哪个更父权制：中国北方还是中国南方？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



Posted byu/bhaozi Australia5 days ago
In many ways Northern Chinese (specifically Dongbei and Shandong) are considered to be more "macho." But does this translate to a more patriarchal society or not because the women are also considered more 'manly.'

在很多方面上，中国北方（男）人（特别是东北人和山东人）被认为更“大男人”，但这种特性是否会转化成一个更父权（男权）的社会，或者说不会，因为（中国北方）女人也被认为更“男子气概”。

On the other hand the South is considered to be more traditional. Wouldn't this also translate to a more patriarchal society? Everyone in the South are also more 'soft spoken' and they are probably more familiar to people in the West due to immigration demographics.

另一方面， 南方人被认为更传统。难道这也不会转化成一个更父权的社会吗？而且每个南方人说话都更“轻声细语”，且由于移民人口状况，他们更熟悉西方人。

-------------译者：penny12138-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

rogerwilco42 15 points·5 days ago
My observation while I was in China is that in most marriages the wife is the boss.

我在中国的时候，据我观察，大部分的婚姻中女性才是家里的老大。

takeitchillish 5 points·4 days ago·edited 4 days ago
That is just a charade. Most people put on a happy face in front of others and want people to believe that their marriages are perfect (which probably is true in other countries as well). Remember domestic violence is rampant in China. How can the wife be the boss if she get slapped at home? Around a third of all women are victims of domestic violence in China. It is common in China and I have personally seen it on the streets restaurants and so forth.

那只是在做戏。许多人在人前表现得很幸福，想要别人认为他们的婚姻是完美的（或许在其他国家也是这样）。记住，家庭暴力在中国是十分猖獗。一位妻子在承受着家庭暴力的同时又怎么成为家里的老大呢？在中国大约有⅓的女性遭受着家庭暴力。家庭暴力在中国很普遍，我曾经在大街上、饭店里亲眼看到这样的事情发生。

rogerwilco42 2 points·4 days ago
Domestic violence is always bad. Some Chinese husbands get slapped at home also.
Many Chinese told me that in public the husband is allowed to be the boss to "save face" but in the home the woman is the boss.

家庭暴力永远是件坏事。一些中国男性也会遭受家庭暴力。许多中国人告诉我，为了“保住面子”，男性在公共场合可以是老大，但是回到家后，女性才是老大。

takeitchillish 2 points·4 days ago
"Many Chinese told me that in public the husband is allowed to be the boss to "save face" but in the home the woman is the boss."
Saying that is just bs for saving face for the woman. China is a patriarchal society. Sure women also got a voice but it is still a man's world.

“为了‘保住面子’，男性在公共场合可以是老大，但是回到家后，女性才是老大”
那样说其实也是为了女性的面子。中国是一个父权社会。当然，女性也有一定的话语权，但仍然是男性的世界。

dropkickflutie 1 point·1 day ago
You sound like someone with your mind made up. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Women rule the family home and money in Chinese families. Western societies are much more patriarchal.

你说话就像没经过大脑一样。不根本不知道自己在说些什么。在中国，女性掌管整个家庭和钱财。西方社会才更加父权。

takeitchillish 1 point·1 day ago
Is that why there are no women in top politics in China? Where are the women in the politburo? You joking? China is a way more patriarchal society. Just look at rankingd where it is best to be a woman. China is nowhere near the top. All the top countries are western countries.

这就是为什么在中国，没有女性在政坛上任居高职吗？中国政府里的女性官员在哪里呢？你在开玩笑吗？中国社会才更加父权。看一下“在哪里做一个女性是最好”的排行榜中，中国距离前几名还隔得远呢。位列前几的国家全部都是西方国家。

-------------译者：penny12138-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

amberleung 1 point·4 days ago
Why I never heard and saw any case of domestic violence around me as Chinese. Domestic violence is huge serious and horrible thing in China. If husband did，I think the wife would divorce for sure. And now，lady as boss at home is normal in China as now Chinese lady is stronger than before，they have good education they earn good salary. They are independent. They dont depend on man. And tbe most important thing nowadays，it's difficult for Chinese guy to marry Chinese lady. Chinese guy need to have more good conditions.

