你觉得中国的J31比F35更好吗？ [美国媒体]

Do you think China's J-31 jet fighter is better than F35?

你觉得中国的J31比F35更好吗？



Danial Shazly, Ex-Editor,Asian Defence & Diplomacy & 30 yrs of Jet Knowhow
Answered Dec 23
The Chinese are doing a great job at introducing to the world, the J-31. Its a great start for the Chinese aviation industry and the confidence it has built for the Military, especially for the PLAAF. The J-31 is still in its infancy. It is nowhere close to being on the same level as the US F-35. However, that doesn't mean it will be inferior to the F-35. The J-31 will over time, be upgraded and improve as do all jet fighters around the world. In time, China would go towards bringing the J-31 up to the level of F-35. We could see this within the next 10 years or with much surprise earlier.
Some of the new technologies comes from Chinese research on global technologies and Russian technologies. A glance of the Su-27 and Su-30MKK would have given the engineers some new ideas and improvements that works towards improving the J-31. In my view, the J-31 is superb jet fighter. It looks sophisticated and well built. Could it be an export success? I think so.

中国人为了将J31推介给世界做了很多工作。这对于中国航空工业和建立起军队的信心特别是对于PLA空军来说是一个好的开端。J31仍然处于起步阶段，与F35完全不在一个水平上。然而，这并不是说它会比F35差。就像世界上的所有喷气战机一样，J31随着时间推移也会升级改进的。迟早中国会将J31升级成F35的水平。我们十年之内就会看到的，或者更早地给我们带来惊喜。
一些新的技术来自于中国人对于世界和俄罗斯技术的研究。看一眼苏27和苏30MKK就会给工程师带来新的想法和改进用来提高J31。在我看来，J31是一款出色的喷气战机。它看起来精致、做工精良。它会是出口上的一项成功吗？我认为会的。

The J-31 uses the same engine as the MIG-29. Based on the size of the aircraft i would expect the jet to have a lower fuel fraction to feed to 2-thirsty engines. We could expect to see new engines.

J31用的是米格29的同款发动机。根据它的尺寸，我认为这架战机要喂养两台饥渴的发动机的话，它的燃料比低了。我们可以期待看到新发动机的装备。

No one can underestimate the determination of Chinese aviation development. They have come a long way from the yesteryears of the Chengdu F-7 to the J-31. A leap i can say to a new level of skills. With China having new economics gains in the last 30 years, it is no wonder the defence industry has played a pivotal role in building modern jets. JF-17, J-10, copies of the Flankers and with some modifications, J-20 and so forth. Its truly amazing. US was like this before, building many jets in the 60s and 70s. China aim is to work towards having a parity with global first class jet fighters such as the F-35 and even the European models.

没有人可以低估中国航空发展的决心。从往昔的F7到今日的J31他们走过了长长的一段路。我可以说这是一种技术水平上的飞跃。有着中国近30年来取得的经济成就，丝毫不用怀疑国防工业在建造现代战机中扮演的关键角色。JF17、J10、作出一些改变的侧卫战机的复制品、J20等等。真的很棒。美国之前也是这样的，60年代和70年代建造了许多飞机。中国的目标是拥有匹敌像是F35甚至是欧洲型号战机的世界一流水平的战机。





If looked closely, the jet is well built and put together. Its to show real advances made by the Chinese Aerospace Industries. Good innovative design and using Russian jet engines as an alternative prior to introduction of modern Chinese ones is the current requirements. The J-31, like the J-20 could play an important role in guarding Chinese economic and national interest. Could we see a potential conflict in the South China Sea, the Korean conflict and taking back Taiwan? Probably. What we need to understand is this is a chess game for the Chinese. Once they have the tools to complete the task, the will use it. Now they are developing it. Not ready to use.

如果近看，这架飞机做工精细，组装得也很好。真实地展示了中国航空工业取得的进步。良好的创新设计，使用俄罗斯喷气发动机作为中国自己的新型发动机出来之前的替代选项也是当前的要求。J31就像J20那样在保卫中国经济和国家利益方面扮演了重要的角色。我们能看到南中国海、朝鲜半岛和收回台湾时的潜在冲突吗？也许吧。我们需要明白的是对于中国这是一场棋局。一旦他们有了能完成任务的工具，他们就会用它。他们现在正是在发展这种工具。还没准备好用。

Just like any fighter jet development, i would expect there will be many versions of the J-31 over the next 5–10 years such like any modern jets such as the F-16, F-15, MIG-29 and F-35. It is common. At the moment, In my opinion, the F-35 is ahead in its fighting qualities but it will in time reach the level where it will be on the same par with the F-35. Just don't believe that the F-35 holds true superiority forever. Like the west, the Chinese have a solid aviation industry comprising of hard working teams to create not just 1 stealth jet, but 2. I am expecting 2–3 more stealth jets to come out.

