the real reason for all that is the US and regional powers have used and continue to use them as pawns to push their own nationalist and ideological agenda.

西方已经做了让世界相信库尔德人是个好人，他们值得在中东人民中拥有一片土地的巨大工作。你可以看到无数的新闻文章和纪录片来公布库尔德人的斗争，但是这只是因为美国和地区大国以此来推动民族主义和意识形态议程的典当品罢了。

Do they deserve their own independence? By the same token of logic, everybody deserves to carve out any piece of land to create their own country. Looking at the US, native Americans must be given their own independence. Several states in the South must be given to Mexicans. Republic of New Afrika must be established. Outside of the US, any white settlement must be eradicated and indigenous people must rule their own land. What about Tamil people, Sindhi, Yoruba people, Sikhs, Uyghurs, Catalans, Circassians, Tatars, Tibetians, and dozens of other ethnic groups? While some have gained autonomy, others don’t have that either. I have answered a similar question on autonomy here.
As the Turks believe, what is taken with blood must be given with blood.

他们应该得到自己的独立吗？ 出于同样的道理，每个地区都应该划出一块土地来创造自己的国家。 在美国看来，土着美国人必须得到自己的独立。 南方的几个州必须交给墨西哥人。 新南非共和国必须建立。 在美国之外，任何白人定居点都必须根除，土着人民必须统治自己的土地。 那么泰米尔人，信德人，约鲁巴人，锡克教徒，维吾尔人，加泰罗尼亚人，切尔克斯人，鞑靼人，藏族人以及其他几十个民族呢？ 一些人获得了自主权，而另一些人则没有这种自主权。 我在这里曾经回答过一个有关自治的类似问题。
我们土耳其人所相信的，必须用血才能得到。

-------

Actually they already have their own sovereignty; Iraqi Kurdistan
Then you might ask, why do they keep killing your doctors and teachers besides innocent people for so called independence?
Because, (%70) they want bigger piece of cake, (%30) they like playing the victim.

其实他们已经有了自己的主权， 伊拉克库尔德斯坦
那么你可能会问，为什么他们为了所谓的独立，除了无辜的人之外还要杀死你的医生和老师呢？
因为，（70％）他们想要更大的一块蛋糕，（30％）他们喜欢扮演受害者。

Which one would you choose? Living in Turkey which has cities like İstanbul, İzmir and Ankara or middle of the war?I know how Western media manipulates people in US&Europe, but we are witnessing the cruelty of PKK and its’ supporters everyday. This terrorist group is after more lands and oil, they don’t aim to found a nationalist lovely country in a honourable way.

你会选哪一个？ 生活在土耳其有伊斯坦布尔，伊兹密尔和安卡拉等城市或战争的中间地带？我知道西方媒体如何操纵美国和欧洲的人，但是我们正在目睹库尔德工人党及其“支持者每天的残酷遭遇”。 这个恐怖组织拥有越来越多的土地和石油，他们不打算正常地建立一个民族主义的可爱的国家。

----------

It will only help the Divide & Conquer strategy of the WEstern powers who already divided mid east to 100 pieces to allow the enslavement of the mid eastern nations easily. All the mideastern countries are ruled by dictators since the division happened and all of the nations have been suffering since the Ottoman Collapse. The difference is so big, you can say its not less than going from 1st world country life standard to 3rd world country life standardWe have been living together in peace and were the most developed country in the world by all means until 18th century. Even in 19th century we were a lot better than most other countries.

它只会帮助西方大国分割中东100块的的分而治之战略，将中东国家的奴役。自分裂发生以来，所有中东国家都被独裁者统治，自奥斯曼帝国崩溃以来，所有的国家都遭受了痛苦。差距如此之大，可以说不亚于从第一世界的国家生活水平走向第三世界的国家生活水平。我们一直和平共处，一直到18世纪，一直是世界上最发达的国家。即使在19世纪，我们比其他大多数国家都好很多。

So the real question is why sould we be divided more ?Smart Kurds dont want that because:Kurdish region of Turkey and Iraq joined Ottomans by their own wish to be safe from the Iranian threat in early 1500s because Kurds are sunni as Turks are and Iranian Islam (Shia) is considered misguided form of Islam by most of sunnis.Kurds and Turks have been major allies in the region since 11th century against Crusaders and other Anti-Sunni forces .