作为一名中国人，为什么我从来没有听说也没有看到过家庭暴力发生呢？在中国，家庭暴力被视为是非常严重、非常可怕的事。如果男性有动手，我觉得女性是一定会离婚的。现在，中国的女性比以前更加强大、教育程度高、工资多，她们是家里的老大已成为一种普遍现象。她们自主独立，不依赖男性。最重要的是，如今中国男性想要结婚并不容易。中国男性需要有很好的条件才行。

takeitchillish 0 points·4 days ago
Dude I have seen it with my own eyes several times in China... No one ever did something to help the woman.

兄弟，在中国，我亲眼看到了好几次家庭暴力的发生.....没有一个人去帮助那被打的可怜女人。

pferdemann -1 points·4 days ago
[Remember domestic violence is rampant in China.]

[记住，家庭暴力在中国是十分猖獗。]

I don't remember ever hearing that. But I remember that violence against women is rampant around the world. Have you looked up the numbers for your own country? China certainly is no Iceland when it comes to gender equality but it's also not as bad as you make it sound.

我不记得我是否曾听说过中国的家庭暴力。但是，我记得对女性施加暴力在全世界都是很普遍的。你们有没有关注过你们自己国家相关的数据呢？在男女平等方面，中国当然比不上冰岛，但是它也没有你说得那么严重。

[That is just a charade. Most people put on a happy face in front of others and want people to believe that their marriages are perfect.]

[那只是在做戏。许多人在人前表现得很幸福，想要别人认为他们的婚姻是完美的。]

You don't seem to understand Chinese culture well. The charade that many put on in China is that the man is in charge. At least in the south dunno about Northern China. That's why the man always has to pay even if it's her money. Secretly she's in charge but they both lose face if it becomes too apparent.

你们似乎不了解中国文化。中国真正的骗局伪装是男人是家里的老大。至少在中国的南方是这样，北方我就不知道了。这就是为什么即使那是女性自己该付的钱，，也总是由男性来支付。女性一般是暗地里掌管家庭，但是一旦表现得太明显，就会让他们夫妻二人都没有面子。

takeitchillish 1 point·4 days ago
So you got time to google for an article about violence against women in the world but not got the time to google about domestic violence in China? Yeez. So I help you: "At the survey site in China 23 percent of men admitted to at least one rape"... “Researches in China interviewed more than 2000 men. Over half of respondents confessed to physically or sexually abusing their wives or girlfriends.” ... "Results of a gender-based violence study in China released on Thursday found that 52 percent of respondents have committed “an act of domestic violence” against their partners. " So there are many different surveys on this quoting numbers from 30% to 52%. I am from Northern Europe and for me that is domestic violence going rampant. Sure China is heaven for women compared to Muslim countries and India but I just compare it with how it is back in Northern and Western Europe.

所以，你有时间在网上查关于全世界的女性遭受家庭暴力的情况，却没有时间在网上查一下在中国发生的家庭暴力吗？好，那我帮你们整理一下：“根据中国一网站调查，23%的男性承认至少有过一次强奸女性”...“对超过2000名中国男性的研究表明，超过一半的人承认在精神上或者性方面上强迫过自己的妻子或女朋友。”...“星期四发表的一篇关于中国家庭暴力的研究指出，52%的研究对象承认对自己的另一半有过家庭暴力行为。”因此，有许多关于此的数据，大多在30%-52%之间。我来自北欧，对于我而言，这些数据表明中国的家庭暴力十分普遍。当然，与穆斯林国家和印度相比，中国的女性是幸福的，但是和北欧以及西欧相比，中国就差太远了。

-------------译者：penny12138-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

pferdemann 2 points·3 days ago
You didn't lix your source. With stats like this it's especially important to see their methodology. Statistics on domestic violence can vary wildly depending on how the survey is done and what they count as abuse. That itsn't to say that I doubt China has a problem with domestic violence. I just wanted you to understand that this is a global problem. I also happen to be from Europe btw.
One in four women in the UK experiences domestic violence.