就像许多战机的发展，我料想未来5-10年会有许多J31的改型，就像F16,F15,MIG29和F35等现代战机一样。这是常识。目前在我看来，F35在战斗性能上领先于它，但是早晚它会达到F35等同的水平的。别觉得F35会永远
领先。向西方一样，中国人也有一套可靠的航空工业体系，包含有一直勤奋努力的团队，创造了不止一种而是两种隐形战机。我预计还会有更多的2到3型隐形战机问世。



The J-31 with new tail fins. We expect an export version to be available in about 5 years from now. It is possible China will improve the cost of the jet to be ideal for export to countries who are not in politically allied to the west

装备了新尾翼的J31.我们预计未来五年就将会有一个出口版本。对于中国来说把出口型的J31定一个理想的价格出口给西方盟友以外的国家是可能的。



The J-31 will play an important part in sea power projections. However the days of the aircraft carrier is gone. With modern submarines, it is a floating air power that carries a big risk. The J-31 will support the J-15 in carrier operations. It could ideal for China to project power for a blue water navy but fighting against a more powerful foe like the US requires a totally different approach. Under Trump the world will see the revamp of US military power and that includes military buildup in anticipation of future conflict
Furthermore I am expecting the J-31 to be exported as an alternative jet to countries around the world and i am pretty sure the Europeans and the US would be interested to find ways to understand the J-31 and its weaknesses. How China development their aviation from stealing secrets of other countries or espionage, that is they way to supersede their knowledge then be it as it may. The US and the Europeans have their own way and are also playing the same game.

J31会是海上力量投射的一个重要组成部分。然而航空母舰的时代已经过去了。它现在是一种配备了现代潜艇的冒着巨大风险的浮动空军力量。对于中国建设一支蓝水海军来说它是理想的，但是要对付像美国这样强大的敌人则需要一种完全不同的方式。在川普的领导下，世界将会见证美国新一轮的军事革新，其中也包括在未来潜在的冲突中的军事集结能力。
此外，我也期待J31可以出口给全世界的国家作为一个可选择项，我确信欧洲和美国会想要弄懂J31并找出它的弱点。中国通过偷窃其他国家的秘密或者是间谍活动来发展自己的航空工业，就算是这样这也是他们更新知识的方式。美国和欧洲也有自己的方式，也在玩同样的游戏。

Within 10 years we will see the J-10 and J-31 among the many air forces around the world. The J-31 will definitely lead the way in giving China an excellent export revenue/income thus furthering their economy.
The J-31, a great jet for a excellent start. Its below the capabilities of the F-35 but thats a good thing. The F-35 is the baseline for all manufacturers to target and exceed. One day we can see the J-31 achieve the same parity as that of the F-35.

10年以内我们就将看到J10和J31出现在世界各地的许多空军力量中。J31明显会给中国带来收入，促进他们的经济。
J31，作为开端是一款杰出的战机。它的性能比不上F35，但这是件好事。F35是所有战机制造商瞄准和超越的底线。有一天我们会看到J31赶上F35的水平的。

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Roland Mutero, works at Paramount Pictures
Answered Oct 26, 2016
There is no way the J 31 is as good as the F 35, a fighter jet it copied unashamedly.
They copied the shape but and that is just that.
1. Stealth aircraft are built to very tight tolerances (limit or limits of variation in: a physical dimension) —one ten-thousandth of an inch was the standard for the F-22 and the F-35 has tighter requirements still. The Chinese have never demonstrated the ability to build to those kinds of tolerances.

