为什么中国很多企业员工雇用过多？ [美国媒体]

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FacetiousAppleUnited Kingdom 于 18小时前 发表
Ok maybe I'm just the only one who's noticed this but there have been plenty of times where I've gone into a business and there seems to be too many employees working there. For example I've been to several restaurants that seemed pretty quiet but they still had several waiting staff there just standing around with nothing to do. Similarly whenever I go to the gym there seems to be about a dozen personal trainers standing around without much to do. Is there some law that means businesses have to hire a certain number of employees? Is this how the government keeps the unemployment rate so low? Or am I the only one who's noticed this?

好吧，也许只有我一个人注意到了这点，但每次我进一个做生意的地方，很多次我都发现那里的员工人数似乎有点太多。例如，我去过几家看起来挺冷清的餐馆，但那里还是有好几位服务员，个个就无所事事地站在那里。同样地，每当我去健身房的时候，都发现有一打私人教练就闲站在那里没啥事可做。难道有法律规定一家公司必须得雇用一定数量的员工？这难道就是他们政府保持失业率如此低的原因？还是就我一个人注意到了这事？
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–]marmakoide 18 指标 17小时前 
Low labor cost for low skill jobs are a factor. There's still a large supply of cheap worker from the poorer part of the country.

工作技能低，劳动力成本就低是一个因素。这个国家的大量廉价劳动力大多出自其较贫困地区的（人民）。

[–]JillyPollaTaiwan 3 指标 12小时前 
This is the same reason why some cities don't have meters instead of parking attendants. It's far cheaper to just hire bunch of uncles to take money ALL day than build the meters and hire the engineer require to maintain the meters and maids to take cash.

这也是为什么有些城市不用提车收费表而雇用停车管理员的原因。雇一帮叔叔整天帮忙收费比建造收费表并雇佣需要时维修仪表的工程师以及拿现金的女佣们要便宜得多了。

[–]Bonzwazzle 8 指标 17小时前 
i always wondered this and thought that this was the reason so many businesses seem to come and go. a restaurant may open up and in the slow hours they'll still have random staff just standing around doing nothing. then when shit needs to be done i still see staff just fucking around on their phones. i don't know if i could handle having a business in china i'd want to fire everyone

我一直在想这件事，我想这就是为什么很多企业都“昙花一现”的原因。一家开门营业的餐馆在清闲的时间里，还是会有些员工就闲站着无所事事。然而，当需要他们干活的时候，我丫的还是会看到有些员工仍在玩手机。我不知道我在中国开得下去一家公司吗，我一定会想解雇所有人。

[–]BillyBattsShinebox 13 指标 15小时前 
“a restaurant may open up and in the slow hours they'll still have random staff just standing around doing nothin”
And they'll still give you a look like you just pissed on their firstborn's face when you ask them for a menu

“一家开门营业的餐馆在清闲的时间里，还是会有些员工就闲站着无所事事。”
然而当你向他们要菜单的时候，他们会给你一你惹怒了他们的愤恨表情。

[–]FacetiousAppleUnited Kingdom[S] 5 指标 14小时前 
So true in my gym I saw one of the personal trainers giving a massage with one hand whilst on her phone with the other...chabuduo at its finest

没错，在我去的健身房里，我就看到过一个私人教练用一只手做按摩，同时用另一只手（拿手机）和别人打电话…简直是把“差不多”用到极致了。

[–]HotNaturedUnited States 3 指标 15小时前 
Lol yeah I've talked to people in the restaurant industry here who told me that it's really really hard to find good people for the waitstaff and kitchen. For one thing it's easier for them to come and go - - there are always new ventures and the F&B culture is so big here that word-of-mouth won't for example prevent an incompetent sous chef from moving on easily. It's also a matter of education /discipline as local kitchens have considerably less stringent routines and requirements.

哈哈，是的，我跟这里的餐饮业的人谈过，他们告诉我是真的，真的很难找到好的服务员和厨房里的人。一方面，他们更容易来去——总有新的冒险，而且这里的餐饮服务文化太大了以至于口头承诺不会，例如，阻止一个不称职的副厨轻易跳槽。这也是一个教育/纪律问题，因为当地的厨房有相对较少的严格程序和要求。

[–]FileError214 6 指标 14小时前 
My buddy had a restaurant and he’d always tell me what a pain in the ass it was finding competent staff. Waitresses had to speak basic English but apparently finding a cook willing to just follow recipes was almost impossible.