你没有附上你数据的链接来源。统计这些数据时使用的方法论也是非常重要的。由于调查不同以及暴力的不同定义，会造成家庭暴力的数据不一样。这并不是说我不相信中国存在家庭暴力的问题。我只是希望你们能够明白，家庭暴力是一个全球性的问题。顺便说一下，碰巧我也来自欧洲。在英国，四名女性中就有一人遭受过家庭暴力。

It's funny you mention you're from Northern Europe which is famous for the "Nordic paradox". Also have a look at this. This isn't to say that Scandinavia is unsafe for women but just to show you how skewed statistics can be.

你说你来自北欧，真的是非常搞笑了，北欧就是以”北欧悖论”出名的。请看一下这个吧（链接为：Sweden stands out in domestic violence study瑞典在家庭暴力研究中“脱颖而出”）。这并不是说斯堪的纳维亚半岛对女性来说是不安全的，只是说这些数据是不准确的。



In my experience after having lived in China for a long time it's one of the safer places in the world for women. Again that still means abuse is rampant like it is in other countries. Male on female violence is a global issue. Yes the Nordics are safer than China but it's a bit unfair to compare China to the most socially progressive countries in the world imo. Compared to other 2nd world places like Russia Brazil India aso the situation in China is A LOT better.

在中国居住了很久以后，个人觉得女性在中国是比较安全的。再次说明，这里和其他国家一样暴力行为依然普遍。男性对女性的暴行是一个全球性问题。不错，北欧比中国更加安全，但是在我看来，将中国与世界上发达国家相比是不公平的。与其它像俄罗斯、巴西和印度等第二世界国家相比，中国好太多了！

takeitchillish 0 points·3 days ago
Sweden is unsafe for women because of Muslims from Africa and middle East. The other countries are better because fewer of those people.

由于来自非洲和中东的穆斯林群体，所以女性在瑞典并不安全。其他国家因为穆斯林更少，所以女性更加安全。

pferdemann 2 points·3 days ago
Did you even read the lixs? All Nordics have a higher reported rate than the EU average. The one with the lowest reported rate is Bulgaria which has a large Muslim population of over 10% larger than any of the Nordics.

你有没有去看那些链接？所有北欧国家的报道率都高于欧洲平均水平。其中报道率最低的是保加利亚，其穆斯林人口比例比任何北欧国家都高10%。

takeitchillish 0 points·3 days ago
That is because how Nordic countries count what is rape and how the statistics are produced. A man raping his wife 1000 times will be counted as 1000 individual rape cases. That is not how other countries count. Women are also more prone to report in Nordic countries compared to say Bulgaria. Just looking at reporter cases is not a fair comparison.

这是因为北欧国家统计强奸和收集数据的方式所导致的。一个男人强奸他的妻子1000次，就会被算作是1000次强奸案。其他国家不会这样统计。与保加利亚相比，北欧国家的女性也倾向于站出报道此类案件。仅比较被报道案件数量是不公平的。

-------------译者：penny12138-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

pferdemann 2 points·3 days ago
Aha! Now we're getting somewhere.
Now you just need to apply this newfound knowledge that the statistics can be skewed to foreign countries like China and not only your own. And maybe we'll even have some kind of insight today.

啊哈！现在我们终于有一些进展了。现在你只需知道，不仅是你自己的国家，对中国等其他国家一样，统计数据是会被编造有失偏颇的。那么或许我们今天都能明白一些东西。

takeitchillish 0 points·3 days ago
No because it is not that easy to compare crime statistics as different countries count crime differently. Afghanistan got almost no rapes. Do you think that no women are being raped there? No that is because women do not go to the police if they get raped. Especially when it comes to rape the percentage of women that will go to the police will differ huge between different countries.

不，由于各个国家统计犯罪方式不同，因此比较不同国家的犯罪数据绝非易事。阿富汗强奸案件数据几乎为零。那你觉得阿富汗没发生强奸案吗？不是的，那是因为阿富汗妇女被强奸了也不会报案。尤其是强奸案，在不同国家，女性会报案的比例也大不相同。

dtlv5813 1 point·4 days ago
Market force at work. Good old supply and demand. Gender imbalance means that females in China have more leverage in relationships.