所以真正的问题是为什么我们要分得更多？智能库尔德人不要这样做，因为：土耳其和伊拉克的库尔德人地区，由于希望在十六世纪早期免于伊朗的威胁而加入了土耳其人，因为库尔德人是逊尼派人，而伊朗伊斯兰教（什叶派）被大多数的逊尼派人认为是伊斯兰教的错误形式。自十一世纪以来，库尔德人和土耳其人一直是该地区的主要盟友，致力于反对十字军和其他反逊尼派武装。

Historically Kurds were treated always as first class citizens and they were always active in the politics and high rank government positions. Turgut Ozal who openly said he is Kurdish was elected as PM and President 1983–1993 as a recent example. First PM in the history of Turkey who have been to pilgrimage and millions were in his funeral. He was the most loved politician in the last 200 years.Historically there is no Kurdish state , they are good allies but never had an independent state, who really wants the independent Kurdish state, the Kurds or the British ? What they want is to be sure that a strong opponent in Mideast will never come again. That’s the entire love for independent Kurdish state.

历史上，库尔德人一直被视为一流的公民，他们一直活跃于政治上高级别的政府职位。公开表示他是库尔德人的图尔古特·奥扎尔当选为总统和就任总统在1983-1993作为最近的一个例子。土耳其历史上第一个去过朝圣和数以百万计的人在他的葬礼上。他是过去200年来最受欢迎的政治家。历史上没有库尔德国家，他们是好的盟友，但从来没有一个独立的国家，谁真的要独立的库尔德国家，是库尔德人还是英国人？他们要的是确保中东不会产生下一个强大对手。这才是他们对独立库尔德国家的全爱情的全部原因。

There is a lot of improvement needed in the Eastern part of Turkey, government did most of the investment to the Western Turkey and there is big poverty in the East, Turkish government needs to work on this as top priority but they dont really care about human life (the current government), so Some Kurds may be pissed of the current Turkish governments treatment maybe also of the many other previous governments, but as Turks and Kurds we should not allow more divisions.If you dont know your past you cannot expect a good future.So why divide when we can unite

土耳其东部地区需要很多改善，政府投入西部土耳其的大部分资金，东部地区还有很大的贫困，土耳其政府需要将这个工作作为重中之重，但他们并不真正关心人类生活（现任政府），所以有些库尔德人可能会不息当前土耳其政府对其的待遇，也许也是许多其他以前的政府，但作为土耳其人和库尔德人，我们不应该允许更多的分裂。如果你不知道你的过去，你不能指望一个美好的未来。那么为什么分裂，我们可以团结起来！

----------

For decades the West accused Turkey for honor killings , gender inequality etc which were/are basically Kurdish acts .Now all of a sudden the same Western countries are trying to convince the world that Kurds are progressive and nice people of the Middle East . Sorry we are not buying it .You can only fool people who have no knowledge or contact with the region .

几十年来，西方指责以土耳其的名誉的杀人，性别不平等等，这基本上是库尔德人的行为。现在突然之间，西方国家正试图说服世界，库尔德人是中东的进步人士和好人。对不起，我们不买账。你只能欺骗那些不了解或不接触该地区的人。

Kurds are the pioneers of ISIS . They were the first ever group to revolt against secular doctrine of Turkey during its early days after dissolution of Ottomans . They revolted to restore Caliphate and sharia law . (Sheik Said Rebellion)Majority of them make living out of drug trade , smuggling , spoils of war and would probably starve to death if there was stability in the Middle East .On the other hand there are hundred thousands of Kurds who are loyal to Turkey , serving in army , studying in universities , paying their taxes and living a decent normal life . These people are inseparable , integral part of our society and we are happy to live together with them .

库尔德人是ISIS的先驱。他们是有史以来第一个反抗土耳其世俗教义的组织，在奥斯曼土耳其解体后的早期。他们起义恢复哈里发和伊斯兰教法。 （Sheik Said叛乱）他们大多数是靠毒品生产，走私战利品，如果中东有稳定的话可能会饿死。另一方面，有数十万忠于土耳其的库尔德人，在军队服役，在大学里学习，缴纳税款，过着体面的正常生活。这些人是我们社会不可分割的组成部分，我们很乐意与他们共同生活。