J31想比得上它厚颜无耻抄袭的F35完全没门。
他们抄了外形，但也就止于此了。
1.隐形战机的建造误差很严格（物理尺寸上的限制以及误差的限制）——一英寸的千分之一是F22的标准，而F35的要求更高。中国人从未向人展示过有这种工艺水平。

2. The Chinese have never been able to produce a reliable jet engine to date—so it will take some time before China catches up to U.S. fifth-generation machines. I wouldn’t bank on their engine either (WS-13).
3. The biggest problem is J-31 is likely to fall short on avionics—the aircraft’s radar, infrared search and track, data-links and especially sensor fusion. It’s comparatively simple perfecting individual pieces of hardware, but fusing all of the data from a multitude of sensors and off-board platforms is extremely difficult. Even the F-22 didn’t fuse Link-16 data with the rest of its onboard sensors until its Increment 3.2A software upgrade. It’s one of the reasons Lockheed fell behind on developing the F-35—and why Air Force and Joint Program Office officials continuous stated their concerns about the jet’s software.

2.中国人直到今天都无法制造出一款可靠的发动机——在中国追上美国的五代机水平之前这要花上一些时间。我不对他们的发动机抱有希望（ws13）。
3.最大的问题是J31的航电是其最大的短板——雷达、红外搜索与跟踪、数据链特别是传感器融合。完善硬件的某个单项部分相对简单，但是将众多传感器数据和外部数据融合起来是极端困难的。甚至F22都没有把Link-16的数据和机载传感器的数据融合好，直到3.2A软件增量升级后才解决。这也是洛克希德在F35项目上进度落后的原因之一——也是为什么空军和联合管理办公室官员不断表达对于战机软件问题的关切的原因。



Having said the above.I will go with the J 31 for my Air force because: The J 31 doesn't need to be as good as the F 35 1 for 1. The Chinese just have to do enough damage to the U.S. military to make it too expensive to fight (that is why even Clinton/Trump will not start a war with Russia). Hypothetically, the F-35 might be able to generate a kill ratio of thirty-to-one today against the Chinese J-11 Flanker or J 10 Vigorous Dragon. But the F 35 might only generate a three-to-one kill ratio against the J-31 or J-20, which means attrition will take a serious toll on U.S. forces and it will be costly.

前面说了。我也愿意给我国家的空军使用J31，因为：J31不需要像F35那么好。中国人只要能够给美军造成足够的伤害以提高开战成本使其不能开战就行（这也是为什么克林顿/川普不会与俄罗斯开战的原因）。假设F35能够在与中国J11和J10的作战中造成30：1的交换比，但对上J31和J20可能就是3：1，这意味着对于美军来说是一笔巨大的消耗开销，成本高昂。

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Lin Xieyi, Aviation EnthusiastUpdated Jun 1, 2017
Originally Answered: How does China's J31 compare to the US's F35?





A2A. The second J-31 prototype has recently conducted its first flight, with a number of enhancements as compared to the first prototype.

空对空。第二架J31原型机近期完成了首飞，与第一架原型机相比有了许多改进。



From recent plane-spotter pictures, the J-31’s main weapons bay is larger than the F-35’s. By a rough estimate the main weapons bay is about a quarter of the total aircraft length. Assuming the plane is around 17.3 m long the bay should be around 4.3 m long, as compared to the F-35’s main weapons bay which is estimated at 3.9m for both F-35 A& C Variants have slightly larger bays).

根据近期的航拍照，J31的主武器仓比F35的要大。粗略估计，主武器仓占整机长的四分之一。如果整机长17.3m ,主武器仓就有大约4.3米，与F35A&C的3.9米相比，要略长。



This means it could carry VLAAMs such as the 4 X PL-21 with 150–200km range Or 6 X PL-12 AAMs. A large weapons bay also gives flexibility to mission profile and might be able to fit in a couple of air-to-ground or anti-ship missile.
The J-31 also has two engines compared to the F-35 single engine, giving it a better lift-drag ratio to compensate for smaller engine thrust than the F-35, and is more oriented toward air-to-air mission than the F-35 as it also has flatter fuselage as compare to F-35, hinting that its focus is in air defence rather than close-air-support or suppression-of-enemy-defences like what the F-35 is designed for.
The Chinese Navy had expressed interest in a carrier variant of the J-31. There is no urgent need for a VTOL version as it will be deployed on Type 002 aircraft carriers.[1]