市场力量起着作用，维持良好的供求关系。性别比例失衡意味着中国的女性在恋爱关系或夫妻关系中影响力更大。

amberleung  1 point·4 days ago
I think it depends on the economic of place? I am from Guangdong south China. My place is quite open minded. Even my father will cook for us and clean house too. But in some traditional Chinese mind is man should in charge the family. Like man should handle the bill of one family. Man should take care their family when big things happen. Man should be more responsibility in the family. Man should handle the difficult things etc. Is this called patriarchal?

我觉得这取决于当地的经济情况。我来自中国南方——广东。这个地方思想是非常开明的，即使我父亲也会做饭和打扫卫生。但是在中国的传统思想中，男人应该掌管整个家庭。例如，男人应该支付家里的账单；男人应该在发生大事时照顾整个家庭；男人应肩负更多的家庭责任；男人应该处理难事，等等。这就是父权制吗？

sanjuneripo 1 point·2 days ago
splitting hairs
they're all super patriachal and backwards

太钻牛角尖了。他们都非常的父权制和落后。

JayTeeLaramie 1 point·4 days ago·edited 4 days ago
How about which area allows men to have balls and be direct? I think the answer is neither whether northern or southern or in any face culture.
Therfore patriarchy shmatriarchy.

哪个地区的男人是有胆量又直率的呢？我觉得不论是南方还是北方或者在任何面子文化中都不存在这样的男人。
因此，父权的母权制。

In fact China is extremely gynocentric and paradoxically quite misogynistic at the very same time.
Meaning men are required to be more indirect and passive-aggressive in their pursuits which a reversal of masculine behavior.

事实上，中国强调女性以女性为中心，但同时又歧视厌恶女性。这意味着，在男性的成长中，他们必须更加委婉和被动，这与男子气概是相反的。

-------------译者：独孤风云--审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

lacraquotte France -2 points·5 days ago
North is much more patriarchal. In the south you even have totally matriarchal tribes like the Mosuo.

北方更加父权制。在南方，甚至有像摩梭人一样的完全母系部落。
（译注：摩梭人，元代南征蒙古军人的后裔，生活在云南省西北与四川省交界的泸沽湖畔，是中国唯一仍存在的母系氏族社会。）

Bonzwazzle Australia 8 points·4 days ago
it's sad the Chinese Gov just made the Mosuo a tourist attraction for horny men instead of actually giving the culture the respect it deserves

令人伤心的是，中国政府只是把摩梭人变成吸引好色男人的旅游景点，而不是真正给予这文化其应得的尊重。

hapigood -2 points·5 days ago
The opposite way around.

情况完全相反。

bhaozi Australia 4 points·5 days ago
The opposite way around what?

你是说什么完全相反？

hapigood -1 points·5 days ago
[what?]
Reading comprehension?
Family hierarchy is overreactingly important for southerners while for the northeast at least it is a thing but much less formally enforced.

[什么完全相反？]
阅读理解能力不过关吧？家庭等级制度对南方人来说是非常重要的，而对东北地区的人来说，这种制度至少是件事儿，但“执行”力度没那么高。

Tinystardrops 0 points·4 days ago
Do you guys know Fujian has a tradition to kill female babies over the past decades? I grew in the north and I feel like the north is better. And yea Shandong is just an extreme macho place. It’s hard to divide every providence into “North” and “South”.

你们知道福建在过去几十年里有杀死女婴的传统吗？ 我在北方长大，我觉得北方更好。 而山东不过是个极度大男子主义的地方。这很难把每个省简单划分为“南方”或者“北方”。

takeitchillish 2 points·4 days ago
Yes Fujian is famous for 重男轻女. I would say Sichuan is pretty good compared to Fujian and Dongbei.

是的，福建以重男轻女而闻名。 我想说与福建和东北相比，四川相当不错。

pferdemann 2 points·4 days ago
This. Fujian is a pretty horrible example for "the South". They seem super traditional and patriarchal over there. Society in Sichuan Guangxi Yunnan and the general South West is much more equal in terms of gender.

这个嘛。 福建是“南方”的一个非常可怕的例子。 他们那里超级传统和父权制。 四川、广西、云南和西南部的地区在性别方面更加平等。