我的朋友开了家餐馆，他总是跟我说要找个称职的员工是多么痛苦。女服务员必须会说基本的英语，但是很显然，找到一个愿意遵循菜谱做菜的厨师几乎是不可能的。

[–]YouShouldBeWriting 1 指标 3小时前 
“that it's really really hard to find good people for the waitstaff and kitchen.”
Because they pay them 1500/2000 rmb a month. Noone is giving a fuck.

“是真的，真的很难找到好的服务员和厨房里的人。”
因为他们每月只付人1500/2000元的薪水。没人会想去做这么低薪水的工作。

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[–]mrfrosty2016Great Britain 15 指标 17小时前* 
Most laowai have noticed this early on. The main reasons for overstaffing IMO are due to a combination of:

大部分老外早就注意到了。过度雇佣的主要原因在我看来是以下这些方面：

1. Low productivity rate (inefficient)
2. Low work quality (chabuduo culture)
3. Low labour cost so they're replaceable (quantity vs quality mindset); massive staff presence however does allow them to operate as low-cost security deterrents in retail contexts (e.g. supermarkets).
4. Low quality training: staff do not cross-train so they cannot be moved to fulfill other roles easily.
Ergo in most situations they adopt an "army of noobs" mindset instead of combined arms doctrine that includes special forces which would otherwise emphasise fewer staff but higher quality. The above reasons also encompass white collar jobs not just blue collar ones. Additionally Chinese culture also scores higher on the power-distance index so organisationally they're predisposed to having an extremely wide hierarchical base.

1.低生产率（低效）；
2.低工作质量（差不多文化）；
3.劳动力成本低廉，因此他们是可替换的（数量vs质量导向）；然而，大量员工的存在允许他们在零售环境中以低成本的安全设备（监控）下经营（比如超市）。
4.低质量的培训：员工不交叉培训，因此他们不能轻易地被挪去履行其他工作任务。因此，在大多数情况下，他们采用一种“军队菜鸟”的心态代替包括了特种部队的混合军队原则，而这原则强调员工更少，但质量更高。上述原因也涵括了白领工作，而不仅仅是蓝领工作。此外，中国文化在权力差距指数上也更高，因此从组织上来说，他们更倾向于具有极宽的分层基础。

[–]Hairofthe 9 指标 15小时前 
Walmart is the worst a hundred workers standing around doing nothing but only 2 who can use the till

沃尔玛才是最糟糕的，一百个工人站在那里无所事事，只有2个人可以使用钱柜（收银台）。

[–]kanada_kid 3 指标 10小时前 
“but only 2 who can use the till”
I think all Wal-Marts world wide have this problem.

“只有2个人可以使用钱柜（收银台）。”
我想全世界的所有沃尔玛都有这个问题。

[–]FacetiousAppleUnited Kingdom[S] 3 指标 15小时前 
Pretty astute comments; I guess there's also the fact that because there are so many migrant workers a lot of businesses don't see the point in investing heavily in their staff when they might move on in a few months so instead they choose to hire an army of low-wage drones

相当精明的评论；我想也存在这样一个事实：因为有太多外来务工人员，很多企业看不到在其员工可能会在几个月内跳槽（因此为留住人力资源）而投入大量资金的必要性，所以他们宁愿选择雇佣一支低工资的雄峰军队。

[–]TheMediumPanda 5 指标 13小时前 
I feel that's a huge problem in China. It seems like half the employees are constantly looking for a new/better job and often they'll try to take know-how client lists or any inside information to the competitor who's luring them.

我感觉在中国这是个大问题。看起来有一半的员工都在不断地寻找新的/更好的工作，而且他们经常试图把技术诀窍、客户名单或任何内部信息泄露给引诱他们（跳槽）的竞争对手公司。

Low wage workers are a dime a dozen so bosses don't care about training them or encouraging them to stay and make an effort and educated and experienced employees seem to be distrusted by the higher-ups for up to several years: they might take your job they might steal clients and know-how they might set up a competing business. I remember my first years here how our boss didn't care one bit about the Chinese workers/teachers/TAs at the school so every year 50% of them quit or got fired (15 Chinese when I started only 3 of them still there in my third year). I thought it was terrible management but I've gained somewhat of an understanding of the reasoning behind since then.