这意味着它可以携带VLAAMs，像是四个射程150-200千米的pl21导弹，或者是六个PL12空空导弹。更大的武器仓同样给予任务剖面以灵活性，能够装载两个空对地或反舰导弹。
与F35的单引擎相比，J31双引擎带来更好的升阻比，补足了与F35相比推力更小的不足，比F35更加注重对空任务，比F35机身更加平滑，表明它更加注重空防而不是F35所注重的近距离空中支援或者是对敌人防御体系的压制。
中国海军对舰载型的J31表示出了兴趣。对于垂直起降没有迫切需求，可能在002型航母上才会部署。



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Nicholas Bhandari, studied Economics & Applied Mathematics at University of Southern California (2012)
Answered Dec 26, 2015
Originally Answered: How does China's J31 compare to the US's F35?
Most next gen Chinese weapons at this stage are a bit of a mystery. This is because not only are they not in mass production, but they have never been tested in combat situations.
The F-35, despite what many people say, is an excellent all purpose fighter. It's qualifications demanded that it be far superior to any current or planned fighter out there. While it lacks abilities as a dog fighter, this is a ridiculous critique. It isn't 1945, dog fights don't really happen. You win air superiority if you can identify and shoot down your enemy far before they know you exist. Only one plane on earth does this better than the F-35 which is the F-22.
The J-31 takes many aesthetic and technical elements from the F-35, but whether it can ever be mass produced, or even fight remains to be seen. The Chinese will undoubtedly develop a fighter that competes with the Americans in air superiority, the J-31 though is probably not that fighter. 

现阶段大多数的下一代中国武器还是有点神秘。这不仅是因为还没有大量生产，也是因为都没有在战斗环境中进行过测试。
不管多少人说，F35是一款出色的全用途战斗机。它的设计用途要求它要远远超越现有或者是计划中的任何战机。说她缺乏狗斗能力只是一种可笑的评论。这不是1945年了，狗斗的情况不会发生。如果你能先敌发现先敌开火你就能获得空中优势。地球上只有F22在这方面比F35要好。
J31从F35上获取了许多审美和技术元素，不过它是否能大规模生产或者实战还有待观察。中国人肯定会在制空方面发展一型战机与美国人竞争，虽然大概不是J31.

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James Chrisholm, Interested in humans
Answered Oct 29, 2016
No the J31 is not better or worse than the F35 until we can define their roles in actual combat and their abilities to fulfill that role.
Is it a copy of the F35? Clearly it is not and it is foolish thought. No sane military buys a plane off the shelve without twigging the innards to match their systems, doctrines and roles. Claims that things can and should be 1:1 copies are clearly simplistic. We are not dealing with toy models.

不，在我们从实战中弄清楚他们的作战角色以及完成作战任务的能力之前我们不能说J31比F35是好还是孬。
它是抄的F35吗？很明显不是，这种想法也很蠢。没有哪个有脑子的军队购买现成的战机不弄懂内里以和现在的系统、大纲以及作战定位进行整合就买的。声称可以1：1复制的言论都是把问题简单化了。我们所说的不是一款玩具模型。

All stealth designs have similar but not the same shape. They all look black. That's where similarity ends just like all cars have a chassis and 4 wheels. They look similar but aren't the same. It is evident that the propulsion system is different. I cannot even find thrust vectoring on the J31!
FRom the last J31 demo, the black paint came off. So obviously it wasn't painted with stealth paint. It was a stage prop.

所有的隐身设计都有相似但不同的外形。它们看起来都是黑的。相似性也就止于此了，就像所有的汽车都有一个底盘和四个轮子。它们看起来相似但却不相同。非常明显的是推时系统不同。在甚至在J31上没看到矢量推力。
上一次的J31演示中，有黑漆脱落。所以可以肯定没有隐身涂层，不过是一个舞台道具。

It has twin engined which are Russian designs probably from old Su 27 since Chinese don't have the engine technology yet. Black smoke came from the engines telling you that there is issue with the performance.
F35 is a VTOL design and hovers like a helicopter. It's an incredible piece of engineering hence the costs. The closest will be AV-8 or Harrier which F35 is not a copy of.