低薪工人一毛钱能买一打，所以老板们不在意培训他们，或者鼓励他们留下来奋斗；而受过教育和经验丰富的员工们似乎要花个好几年才能赢得上级的信任：他们可能会抢走你（上级）的职位、他们可能会窃走客户和技术、他们可能会自立门户也开个公司（与你竞争资源）。我还记得我在这里的头几年，我们的老板对学校里的中国工人/老师/助教那是一点也不关心的，所以每年有50%的人要么辞职要么被解雇（我刚去时还有15个中国人，第三年时就只剩3个还留在那）。我认为这管理（模式）真是糟透了，但从那时起，我有些理解这背后的原因了。

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[–]mrfrosty2016Great Britain 4 指标 12小时前 
It seems like half the employees are constantly looking for a new/better job and often they'll try to take know-how client lists or any inside information to the competitor who's luring them.
This is sharp and on point for white collar jobs. The China context is that it's a low trust culture so staff are trained to do their job up to a baseline. Any training is viewed as a sunk cost and not an investment.

“看起来有一半的员工都在不断地寻找新的/更好的工作，而且他们经常试图把技术诀窍、客户名单或任何内部信息泄露给引诱他们（跳槽）的竞争对手公司。”
这是对白领工作一针见血的见地。中国环境就是一种低信任文化，因此，员工接受使他们的工作达到基线水平的培训，然而任何培训都被视为沉没成本而非投资。  

[–]mashupXXL 2 指标 11小时前 
Same problem to a lesser extent in America for 30 years.

这问题在美国也存在了30年，只是程度较小。

[–]nouncommittee 2 指标 9小时前 
Yeah most times I see an American business on TV it really stands out how relatively overstaffed they are or that they have people doing jobs that would be done by a machine elsewhere.

是的，大多数时候我在电视上看到美国的商业，真的突显出他们的员工人数过剩或者是他们总是雇人去做那些机器就能做得了的工作。

[–]shipiaozi 8 指标 15小时前 
Top businesses usually hires less people than necessary most top IT company in China"hire two engineers to do jobs of five people and pay them extra 50%" that 996(12hours*6days per week) become a norm.

顶级企业通常雇佣的员工比其需要的人数要少，中国最顶尖的IT公司“雇佣两个工程师做五人的工作量，然后额外支付他们50%的薪水”因此“996工作时间制”（每周工作6天，每天工作12小时）已成为一种常态。

Government or public institution seldom fire people so there might be far more employees than necessary. Even some people don't do anything no one would fire them. Your gym might be a public institution owned by physical association.

政府或事业单位很少解雇人，所以雇员人数可能比必要的人数多得多。有些人即使不做任何事，他们也不会被解雇。你的健身房可能是体育协会所有的公共机构。

Labor is still cheap in China so service sector tend to hire more people to provide better service. In weekends or holidays it would be really busy.

在中国，劳动力仍然是廉价的，因此服务业倾向于雇佣更多的人来提供更好的服务。在周末或假日，服务业会非常繁忙。

Businesses need to hire certain percentage disabled workers or pay extra taxes.
The official unemployment rate is fully rigged because it remains 4% every month for more than ten years what a joke.

企业们需要雇用一定比例的残疾工人或缴纳额外税款。官方的失业率完全是被操纵的，因为十多年来失业率每月都保持在4%，真是搞笑。
（译注：996是指工作日早9点上班，晚上9点下班，中午和晚上休息1小时（或不到），总计10小时以上，并且一周工作6天的工作制度，一般与IT相关的企业会采用这种工作制，最初来自阿里巴巴）

[–]TheMediumPanda 6 指标 13小时前 
Your No. 3 hit a note here. The employees at our small school basically only have to be there Friday evenings Saturdays and Sundays. There's literally nothing to do in the weekdays. Being a silly laowai I figured we should just give them Mon-Thu off: They'll be happy and we get employees fit fresh and ready for the weekend. Win-win right? Oh no. My wife quickly pointed out that anyone with Monday to Friday off immediately would go out and find a second full-time job and we'd get no benefits at all. Had I been a China noob I might have held my ground but she had a point so now we have 3 employees coming to the school from 12 to 6 PM Tuesday to Friday with absolutely nothing to do.

你第3点说到点上了。我们学校规模小，员工基本上只用星期五晚上和周末两天必须在那里。工作日里几乎没有什么事要做。作为一个愚蠢的老外，我想应该让他们周一至周四休假：他们会很开心，而让员工休息好消除疲惫充满干劲，能更好应对繁忙的周末。双赢，不是吗？哦，不。我妻子很快指出，任何一个星期一到星期五都休假的人绝对会去找第二份全职工作，我们根本就没有什么好处。我是个中国菜鸟，我本可能会坚持我的立场，但她持这么个观点，所以我们现在有3名员工，星期二到星期五他们每天都来学校从12点呆到晚上6点，完全无所事事。 

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[–]mashupXXL 1 指标 11小时前 
Have them do sales and marketing

让他们做销售和市场营销。

[–]mrfrosty2016Great Britain 5 指标 10小时前 
This is logical in the West in terms of cross-training but here it also represents additional cost (in time and money) in terms of training supervision and the potential that you're equipping them to jump ship while potentially gaining very little in return re: any anticipated/potential sales and marketing results with possible increased salary request (expanded remit).

在西方交叉培训是合乎逻辑的，但是，在这里，它也意味着你在培训和监管上会有笔额外花销（时间和金钱上），还会造成种可能，那就是你提升了员工的技能然而他们跳槽去了别的公司，你的投资基本上没啥回报：任何受期待/有潜力的销售和市场营销（人才）最后可能都会要求加薪（扩大其职权范围）。

The status quo on the other hand is spend nothing more for a neutral result while depriving any benefit to potential competitors (should they choose to moonlight).

另一方面，现状就是为中立的结果什么也不花，剥夺潜在竞争者的任何利益（他们应该选择兼职）。

Contextually if you rationalise it from a game theory perspective paying them to sit around in a low level job for a few days a week is the correct move. This is scaled up nationally at the macro level via the culture.

根据上下文，如果你从博弈论的视角把它合理化，付低薪水给他们让他们一周几天就做些低技巧的工作是正确的一步棋。这是通过文化在宏观层面上全国性比例增大的。

[–]mashupXXL 2 指标 9小时前 
It makes sense when explained that way. Indeed.

这样解释是有道理的。的确是这样。

[–]ericthered1 4 指标 15小时前 
the work covenant: we pretend to work you pretend to pay us

工作契约是：我们假装工作，你假装付钱给我们。

[–]LeftWingLock52 5 指标 15小时前 
From what I’ve seen it’s also true for foreign companies with Chinese managers. It’s a combination of needing more poorly trained/motivated employees to do the job inefficiently poor management and it being a status thing (“hey I have x number of employees”).

从我所看到的情况来看，对于有中国经理人的外国公司也是如此。这是需要更多低培训水平/积极性低、工作效率低的员工和管理不善等因素导致的结果，且这已经是一种身份的象征（“嘿，我有xxx名员工”）。

[–]TheMediumPanda 4 指标 13小时前 
Fuck that face-thing. My wife pesters me constantly about getting another receptionist a second cleaning lady more TAs but they would have absolutely nothing to do. Great let's up our monthly wage payouts by 30% and gain nothing in return.

去他的面子。我妻子不断纠缠我要我换个前台，再招个清洁女工和更多的助教，但她们绝对会没事可做。太好了，让我们把他们的工资提高个30%，然后什么回报也得不到。

[–]irresistiblebadidea 3 指标 14小时前 
In addition to the reasons already stated in this thread I suspect there is a complex web of government subsidies and incentives for businesses to hire more people to keep the national employment rate up.

除了帖子中已经提到的原因外，我怀疑有一个复杂的政府补贴和政策以鼓励企业雇佣更多人以保持全国就业率上升。

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[–]tchrbrianUnited States 5 指标 13小时前 
stateside example : Apple store

美国有关例子：苹果零售店。

[–]CannalyzerMacau 3 指标 17小时前 
Labour is cheap.

劳动力是廉价的。

[–]callme_xipapa 4 指标 17小时前 
never heard that there's any law force the business to hire a certain number of employees

从来没有听说过有法律强制企业雇佣一定数量的员工。

[–]coffeepagan 2 指标 17小时前 
There’s security grandpa staff manager and someone who can speak english. Then there’s the clerk who does the actual work. But she needs to call Mr. Authority to approve and stamp the copy of your passport. Did I just count five? OK who did I miss?