它配装了两台俄罗斯发动机，大概就是苏27上的那种，因为中国至今没有发动机技术。引擎喷出的黑烟表明肯定在性能上有问题。
F35具备垂直起降功能还可以像直升级那样盘旋。这是工程上的一个难以置信的部分，因此造成了高企的成本。最接近的就是AV-8和鹞式战机，F35不是它们的复制品。

The fire controls will be different since the F35, already operational will act as a forward air controller, guiding missiles and already using newer technology. Whilst J31 being a concept plane funded privately by Shenyang AC, still doesn't have a clear role. Its package will have to fit its Air Force or naval role and will probably use existing technology from the J10 or J15/16. J31 clearly not a copy since it doesn't fire American missiles or operate those weapon systems. It have to be compatible with Chinese or imported Russian systems. Even to overcome these software and hardware compatibility still poses significant engineering hurdles.
Avionics and electronics are not the same but can follow similar concept or have analogous capabilities. That we don't know since they are all top secret info.

火控系统会不同，因为F35早已实战化，作为前进空中管制机引导导弹并且早就用上了新技术。与此同时J31仍然只是由沈飞私下支持的概念机，仍然没有一个清楚的作战定位。它的组件必须适应它的空军或海军作战定位，也会使用现在的J10、J15/16上的技术。J31也明显不是一项复制品，因为它不发射美国导弹或者是使用相关的武器系统。它必须适用中国的或者进口自俄罗斯的系统。甚至要克服这些软硬件设施的兼容性也会带来重大的工程障碍。

For those who claim that J31 is a copy- if you are willing to force your eyes to see, they are SO DIFFERENT, that kind of bantering is just an alarmist, jingoistic propaganda designed con more money from tax payers to finance the more expensive, next gen aircraft.
Secondly it is a cheap psychological attack using same ruse from elementary school. If it's an exact copy, then the difference will be down to pilot training and doctrine. The kill ratio should be 1:1. Unless pilots are genetically engineered to fly better.

对于那些说J31是复制品的人——如果你们愿意睁开眼睛看看，会发现它们之间是如此的不同，这种玩笑不过是危言耸听的侵略主义宣传用来从纳税人那里抠更多的钱来资助更昂贵的下一代战机。
其次它是一个低成本的心理攻势，这是从小学开始人们就会用的把戏了。如果它是一种精确版本的复制品，那么差异将体现在飞行员的训练和作战大纲上。交换比为1：1，除非飞行员进行基因改造以飞得更好。

For those who think that J31 is great, it is only a CONCEPT aircraft. It is NOT OPERATIONAL. A stage prop can't fight. It's hard to imagine that knocking the F35 out of the sky. Ok, I know most of you watched Firefox starring Clint Eastwood. It is not a good reason for F35 owners to buy upgrade packs for the proposed threat. It's clearly marketeering.
The F35 is super expensive over engineered behemoth designed to maximize profits for tech companies since the buyers are willing, captured and sold on the idea.
The Chinese is doing the US a great sales service. They should profit share.

对于这些觉得J31是一款很棒的战机的人，要知道它只是一款概念机。没有进入作战。一件舞台道具是不能飞的。很难想象它把F35从天上打下来的情景。我知道你们都看过Clint Eastwood主演的火狐。口头上的威胁不是F35拥有者们购买升级包的好理由。很明显这是种市场营销。
F35这头工程巨兽超级昂贵，被设计用来使技术公司的利益最大化，因为购买者们愿意，并且上钩深陷其中。
中国给美国的销售做了神助攻。他们应当分得一杯羹。

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Herman Wong, modern East Asian history buff and naval enthusiast.
Answered Oct 27, 2016
The J-31 as we currently know it is not a serious contender to any other aircraft. As far as I know, the J-31 program is not even officially funded by the Chinese government. If you must categorize it, it’s a low-end fifth-generation aircraft, and the F-35 is anything but low-end. Realistically, it may only be as capable as a generation 4.5 fighter at best.
No, if you’re going to compare the fifth-generation fighters of China and the United States, it would be much more appropriate to consider the J-20 instead, a project which has received initial funding and is already in low rate initial production. It is arguably comparable with the F-22, and is almost certain to be adopted by the PLAAF as its standard air superiority fighter in the coming decade.
The J-31 has no such future.

我们目前知道J313并不是任何其他战机的竞争者。据我所知J31项目没有获得官方立项。如果你一定要给它分个类，它是一款低档五代机，而F35啥都是就是不是低档机。实际上，它最多就是一款4.5代机的性能。
如果你要比较中美的五代机，最好还是让J20来吧，J20项目伊始就获得了资金支持，早已进入小规模初始量产。可以和F22一较长短，可以确定会成为PLA空军未来十年所采用的空优战机。
J31可没有这样的前景。