要雇个保安爷爷、人事经理和一个会说英语的员工。然后还得雇个做实际工作的职员。但是她需要打电话给权威先生来批准并盖戳你护照的复印件。我刚才只数到五个人吗？好吧，我还漏数了谁？

[–]hapigood 2 指标 14小时前 
Quality of management: Organisational memory and learning.
Serious point.

管理质量：组织记忆与学习。
很严肃在说。

Your manager learnt from an experienced manager who embodied / challenged / inspired their experience and their learning from their managers who as times changed embodied their learnings from the past generations of past managers. This is from childhood from working environments.
Go back two generations and you're not looking at a lot of retained wisdom being passed down. A lot is self-taught; a lot of self-help gurus make a lot of money from their books.

你的管理者是向呈现/挑战/激发他的经验丰富的管理者学习，而那个经验丰富的管理者则是从过去几代经验丰富的管理者那儿学习的，而随着时代的推移长江后浪推前浪。（那些经验）要么来自于你的童年，要么是你通过工作环境积累沉淀下的。追溯到两代以前，你不会看到有许多智慧被保留流传下来。很多人是自学成才的；而很多自学成才的大师靠他们的自传书赚了很多钱。

[–]annadpk 2 指标 8小时前 
It is not just a problem in China but throughout developing Asia.

这不是中国才有的问题，这是发展中亚洲的通病。

If you think overstaffing is bad in the private sector in China you can just imagine what it looks like in the public sector
Fifteen years ago it was worse than it is now. I remember some government buildings in China with only 5-6 stories used to have elevator ladies.

如果你认为在中国私营部门过度雇佣不好，那你可以想象下公共部门的情况。十五年前，情况比现在更糟。我记得中国的一些政府大楼，只有5-6层高的大楼才会雇电梯小姐。

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[–]Longlius 1 指标 12小时前 
The capital model of China encourages it. In general it's fairly easy to get a loan if you can guarantee employment.

中国的资本模式鼓励这么做。一般来说，如果你能保证就业率，你的企业就很容易获得贷款。

[–]bigbosslaowaiBest Korea 1 指标 3小时前 
That's the bureaucratic government creating jobs. Other times it is the cheap labour.

那是官僚政府在创造就业机会。其他时候是因为廉价劳动力。

[–]HautamakiCanada 1 指标 1小时前* 
One factor yet to be mentioned is that if you are an owner or hiring manager or otherwise in charge of staffing for a business (one of) your main side hustle(s) is taking bribes to hire people. Nearly every position with any power at all has a side hustle for extra cash that's the real reason you want that position and this is what it is for a hiring manager or whatever. Of course if you go too too crazy you'll get replaced effectively killing your goose that lays golden eggs but there's no point to being a hiring manager unless you hire a few duds or whatever for some bribes so that also factors into the overstaffing situation.

还没被提及但很必要的一个因素是，如果你是老板、招聘主管或其他负责招聘企业员工的人员，你的（一个）主要副业是收受贿赂雇佣人员。几乎每一个有权力的职位都有一个能额外收受金钱的副业，这就是你想要那个职位的真正原因，这也是招聘主管或其他招聘人士的（工作和存在意义）。当然，如果你行为太过疯狂，你会被取代，然后那个会帮你下金蛋的鹅就被杀掉了（意思是收受不到贿赂了），但如果你雇了很多庸才或人只要给你贿赂（你就把人招进来），这样招聘主管就没什么意义了。而这也是出现冗员情况的因素。

[–]emustif 1 指标 1小时前 
I think most of the suggestions in this thread are valid but the structure of employing someone in China differs somewhat. As far as I know most restaurants and different establishments in China hire and pay their employees by monthly bases they are not hourly employees. The restaurant might need many workers for the rush hours but still needs to employ them even if there is downtime and as you may know you need to show up to get paid even though there are fewer things to do at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. And The only people I know that work multiple jobs are cleaners that work in different office spaces and even for them thier payment is not calculated by the hour but on the daily basis.

我认为帖子中的大部分建议都有理有据。但在中国雇人的结构有所不同。据我所知，在中国大多数餐馆和公司聘用的月付员工，他们不雇钟点工。餐馆在高峰时间可能会需要许多员工，所以即使在清闲时间，仍然需要雇佣他们，可能正如你知道的那样，即使下午二点没啥事可做，你也需要露面才能得到报酬。我知道的唯一会身兼数职的一类人是清洁工，他们的办公地点不固定，然而即使是他们，他们的薪水也不是按小时计算的，而是按天数计算的。